Dying for your Country

[ringperm]

After reading a few threads on war and dying for your country on this board, I started to wonder if there is a difference dying defending your country, or dying attacking for your country.
For instance, if my country where being invaded by sweden, and I died in it's defence, would my sacrifice be greater than if I died as a part of an invading army set to conquer Sweden?
Or would my sacrifice be noble on both account, as long as my cause was just, and I believed I was doing the right thing?
Any thoughts?

 

[big_bad_buff]

this thread should be called "dying" because i dont see what you get out of dying for your country once your dead. no reason to die for anything. what the fuck is up with life? there is no difference from humans and animals....people shoule live free, no worries about money death ect. we should all be happy. there should be no such things as money, everyone works to eat, and that's all you need. think about it!! money is the route of all evil..there should be no killing, that it crazy

 

[Imnotdutch]

this thread should be called "dying" because i dont see what you get out of dying for your country once your dead. no reason to die for anything. what the fuck is up with life? there is no difference from humans and animals....people shoule live free, no worries about money death ect. we should all be happy. there should be no such things as money, everyone works to eat, and that's all you need. think about it!! money is the route of all evil..there should be no killing, that it crazy

There is no point in dying for your country? People should live free?


Those two statements do not stand well together. Fact of the matter is that in order for a country to remain free, sometimes it has to send people to fight and die.

"no reasont o die for anything"........lets say I somebody is about to try to kill your a member fo your family.....you could stop it happening but would risk death. Would you do it? Would defending them be a good reason to die?

 

[coldblue1955]

the only person i'll die for is God.

 

[Imnotdutch]

the only person i'll die for is God.

Then I feel sorry for you.........

Oh hang on.....wait.........since when was God a person?? Show this person to me.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Then I feel sorry for you.........

Oh hang on.....wait.........since when was God a person?? Show this person to me.

ahhh, good ole ad ignorantiam fallacy.... you're smarter than that, dutch:

 

[Robert Jan]

Fuck God. fuck him and fuck his son. I'd sooner believe in the easter bunny.


I think dying for your country is completely silly 95% of the time because 95% of the time these people are not really defending the freedom and life of those they care about, just that of liars who pretend to care about them.

 

[gonelifting]

For instance, if my country where being invaded by sweden, and I died in it's defence, would my sacrifice be greater than if I died as a part of an invading army set to conquer Sweden?
QUOTE]


Are we talking about each individual`s feelings or the whole politically correct attitude on war and heroism? Individually I would compare it (to simplify it) breaking into someones house because they robbed you and trying to beat them up, but they shoot you. or Being in your own house and a thief breaks in, you try to beat them up because of it and they shoot you.

OK that was a little stupid. I think "defending" on your soil is more noble.

 

[Imnotdutch]

ahhh, good ole ad ignorantiam fallacy.... you're smarter than that, dutch:

Just playing.

I stand by my first statement though. I feel sorry for anybody who values their friends and family so little that they would not even consider risking their lives for them.

 

[txarmyguy23]

the only person i'll die for is God.

kinda ironic to read this considering what I have been through in 6 almost 7 months of being here...If I had a dollar for every jackass that I have encountered that has decided to do just that I would be rich...No soldier wants to die for his country but Most of us are ready to accept that if need be...

I believe it was Patton that said no silly bastard did a damn thing dying for his country, make the enemy die for his

 

[gonelifting]

kinda ironic to read this considering what I have been through in 6 almost 7 months of being here...If I had a dollar for every jackass that I have encountered that has decided to do just that I would be rich...No soldier wants to die for his country but Most of us are ready to accept that if need be...

I believe it was Patton that said no silly bastard did a damn thing dying for his country, make the enemy die for his

So how would you answer that question that was asked, since you`re an Military guy? First off, no one wants to die but if you had to choose between the two. Would you rather die here on your own turf "defending" your country or on someone else`s turf "defending" your country?

I understand you may want to do "whatever is asked of you" but what is your personal feeling about "defending"?

 

[mountain muscle]

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country....He won it a war by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country

General George S. Patton

Here is a good link with the entire speech both sound and text...powerful stuff.

http://www.pattonhq.com/homeghq.html
Hope you're doing well Txarmyguy....

 

[Aerojaxx]

Guy I met at the gym is 26 years old...married with a four yo daughter and a 2 yo son...Around a month ago he went and enlisted in the Army...he claims there are no problems at home...he loves his children...he has a very good job...

When I asked him what motivated him to go join the Army, he stated, "I want to serve my country..."

Needless to say I was very shocked...He will leaving for training in a month and has already been told that there is a 90% chance that he will be deployed...

What he has done takes courage however, I believe he has a much larger commitment to his wife and children than spilling his blood for the country...

 

[txarmyguy23]

To me if I were to die defending my country back in the U.S. would be the same as if I were killed here defending it...But I also think that if shit hit the fan and I was dying for it back in the states then we didn't do Dick while we were here and the end of our nation would probably be sealed

aerojaxx I agree his biger responsibility is to his wife and kids no doubt, if he felt his calling was to join then god bless him and his faimly, good luck to them all cause he will be gone to war no doubt. By the time I get home I will have a wife and newborn son, 1st and foremost I will be taking care of them, if the army doesn't like it then I guess I'll pay that consequence, but once my 4 years is up then I'm done period...If I get stopped loss then I will be putting in a 4187 to protest every week or month since I dont see the inactive ready reserve getting called up to fight, stop loss is the one thing that pisses me off the most. You serve your country, do your time who the fuck are they to tell you that you have to continue being a soldier if they aren't willing to call back others that wanted out too...

but that arguement is neither here nor there...

back to defending...I feel that i'm here in afghanistan and I'm fighting so that others can be free and that these people here might get a taste of that and decide to do shit for themselves since they aren't capable of doing much...I would rather fight here then have to do so on U.S. soil since the risks would be much greater to fight in the U.S. then to fight here where people just dont really give a shit if their neighbor is killed or what happens...Seriously though 90% of these people Just dont give a shit, they know about Sept 11 and know why we are here and respect that...The 10% of the people who do give a shit are willing to fight by our side to better their nation knowing that not only do we help the U.S. be we in turn are helping them....

This place is overall pretty crazy, it's made me re-think some opinions I had of the world and the possibilities if people could learn to get along, but after seeing this place and it's people I know the likelyhood of that in my lifetime or the next 10 generations after me are slim to none...They can't fathom how good we have things with the ability to make our own choices it's just not something they understand in general

as for my personal feelings on defending I think it's every Americans Earned and GOD given right to defend their nation, by defending I'm not just limiting that to being in the military, but actively taking part in their community to keep it safe/ and or to see that it stays safe, Seeking to remove those that wish to cause it harm weather its petty crime or with drugs being pushed out to kids. I guess Actually giving a damn abotu your fellow man and neighbor is what I consider defending, cause without caring about your neighbor or your community your no better off then these poor bastards who would rather kill each other for our scraps. I think americans need a better dose of cleaning up after themselves and taking care of our own, then after we take care of our own I think we will do a better job when it comes to dealing with the scum that wish to terrorize our nation

 

[Imnotdutch]

I suspect that the reason that those people dont appear to give a shit is that death has been an accepted part of their lives for generations. I am sure they reflect on it but just dont react in the way might in the US or UK might.

I agree that world peace wont be happening anytime soon........that will only happen when human nature changes and we learn to accept our differences and to stop interfering in other peoles business. What business does the west have in trying to change another countries culture?

To me if I were to die defending my country back in the U.S. would be the same as if I were killed here defending it...But I also think that if shit hit the fan and I was dying for it back in the states then we didn't do Dick while we were here and the end of our nation would probably be sealed

aerojaxx I agree his biger responsibility is to his wife and kids no doubt, if he felt his calling was to join then god bless him and his faimly, good luck to them all cause he will be gone to war no doubt. By the time I get home I will have a wife and newborn son, 1st and foremost I will be taking care of them, if the army doesn't like it then I guess I'll pay that consequence, but once my 4 years is up then I'm done period...If I get stopped loss then I will be putting in a 4187 to protest every week or month since I dont see the inactive ready reserve getting called up to fight, stop loss is the one thing that pisses me off the most. You serve your country, do your time who the fuck are they to tell you that you have to continue being a soldier if they aren't willing to call back others that wanted out too...

but that arguement is neither here nor there...

back to defending...I feel that i'm here in afghanistan and I'm fighting so that others can be free and that these people here might get a taste of that and decide to do shit for themselves since they aren't capable of doing much...I would rather fight here then have to do so on U.S. soil since the risks would be much greater to fight in the U.S. then to fight here where people just dont really give a shit if their neighbor is killed or what happens...Seriously though 90% of these people Just dont give a shit, they know about Sept 11 and know why we are here and respect that...The 10% of the people who do give a shit are willing to fight by our side to better their nation knowing that not only do we help the U.S. be we in turn are helping them....

This place is overall pretty crazy, it's made me re-think some opinions I had of the world and the possibilities if people could learn to get along, but after seeing this place and it's people I know the likelyhood of that in my lifetime or the next 10 generations after me are slim to none...They can't fathom how good we have things with the ability to make our own choices it's just not something they understand in general

as for my personal feelings on defending I think it's every Americans Earned and GOD given right to defend their nation, by defending I'm not just limiting that to being in the military, but actively taking part in their community to keep it safe/ and or to see that it stays safe, Seeking to remove those that wish to cause it harm weather its petty crime or with drugs being pushed out to kids. I guess Actually giving a damn abotu your fellow man and neighbor is what I consider defending, cause without caring about your neighbor or your community your no better off then these poor bastards who would rather kill each other for our scraps. I think americans need a better dose of cleaning up after themselves and taking care of our own, then after we take care of our own I think we will do a better job when it comes to dealing with the scum that wish to terrorize our nation

 

[Aerojaxx]

To me if I were to die defending my country back in the U.S. would be the same as if I were killed here defending it...But I also think that if shit hit the fan and I was dying for it back in the states then we didn't do Dick while we were here and the end of our nation would probably be sealed

aerojaxx I agree his biger responsibility is to his wife and kids no doubt, if he felt his calling was to join then god bless him and his faimly, good luck to them all cause he will be gone to war no doubt. By the time I get home I will have a wife and newborn son, 1st and foremost I will be taking care of them, if the army doesn't like it then I guess I'll pay that consequence, but once my 4 years is up then I'm done period...If I get stopped loss then I will be putting in a 4187 to protest every week or month since I dont see the inactive ready reserve getting called up to fight, stop loss is the one thing that pisses me off the most. You serve your country, do your time who the fuck are they to tell you that you have to continue being a soldier if they aren't willing to call back others that wanted out too...

but that arguement is neither here nor there...

back to defending...I feel that i'm here in afghanistan and I'm fighting so that others can be free and that these people here might get a taste of that and decide to do shit for themselves since they aren't capable of doing much...I would rather fight here then have to do so on U.S. soil since the risks would be much greater to fight in the U.S. then to fight here where people just dont really give a shit if their neighbor is killed or what happens...Seriously though 90% of these people Just dont give a shit, they know about Sept 11 and know why we are here and respect that...The 10% of the people who do give a shit are willing to fight by our side to better their nation knowing that not only do we help the U.S. be we in turn are helping them....

This place is overall pretty crazy, it's made me re-think some opinions I had of the world and the possibilities if people could learn to get along, but after seeing this place and it's people I know the likelyhood of that in my lifetime or the next 10 generations after me are slim to none...They can't fathom how good we have things with the ability to make our own choices it's just not something they understand in general

as for my personal feelings on defending I think it's every Americans Earned and GOD given right to defend their nation, by defending I'm not just limiting that to being in the military, but actively taking part in their community to keep it safe/ and or to see that it stays safe, Seeking to remove those that wish to cause it harm weather its petty crime or with drugs being pushed out to kids. I guess Actually giving a damn abotu your fellow man and neighbor is what I consider defending, cause without caring about your neighbor or your community your no better off then these poor bastards who would rather kill each other for our scraps. I think americans need a better dose of cleaning up after themselves and taking care of our own, then after we take care of our own I think we will do a better job when it comes to dealing with the scum that wish to terrorize our nation

You are a hell of a guy...the kind our nation cannot afford to lose...come home safe bor...

 

[javaguru]

IMO, military service, particularly a volunteer force during conflict, is a single man's profession. From the founding of the US Army in 1775 until the 1970's that was the case. The culture is not "family friendly" with long deployments and the type of mental stress a soldier undrgoes during prolonged combat operations can make a difficult situation even worse on his return. I respect the desire to serve but a married man with children would better serve his country by taking care of his family and raising his children with strong values. Leave the dying to the single guys who don't have a family depending on them, which is a bigger responsibility than bringing "American Values" to a foreign country.

 

[HS Lifter]

ahhh, good ole ad ignorantiam fallacy.... you're smarter than that, dutch:

It looks like you have really been paying attention in your Critical thinking and logic classes. Good job.