Explaining War

[chesty]

Wtihout reading through most of this, I think some have missed the point of the story.

How do you explain war, death, disease, famine, rape, murder, torture, etc to a 9 year old child who when he is eleven has already figured out how to murder another human being and sometimes does.

If we shelter our children to the point of utopian beliefs then we have done them a diservice. The father, whether or not this was a true story, got his son to realize that one cannot wait until it affects him directly, because then it is to late. So even though it is unpopular sometimes we must act without help and alone at times.

As for why were we friends with Iraq in 82, or Iran later on? Or for that matter, why are we friends with Pakistan and Turkey now? It is because it is convenient for us. We make friends and alliances with those that meet our needs at the time. If Husseing had not gone off the deep end, things would be very different.

As for condemning Israel and then thanking them, remember, hindsight is always 20/20.

I believe we did fight to remove Hussein and also to free the Iraqi people. If not, we would be erecting our flags all over their country.

As for the sanctions, that fucking piece of shit country got plenty of medicine and food. Their dicktator kept it for himself and pals. He is responsible for the problems of his country. Not us! He knew exactly what he had to do. If he had done that the first time without all the bullshit, he might still be around runningthe country.

Truth is he was probably as fucked up as Hitler. Next we go to Syria, and a few other places.

Everyone wants us to be the worlds police, well, guess what now we are, so they need to just stand the fuck by!

 

[Bikini Mod]

Wtihout reading through most of this, I think some have missed the point of the story.

How do you explain war, death, disease, famine, rape, murder, torture, etc to a 9 year old child who when he is eleven has already figured out how to murder another human being and sometimes does.

Quite easily Chesty.

Person A is an agressive asshole. Person B is not = WAR. Nothing sugar coated, just cold hard fact. Why does it have to be that way? BECAUSE THAT IS JUST HOW IT IS.

I tell my girls all the time that regardless of how "nice" they are to some people that doesn't automatically mean that that "niceness" will be returned. Actually, that many times THE TOTAL OPPOSITE WILL HAPPEN and that this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with that other person.

Everyone wants us to be the worlds police, well, guess what now we are, so they need to just stand the fuck by!

While I respect your opinions and support your right to voice them I don't necessarily agree with everything you say. MANY countries clearly did NOT want the US to be "the world police" in this case. Is this right or wrong? Honestly, I feel to debate that is silly.

As for the US being "the world police", I don't buy that either. Sorry, but the US having IGNORED all of eastern europe when the Russians were busy taking it over especially when this was a case when the world DID ASK FOR THE US TO BE "THE WORLD POLICE" just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when this arguement is used. Where was "Big Brother" when my parent's country was being crushed and THOSE PEOPLE rose up against the Russians in an attempt to take their country back? One would think as a result of this that I would surely support war (especially if it is one where the US is "trying to be the world police"). Nope, sorry I STILL DON'T.

It was even offered to me that just because the US DIDN'T help back then that doesn't negate "THE FACT" that the US is TRYING TO HELP the Iraqi's now.

Nope, sorry STILL DOESN'T FLY WITH ME.

Am I right? Am I wrong? - NOT THE POINT.

I support our servicemen and women 100% - no question. I believe that the US is a fine country - no question.

BUT -

I am STILL ANTI-WAR and think it damned arrogant and foolhearty for ANY COUNTRY (not just the US) to think it is the center of the universe and "the only one whose opinions matter."

 

[Ffactor]

OK Chesty I'll bite. We went in to Iraq to remove Saddam and free the people. Excellent! If Syria is next what is our objective there?

 

[Temple]

Quite easily Chesty.

Person A is an agressive asshole. Person B is not = WAR. Nothing sugar coated, just cold hard fact. Why does it have to be that way? BECAUSE THAT IS JUST HOW IT IS.

I tell my girls all the time that regardless of how "nice" they are to some people that doesn't automatically mean that that "niceness" will be returned. Actually, that many times THE TOTAL OPPOSITE WILL HAPPEN and that this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with that other person.



While I respect your opinions and support your right to voice them I don't necessarily agree with everything you say. MANY countries clearly did NOT want the US to be "the world police" in this case. Is this right or wrong? Honestly, I feel to debate that is silly.

As for the US being "the world police", I don't buy that either. Sorry, but the US having IGNORED all of eastern europe when the Russians were busy taking it over especially when this was a case when the world DID ASK FOR THE US TO BE "THE WORLD POLICE" just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when this arguement is used. Where was "Big Brother" when my parent's country was being crushed and THOSE PEOPLE rose up against the Russians in an attempt to take their country back? One would think as a result of this that I would surely support war (especially if it is one where the US is "trying to be the world police"). Nope, sorry I STILL DON'T.

It was even offered to me that just because the US DIDN'T help back then that doesn't negate "THE FACT" that the US is TRYING TO HELP the Iraqi's now.

Nope, sorry STILL DOESN'T FLY WITH ME.

Am I right? Am I wrong? - NOT THE POINT.

I support our servicemen and women 100% - no question. I believe that the US is a fine country - no question.

BUT -

I am STILL ANTI-WAR and think it damned arrogant and foolhearty for ANY COUNTRY (not just the US) to think it is the center of the universe and "the only one whose opinions matter."

You have made it abundantly clear that you are ANTI-WAR. What exactly is your solution?
Soldier is just another word for warrior and whether they are acting defensively or offensively their function is to wage war.
ANTI - WAR = ANTI SOLDIER!

 

[Ffactor]

You have made it abundantly clear that you are ANTI-WAR. What exactly is your solution?
Soldier is just another word for warrior and whether they are acting defensively or offensively their function is to wage war.
ANTI - WAR = ANTI SOLDIER!

Interesting, the first pro-war woman on Elite! Anti War = Anti Soldier??????????/

 

[chesty]

We did not help a lot of the European country's in the fifties and later because of the nuclear threat. At that time Russia nor US would have really thought about using nukes twice. Korea the First UN fuck up left us depleted and weary of war.

Whether or not we like it we are the worlds police. If we act we are damned. If we don't act we are damned just as you pointed out with your homeland. Just think if the US had stayed isolationist in WWI.

War is ugly, it is a human trait and it is our nature. We are carnivoristic animals with the instinct to fight. It does not matter how intelligent we become or how evolved. Our natural tendency is to fight. It is ugly and it is the truth.

As for only doing what is right such as in the story of this thread. How many times have you or someone else been driving down the street and did not stop to help an accident victim or saw a neighbor or stranger getting the shit beat out of them, etc and did nothing? Sooner or later we have enough and act. Unfortunately it can be too late as the story pointed out.

The way I look at it is this. This is my country and it is my duty to defend her no matter what. Even if it means that defense is the most unpopular in the world.

Why were they against us? France, etc. they are hiding shit. Now that we have done the dirty work, they are all trying to divi up Iraq like it is there personal possessions. France is rejoicing, etc.

Those are the hypocrits and bullshittes that should be closely watched.

As for Syria, they helped to murder 281 of my brother Marines in 1983 while they slept helping another third world piece of shit country. For me it is as simplistic as it gets:

IT IS FUCKING PAYBACK! PLAIN AND SIMPLE! AS SIMPLE AS A HUMAN EMOTION CAN GET! DON'T LIKE IT, OH WELL, DON'T GIVE A FUCK

 

[Ffactor]

Excellent! We should start with Israel, followed by Syria, Libya and Saudi Arabia. Totally agree with you Chesty, payback for the marines accidentally killed by Israel, Syria, Libya and Saudi Arabia. I am in 100% agreement!

 

[TheProject]

You have made it abundantly clear that you are ANTI-WAR. What exactly is your solution?
Soldier is just another word for warrior and whether they are acting defensively or offensively their function is to wage war.
ANTI - WAR = ANTI SOLDIER!

My boss was giving me the same speech the other day, and how the protestors shouldn't speak out because it could negatively impact the morale of the soldiers.

I tend to think that the United States stands for and defends freedom, even if that freedom means that certain individuals say things that others find distasteful.

And the whole idea of war as payback is asinine.

 

[Bikini Mod]

You have made it abundantly clear that you are ANTI-WAR. What exactly is your solution?
Soldier is just another word for warrior and whether they are acting defensively or offensively their function is to wage war.
ANTI - WAR = ANTI SOLDIER!

I respect your feelings however, I must humbly disagree.

Anti-war DOES NOT = anti soldier.

And I am sadly at a loss for a solution. I never said that I DID have one. This is a global phenomena that transcends the thought of any individual, especially someone that has a little sophistication as me. I know ZERO about politics and have very little experience when it comes to the ways of the world - admittedly.

Your feelings are based on the emotional connection you have with soldiers that you know personally and I respect that. HOWEVER, my feelings are based on an emotional connection to a man that is NOT a soldier but who is risking his life TO AID IN SAVING THE LIVES OF ALL PRESENT INCLUDING WHAT MAY BE THE VERY SAME SOLDIERS THAT YOU KNOW.

It is because of this that I can say 100% without ANY reservations whatsoever that I AM ANTI-WAR and NOT ANTI-SOLDIER.

Chesty, I have PERSONALLY been hung out to dry by more than a few "friends" and I have also been helped by total strangers. I have not forgotten all the good that came when I needed help most, however, I have also learned to stand on my own two feet.

Have their been times when I SHOULD HAVE intervened? YES.

Have their been times when I SHOULD HAVE stayed the fuck out? YES.

Hindsight is 20/20 and we all have weaknesses and human frailties. One can only do what they think is best with the given circumstances and the rest is up to the universe.

You are correct - War is ugly and it IS a sad reality. No way around it sometimes I suppose.

I am not supporting ANY government but to make a blanket statement about A PEOPLE based simply on the actions of their government is NOT CORRECT and limiting to the individual that holds those beliefs. One can not categorize the feelings of ALL the people in a country based strictly on the policy of their government.

Many of you might simply say that this has a lot to do with my feelings about ONE MAN... and perhaps it does. BUT - just because I personally know of ONE EXAMPLE of a human being (who is flawed and certainly NOT GOD) does not mean that ALL of his countrymen all equally good. I am sure that his country is filled with many people that are less than wonderful if not downright less than human. So I ask then in this respect, how is his country so different than mine?

And Chesty, I am sorry but I humbly must disagree with your assessment of why the US did not help the eastern european countries when they needed it most. But because I feel no need to argue with you or anyone about this I am telling you FLAT OUT THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE REASONS AS TO WHY THE US DID NOT HELP OUT as I bear no resentment towards the US for it. The only reason I brought it up in the first place was because of your "the US being the world police" arguement. It simply doesn't hold water.

Bottom line - life isn't fair and there is no justice.

I am much too simple to argue intelligently about politics and how to end the devastation that is tyranny and war and how to bring about world peace. Heck, I can't even have a normal conversation to the man that I was married to for 11 years.

But what I CAN DO is NOT TEACH MY CHILDREN HATE. What I have seen on countless threads here on elite is "the French" this and "The Iraqis" that and "The muslims" the other thing and "the US" the third... countless statements of hate and fear based on ignorance and even though my words may mean very little in the grand scheme of things I had just had enough and felt it time to TRY to help people see that no good ever comes from the proliferation of hate and HYPOCRASY.

 

[Temple]

I absolutely believe in the right to protest. I believe in the right to oppose the war. I will defend your right to do that to the end but that does not mean that others do not have the right to be offended by your protest. What chaps my butt is when people say "I oppose the war but I support our troops". The troops are the WARriors. They are doing what they signed up to do. I challenge you to find ONE American soldier who buys that line.