For Open Minded Thinkers Only

[Nelson Montana]

Owned again! Keep digging Nelson.

And so, once again, thanks to Juice Authority, another good thread degrades to garbage.

I'm done.

 

[thx9000]

More muscle burns fat.
The body burns muscle before it burns fat.

They are your postition, and to me, defy logic.

Where is the problem?

I haven't read this famous cardio thread, but I assume it is something like "the more muscle one has, the more fat that gets burnt long term" and "Durring cardio the body utilizes carbs first then muscle then fat". Is that right? If so there is no contradiction.

 

[Rio 2001]

That's a great quote.

RIO: I'm a little surprised. I thought you of all people would get my point. I never said that others should offer studies and I shouldn't, or that my experience is enough. I know I would never say that because it's ridiculous and it's stuff like that which frustrates me because it goes against all I believe. To put it in siple terms, I'm saying that a poorly conducted study is as valueless as no study at all, and it too many cases it's worse since people tend to believe studies, no matter how inanccurate they are.

Agreed, a bad study is worse than no study, that's exactly why I tried to emphasize that people should be able to make the distinction.
It just blows me away how you can be so sure about so many controversial aspects of bbdilng , training and nutrition, and I think you are maybe right in a lot of them, that you raise very interesting questions, as a matter of fact you have the abillity to QUESTION what is considered a fact, and strongly present what you believe it would be the truth, but I just think that in some cases you are pushing it too hard. I don't know how can you be so sure about things with so much evidence presented in contrary , even if you consider it weak evidence, isn't enough to raise the benefit of doubt???


And incidentally, I read over a hundred studies gathering information for The Bodybuilding Truth, but I'm not a reference guy. I just think it's boring and "text book like" and I feel my job as a writer, in part, is to entertain. Some guys love that text book stuff. To each his own. Utimately, it doesn't matter because for every study that says one thing, another study says another. What's the point of just picking a side? I'd rather use deduction and present my reasoning. But hey, some people just want the studies. The funny thing is, one guy who posted on this thread accused me of just offering science without experience. How can I possibly be guilty of both sides of the issue???. It's just another example of people choosing ridicule over analysis.

I'm not questioning your book, I'm sure it's quite a pleasant reading, but as you said since there can be different results from some studies there is not , from the scientific point of view, on these studies, a fact, a consense.

Much of what is espoused here is (or should be) intelectual debate, and that should include the interpretation of studies -- especially those conducted for bodybuilding purposes because they tend to not be very well funded.

However, if I say something like, I worked for a supplement company and I saw THIS -- that is not an opinion. You may chose not to believe what I'm saying is accurate, but that's a seperate issue.

If I'm not mistaken, what ulter is saying is; " They only go after the guy who's carrying the ball."

I'm not sure what Silent Method is saying.

 

[Juice Authority]

And so, once again, thanks to Juice Authority, another good thread degrades to garbage.

I'm done.

It would be a great thread if you would simply address FS' points instead of doing the Nelson 2-Step around the issues at hand. Come on Nelson, let's get to the "bottomline". LOL!

 

[Curious George]

Nelson, I just wanted to formally invite you to AF again to debate this.

This is a debate that I would like to see continue on a platform that it deserves. FS is convinced in his arguement as you are in yours. Like he said, and I am paraphrasing, This is where the learning comes from.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, I just wanted to formally invite you to AF again to debate this.

This is a debate that I would like to see continue on a platform that it deserves. FS is convinced in his arguement as you are in yours. Like he said, and I am paraphrasing, This is where the learning comes from.

Thanks for the offer George, but as FS knows, I've already stated that I will not participate in any thread that includes JA, since his sole intention is to derail the thread, disrupt the conversation and heckle me whenever possible. I asked him twice not to come and this thread and he ignored it. I have already gone to post on AF and within minutes JA was on it harrassing me to the point where the thread had to be closed. Since he is a member there, I see nothing that would stop him from doing the same thing again.

My appologies to the members of both EF and AF.

 

[sk*]

this famous cardio thread

Hey bro,

sadly that was my fault.

See ya on aim.

-sk

 

[Ulter]

No one harrasses anyone at AF. If they do, it only happens once.

 

[Curious George]

I understand your position Nelson, but a debate should continue nontheless.

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Thx9000

Muscle cannot be its own fuel. Think about it, if it were true, the more muscle we gained, the harder it would be to burn fat because the body would be using all the muscle for energy first, remember? But we just agreed that more muscle burns fat more effectively. And anyway, how can the fuel be the building block? Muscle would be self-annihilating.

So that’s the logical contradiction.

Not only that, it would be impossible to gain muscle in a carb-depleted state. We would atrophy and die. But it is possible to gain muscle in a carb-depleted state, provided we take in enough protein and fat.

Put another way, if the body prefers muscle as a substrate, it stands to reason that a body prefers to burn protein over fat. Anyone have any evidence of this? It would mean that a ketogenic diet would promote, specifically, obesity and muscle loss, since the body would be burning all the protein and storing the fat.

See?

And Nelson, with regards to JA...how effective is an unanswered insult?