Form question on Squat and DL

[Maks]

Probably I should post a vid, but a) you will laugh, b), I already get enough strange looks in my gym.

Squat:
When it gets heavy (well, for me that is), I tend to stick at parallel on the way up. Then my body starts to compensate by leaning more forward so the hips can rise again and the knee angle can open up. That way I do get the weight up, but I don't think that it is a good idea to transfer the work to the back. It's squatting, after all. Probably the quads are the weak point here.
Any ideas how I can stop that ? Esp. which exercises would help me ?

Deadlift:
Again, with weight that is close to my max I get the feeling that the upper back is not up for the task and starts to round. My lower back is fine. Does anyone know a good exercise for the upper M. erector spinae ? Or has an idea how to improve that ?

Thanks. If that sounds like gibberish, I have the excuse that I haven't slept at night for 10 days now and it is freaking 38°C in-and outside atm.

 

[Illuminati]

Probably I should post a vid, but a) you will laugh, b), I already get enough strange looks in my gym.

Squat:
When it gets heavy (well, for me that is), I tend to stick at parallel on the way up. Then my body starts to compensate by leaning more forward so the hips can rise again and the knee angle can open up. That way I do get the weight up, but I don't think that it is a good idea to transfer the work to the back. It's squatting, after all. Probably the quads are the weak point here.
Any ideas how I can stop that ? Esp. which exercises would help me ?

Deadlift:
Again, with weight that is close to my max I get the feeling that the upper back is not up for the task and starts to round. My lower back is fine. Does anyone know a good exercise for the upper M. erector spinae ? Or has an idea how to improve that ?

Thanks. If that sounds like gibberish, I have the excuse that I haven't slept at night for 10 days now and it is freaking 38°C in-and outside atm.

if your upper back is rounding then you are fine. its your lower back that you dont want to round. that is when you will get hurt.

for your squatting: i would really have to see a video. sounds like you are not keeping your back arched, and this is what is causing your to fall forward. could also be your shoes. if you are wearing a cross trainer type of shoe, the bottom of the shoe is curved, and if your weight shifts forward slightly, then it will cause you to rock forward.

 

[petpre61]

cant upper back roundings lead to injuries just as well/bad (less likely but still)?

 

[Protobuilder]

This may help. It's an article entitled, "Falling Forward in the Squat."

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/falling_forward.htm

One thing that helped me (although I still have some trouble from time to time) is going barefoot and consciously driving w/ the heels. If your problem is caused by you shifting the weight forward, you might try lifting your toes up. Actually curl them up like you're trying to point them toward the ceiling. It'll force you to keep the weight back on the foot.

A few other things: Are your glutes really working through the lift? If not, you may be trying to really pull your quads into the movement even more by leaning forward. You can help this by consciously pushing your knees out as you descend and as you come up. Also, I’ve found (thanks AB!) that doing a few glute bridges before I start squatting really helps. Basically, do some light pure glute work before you start squatting to get them warmed up and firing. I’m calling glute bridges where you lay on your back, knees bent like in the sit-up position, then you use your glutes & lower back and just arch your hips off the floor and hold briefly and repeat. Great for getting the glutes firing. Makes a real difference for me and takes all of 30 seconds.

edit: I mention glute firing b/c it seems that a lot of "non-athletes" (that'd be me, LoL) tend to not use their glutes very well so there's kind of a neurological inhibition thing going on or just a motor learning process where you learn to use them. I don't know what causes it, but it seems to be a real problem.

 

[Illuminati]

cant upper back roundings lead to injuries just as well/bad (less likely but still)?

just about anything that you do can lead to injuries. i dont think that I have ever heard of anyone getting injured from their upper back rounding.

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

just about anything that you do can lead to injuries. i dont think that I have ever heard of anyone getting injured from their upper back rounding.

I've seen a lot of DL videos with people intentionally rounding their upper back, to shorten the distance they have to pull. Just mainting the arch in your lower back like Illuminati said.

Squats, you may be sitting too far back, or not bracing your abs. I've found squeezing my abs tight during every lift really helps keep me upright.

 

[Maks]

Thanks all. I'll try this. And maybe when we get another soccer worldcup in Berlin, and the gym is deserted, I will have the courage to do a vid.

I am not falling forward in the squat. My ass is pretty far back, shins near to vertical, my knees are pushed outside. Or at least I think so. Its damn hard to tell without a vid. And none of the tools in my gym can help me with my form. And noone there is doing squats even near to parallel.
No, its not so much a leaning forward as a pushing the butt back and up without moving the bar. That way the knees go past the sticking angle and can move the bar again after that. Hmph. As a result, the back is more horizontal than vertical after that.

Illuminati - you are right, my arch is not perfect. I tilt the pelvis a bit forward when going past parallel, otherwise i couldnt do that. Hm.
Proto - thanks for the link, I will try some of them things. For sure my elbows are not pointing downwards, I usually flare them out and back to tighten the upper back more. Maybe not a good idea.

Darn i need a vid.

Thanks !

 

[elitft_bouncer]

I use to get the same thing as you with the back squat parallel as well as full. Halfway up, especially when I'm going heavy (1-3RM), the weight kind of stalls. My ass starts to stick out more and rise up and my 70-80 degree back tilt becomes 30-45 degree tilt. The weight then goes up and I've just completed a new PR. When I started front squatting with really heavy weight, the same thing started happening. The only problem is the bar would start to fall forward straining my wrist (clean grip). I then started naturally compensating to the tilting forward by front squatting almost like a froggy type squat with a wider stance (similar to recovering from a clean in the olympics) and statically trying to push my feet and knees out (spreading the floor). I now full squat using the same method and it helps keeps me from tilting to much forward.

 

[carlsuen]

i have a problem similiar to u guys.. but i think the answer lies in a very weak core.. pls bear with my explanation.. when we begin to rise from out squat ppl with weak core will tend to stick at parellel or around parellel.. then if the but comes up first and later the upper body, it is actually indicating that the weak spot isn't with the legs but with the core! same as the DL.. y some of us can't simultaneously louckout with the legs and the upper body and end up legs first then upperbody is also because of a weak core..

i don't know if my conclusion is correct but if it is, then i think i just solved my own problem too!! lol!