Do you have to be FAT to gain muscle?

[SSAlexSS]

Good topic Alex. I think that doctors theory refers to people who have been getting fat for long periods of time unlike bodybuilders who overeat and workout for a much shorter span then your everday fat fuck. Ive never used AS but I know for a fact that I could not put on a pound without overeating especially since ive been working out for almost 2 years. I look at it like this. The same thing that gives you fat gives you muscle. In other words if your scale doesnt tip into positive territory then common sense would tell you that your not gaining muscle or fat. I mean why would I bust my ass in the gym to gain maybe 1/2 a pound of muscle a year. What a waste of time. Opinions may differ but most 95% of experienced lifters know that food is key to maximum anabolism with drug use or not. If you can control your diet then overeating is great. Besides what the hell is wrong with eating alot. Sometimes I find it better then sex. I love to eat and thats probably why I like to workout as well since my diet has given me good results.
FAT=WEIGHT
MUSCLE=WEIGHT

Godd reply Y11.

BUT to gain 10 pounds in 1 year you dont have to eat that much anyways.,...
(1-4 extra protein per day and ONLY 16 calories above your maintenace)
Lets do math. 10 pounds of LEAN muscle per year is a reasonable goal (even though not even everyone can achieve it). 1 pound of muscle contains 600 calories, so to gain 6000 calories in a YEAR (365 days) you would need to eat 6000/365 = 16 calories per day over your maintainance needs! 16 extra calories per day means that only 4 extra grams of protein is needed!!! (1 gram of protein = 4 calories. 16/4=4). It certainly isnt eat 20 meals per day, or being a regular at McDonalds.

and maintance for MOST people shouldnt be much over 2000-3000 calories per day. So why not eat 3 plain meals per day and grow LEAN FAT FREE muscle? (Each meal would need to be approximately 666-1000 calories, which isnt much to digest).

Protein Requirments: 4 extra protein grams per day to grow muscle. Most calories should come from carbs anyways, to spare protein for real purpose - muscle building.

Anyone can counter it? What is the purpose of
eating every 2-3 hours? Anyone can reply?
reply please! I am confused!

 

[Belial]

But this is assuming that muscles ONLY require enough amino acids to build more contractile proteins.... The process of building muscle is much more complicated than simply saying "4 grams of protein will build 4 grams of muscle".

Think of building a house... The bricks themselves may be what the house is made of, but there's a tremendous amount of energy that goes into actually putting the bricks together in a shape roughly resembling a domicile... An extra four grams of protein a day is certainly not enough to provide energy for muscle repair, muscle contraction (i.e., BCAAs), prevention of catabolism (maintaining a positive nitrogen balance, etc.), let alone hypertrophy.

I absolutely believe in lean bulking. I started out at 148, 4%... I'm currently at 214, 8%. This is the "fattest" I've ever been, but considering the gains, I've never truly "bulked and cut". I don't believe it's necessary... My caloric surplus is roughly 600 kcal a day, slightly more when I was stagnating. This is the method I'd recommend to ANYONE trying to gain weight....

So it's possible, but 16 extra calories a day is NOT enough to gain muscle.

 

[SSAlexSS]

But this is assuming that muscles ONLY require enough amino acids to build more contractile proteins.... The process of building muscle is much more complicated than simply saying "4 grams of protein will build 4 grams of muscle".

Think of building a house... The bricks themselves may be what the house is made of, but there's a tremendous amount of energy that goes into actually putting the bricks together in a shape roughly resembling a domicile... An extra four grams of protein a day is certainly not enough to provide energy for muscle repair, muscle contraction (i.e., BCAAs), prevention of catabolism (maintaining a positive nitrogen balance, etc.), let alone hypertrophy.

I absolutely believe in lean bulking. I started out at 148, 4%... I'm currently at 214, 8%. This is the "fattest" I've ever been, but considering the gains, I've never truly "bulked and cut". I don't believe it's necessary... My caloric surplus is roughly 600 kcal a day, slightly more when I was stagnating. This is the method I'd recommend to ANYONE trying to gain weight....

So it's possible, but 16 extra calories a day is NOT enough to gain muscle.

yeh. well using the same brick example. A construction worker requires 4000 bricks ot build a wall. He doesnt need 40,000 bricks, he doesnt need 4005 bricks and he doesnt need 4001 bricks. He needs exactly 4000 bricks, and more bricks wouldnt make him work faster or do better!

also most people eat enough food to cover those meager energy requirements to build muscle!

 

[Belial]

yeh. well using the same brick example. A construction worker requires 4000 bricks ot build a wall. He doesnt need 40,000 bricks, he doesnt need 4005 bricks and he doesnt need 4001 bricks. He needs exactly 4000 bricks, and more bricks wouldnt make him work faster or do better!

Yes, but this is NOT an exact science. What if the guy only has 3,000 bricks? Better to have too many than too few, unless you know your EXACTLY daily caloric expenditure, which is almost impossible to assess. Most people would rather overshoot by a little, and put on a little fat, rather than end up spinning their wheels and not making progress because they've misjudged their requirements.

those meager energy requirements to build muscle!

They are NOT meager. Building large amounts of muscle is actually an unnatural adaptation... muscles are meant to adapt to environmental stimuli, and the body is built for this, but skeletal muscle is a terrible energy hog. Lifting is a tremendous strain on the body, and building muscle likewise uses a huge amount of resources. The body also does not WANT to hold on to muscle... what gets dropped first in times of famine? Yep.

To say the requirements are meager....well... there is NO truth to that whatsoever. If most people ate enough, 90% of people in most gyms wouldn't be skinny little "hardgainers" who haven't progressed since they joined. While I agree that for natural athletes these ridiculously high calorie diets are overkill, I do believe that many people don't realize how many resources the body needs to gain even a single pound of muscle.

 

[SSAlexSS]

Yes, but this is NOT an exact science. What if the guy only has 3,000 bricks? Better to have too many than too few, unless you know your EXACTLY daily caloric expenditure, which is almost impossible to assess. Most people would rather overshoot by a little, and put on a little fat, rather than end up spinning their wheels and not making progress because they've misjudged their requirements.




They are NOT meager. Building large amounts of muscle is actually an unnatural adaptation... muscles are meant to adapt to environmental stimuli, and the body is built for this, but skeletal muscle is a terrible energy hog. Lifting is a tremendous strain on the body, and building muscle likewise uses a huge amount of resources. The body also does not WANT to hold on to muscle... what gets dropped first in times of famine? Yep.

To say the requirements are meager....well... there is NO truth to that whatsoever. If most people ate enough, 90% of people in most gyms wouldn't be skinny little "hardgainers" who haven't progressed since they joined. While I agree that for natural athletes these ridiculously high calorie diets are overkill, I do believe that many people don't realize how many resources the body needs to gain even a single pound of muscle.

Good reply, I am to overshooting the goal...

BUT the amount of muscle that you put in a day is meager (12 grams!!!!!)

How much energy would you need to put 12 grams on your body!
7 or so grams of whish is water (o calories) .!!!

 

[Jabs]

The best thing I have done to gain muscle is to eat constantly. I make sure I eat enough protein,calories and in between I eat anything I can. When I tried cutting my bodyfat down I lost a lot of muscle. I stayed away from fruit do to its sugar content. I lost a lot of fat but I lost a lot of muscle too. To gain it back I chowed protein all the time. I have gained 15lbs in a short period of time but I also lost my abs. My plan is not to worry about what I eat as long as I get enough protein things have been going really well. I hate losing my abs but my strength is increasing every work out. I worry about my abs when summer comes around.

jabs

 

[CONTRACTION]

In MY experience, I did not gain the muscular physique that I desired until I increased my calories. Sure my bodyfat went up, but I'm happy with 9%-10%. As soon as I attempt to lean out and go below 8%, I start losing muscle fast...regardless of protein intake increases. The body just needs more than increased protein intake to build mass.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

SS - I don't know if I can offer you any help with this, as I am trying to figure this out myself.

I have a friend who has an incredible physique, is strong as hell, and for his first couple of years of training he tried to eat almost 0% fat (he now eats around 20-25% I think). Also worth noting is that this guy has almost no body hair or facial hair and he has always trained 100% natural -- I mention this because of the concerns people seem to have about fat and testosterone levels. He always has maintained a very ripped look, and just gained the muscle a little at a time.

I think much of the concerns you hear stem from people not liking the "smaller" look opf being ripped and feeling like they have lost too much strength and size getting there. It's certainly easier to lift more while eating huge, and you definetely will gain the MOST muscle this way, but whats the point if you have to lose it back and then some down the road just to look good. Lee Priest makes me laugh the way he gets to be such a fat-ass for 4-5 lbs of muscle a year. You would think that someone with such a staggering physique would want to look good year round.

Good luck.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Eating for muscle growth isn't entirely an issue of providing muscular building blocks. The food you eat causes a hormonal response that is also responsible for anabolic status. Look at some of the most anabolic molecules in the body such as testosterone and IGF. They provide no calories. Does overeating stimulate the release of anabolic compounds? There seems to be evidence to that fact as overeating is anabolic to fat tissue, but is it anabolic to muscle tissue?

 

[nacius]

fat to a bodybuilder is probably not considered fat to the average person. keep that in mind