Elevated Liver Enzymes!!!

[bodybuilder63]

So jus got a blood test done pre cycle everything checked out except my liver enzymes were 44 and it not suppose to be more than 36 and my potassium levels were 5.5 and normal range is 3.5. What does this mean? is this normal with bodybuilder? Im bout to start my cycle of Dbol and Test E nd i wanna make sure everything checks out b4 i start

Need as much imput as possible!!

 

[enacer420nj]

I wouldnt start dbol if your liver enzymes are already elevated...what are you running now and do u drink alcohol?

 

[Tatyana]

So jus got a blood test done pre cycle everything checked out except my liver enzymes were 44 and it not suppose to be more than 36 and my potassium levels were 5.5 and normal range is 3.5. What does this mean? is this normal with bodybuilder? Im bout to start my cycle of Dbol and Test E nd i wanna make sure everything checks out b4 i start

Need as much imput as possible!!

That is not elevated. I am assuming that is ALT.

The reference range changes from lab to lab as well.



Lifting weights can elevate your liver enzymes.

Eating can elevate ALT. Alcohol, aspirin and paracetamol elevates GGT at the drop of a hat.

Your potassium is normal. 3.5 mmol/L is the lower end of the normal scale.

Also just so you know, taking the one or two analytes out of the lot of the tests is not how clinicians look for health or pathology.

You have to look at the whole picture.

 

[bodybuilder63]

Yea its alt i dont drink or smoke and i don't cheat on my diet no added ne thing i eat plain whole foods 100% of the time jus taking protein, creatine, and arginine

So i should be fine to start the dbol and test e im taking milk thistle n liv-52 on cycle

 

[centeroiler]

I use Liv 52 DS. It helped bring my liver values back down from the dead when I finally quit drinking for good. Good quality milk thistle (standardized Silymarin), picroliv and some NAC are good too. I want to try injectable Essentiale Forte. I've read very good things. RxHealth carries it (no I don't work for them, just mentioning it).

 

[LiquidPhire]

To be honest, Milk thistle has been stated as being "not enough" to bring liver enzymes to normal range. But Tylers liver detox has the proven ingredients to drop them and many people I know use this. I just ordered my first bottle of it and am running it now don't wanna know the damage ive caused over the years of pain pills etc.. Anyway good luck to you.

 

[centeroiler]

To be honest, Milk thistle has been stated as being "not enough" to bring liver enzymes to normal range. But Tylers liver detox has the proven ingredients to drop them and many people I know use this. I just ordered my first bottle of it and am running it now don't wanna know the damage ive caused over the years of pain pills etc.. Anyway good luck to you.

Milk thistle is inexpensive. I would use it in addition to Liv 52 DS, not instead of it. Is Tyler's just a rip off of Liv 52? Somebody told me that, but I never saw the ingredients.

 

[timtim]

like tatyana said, youre fine. liver enzymes will read high due to stress from training. i wouldnt use orals in any case though.

 

[bodybuilder63]

So even if i run dbol with liv-52 and milk thistle it will still damage my Liver?

 

[lilone888]

I just got blood tests done also and mine were high. 19 y/o male and haven't used aas or anything, must be from training..

 

[timtim]

So even if i run dbol with liv-52 and milk thistle it will still damage my Liver?

youre most likely not doing damage to begin with. using the orals would put extrinsic stress on the liver though, which wouldnt be helpful. the supps wont do much.

 

[bodybuilder63]

Yea i already got the dbol im only running it for 4 weeks then its all test and hcg till week 12 my liver should be fine

 

[centeroiler]

youre most likely not doing damage to begin with. using the orals would put extrinsic stress on the liver though, which wouldnt be helpful. the supps wont do much.

Liv 52 has countless studies dating back to the 1950's showing its efficacy at protecting the liver from toxic compounds. I have personally used it and saw, first hand, the dramatic improvement made to my liver profile. His profile isn't that bad anyway, but Liv 52 will help.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I've used Tyler's and Liv52 numerous times, and never got satisfactory reduction of my liver enzymes....

Next time around, I'm trying something simple: N-A-C and r-ALA - both seem to have far more objective studies showing liver protection

 

[bodybuilder63]

Wen i come off the dbol the test e wont hav a significan effect on my liver right

 

[njmuscleguy]

even injectables affect liver enzymes...though not nearly as much as orals (particularly dbol)

 

[bodybuilder63]

Yea imma take liv 52 n milk thistle throughout my entire cycle than

 

[Tatyana]

10 units above the reference range is not high.

That could be normal in another lab.

 

[centeroiler]

Everyone has different results from different products. You have to find out for yourself what works. Your values may not be that high and nothing is going to protect you completely. But, Liv 52 or milk thistle, etc. is cheap insurance and better than nothing at all. I want to try Essentiale Forte, which ia a pharma grade liver protector that comes in caps or injectable. RxHealth has it. But my values are great right now using Liv 52 and Milk Thistle so why mess with it?

 

[LiquidPhire]

Yes Liv52 is similar I can post the ingredients of Tylers if you'd like to compare (I'd like to see for myself as I was going to go with Liv52 myself) I am sure they are both great products and to each his own ya know? Ive just heard/read that Milk Thistle isn't as good and can affect protein synthesis in a negative fashion. How true is this? I don't know just from what I have heard.

 

[needtogetaas]

I just got blood tests done also and mine were high. 19 y/o male and haven't used aas or anything, must be from training..

interesting

 

[bodybuilder63]

What's different about Essentiale Forte that makes it better than liv-52 or milk thistle

 

[lilone888]

I got the numbers for my blood test.
AST is 80
ALT is 69
and CK is 1494... everything else was in the normal range..
how are these?

 

[Big_Joe]

Doesn't anybody use pubmed??? There are not countless studies done on liv52 there are 59. And many, if not most of them, were done at the R & D Centre, Himalaya Drug Company, Bangalore, India. These are the people that make and sell liv52. Also if you check where the other studies were done you will find that they are almost all done in India. Liv52 is an ayurvedic medicine. There is a great deal of national pride is at work here. There is one article that was not done in India. It is a case of a man that got a Toxic epidermal necrolysis (Lyell's syndrome) after administration of Liv 52. The article is in Russian so there is no abstract but people die from this syndrome.

If you think that you can put something "bad" into your body then by putting something "good" into your body it will balance out your being stupid. We then compound the situation by showing that what one thought was "good" is, in actuality, ineffective or at worse harmful.

I used to try very hard on this forum to stop stupid people from injuring themselves with crap they ingest. I have come to realize I was wrong. Stupid people should be encouraged to put ingest as much crap as they can afford. This will put money in the hands of the people that make the stuff so they can make more. And, more importantly, the stupid people will die off so that they can't pass on their genes. Darwin lives.

 

[njmuscleguy]

big_joe: *laugH* viscious, but true

 

[centeroiler]

Big_Joe, here you go again completely talking out of you ass and hurling insults(at me). Where the hell do you come off calling people on this forum "stupid", when I haven't seen you post even one remotely intelligent thing on here? If anyone wants to see a case study in stupidity, they needn't look any further than your last, completely assinine post on liver supplememnts.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...ids-you-need-take-save-your-liver-643295.html

Your complete lack of knowledge and critical thinking ability in this thread is painfully apparent. You wouldn't even come back on to explain your ridiculous statements. The notion of spicy foods killing your liver is laughable and I still feel "dumber" for having read it.

Hurling insults and calling everybody else "stupid" on this forum is even more ridiculous coming from a guy that pumps 2grams of Testosterone into his body every week without the Estradiol removed. So you also shoot 200mg of Estradiol a week and we're the stupid ones???

Liv 52 has been used by bodybuilders for years with good effect. Stop talking out your ass and insulting people. Joe, you calling other people stupid is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.

Doesn't anybody use pubmed??? There are not countless studies done on liv52 there are 59. And many, if not most of them, were done at the R & D Centre, Himalaya Drug Company, Bangalore, India. These are the people that make and sell liv52. Also if you check where the other studies were done you will find that they are almost all done in India. Liv52 is an ayurvedic medicine. There is a great deal of national pride is at work here. There is one article that was not done in India. It is a case of a man that got a Toxic epidermal necrolysis (Lyell's syndrome) after administration of Liv 52. The article is in Russian so there is no abstract but people die from this syndrome.

If you think that you can put something "bad" into your body then by putting something "good" into your body it will balance out your being stupid. We then compound the situation by showing that what one thought was "good" is, in actuality, ineffective or at worse harmful.

I used to try very hard on this forum to stop stupid people from injuring themselves with crap they ingest. I have come to realize I was wrong. Stupid people should be encouraged to put ingest as much crap as they can afford. This will put money in the hands of the people that make the stuff so they can make more. And, more importantly, the stupid people will die off so that they can't pass on their genes. Darwin lives.

 

[bodybuilder63]

Good post Centeroiler

 

[dmc777]

Everyone has different results from different products. You have to find out for yourself what works. Your values may not be that high and nothing is going to protect you completely. But, Liv 52 or milk thistle, etc. is cheap insurance and better than nothing at all. I want to try Essentiale Forte, which ia a pharma grade liver protector that comes in caps or injectable. RxHealth has it. But my values are great right now using Liv 52 and Milk Thistle so why mess with it?

I got me some of that Essential Forte from Rx bro. I did 6 weeks of Dbol 50mgs daily! I took Milk thistle and Liv52 daily but I'm know my liver is prob stilly pretty messed up right now. I'll start the forte Monday and run it for a month. Will get blood test done and let you know how it worked. As for the guy who started the post, I didn't read the whole thread but one of the worst things for your liver is tylenol! If you take tylenol or any nsaids they're bound to screw with your liver. If you take painkiller, ex. Lortab...chances are theres atleast 500mgs of tylenol in it. Just a little fyi. But I'd go ahead and take the Dbol. It's sitting in front of you so you know you're going to do it anyway lol!

 

[RottenWillow]

AST and ALT are a rather quick and dirty assessment of liver health. You can have pretty heinous hepatic issues and show normal enzyme levels, and you can high quite high ast and alt and have a healthy liver with just transitory elevations. Get a comprehensive liver panel.

 

[Tatyana]

I got the numbers for my blood test.
AST is 80
ALT is 69
and CK is 1494... everything else was in the normal range..
how are these?

I keep telling the lads that it is important to look at all the results.

AND INCLUDE UNITS, as while I know everyone more or less uses IU/L for enzymes, it isn't always the case. Units are essential.

Otherwise it is like saying, I have 8 to sell. 8 what?


There are very few things in clinical biochemistry or haematology that are diagnostic. One higher level of any one parameter doesn't necessary diagnose anything, you have to look at patterns within the total.



Your AST and ALT are slightly elevated. AST is often elevated due to higher blood pressure, it is also present in heart tissue.

ALT while considered a liver enzyme, is not specific to the liver.

Your CK is from muscle, it is elevated due to training.

 

[FunFun]

So even if i run dbol with liv-52 and milk thistle it will still damage my Liver?

I don't know if "damage" is the correct term. If you abuse C-17 alkylated oral steroids such as dianabol (take them for too long at too high a dose) then eventually your bile flow from the liver will stop. This is called drug induced cholestasis of the liver if you want to read up about it. As far as I know, once you stop using the orals, after weeks or months of suffering (I've had this), the liver returns to normal. I've never seen any studies showing permanent damage.

Having said that, your ALT is within normal parameters for some laboratories and not far off the high end of normal of most others. You shouldn't be alarmed unless it is 3 or 4 times the high end of normal. I'd be more interested in knowing your total and direct bilirubin levels, because they can show early signs of cholestasis and the resultant jaundice.

I don't think you should be concerned about using dianabol for only 4 weeks at sane dosages. If you really are worried, have your liver enzymes checked again 2 weeks into your course, but make sure you have bilirubin checked too.

Do you have an AST result?

 

[bodybuilder63]

No just the alt my doctor is wac bro i asked her for a complete liver evaluation and complete bloodwork done and she only measured the alt for my liver i recently switched doctors so next time i get bloodwork done ill have my bilrubin leves tested. Does steroids affect your bilrubin leves? should i get it tested after i complete my pct?

 

[centeroiler]

lol. i am probably one of the least angry people you will ever come across.

LOL. Okay then, how about sarcastic, augumentative and insulting? There are other ways to make your opinion known without ranting about how smart you are, and then resorting to calling others "stupid".

These types of "delusions of grandeur" are usually reserved for REAL Medical Doctors. Have you walked on water lately, Joe? LMAO.

 

[FunFun]

Does steroids affect your bilrubin leves? should i get it tested after i complete my pct?

Most definitely (steroids can affect your bilirubin levels).

Although it's highly unlikely you're going to have any problems to worry about with only a 4 week course of dianabol, the bilirubin levels can be very indicative of a pending problem caused specifically by oral anabolic steroids (ie. Cholestasis of the liver) when they are only slightly elevated, whereas AST and ALT even at double the normal levels don't tell you anything specific.

Cholestasis is the text book sickness caused by excessive C-17 alkylated steroid use. It results in blocked bile flow from the liver, in which case your bilirubin levels will go through the roof. At even a moderately elevated level of bilirubin you'll probably be jaundiced (yellow eyes and skin, clay colored stool). I had severe pruritus (systemic itching) even before I displayed yellow skin and eyes. This is all related to excessive bilirubin accumulating in the skin instead of being excreted through the small intestine via bile flow from the liver.

As I said, a 4 week course is unlikely to cause any problems. If you really want to know how much a short course affected your liver enzymes and in particular your bilirubin levels, get them checked after your course and post them up here. Unless you're injecting huge quantities of testosterone, it shouldn't have any negative effect on your liver.

 

[bodybuilder63]

yea im just doing 450 mg per week its my first cycle but i dont think ill have problems along with liv-52 and milk thistle im taking primrose oil, C0Q10, toco-8,fish oil, vitamin e, and saw palmetto to keep healthy so i don't think ill have any problems

 

[sammy5]

Just some information I wanted to share...

Dianabol will cause potassium levels to increase. It is called hyperkalemia. (Just in case anyone is wondering why their porassium levels are high post-cycle)

Likewise, besides Dianabol being highly aromatic it also causes increased potassium levels [as I just said lol]. So now your kidneys have all this extra potassium they needs to excrete and likewise won't be able to excrete as much sodium as usual. This offsets your electrolyte balance and causes extra water retention (caused by the retaining of sodium).

You'll need to increase your fluid intake to assist your kidneys in extreting the extra potassium. This will then lead to your sodium levels returning to normal and less water retention This is why people always say the more water you drink on cycle --> the drier you are.

Just thought I'd share for no apparent reason lol