Explaining War

[gsxr1000]

That's a cheerful little anecdote up there Ranger, but it needs to be adjusted somewhat to make it more realistic, both in the sense of the story and metaphorically speaking in terms of the greater picture.

I say the father is sleeping with his nextdoor neighbor's wife.

The little son get's beat up and has his lunch money stolen by kids across the street.

And the mother is pregnant with the guy across the street's bastard love-child.

Now the story would make more sense.

 

[muscle_geek]

For your 1st comment....can you please tell me how Saddam shows clear inclination to support terrorism....other than by words? Do you people really think that if you say something enough times...then it becomes true? The truth is....no links have been made between Saddam Hussein and terrorism (other than the palestinians...but if you think they are the same as al qaueda...your nuts)

For your 2nd comment. Israel is a mess because of the israeli settlements in the West bank and the way the the palestinians are treated. How do you think a democratic iraq can assist in this situation unless the israelis leave the settlements?

And for your 3rd comment...."LIBERATION" of iraq. With a democracy, a Shite president will be elected due to the overwhelming SHia population in iraq. The SHia are fundamentalist muslims. DO you think that the Kurds and the Sunni will be happy living under a fundamentalist regime? DEMOCRACY DOES NOT WORK IN IRAQ. its a very complicated issue.

Is has been proven that Saddam has made monetary payments to Palestinian families of suicide bomber. That is an inclination to support terrorism. I agree that there are no direct lines between Saddam and Al Qaeda, but there are some indirect lines. This is only my opinion, but I believe that Saddam would eventually use terroristic tactics against the US if he had the chance.

On my second point, I don't think that by winning this war we will gain peace in Israel/Palestine. I think a good independent peace plan is being offered now. My point is that with a good peace plan in place for Israel/Palestine AND Saddam's regime replaced, that we could see more stability than ever in the middle east.

On my third point, Iraqi democracy will not be perfect and there will be problems. But it will be much better than what they have. The US just needs to invest the time and money to make it work. There are already indications that opposing factions are starting to work together.

 

[velvett]

I can not believe that ANY PARENT would explain war to their child LIKE THAT.... Talk about hypocracy! Is the US ALL OVER THE WORLD "KEEPING BAD MEN FROM RAPING, MURDERING, LOOTING, KILLING?!"

You MUST BE JOKING!!!

And just what is the criteria that the US uses to decide WHICH BAD MEN NEED TO BE BEATEN DOWN AND WHICH DO NOT? IT COULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT THE US'S RELATIONSHIP IS MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL OR NOT AT THE GIVEN TIME WHEN ALL THE LOOTING/RAPING/MURDERING WAS GOING ON..... DOES IT?!

Please spare me the silly story of the teary-eyed parents and child. It makes me sick to my stomach.

War unfortunately is a necessary evil. As long as there are two people on this planet. If one is an agressive ASSHOLE that will fuck with the other NO MATTER WHAT (you all remember about the concept of "appeasement" - Yea, Hitler was REALLY EASILY satisfied) then there will be war.

Sad, but true.

We are SUPPOSED TO BE CIVILIZED. But the truth is that WE ARE NOT.

I think it is better to teach our children the concept of understanding the difference between what we can change and can not change. We need COURAGE, WISDOM and ACCEPTANCE in order to dedipher the difference... not some silly analogy about your next door neighboor beating and killing his wife.

HOW MANY OF YOU RIGHT NOW KNOW FOR A FACT OF ANY OF YOUR FRIENDS THAT IS PUTTING HIS/HER HANDS ON THEIR S/O YET YOU DO FUCKING NOT A GODDAMNED THING!? WHY DO YOU DO NOTHING? BECAUSE THEN IT *MIGHT* FUCK UP YOUR FRIENDSHIP AND HELL, THE FRIENDSHIP WAS MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL BEFORE YOU KNEW, RIGHT? FUCK, YOU NEVER SAW HIM OR HER PUT THEIR HANDS ON THEIR S/O RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM DID YOU? SO THEN THAT MUST MEAN THAT IT ISN'T REALLY HAPPENING .... RIGHT?!?!

(I say his or her because believe it or not women can be just as violent and abusive as men and the men are even MORE ashamed than the women to admit it happens.)

Please spare me this nonsense.

I am VERY SUPPORTIVE of your servicemen and women. It is because of them that I can sit here safely and not have to worry about tanks rolling down my street - BUT I also believe that such a story is HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE and HYPOCRITICAL.

I couldn't have said it better - so I'll just repeat it for good measure.

 

[SUST-MAN]

Is has been proven that Saddam has made monetary payments to Palestinian families of suicide bomber. That is an inclination to support terrorism. I agree that there are no direct lines between Saddam and Al Qaeda, but there are some indirect lines. This is only my opinion, but I believe that Saddam would eventually use terroristic tactics against the US if he had the chance.

On my second point, I don't think that by winning this war we will gain peace in Israel/Palestine. I think a good independent peace plan is being offered now. My point is that with a good peace plan in place for Israel/Palestine AND Saddam's regime replaced, that we could see more stability than ever in the middle east.

On my third point, Iraqi democracy will not be perfect and there will be problems. But it will be much better than what they have. The US just needs to invest the time and money to make it work. There are already indications that opposing factions are starting to work together.

Bro....palestinian terrorism is not the same as other terrorism. These people are fighting for their freedom. We may not agree with there methods, but they have no other choice. They are an occupied people living under harsh and inhumane conditions. Supporting Suicide bombers in israel has nothing to do with supporting fundamentalist muslims.

Have you not seen the world's reaction to this war? Do you not think that there is growing anti american sentiment world wide? DOnt you think the arab world hates us even more? How do you think that this will lead to stability in the mid east lead by america.

For the iraqi people...yes, a democracy could be better than the conditions they have been exposed to. THeir alternative was licing in harsh economic sactions. Yes....they will also have more freedom etc...but lets look at our own interests. Shia muslims are fundamentalist muslims. If anyone will harbor terrorism, it is them and not Saddam. Saddam is a secular muslim and the fundamentalists want to destroy him aswell. With a powerful fundamentalist Shia government in iraq, backed by Oil money....Dont you think that in the next few years...Iraq can be an even bigger problem for the US than a contained and weak Saddam Hussein?

 

[muscle_geek]

Only time will tell. I'm not as worried about Iran and the Shia muslims. I believe our show of strength will keep them down. At this point, I don't see too many countries that want to fuck with Bush. Lately many countries have been toning down their rhetoric. Its interesting how that happens once they know that they can't play games within the UN.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I couldn't have said it better - so I'll just repeat it for good measure.

Velvett... that is a REAL COMPLIMENT coming from you.


On a side note, I am comforted to know that I am not the only one who sees why this "little explanation of war" is A CROCK OF SHIT.

Gender, political affiliation, age, marital status, parental status, ethnicity HAS ZERO TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS BULLSHIT.

It is not that complicated. It is really very simple.

Two people co-exist. Person A is AN AGRESSIVE ASSHOLE (might be a "real nice guy or lady" to the outside world - but TOTALLY DIFFERENT THOSE ON THE "INSIDE"). Person B is NOT.... Eventually Person A will fuck with Person B - WAR. What the "persons" surrounding and WITHIN the given situation do because of the actions of Person A are is to be decided BY EACH INDIVIDUAL.

There is NO RIGHT OR WRONG....

Each person has to make thier own choices and live with the rammifications of those choices.

It is THAT SIMPLE.

Remember people, it isn't life's circumstances that determine our character, however the way in which WE CHOOSE to react to those circumstances.

You can all go on and on about Sadam this and the Iraqis that and Bush the third thing... FACT: There is a war going on in Iraq. The US was the aggressor. What we choose to do as indiviuals (not as Americans - BUT AS HUMAN BEINGS) because of this fact is up to us. We can either be part of the problem or we can TRY to be part of the solution.

 

[velvett]

Velvett... that is a REAL COMPLIMENT coming from you.

Whatch you smokin'?




Quick - with or without nuts?

Don't think just answer.

 

[The Shadow]

...that is a trick question

Danger
Danger

 

[Bikini Mod]

WITH!!!




...was there ever any doubt?

 

[The Ranger]

Sust-Man, you bring up very valid points, and I agree with almost all of them...I just want to explore what could have been done long before this to avoid war....and I do know we did support SH and his actions not so many years ago....case in point, when Isarel bombed his nuke plants...we condemed that action, yet today we are thankful they did....

Ranger