Good Price for 1-AD?

[Nutri-Wrestler]

I'm willing to bet there aren't a lot of Body-For-Life fans around here, however, I believe their transformations are real, and non-steroidal (too many of them, and I've met a lot of these people in real life). That having been said.

I don't see 1-AD Numbers that BLOW AWAY BFL numbers. (I'm referring to the numbers I've read in forums. ) In fact, they're about the same. And no one doing BFL is taking 1-AD. This seems to lend heavy evidence toward the placebo effect.

I have never taken 1-AD. I've read and read and read and... ok, you get the point. Everyone seems to say it works. But I haven't heard anyone say Body for Life doesN'T work. I'm almost ready to buy some of this 1-AD stuff, load it up at about a GRAM a day for 2 weeks, and see what I get.

At this point, the only REAL, PROVEN legal supplement I can think of to put on muscle size/strength is creatine.

I'm a skeptic. I'm not convinced either way. I am open-minded. I'd like to see studies. I just thought I'd give everyone something to think about.
-B

ANd there is nothing wrong with your opinion. You are open minded which shows you do have intelligence.

Hey, 17lbs. in 6 weeks isnt bad. Yeah, body for life is a good program. But not everyone responds to the body for life program as well as others. Actually, people on body for life do use Ph's. A guy that i know who does it used some 19nor (well, a lot of 19nor) and put on good size. he also used Mag-10. A kid i know who also did body for life popped every kinda andro there is (he wasnt too bright).

 

[Dante B.]

Quite a difference there is, between a neophyte embarking upon a new program such as Body For Life with minimal experience regarding training and dieting, finding company in a new body (that is, perhaps gaining 15 pounds of muscle), and an experienced trainer come time after training, gaining 15 pounds.

Such is the placebo. Numbers lie, as they are superficial. 15 pounds in not 15 pounds, when the considerations of experience that lie under them are not equal. You would be hard pressed to find many experienced trainers who may have come upon a plateau, taking upon the BFL program; it is not that uncommon, to find veterans using 1AD.

Such is the consideration.

I honestly believe that if someone could make an effective product, they would. But they can't. And if they did, it would never be allowed on the market

ECA does not exist, I assume. Neither does Creatine, I further gather as well.

 

[Dante B.]

And to Nelson:

You posit your argument that the veils deception find themselves only in the selling of products. How do you forget, that Machiavellian veils, also find themselves in the offering of "information" by crusaders. If you wish to discount Pat Arnold and others such like him, then using that logic (since you wish to wax-philosophical), I can dismiss you, since you are selling information (and that is publicity, as the 'crusader' sells an image---such is his product).

Your logic works against you. However I assume that you are simply wrong, although others such as like you (who write and offer information) may do so with the intent to merely decieve and make money in such the process. Thus, I don't lump you in with 'everyone', since that bypasses the process of critical thought, which is what you are doing by stating (in effect) 'people lie, in order to become rich, one must lie, thus anyone who makes money is a liar'.

Define "rich". And money is not the determining factor of deciet, either. Poor men lie just as well. As with regard to the "I have been around" argument (since we wish to wax-philosophical)--many men have seen years of war, and will never undestand any rational conception of it. Some men live till eighty, and are none the more wise for it. They are "experienced" livers.

If this seems tangential, it is only for the fact that you should spend less time the crusader, and more time the thinker. If someone sees the smoke of your statements, they can use your accusations against you, too.

 

[bebaumax]

ANd there is nothing wrong with your opinion. You are open minded which shows you do have intelligence.

Hey, 17lbs. in 6 weeks isnt bad. Yeah, body for life is a good program. But not everyone responds to the body for life program as well as others. Actually, people on body for life do use Ph's. A guy that i know who does it used some 19nor (well, a lot of 19nor) and put on good size. he also used Mag-10. A kid i know who also did body for life popped every kinda andro there is (he wasnt too bright).

I agree, no single substance/programs produces results for every single person. I also know that many people, though, considered "training veterans" have had tremendous results with BFL. Simply because it provided them focus. I've met, personally, hundred of people who consider themselves "serious veterans" that don't make gains at all.

Think about it. How many regulars do you see at your gym, day in, and day out, that NEVER make a change at all? That's because the vast majority of people, starting off, or there for 15 years, have no idea WHAT they're doing, WHY they're doing it, or anything. The key missing ingredient is INTENSITY. I think many people are discovering this intensity via 1-AD. I could be wrong.

I've tried many PH's, they haven't done a thing. I think I'll try 1-AD at some point, I just need to find a super-cheap price so I can get enough for a gram a day for 4 weeks, every day on.

I do have a belief on placebo (or any other) effect, though. That is, if it works for you, please do not EVER let someone talk you out of it. To me it's like religion, HMB, or 'Energy Water'. If you feel better about yourself because of it, and you are a more fulfilled person, why would I EVER want to prove to you that it is false? If it's not hurting anyone else, and it's helping you, PLEASE, continue to believe in what you believe. I cannot imagine why someone would want to take something as powerful as a positive mindset away from another, just to prove their scientific point (and I'm pretty damn scientific).

Thanks for your comments, and I will continue to read the results posted here. If anyone who is VER SERIOUS about training, is alreay sub-10% BF, and gets day-of numbers posted and then shows us their cycle numbers, I'd LOVE to see that. I will do this if/when I get around to trying 1-AD.

-B

 

[1fast400]

Why does everyone want to take a gram of 1-AD. If people would have done the reading they claim to have done, they would know that 600mg can get you similar results as 900mg. The difference is over the course of 20 days you'll need 1 less bottle.

 

[bebaumax]

Why does everyone want to take a gram of 1-AD. If people would have done the reading they claim to have done, they would know that 600mg can get you similar results as 900mg. The difference is over the course of 20 days you'll need 1 less bottle.

If I do this, I want there to be no doubt/mistake whether or not the stuff is working. I like to start small and work down.. call me nuts. I'm not worried about side-effects, so it's not a big deal to me. I appreciate your wisdom, and if a gram works, then I'll probably try 600mg next, as that's what you're recommending, and you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things from what I've read here.
-B

 

[Nelson Montana]

You hit the nail on the head B! No one wants to believe their efforts have been in vain and no one who achieved success while using 1-AD (or anything else) wants to abandon the belief that they found "the answer."

To Dante: I see your point but your reflections are a bit convoluted. (Have you been reading Ayn Rand?) How can discrediting something work to my financial advantage? If you read the book you'll see that I endorse several supplements, and I don't make ONE DIME on the sale of any of them! So what advantage is it to say that I found some supplements inneffective?

Your extrapolation that if "liars gets rich, than all people who are rich are liars" is comparable to saying that "if all pedophiles are adults therfore all adults are pedophiles." It's off base, specious and silly.

Look at the people who have been the most vocal about this issue -- the guy who is obviously proud that he "developed" the product, and a guy who sells PH's through a website. WHAT A SHOCK! Meanwhile, legends such as Dave Draper and Dennis Weis have praised my book. People with REAL degrees, such as Dr. Eric Serrano advise people to read it. I guess it can't suck that bad. But hey, if a salesmans opinion is worth more to you, who am I to argue?

I have nothing to prove. No subterfuge. No ulterior motive. Nothing else to sell. I only set out to write a book that I thought a lot of people would enjoy and hopefully learn something from. It isn't a "feel good" "live your dreams" type of book and I know that's what a lot of people want.

You may agree with some things. You may disagree with some things. That's fine. But if you get something out of it, then it's worth it.

 

[Dante B.]

Did I say that all rich men are liars, or was I using your logic? It was the latter. Reread everything you posted, and then read my retort. That is your logic, in assuming that 'some people in this industry are getting rich', using that against Pat Arnold.

You wrote a book. "Uncovering" myths turns the gears of the financial machine, too. That is a product---"truth".

You missed my point. Instead of discounting Pat directly, you used the fact that he sells products, as the tool of dismissal. And, you are a salesmen, just as anyone who sells a given product. A person with a "degree", who offers his science for money, is selling his product.

Such is not the issue, my friend. You simply wish to discount Pat and 1Fast for the fact that they are selling products (as though that action were indicative of duplicity); everyone is selling something.

And in terms of those who are most vociferous, did you even stop to think that perhaps they care about what they do, and perhaps they are speaking the truth as so they see it? And if wrong, it is in honesty? But no, you are the silent spectator, who offers nothing.

And as for "I have nothing to sell", again you do. Your book. Now, assuming that you believe in it, I shall assume that anyone that wished to discount you, should state far more beyond that fact that "this guy is selling his book". And to such the same, you should do as much, when seeking to discredit someone, since "selling" an item or a service is not the tale of deceit.

"Discredits" do work to one's advantage, as people wish to seek upon the "truth". And by offering a book which tells such a tale, such is the potential profit. But again, you missed my point. I am not accusing you of anything, other than using faulty logic to accuse others. I simply am showing you that your sword can be wielded just as well against you.

 

[1fast400]

Ahhh Dante Dante Dante.......


I always enjoy your post. There is one fault in your thinking. You assume that Nelson will understand your post. This is someone who doesn't want to be confused with science or facts. Any line of reasoning that shows him to be wrong or in error will be discredited with his own moronic logic. He has convinced himself in his own mind that he is correct and can not be at fault. The tunnel vision syndrome seen in many other aspects of life has fallen upon him. We can only hope the consumer will go out and educate themselves, rather than listen to the worthless babble that flows from the keyboard of Mr. Montana. It makes me wonder if the same tunnel vision was used when writing his book.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Dante: You DEFINITELY read Ayn Rand! Your manner of speaking is so "Galtian", so "Roarky." At least it shows you've got something on the ball, but you, like Ayn, need to lighten up.

Let's put it in simple terms. My experience with PH's based on research, personal experience, and the closely monitored experience of others is that the negatives outweigh the positives. I believe Pat is sincere in his belefs about 1AD, just as he was with androsteine and androstendiol and nor androstene and 4 AD and cyclodextrins and everything else that didn't work.

Sure, I'm looking to sell my book. But if someone doesn't like it, it doesn't raise their estrogen levels.

1fast400: I may not have the scientific knowledge of a guy with the prestigious credentials of owning a website that sells prohormones, but I know a few things. At any rate. I'm done. Say what you will. Don't buy the book.

If anyone has any questions, they can contact me via personal mail and I'll be happy to offer a response. Peace.