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help!!! where do i get alcohol prep pads NOW?
- Thread starter DaMan
- Start date
SofaGeorge
New member
icelandic said:
No. you would be shocked if you found out how nonexistent the effect of running an alcohol swab across skin really was. You guys need to read up a little bit on swabs... not alcohol rinses. They aren't remotely the same thing.
Swabbing with alcohol pads does virtually nothing.
You guys are somehow under the impression that alcohol is an instant kill for bugs and bacteria. It isn't.
TraxZBT
New member
SofaGeorge said:
Doesn't kill bacteria, merely moves it out of the way. My Med Professor reviewed this a couple of times. Also, saying that swabbing does nothing is a statement that could leave alot of people with infections. Just because you got lucky, doesn't mean everyone else will.
Would you inject from a vial that got dropped on the floor with mud on it or God knows what else?
SofaGeorge
New member
TraxZBT said:
Close... I once dropped a loaded syringe on the floor of a Tijuana bathroom and picked it up and used it.
I had 2 cc's of Steris deca in there and I just couldn't see wasting it.
Have you ever had to endure a 6 hour lab dedicated soley to proper hand disinfectant procedure? I've done cell culture tests on several common methods of sterilization and I can tell you that alcohol is effective against SOME types of bacteria. I'm talking about a 70 % isopropyl solution. No it is not a panacea which will rid all the skin of all bacteria. It is however a very good solvent and is very effective against vegetative cell bacteria and microbes. Because of it its strong solvent action it is frequntly used before iodine application in a surgical setting. Like any alcohol, it is not effective against bacterial spores and viruses. In today's cost-conscious hospital setting, no chemical or procedure is done simply for shits and giggles. The fact remains that the application of isopropyl alcohol in combination with a topical iodine solution is the most effective antibacterial action you can take short of blasting your skin with UV radiation. I'm not trying to start a battle over this, but your dismissal of isopropyl alcohol may not have had any negative effects on your own health, but it is not something I would reccomend everyone to try.
benchpressr23
New member
Whether it works or not who gives a shit. I use it just for peace of mind. I guess ignorance truly is bliss sometimes.
SofaGeorge
New member
icelandic said:
And again I point out... we are talking alcohol wipes... not disinfecting the skin with 70% isopropyl solution and iodine.
If you think alcohol wipes are so effective... use one on your hands and then operate.
Rubbing a tiny swab of alcohol across your skin before you stab in a needle doesn't do jack shit.
Please reference one site on Medlars or Medline that praises efficacy of a brief alcohol swab prior to giving an injection for disinfecting the surface area. You will find that it is highly inefective... to the point of being a joke. You can find PLENTY of references to alcohol being used to kill bugs and germs. Bleach kills bugs and germs too. So does Non11 and 9. You can soak plenty of bug in alcohol and kill them. That doesn't have much to do with rubbing a small pad across the skin for a second or two.
Do you want to use alcohol swabs to disinfect the skin prior to injection? Sure... it can be done. It will take you about 10 minutes. Do you know anyone who swabs more then a wipe or two?
Well, let's see here although i find this subject to be a no-brainer, you are right, it is hard to find a study using the word "brief", there are multitudes of studies that use the word prep and wash wherein ALL have determined alcohol as discussed was effective. Every medical text and nursing text that I could locate refers to "preping" the injection site with alcohol. I mean, at what point is this just a given, are all these people blowing it out their butts? In the case of prevention of infection, it would seem to me that one should err on the side of safety and there is enough material out there to, if not prove, at least introduce a reasonable certainty that you are better of to swab than not to swab! I think advising members at large to skip the alcohol prep and just inject is just plain negligent! Oh, and i learned something here, as a poster above pointed out, it seems that 70% alcohol is more effective than 95%! Go figure. Just to reiterate, there is NO question that isopropyl alcohol is an effective disinfectant, if youwant to be safer, just rub longer! 
============================================
Referencing the full text we see that the site was preped by swabing briefly three times and allowed to dry.
J Clin Microbiol 2002 May;40(5):1660-5 Related Articles, Links
Comparison of four antiseptic preparations for skin in the prevention of contamination of percutaneously drawn blood cultures: a randomized trial.
Calfee DP, Farr BM.
Department of Medicine, University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, VA 22908, USA.
A number of skin antiseptics have been used to prevent the contamination of blood cultures, but the comparative efficacies of these agents have not been extensively evaluated. We therefore sought to compare the efficacy of four skin antiseptics in preventing blood culture contamination in a randomized, crossover, investigator-blinded study conducted in an emergency department and the inpatient wards of a university hospital. The patient group included all patients from whom blood samples were obtained percutaneously for culture. Skin antisepsis was performed with 10% povidone-iodine, 70% isopropyl alcohol, tincture of iodine, or povidone-iodine with 70% ethyl alcohol (i.e., Persist). The blood culture contamination rate associated with each antiseptic was then determined. A total of 333 (2.62%) of 12,692 blood cultures were contaminated during the study period compared to 413 (3.21%) of 12,859 blood cultures obtained during the previous 12-month period (relative risk = 0.82; 95% confidence interval, 0.71 to 0.94; P = 0.006). During the study, the contamination rates were determined to be 2.93% with povidone-iodine, 2.58% with tincture of iodine, 2.50% with isopropyl alcohol, and 2.46% with Persist (P = 0.62). We detected no significant differences in the blood culture contamination rates among these four antiseptics, although there was some evidence suggesting greater efficacy among the alcohol-containing antiseptics. Among the evaluated antiseptics, isopropyl alcohol may be the optimal antiseptic for use prior to obtaining blood for culture, given its convenience, low cost, and tolerability.
=============================
LDA J 1997 Fall;56(3):16-8 Related Articles, Links
Efficacy of topical disinfectants.
Oeschger MP, Hubar JS, Cresson RJ.
Department of Microbiology, Immunology and Parasitology, Louisiana State University Medical Center, New Orleans 70119, USA.
A comparison of bactericidal activity of two surface disinfectants showed that both were highly effective. The glutaraldehyde-based disinfectant showed higher efficacy on roughed surfaces than the alcohol-based disinfectant. The study used a novel, and generally applicable, method to evaluate the surface killing potential of disinfectants
===============
http://nursing.about.com/c/ht/01/08/How_Administer_Intradermal_Injection0997231775.htm
How to Administer an Intradermal Injection
From your Nursing Guide
"....5. Cleanse area with an alcohol swab, wiping with firm pressure from injection site outward in a circular motion. Allow skin to dry.
================
http://www.engenderhealth.org/ip/aseptic/at4.html
Introduction to aseptic procedures:
Client prep for clinical procedures
"...Before giving an injection:
Wipe the client's skin at the intended injection site with an antiseptic solution to minimize the number of microorganisms and reduce the risk of infection.
If there is visible dirt, wash the injection site with soap and water.
Using a fresh swab, wipe the site with an antiseptic, wiping in a circular motion from the center outward.
If alcohol is used, allow the alcohol to dry in order for maximum effectiveness in reducing microorganisms. "
=========================
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cach...t14.pdf+alcohol+prep+injection&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Procedure for Insulin Administration by Injection
"...10. Prop syringe on the cap in a "clean field" Select the site to be used and prep with alcohol and let dry..."
==============
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cach...ule.pdf+alcohol+prep+injection&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
State f Maine, EMT Training Module
"...4. Prepare the site with an alcohol prep"
=============
http://www.medtrng.com/blackboard/administer_intra.htm
Excerpt from an army Medic Training manual
Administer Intra-muscular, Subcutaneous and Intra-dermal Injections
"...(10) Cleanse the injection site with an alcohol prep pad, beginning in the center of the site and with a circular motion, clean outward approximately 3 inches"
===============
Administer Intra-muscular, Subcutaneous and Intra-dermal Injections
Wilderness Emergency Medical Training Site
"... 6: alcohol prep pads, in foil"
===========
============================================
Referencing the full text we see that the site was preped by swabing briefly three times and allowed to dry.
J Clin Microbiol 2002 May;40(5):1660-5 Related Articles, Links
Comparison of four antiseptic preparations for skin in the prevention of contamination of percutaneously drawn blood cultures: a randomized trial.
Calfee DP, Farr BM.
Department of Medicine, University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, VA 22908, USA.
A number of skin antiseptics have been used to prevent the contamination of blood cultures, but the comparative efficacies of these agents have not been extensively evaluated. We therefore sought to compare the efficacy of four skin antiseptics in preventing blood culture contamination in a randomized, crossover, investigator-blinded study conducted in an emergency department and the inpatient wards of a university hospital. The patient group included all patients from whom blood samples were obtained percutaneously for culture. Skin antisepsis was performed with 10% povidone-iodine, 70% isopropyl alcohol, tincture of iodine, or povidone-iodine with 70% ethyl alcohol (i.e., Persist). The blood culture contamination rate associated with each antiseptic was then determined. A total of 333 (2.62%) of 12,692 blood cultures were contaminated during the study period compared to 413 (3.21%) of 12,859 blood cultures obtained during the previous 12-month period (relative risk = 0.82; 95% confidence interval, 0.71 to 0.94; P = 0.006). During the study, the contamination rates were determined to be 2.93% with povidone-iodine, 2.58% with tincture of iodine, 2.50% with isopropyl alcohol, and 2.46% with Persist (P = 0.62). We detected no significant differences in the blood culture contamination rates among these four antiseptics, although there was some evidence suggesting greater efficacy among the alcohol-containing antiseptics. Among the evaluated antiseptics, isopropyl alcohol may be the optimal antiseptic for use prior to obtaining blood for culture, given its convenience, low cost, and tolerability.
=============================
LDA J 1997 Fall;56(3):16-8 Related Articles, Links
Efficacy of topical disinfectants.
Oeschger MP, Hubar JS, Cresson RJ.
Department of Microbiology, Immunology and Parasitology, Louisiana State University Medical Center, New Orleans 70119, USA.
A comparison of bactericidal activity of two surface disinfectants showed that both were highly effective. The glutaraldehyde-based disinfectant showed higher efficacy on roughed surfaces than the alcohol-based disinfectant. The study used a novel, and generally applicable, method to evaluate the surface killing potential of disinfectants
===============
http://nursing.about.com/c/ht/01/08/How_Administer_Intradermal_Injection0997231775.htm
How to Administer an Intradermal Injection
From your Nursing Guide
"....5. Cleanse area with an alcohol swab, wiping with firm pressure from injection site outward in a circular motion. Allow skin to dry.
================
http://www.engenderhealth.org/ip/aseptic/at4.html
Introduction to aseptic procedures:
Client prep for clinical procedures
"...Before giving an injection:
Wipe the client's skin at the intended injection site with an antiseptic solution to minimize the number of microorganisms and reduce the risk of infection.
If there is visible dirt, wash the injection site with soap and water.
Using a fresh swab, wipe the site with an antiseptic, wiping in a circular motion from the center outward.
If alcohol is used, allow the alcohol to dry in order for maximum effectiveness in reducing microorganisms. "
=========================
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cach...t14.pdf+alcohol+prep+injection&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Procedure for Insulin Administration by Injection
"...10. Prop syringe on the cap in a "clean field" Select the site to be used and prep with alcohol and let dry..."
==============
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cach...ule.pdf+alcohol+prep+injection&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
State f Maine, EMT Training Module
"...4. Prepare the site with an alcohol prep"
=============
http://www.medtrng.com/blackboard/administer_intra.htm
Excerpt from an army Medic Training manual
Administer Intra-muscular, Subcutaneous and Intra-dermal Injections
"...(10) Cleanse the injection site with an alcohol prep pad, beginning in the center of the site and with a circular motion, clean outward approximately 3 inches"
===============
Administer Intra-muscular, Subcutaneous and Intra-dermal Injections
Wilderness Emergency Medical Training Site
"... 6: alcohol prep pads, in foil"
===========
SofaGeorge said:
Sofa: One last thing, I did try your advice and looked for some evidence on line that using an alcohol swab to prep an injection site had no effect but did not have any luck. Since you are able to find these studies hence your advice, help a guy out here and post a few, thanks.
jb
jb
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