Do martial arts cause legal troubles?

[megamania500]

Could martial arts knowledge get you into legal trouble? Consider this hypothetical scenario: A martial artist is in a bar with friends drinking a soda. Someone drunk off his ass comes over and starts to get belligerent with the martial artist. After trying to talk his way out of it for some time, the martial artist attempts to leave the bar, only to have the drunk follow him to the parking lot. Others follow out of curiosity, while the bartender calls the police out of concern for the harrassed patron.
Once outside, the martial artist gets teased and pushed around a bit more by the drunk in front of the crowd of onlookers. Letting pride and anger get the best of him, the martial artist pushes the drunk. The drunk takes a swing, the martial artist counters with a takedown. Just as the police pull up, the martial artist breaks the drunk's arm with an armlock.
The police arrest both people for fighting, and they take statements from the witnesses. The witnesses all tell the same story of the drunk guy relentlessly asking for it. So the police charge the drunk with assault. The drunk did, however, end up with a broken arm, so the martial art guy will also be charged with assault.
In court, the judge hears the story. He has to decide to go ahead with charging the martial arts guy with assault, or if it was self defense.

So the question is, if the judge found out if the martial arts guy was knowledgeable in self-defense, would that affect is decision?

The reason why I'm asking is because I heard of some MMA fighter getting like 3 years in prison for a road rage incident. The judge concluded that the MMA fighter's hands were deadly weapons, so he threw the book at the guy. If that same judge had no knowledge whatsoever about the guy's history of training in MMA, could the outcome may have been different?

Do many of you keep your training habits to yourself to reduce your chances of having something like this happen?

I know my story probably has alot of flaws in it, so don't waste time nitpicking it apart. Instead, do you think, or KNOW, if a court goes down harder on someone if it knows that they have martial arts knowledge?

 

[dgatehouse]

It really depends on the judge. A person's body can be considered a weapon but it doesn't matter if they really know martial arts, boxing, or are the size of Shaq. In a case like that the smart thing to do is to request a jury. It's not hard to find someone who agrees the dude was a jerk and got what he deserved and you only need one.

State laws differ though. I live in Florida and they changed the law and it goes into effect this weekend that if you're "in fear for your life" you can do anything. So if the drunk guy had said he was going to kill me and I thought he was some weirdo who might have a gun or knife than it's my right to do what I need to protect myself. Which includes using martial arts or just pulling out a gun and shooting him right there. I don't think I'll ever move

 

[Judo Tom]

being involved in MA should only help.

you should be more focused in a real situation
you should not panic
you should think clearly
you hopefully train w/ some LE folks


if you keep your cool and act rationally you will be ok.. dont be a hothead w/ something to prove and the training will help you

 

[foobar]

I have a couple of lawyers that I take KM with and they say that as long as you can establish that you tried to talk your way out of the incident first, you're golden.

In other words, if you're in a crowded bar and some jackass starts something and you raise your hands in a defensive openhand position and say loudly, "I don't want to fight you" so that you have plenty of witnesses that can attest that you weren't trying to egg it on, you're probably in the clear. Don't throw the first punch and don't beat the crap out of the guy once he's no longer a threat.

 

[Judo Tom]

you gotta be careful giving general advice about that.

laws can differ greatly from state to state.

throwing the first punch does not make anyone guilty.. its normally the actions before the punch that determine guilt

you have to be able to control the amount of force you are using. if someone pushes you can can hurt them but you can not kill them

always tell the cops you feared for your life not worried about getting hurt or embarassed.

you could always call the local pd and ask if someone can come in and give a lil speech about the law in exchange for some free lessons.. its a good thing to have some LE personnel as part of your club for MANY reason.

 

[Kane Fan]

it depends on the judge really
if you luck out and get a Conservative Judge your fine he'll usually be like well that guy was asking for it
if you get a Liberal he'll probubly throw the book at you thinking that since your a better fighter you could have easily restrained the man trying to hurt you w/out any danger to yourself
the problem with that is either way the Judge is totally ignorant unless he has training similar to yours...
but yes if you are a martial artist and you bust someone up in self defenc eyou'll have a rougher time whoever the judge is then if you had no training and just happend to win
often times tho if it's really clear who was in the right and wrong the cops won't even file charges against the innocent guy so it never gets to the Judge for him to screw you
like on an episode of Cops where they show up and this guy had KO'd someone he saw breaking into his Grandmothers house
so the cops took the guy away and left the grandkid alone
same thing with some guy that was abusing his wife
his son came out of the shower slapped him around a little then went back in the shower
he called the cops and was like man I beat up my wife and my kid hit me I want him arrested so the cops took him away and left the kid there to lol

 

[Kane Fan]

It really depends on the judge. A person's body can be considered a weapon but it doesn't matter if they really know martial arts, boxing, or are the size of Shaq. In a case like that the smart thing to do is to request a jury. It's not hard to find someone who agrees the dude was a jerk and got what he deserved and you only need one.

State laws differ though. I live in Florida and they changed the law and it goes into effect this weekend that if you're "in fear for your life" you can do anything. So if the drunk guy had said he was going to kill me and I thought he was some weirdo who might have a gun or knife than it's my right to do what I need to protect myself. Which includes using martial arts or just pulling out a gun and shooting him right there. I don't think I'll ever move

dude Hurricane Me is going to have to come to Florida and stay!

 

[Kane Fan]

my friend is taking BJJ with some guy that trains the local cops
I imagine that will get him out of a speeding ticket one day or something
further it can be helpful to call in a cop to testify that "if he wanted to, he could have killed that guy" which will show the Jury or Judge that you definatly held back

 

[[email protected]]

Biggest thing i see with knowing martial arts and it comming up in a courtroom.....How much force was used and how much was needed

 

[Judo Tom]

yeah but you can testify that you are used to using force in a controlled envrionment. you can testify that you have thrown, armlocked and choked out people numerous times always using control and exercising great care for the safety of your training partners. you can state that you knew what you were doing. knew it would disable your attacker but that the level of force you used was in line with the threat you faced...

where as if you had no training and just threw a haymake that connected and hurt the guy you couldnt testify that you knew how much force you were using or knew what type of damage it would do.

you could point out that you had much much more damaging techniques but you chose not to use them because they are too deadly.. blah blah blah..

but bottom line is that you should talk the cops in your area and get the real deal. cops are going to be the ones showing up when you bash someones head in and best to know them or know what they are thinking and looking for. you should know how to deal w/ the cops as well as you know how to deal w/ your attackers...