Explaining War

[SUST-MAN]

Temple...i think you are also forgeting what the French did for us. Do more research. We are even steven with the french as far as favors go.

 

[The Ranger]

I beg to differ on that account Sust-Man, but, for a good debate on the topic, please post the facts, and let's see where we go my man....

Ranger

 

[Bikini Mod]

I'm still trying to figure out what was so offensive about the original post.....
Sometimes you have to stand up and do the right thing.
Sometimes war is the only solution and sometimes you have to look at the greater good. So what if we will benefit down the road, it doesn't make us any less justified now.

The french seem to have forgotten what we did for them, I hope we are not so quick to forget what they didn't do.

To say that this war is justified because it is akin to "not drawing your blinds when your neighbor is beating the shit out of his wife" IS OFFENSIVE... at least it is to me on several levels only one of which I care to speak to on an open forum.

I especially find this HYPOCRITICAL because it states that the US stands up and defends their helpless neighbors simply because it is the right thing to do and NOT because it is self-serving AT ALL.

Where was the US when my parents' country had Russian tanks rolling down the street in October of 1956? MY PARENTS' COUNTRY BEGGED THE US FOR HELP POST-WWII WHEN THE RUSSIANS TRIED LIKE MOTHERFUCKERS TO OCCUPY MOST OF EASTERN EUROPE....

WAIT A MINUTE...

THEY DID.

So please spare me the "neighbor standing up PURELY because IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO" justification of this war.

I was raised with stories of how my father came to this country with nothing but the uniform on his back. Had my father NOT deserted his country - HE WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED.

Desert BECAUSE YOUR COUNTRY BEGGED FOR HELP BUT GOT NONE AND MAYBE LIVE TO SEE ANOTHER DAY NOT KNOWING WHERE YOU WILL GO OR HOW YOU WILL LIVE KNOWING FULL WELL THAT YOU ARE LEAVING EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN BEHIND MAYBE NEVER SEEING THEM AGAIN?!... OR STAY AND SURELY DIE BECAUSE "YOUR BIGGER STRONGER NEIGHBOR THAT WOULD SURELY STAND UP FOR YOU ESPECIALLY BECAUSE YOU BEGGED FOR HELP - DIDN'T?!"

My mother spent the revolution (which was VERY QUICKLY SQUELCHED) in a hospital wondering when the next bomb would land on them.

And for the record - my mother came to this country several years later with ONE change of clothing BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS CAME - THEY TOOK - AND LEFT ALMOST NOTHING FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THEIR TO BEGIN WITH.

Gee, you think that perhaps the US offered political assylum and immigration opportunities to so many from my parents' country because THEY SILENTLY STOOD BY AND DID NOTHING WHILE SO MANY WERE MURDERED, HAD EVERYTHING THEY EVER WORKED FOR STOLEN AND LEFT THEIR ECONOMY CRIPPLED?!

DO I HATE ALL RUSSIANS NOW?

DO I HATE ALL AMERICANS NOW?

NO - I DO NOT! I HATE ALL BULLY-MOTHER FUCKERS (AND FOR ME THEIR ETHNICITY, SKIN COLOR, RELIGION, WHATEVER HAS ZERO TO DO WITH HOW I DETERMINE WHO A BULLY-MOTHERFUCKER IS.... ) NOW AND I FIND HYPOCRITES EVEN MORE DETESTABLE.

One would think that I would SURELY be PRO-WAR ESPECIALLY because my parents' country WAS NOT HELPED....

GUESS WHAT?!

I AM NOT PRO-WAR... OR EVEN PRO-VIOLENCE.

.....Imagine that.

And I am so sorry that any of you buy the bullshit media propaganda that "the French" this or "the Afghanies" that... blah, blah, blah. Just as I am sorry that any NON-AMERICAN buys the anti-American propaganda that is proliferated throughout the world.

I am not pro-French or anti-American.

I am PRO-HUMAN KIND.... and ANTI-HIPOCRASY.

Again, call me simple.... but works for me.

For the record, not gettin' pissy with anyone. Just explaining MY point of view.

I am still waiting on responses from the originator of the thread.

 

[Ffactor]

Well to be honest with you I'm happy that Saddam is gone but I'm still a tad bit confused about the whole war thingy so I can't really blame the French for being confused either. On a side note kinimom's boyfriend is a commie and I don't think I like him at all!

 

[Bikini Mod]

LOL@FFactor!

 

[Ffactor]

War is a breakdown in humanity no matter what the circumstances are.

 

[Bikini Mod]

War is a breakdown in humanity no matter what the circumstances are.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it...

However, THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS THREAD OFFERED QUITE A DIFFERENT EXPLANATION WITH THE EXAMPLE CITED.

If I understand correctly (and until the originator informs me otherwise this is my understanding) -

THE EXPLANATION FOR WAR IS "STANDING UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT"... IN ESSENCE PRESERVING OR PREVENTING FURTHER BREAKDOWN OF HUMANITY.

Don't the two explanations seem contradictory?

Or is it just me, being simple again?

 

[Ffactor]

My opinion is too idealistic and out of fashion these days. War is unavoidable sometimes. History will tell whether this war is considered to be a success or a failure and what the true reasons were behind it. I am not naive enough to think this was about freeing the Iraqi people. We shall have to wait and see. I hope the troops come home safe and that the Iraqi's can live a better life. I wonder what the History books will say about the thousands of Iraqi children that have died due to sanctions.

 

[Bikini Mod]

My opinion is too idealistic and out of fashion these days. War is unavoidable sometimes. History will tell whether this war is considered to be a success or a failure and what the true reasons were behind it. I am not naive enough to think this was about freeing the Iraqi people. We shall have to wait and see. I hope the troops come home safe and that the Iraqi's can live a better life. I wonder what the History books will say about the thousands of Iraqi children that have died due to sanctions.

Sadly, I don't believe a single history book will mention a single one.

And for those of you who think that I think the French government is any more noble than the American government you are waaaaaay off-base.

The French government was ONE that did not agree with the US going to war with Iraq. I still don't understand why all I keep hearing about IS THE FUCKING FRENCH? Why do I not see so many threads begun ABOUT EVERY OTHER GOVERNMENT that opposed the US going to war with IRAQ?!

(Please take note of the use of the word GOVERNMENT in my last paragraph.) I differentiate between the government of a country and THE PEOPLE that live therein.

Again, please feel free to call me simple.... but STILL works for me.

 

[Ffactor]

Sadly, I don't believe a single history book will mention a single one.

And for those of you who think that I think the French government is any more noble than the American government you are waaaaaay off-base.

The French government was ONE that did not agree with the US going to war with Iraq. I still don't understand why all I keep hearing about IS THE FUCKING FRENCH? Why do I not see so many threads begun ABOUT EVERY OTHER GOVERNMENT that opposed the US going to war with IRAQ?!

(Please take note of the use of the word GOVERNMENT in my last paragraph.) I differentiate between the government of a country and THE PEOPLE that live therein.

Again, please feel free to call me simple.... but STILL works for me.

Very good point. Just about 70% of the world opposed this war and I agree that most of us fail to distinguish between governments and people.