Fitness Log

[Andalite]

LOL...this discussion is going to far off subject.

Trevor: whenever you are faced with a conundrum of possibilities such as these suggestions have presented, think of ONE simple question: "Is this going to help me reach my goals?"

You want to get strong. Do 20 rep squats transfer over to absolute strength? No. So fuck them.

Josh: you're not doing 20 rep squats with 185. You're misunderstanding recovery. The whole premise of 5x5 type linear progression models of training are based around neural recovery. Look at the layout of the single factor 5x5:

Monday: Ramp sets for 5x5. This is your "Volume" day where you spend the most amount of energy because of the volume - not the intensity (intensity = % of 1RM)
Wednesday: Recovery workout involving either lighter squats or front squats, etc. One top set of Deadlifts to make it somewhat challenging.
Friday: Ramp up but hit new 3RM on 2 lifts. This is not so much volume as it is about intensity.

Given all this, there is no place for 20 rep squats because it would massively fuck with your other numbers.

However, lets say you DO like to do 20 rep squats, I'd go with Gladiator's advice on doing them once every 3-4 weeks because that way it gives you time to recover.

Everything you do in the gym has to have a purpose. You're not going there to spin your wheels, are you? If you are then you shouldn't complain about the lack of results because you're not goal oriented in the first place.

So, in keeping with your goals, if you want strength then 20 rep squats can be done from time to time to check up on endurance but there is no translation of that onto maximal or absolute strength. There is no such rule that if you can 20 rep squat 500 lbs then your 1RM is X amount of weight.

20 reppers are difficult mentally and take a toll on you physically as well. If you're gonna do it, you'll be running on low neural recovery for quite a while afterwards.

So this brings us back to the main question or the main reason why you'd want them in your training: Do 20 Rep Squats help you get closer to achieving your goals?

 

[Tblock1]

LOL...this discussion is going to far off subject.

Trevor: whenever you are faced with a conundrum of possibilities such as these suggestions have presented, think of ONE simple question: "Is this going to help me reach my goals?"

You want to get strong. Do 20 rep squats transfer over to absolute strength? No. So fuck them.

Josh: you're not doing 20 rep squats with 185. You're misunderstanding recovery. The whole premise of 5x5 type linear progression models of training are based around neural recovery. Look at the layout of the single factor 5x5:

Monday: Ramp sets for 5x5. This is your "Volume" day where you spend the most amount of energy because of the volume - not the intensity (intensity = % of 1RM)
Wednesday: Recovery workout involving either lighter squats or front squats, etc. One top set of Deadlifts to make it somewhat challenging.
Friday: Ramp up but hit new 3RM on 2 lifts. This is not so much volume as it is about intensity.

Given all this, there is no place for 20 rep squats because it would massively fuck with your other numbers.

However, lets say you DO like to do 20 rep squats, I'd go with Gladiator's advice on doing them once every 3-4 weeks because that way it gives you time to recover.

Everything you do in the gym has to have a purpose. You're not going there to spin your wheels, are you? If you are then you shouldn't complain about the lack of results because you're not goal oriented in the first place.

So, in keeping with your goals, if you want strength then 20 rep squats can be done from time to time to check up on endurance but there is no translation of that onto maximal or absolute strength. There is no such rule that if you can 20 rep squat 500 lbs then your 1RM is X amount of weight.

20 reppers are difficult mentally and take a toll on you physically as well. If you're gonna do it, you'll be running on low neural recovery for quite a while afterwards.

So this brings us back to the main question or the main reason why you'd want them in your training: Do 20 Rep Squats help you get closer to achieving your goals?

Thanks that was a great post! I'd say my goals are:

Strength
Running endurance and speed
Bodyweight exercise endurance
Lactate acid threshold (ie raising my tolerance so it takes longer to puke)

Then after all those goals are seen to, hypertrophy. So I think I'll do 20 rep squats at most every 3-4 weeks like glad said, and maybe on a friday workout not before deadlifts. I maybe want to be like 6 foot 210, so if I gain 20 pounds of muscle and stay the same fat levels I will be very pleased, but the other goals come first.

 

[ExtraMile]

Lol I don't get how u and andalite can workout and spend so much dedication to lifting and diet and recovery and not care much or not really care at all about hypertrophy, to me it would annoy me that normal people would just see me like one of them and people would only find out about my strength in the gym and even then I would hate comments like "wow your actually pretty strong... Especially for your size

I guess we all have our own reasons though...

 

[JDid23]

LOL...this discussion is going to far off subject.

Trevor: whenever you are faced with a conundrum of possibilities such as these suggestions have presented, think of ONE simple question: "Is this going to help me reach my goals?"

You want to get strong. Do 20 rep squats transfer over to absolute strength? No. So fuck them.

Josh: you're not doing 20 rep squats with 185. You're misunderstanding recovery. The whole premise of 5x5 type linear progression models of training are based around neural recovery. Look at the layout of the single factor 5x5:

Monday: Ramp sets for 5x5. This is your "Volume" day where you spend the most amount of energy because of the volume - not the intensity (intensity = % of 1RM)
Wednesday: Recovery workout involving either lighter squats or front squats, etc. One top set of Deadlifts to make it somewhat challenging.
Friday: Ramp up but hit new 3RM on 2 lifts. This is not so much volume as it is about intensity.

Given all this, there is no place for 20 rep squats because it would massively fuck with your other numbers.

However, lets say you DO like to do 20 rep squats, I'd go with Gladiator's advice on doing them once every 3-4 weeks because that way it gives you time to recover.

Everything you do in the gym has to have a purpose. You're not going there to spin your wheels, are you? If you are then you shouldn't complain about the lack of results because you're not goal oriented in the first place.

So, in keeping with your goals, if you want strength then 20 rep squats can be done from time to time to check up on endurance but there is no translation of that onto maximal or absolute strength. There is no such rule that if you can 20 rep squat 500 lbs then your 1RM is X amount of weight.

20 reppers are difficult mentally and take a toll on you physically as well. If you're gonna do it, you'll be running on low neural recovery for quite a while afterwards.

So this brings us back to the main question or the main reason why you'd want them in your training: Do 20 Rep Squats help you get closer to achieving your goals?

when i said to "man up", i was being sarcastic-- i guess it's harder to tell online but i included the to insinuate that haha.

When i made my original post i forgot he was doing 5x5 and referred to doing 20 rep squats on "squat day", which is why i later said that if he's staying strictly with 5x5 that it wouldn't be a good idea.

Also, sry kind of a side question here- do you think 20 reppers help with hypertrophy at all? Some people say that their quads respond very well to high rep training like that, so i am just wondering your take on it.

@EM- Not everyone trains for solely aesthetics. If i saw andalite walking on the street, i would be able to see that he's strong.

 

[Andalite]

when i said to "man up", i was being sarcastic-- i guess it's harder to tell online but i included the to insinuate that haha.

When i made my original post i forgot he was doing 5x5 and referred to doing 20 rep squats on "squat day", which is why i later said that if he's staying strictly with 5x5 that it wouldn't be a good idea.

I know you were being sarcastic...It just seemed like everyone was telling Trevor to do them and I wanted to shed some light on why and how and explain my position on the matter. I know you were being sarcastic....but I also wanted to say that doing a 20 repper with 185 lbs is a LOT harder than with say 135 lbs or whatever.

The only people who are GOOD at 20 reppers are strongmen and those guys do 20 reps with 500 lbs...infact the late Marunde died of a heart attack doing a 50 rep set (believe that!) with 500 lbs or something. But these do it for a purpose: they're competitors and they NEED to do them.

Also, sry kind of a side question here- do you think 20 reppers help with hypertrophy at all? Some people say that their quads respond very well to high rep training like that, so i am just wondering your take on it.

It just depends from person to person. I have massive thighs (34-36 inch waist but 26+ inch thighs) and I never do these 20 rep squats.

If you're doing them for hypertrophy then you'll naturally get a better training effect using a heavier weight - for which you'd naturally have to be training to get stronger. What I mean is, you'll get better results having a 300 pound 20 repper versus using 200 pounds.

Hypertrophy in general requires a good diet.

Given all these parameters, sure, I think widowmakers would help with hypertrophy but I don't think they're the best kind of exercise for the job though.

If you want hypertrophy, doing unilateral exercises like lunges, pistol squats, a billion lunge variations, etc will help MUCH more because they are more area specific.

Also, most of the time people who do widowmakers (20 rep squats) end up developing bad squatting habits just to complete the set. If you can do them and not develop any of these flaws then I think you're fine.

@EM- Not everyone trains for solely aesthetics. If i saw andalite walking on the street, i would be able to see that he's strong.

You saying I'm not sexy, son?

 

[Tblock1]

Jdid: don't worry I know you were messing around about the man up thing. That's why I messed back with you about manning up and running

EM: My goal has always been to be pretty lean, as in fairly muscular but not that intimidating, but yet be stronger than a large amount of guys who just look intimidating. I'm a pretty aggressive person when I want to be so basically I want to be able to kick people's asses who look bigger than me lol And I want people to find out how strong I am not when I am in the gym but when some moderately strong guy who is somewhat big and has won a couple fights gets in my face saying he's the shit and all and I throw his ass out lol.

Andalite: I did pistol squats yesterday (forgot to put them in my log), I did 1x5, then 1x8x, then 1x5 each leg, but I used the opposite hand of the leg I was squatting on for support cause my balance wasn't good enough. Anyway my legs are sore as shit today and it feels awesome. Oh an don't worry jdid does find you very sexy, he keeps sending me pm's about how much he loves your vids

 

[Andalite]

Andalite: I did pistol squats yesterday (forgot to put them in my log), I did 1x5, then 1x8x, then 1x5 each leg, but I used the opposite hand of the leg I was squatting on for support cause my balance wasn't good enough. Anyway my legs are sore as shit today and it feels awesome.

Good job on the Pistol Squats. I made a post about how I managed to progress on them a while ago...let me see if I can dig it up.

 

[Andalite]

Here ya go: Ground Up Strength: Pistol Squats Progression

 

[Tblock1]

Here ya go: Ground Up Strength: Pistol Squats Progression

Yeah I just don't have the balance yet lol. Actually I have always wanted to get better balance though, it is very applicable to real life. Thanks for the article too, it is very interesting.

 

[ExtraMile]

@EM- Not everyone trains for solely aesthetics. If i saw andalite walking on the street, i would be able to see that he's strong.

what would show you that he is strong? i dont get you...

EM: My goal has always been to be pretty lean, as in fairly muscular but not that intimidating, but yet be stronger than a large amount of guys who just look intimidating. I'm a pretty aggressive person when I want to be so basically I want to be able to kick people's asses who look bigger than me lol And I want people to find out how strong I am not when I am in the gym but when some moderately strong guy who is somewhat big and has won a couple fights gets in my face saying he's the shit and all and I throw his ass out lol

you should take up mma or boxing aswell then, weighlifting doesnt have much carry over to fighting skills, and anyway being bigger would help u in a fight, especially a fight in the street...

oh yeah and about jdid sendin u those messages about andalite: are u shittin me? he sends me them all the time too!