first cycle with bad joints/ trigger points

[Laoisheader]

ill keep this short and sweet. I have been lifting weights 3 years. first 2 were bulking when i gained about 70 pounds but alot of fat too. last year was cutting cause my bf was too high and i had joint pain in elbows. im now 13% bf and want to bulk and try my first cycle esp as i hear off some people deca will help with my joint pain. i treat my trigger points with hard balls like golf balls etc on my forearms which have lots of points. it helps but they are not de activated yet. i would of thought that gaining so much strenght from my first cycle would destroy my joints more but a guy from the gym says the deca in my first cycle will have my joints feeling great again. any help appreciated and ill post back. PS. please no advice on fish oils, msm, gluecosamine etc. am taking them all. thing that helps most is trigger point therapy which everybody lifting weights should know about, and my diet is in good order.

 

[dylangemelli]

ill keep this short and sweet. I have been lifting weights 3 years. first 2 were bulking when i gained about 70 pounds but alot of fat too. last year was cutting cause my bf was too high and i had joint pain in elbows. im now 13% bf and want to bulk and try my first cycle esp as i hear off some people deca will help with my joint pain. i treat my trigger points with hard balls like golf balls etc on my forearms which have lots of points. it helps but they are not de activated yet. i would of thought that gaining so much strenght from my first cycle would destroy my joints more but a guy from the gym says the deca in my first cycle will have my joints feeling great again. any help appreciated and ill post back. PS. please no advice on fish oils, msm, gluecosamine etc. am taking them all. thing that helps most is trigger point therapy which everybody lifting weights should know about, and my diet is in good order.

deca is one of the worst things you could run as a first cycle... your friend at the gym is an idiot...

 

[goin on 4T]

ill keep this short and sweet. I have been lifting weights 3 years. first 2 were bulking when i gained about 70 pounds but alot of fat too. last year was cutting cause my bf was too high and i had joint pain in elbows. im now 13% bf and want to bulk and try my first cycle esp as i hear off some people deca will help with my joint pain. i treat my trigger points with hard balls like golf balls etc on my forearms which have lots of points. it helps but they are not de activated yet. i would of thought that gaining so much strenght from my first cycle would destroy my joints more but a guy from the gym says the deca in my first cycle will have my joints feeling great again. any help appreciated and ill post back. PS. please no advice on fish oils, msm, gluecosamine etc. am taking them all. thing that helps most is trigger point therapy which everybody lifting weights should know about, and my diet is in good order.

What are your stats?



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[Laoisheader]

from my research a first cycle of test and deca is not a bad cycle at all. just dont do a deca only cycle as ill get deca dick etc.

 

[Laoisheader]

my stats are 5"11, 180 lbs (which is decent size for me as i have a thin bone structure) under 13% bf. have wanted to do a cycle for a while and after talking to my friend and doin lots of research (which sometmes is confusing as u get diff opinions) i think that adding deca in a small dose under 250 per week or so would actually make my joints feel better. as i posted org i just dont want to ruin my joints as i know ill be lifting way heavier. thanx for the replys

 

[goin on 4T]

my stats are 5"11, 180 lbs (which is decent size for me as i have a thin bone structure) under 13% bf. have wanted to do a cycle for a while and after talking to my friend and doin lots of research (which sometmes is confusing as u get diff opinions) i think that adding deca in a small dose under 250 per week or so would actually make my joints feel better. as i posted org i just dont want to ruin my joints as i know ill be lifting way heavier. thanx for the replys

How old are you?


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[Laoisheader]

ill be 32 in september m8

 

[bonacris]

Try skeletalbalm from needto's array of products..

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[stevesmi]

you can get deca dick whether you run test or not with it. has nothing to do with it. deca dick is caused by the progesterone increases. hence why its a bad first cycle idea, you will get it and not know what to do and by the time you order what you need you are screwed.

deca shouldn't be run for joint issues as the sole purpose IMHO.. it would be drinking draino to kill bacteria in the stomach. yeah it will clean you out but it also will lead to many more problems. solving problem A and causing 3 more problems makes no sense to me.

but hey if you are adament about running it then go for it. everyone has to learn the hard way sometimes. i just hope you know what you are doing during cycle and you have a solid PCT lined up.. if you have tried all that other stuff you listed and still have not fixed your issue then i promise that deca will not do anything either. and lets say it does make you feel great like your buddy says, then what happens after cycle when the deca is gone? you will be right back to the drawing board.

its gonna take rest and atleast lowering of heavy weight to allow your body to heal. adding 70 pounds like that in a short time is obviously not good for your joints and ligaments.

 

[Laoisheader]

thanx so much for your help bro. u have me thinking ere now haha. u get so many diff opinions ere, and on diff sites u wouldnt know wat to do. not planning on taking anything for at least 2 more months and till i am more confident in my knowledge. yea thats wat i would of though alrite. when u stop taking the deca u are in more pain as u are lifting heavier and u dont have it in ur system anymore so my joints will be like an 80 year old man with OA haha. thanx so much lads

 

[burnthiscorpse]

deca shouldn't be run for joint issues as the sole purpose IMHO.. it would be drinking draino to kill bacteria in the stomach. yeah it will clean you out but it also will lead to many more problems. solving problem A and causing 3 more problems makes no sense to me.

.

Not to mention that no matter how good your joints feel....they will revert back to feeling like shit when the deca clears your system.
Plus you'll probably bloat up like a big water ballon from deca.

 

[oxymoron]

Just get on a solid joint supplement and don't take too harsh of a cycle support to dry u out. Don't inject an additional steroid into ur system just b/c it happens to be rumored to help ease joint issues. Well basically what steve said...

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[goin on 4T]

How about you don't lift heavy you will get it eventually we all do. Joints don't hurt me anymore as I am not trying to bench 405, military 375 or squat 500...
Its about lower reps and the weight that the best for our joints. Just do 4-5 sets of 12-15 reps. Deca seems cool try using it on and off for a few years then you will really wish you hadn't.
Burnthiscorps knows his shit deca will be in your system for 18 months hell the clap is easier to get rid of than deca.
Its about muscle twitch anyways not about loading up your blood with tons of gear.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ exactly lift using your muscles, not using your joints, tendons, ligaments.

this is how soft tissue problems develop, but they don't happen quickly.. they slowly get worse and worse till one day you start getting a chronic problem which many guys describe. yeah its cool to be able to bench 4 plates and you get props from other guys at the gym, but is it worth fucking yourself up?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I ran deca at 300mg for 7 weeks....stopped because I was moody and started to get cystic acne on my outer lower back real bad. About that time I got an injury and had to stop all together anyways (500mg test e wk too). PCT didnt even matter. Took me apx 8 months to recover from the deca and have my libido, sensitivity, hard-on function, mood swings, go back to normal.
Not to mention the water weight.

Its just not worth it in any way shape or form.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Volume, volume, Volume.....as 4T said. You wanna be a body builder not a power lifter right? Then shoot for 5 sets on everything. Shoot for 15 reps on each set but no less than 12.

Or look into HST, or FST-7 training or something like that.

 

[thelastmrbigg15]

there is two types of muscle growth cell size and the fiber's in the cells... the high reps and volume with less rest periods pump blood into the cells making the cells bigger... but when lifting heavy it adds to the amount of fiber in each cell... i'm a firm believer in giant sets and 5x3x1 in different phases

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ i do both and I'm not against lifting heavy at all... people always misunderstand what I am saying.. my point is though if something hurts people need to learn to back off and not keep pounding away. or if you are going heavy with shitty form and lifting with their ligaments/tendons and not with their muscles then they have a problem

 

[Laoisheader]

iv been taking good joint suppport formula and am doing trigger point therapy as i said earlier which i highly recommend as it takes some of the pain out of the joints and into the muscles. i train HIT style. i warm up for 10 mins on cross trainer and do 2 warm up sets at 50% and about 80% and sometimes i do one rep with 100% of the weight i use. then i do a set completly to failure. no drop sets and stuff but i train until i cant lift no more and fight the negetive as much as i can on the last rep. obv not with squats and deadlift. then i do a back down set about 2 mins later with about 90% of the last to failure. some exercises i just do one set to failure. typical H.I.T training all compound moves. like my triceps dont get any isolation exercises. just the dips, benchs and shoulder press so i train them indirectly. same with bi's from chins and pull ups and parallel pull ups. and my arms are prob one of my biggest bodyparts. i love this style of training and have gotten some guys in the gym into it. dorian yates,arthur jones, mike mentzer, stuart mc robert, just some who have trained this way. i deadlifted 200kg at a bodyweight of 80kg (clean) training this way after lifting deadlifts for 8 months. these days i am trying to do higher reps yes like 8-14 and never go lower. i blame not warming up and not doing warmup sets as my prob with joints. and slightly bad form at times. So maybe i could leave out the deca for my first cycle and just use test. see how i feel then after that. and dont dog my training haha. it is the only form of training that has really gave me the best gains and millions train in this way. but i am not a H.I.T jedi and am open for advice. cheers everyone

 

[burnthiscorpse]

iv been taking good joint suppport formula and am doing trigger point therapy as i said earlier which i highly recommend as it takes some of the pain out of the joints and into the muscles. i train HIT style. i warm up for 10 mins on cross trainer and do 2 warm up sets at 50% and about 80% and sometimes i do one rep with 100% of the weight i use. then i do a set completly to failure. no drop sets and stuff but i train until i cant lift no more and fight the negetive as much as i can on the last rep. obv not with squats and deadlift. then i do a back down set about 2 mins later with about 90% of the last to failure. some exercises i just do one set to failure. typical H.I.T training all compound moves. like my triceps dont get any isolation exercises. just the dips, benchs and shoulder press so i train them indirectly. same with bi's from chins and pull ups and parallel pull ups. and my arms are prob one of my biggest bodyparts. i love this style of training and have gotten some guys in the gym into it. dorian yates,arthur jones, mike mentzer, stuart mc robert, just some who have trained this way. i deadlifted 200kg at a bodyweight of 80kg (clean) training this way after lifting deadlifts for 8 months. these days i am trying to do higher reps yes like 8-14 and never go lower. i blame not warming up and not doing warmup sets as my prob with joints. and slightly bad form at times. So maybe i could leave out the deca for my first cycle and just use test. see how i feel then after that. and dont dog my training haha. it is the only form of training that has really gave me the best gains and millions train in this way. but i am not a H.I.T jedi and am open for advice. cheers everyone

Well now that we actually have some in depth insight into your training we can see that you know what you are talking about.
Just shoot for the higher rep ranges like you have been. Listen to your body. Dont push through pain (bad pain).
Cissus powder will work for tendons if your having issues. But you need to order it in bulk form and cap it yourself because it needs to be taken at a much higher than recommended dose. But its safe. All the joint formulas in the world have dick in them for tendons. They all target cartilage and bones ect...
Look into Alflutop also. Or some of the HGH peptides like Ipamorelin.
If you do run a test cycle, run it without the AI but have it on hand. The little extra estrogen will help lube your joints.
Unless you get gyno symptoms, or start to retain a ton of water then you dont need it.

 

[Laoisheader]

cheers for the advice burnthiscorpse. u seem to know ur stuff.

 

[LiamD]

no. i think u could take the deca. 100%. it will heal your joints and make them better. Take a high dose of test e too and when u go off cycle still take the deca but take a low dose. very low. then after your PCT keep taking a low dose of deca and when u cycle again take a high dose. simple. So u always have some deca in your system dude. i hear alot of crap sometimes but i know a player who cycle like this and his joints are perfect. I dont take steroids but if u private me ill hook u up with my friends email and u can talk to him
I agree with what burn said. bring ur reps up too 15-30 and never go to failure. just make sure and pick a muscle a day to train and do at least 30 sets per muscle as u will NEVER BE GOING TO FAILURE. H.I.T never works and u can ask anyone that. it about low intensity Volume training. Best of luck and private me if u want that hook up.

 

[thelastmrbigg15]

there are two forms of growth the plasma in the cells and the fiber in the cells... the plasma makes the cells bigger allowing more fibers to be formed. The H.I.T training u basically pump as much blood to the muscle as possible arnold never talked about the pump for nuthing... but yes heavy is just as important to keep the muscle dense

 

[LiamD]

just start taking deca as my previous post says. and stay on it as i said. think long term. your joints will thank you. and train 15- 30 reps. ull do good. and drink lots of water and ull do good. heavy is over ratted. but does work. total volumne can work too. and if u want that hook let me know. now get ur ass to the gym LOL

 

[Laoisheader]

How the hell can i stay on deca long term?? that would destroy me. jesus lad i dont know what ur bud is at but thats some bad advice. u sure u got it rite like? cause i doubt it. sorry man

 

[thelastmrbigg15]

rest time is important too, low rest time doesn't give the blood or pump from the last set time to go away. plus higher heart rate pumping more blood.

 

[RADAR]

no. i think u could take the deca. 100%. it will heal your joints and make them better. Take a high dose of test e too and when u go off cycle still take the deca but take a low dose. very low. then after your PCT keep taking a low dose of deca and when u cycle again take a high dose. simple. So u always have some deca in your system dude. i hear alot of crap sometimes but i know a player who cycle like this and his joints are perfect. I dont take steroids but if u private me ill hook u up with my friends email and u can talk to him
I agree with what burn said. bring ur reps up too 15-30 and never go to failure. just make sure and pick a muscle a day to train and do at least 30 sets per muscle as u will NEVER BE GOING TO FAILURE. H.I.T never works and u can ask anyone that. it about low intensity Volume training. Best of luck and private me if u want that hook up.

For the record, Deca will not heal joints,all you're doing is putting a band aid over the affected area. To advoid joint problems you should be taking preventative measures way before you start having problems.
I add 1/2 pack of jello gellatin with my shakes every day, Gellatin has shown to Lubricate and heal the spongy cartlidges between the bones.

 

[Laoisheader]

liam thinks deca forever for me Radar. yea from my research and wat people are saying i think ur rite. and H.I.T training does work

 

[goin on 4T]

no. i think u could take the deca. 100%. it will heal your joints and make them better.

Deca does not heal anything it only add a lubricant ei extra fluid to the joints, the problem with deca is that you think you are healed, you use heavier weights, the only problem is you are hurting yourself worse and don't even know it.
Deca is not a solution it is a mask and can and will make things worse.

 

[stevesmi]

no. i think u could take the deca. 100%. it will heal your joints and make them better. Take a high dose of test e too and when u go off cycle still take the deca but take a low dose. very low. then after your PCT keep taking a low dose of deca and when u cycle again take a high dose. simple. So u always have some deca in your system dude. i hear alot of crap sometimes but i know a player who cycle like this and his joints are perfect. I dont take steroids but if u private me ill hook u up with my friends email and u can talk to him .

horrible advice. please just stop. you are telling a newb with no experience with AAS to run deca indefinately because your friend did it. when you yourself have no experience with AAS. this isn't bodybuilding.com, this is a hardcore site so if you are gonna give advice please know what you are talking about or you can really hurt people

not trying to be a dick at all.. and you seem like a genuinely nice guy who is trying to help, but as a mod on this forum it is my responsibility to protect people. if you stick around and gain more knowledge you will look back at this post at a later date and laugh at yourself for that kind of advice.

 

[Matthersby]

no. i think u could take the deca. 100%. it will heal your joints and make them better. Take a high dose of test e too and when u go off cycle still take the deca but take a low dose. very low. then after your PCT keep taking a low dose of deca and when u cycle again take a high dose. simple. So u always have some deca in your system dude. i hear alot of crap sometimes but i know a player who cycle like this and his joints are perfect. I dont take steroids but if u private me ill hook u up with my friends email and u can talk to him
I agree with what burn said. bring ur reps up too 15-30 and never go to failure. just make sure and pick a muscle a day to train and do at least 30 sets per muscle as u will NEVER BE GOING TO FAILURE. H.I.T never works and u can ask anyone that. it about low intensity Volume training. Best of luck and private me if u want that hook up.

Almost every last bit of advice you are giving is wrong. Please stop advising anyone on any forum. Never go to failure, hiit doesn't work, run deca all the time? please stop.

 

[dylangemelli]

horrible advice. please just stop. you are telling a newb with no experience with AAS to run deca indefinately because your friend did it. when you yourself have no experience with AAS. this isn't bodybuilding.com, this is a hardcore site so if you are gonna give advice please know what you are talking about or you can really hurt people

not trying to be a dick at all.. and you seem like a genuinely nice guy who is trying to help, but as a mod on this forum it is my responsibility to protect people. if you stick around and gain more knowledge you will look back at this post at a later date and laugh at yourself for that kind of advice.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ listen to this very closely... the advice you gave sounds like you are intentionally trying to hurt this poor guy who just wants some good advice... you cannot give that type of advice and should not be advising people on things just because "your friend did it" the advice you gave is wreckless and harmful... there are so many of us that work so hard to help people and keep them safe and then a post like this is put on here and hinders what we are doing... please do not advise people anymore until you have actually gained some knowledge on here, which you most definitely can by reading more...

 

[Laoisheader]

cheers lads. any advice i get id do alot of research on it, cant belive everything people write. im thinkin of just healing my joints and then in the future maybe try a cycle of test e.