Depressed.... need advice!

[lartinos]

Honestly, i have tried Forged Burner and it put me in a great mood! I dont know how but i always felt so good on it

There are nootropics added in which explains that feeling. Adderllin actually has even more so I would expect you would feel the same if not more on that as I know you have used both.

 

[wootoom]

There are nootropics added in which explains that feeling. Adderllin actually has even more so I would expect you would feel the same if not more on that as I know you have used both.

Yes bro, i might try them together!

 

[Zyglamail]

Testicular responsiveness to chronic human chorionic gonadotropin administration in hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

D'Agata R, Vicari E, Aliffi A, Maugeri G, Mongioi A, Gulizia S.

Steroidogenic responsiveness to long term hCG administration (1500 U three times a week for 23 months) was characterized in 8 males with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH). During hCG treatment, testosterone (T), which was in the prepuberal range under basal conditions, rose considerably to the upper end of the normal range and remained at that level during the 23 months of observation. A 2.5-fold increase was observed in serum levels of 17 beta-estradiol (E2) an increment less than seen with T. The increment in 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone was also lower than that in T throughout the study; thus, the 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone to T ratio, despite continuous hCG administration, remained low. Serum androstenedione was slightly increased during hCG therapy. No significant changes were observed in serum levels of dehydroepiandrosterone. These data indicate that continuous long term hCG administration stimulated T levels in HH, with a relatively small change in E2. The kinetics of the T and E2 responses to 2000 U hCG, evaluated after 23 months of therapy, indicated that the testicular response was markedly reduced. No increment in T levels was observed at 24 h; the maximal response occurred at 48 h. This pattern of T response supports the idea that partial testicular desensitization occurs in HH patients receiving chronic treatment with hCG.

You states HCG shut you down. The above study states....

During hCG treatment, testosterone (T), which was in the prepuberal range under basal conditions, rose considerably to the upper end of the normal range and remained at that level during the 23 months of observation.

This means the HCG was causing the testes to produce test, thats the opposite of shutting down.

Next, the test used 1500IU 3x weekly, thats 5X the dose I said to use 2x a week. Also this test was conducted over almost a 2 YEAR period of time.

Lastly they are basing the desensitization on the fact that going from 1500IU to 2000IU and that it did not cause an increase in T. I wont argue there can possibly be some desensitization to long term high dose HCG use but by the study they claim the 1500IU already raised normal T.... "rose considerably to the upper end of the normal range".

When T levels are already in the upper normal range who is to say that the reduced effect of additional HCG (ie going from a high 1500IU to 2000IU) wasnt simply due to other feedback mechanism already registering high T levels?

I stand by my original statement that if your on a cycle, that is what shut you down, not HCG use.

 

[lartinos]

Ya, I just know it did indeed happen to me.
Doseages used in studies don't necessarily mean that is the dose needed to shut you down.
I was also using the low dose three times a week which is a lot.
Either way it shut me down and has the potential to shut others down in my opinion.
It works much much better when used as the last ester clears for me as an individual.
For others who knows... But to be on the safe side I will continue to tell people to use it "my" way lol. People can read this thread and decide which route is best for them.
I'd love to see more studies done on this.
I haven't really seen them though.

 

[Zyglamail]

Ya, I just know it did indeed happen to me.
Doseages used in studies don't necessarily mean that is the dose needed to shut you down.

The study you posted clearly shows that HCG use INCREASED test production. That is not "shutting someone down". All of the other studies I have seen regarding HCG use echo the study you posted and all you have to go on is the size of your balls which is not a clinical indicator of test production and even if it was, you were taking in exo test which has also clearly in countless studies shown to shut down natural test production so what exactly are you basing your statements on?

I can understand if you feel it didnt work for you. I can understand why people claim long term/high dose use causes desensitization. What I cant understand is the logic behind your claims that HCG shuts down natural test production, there is no scientific or clinical evidence to back this up.

 

[lartinos]

It worked for awhile... Then ceased to work.
Testicular size would not have increased as it would if I haven't used it for awhile.
I am aware that this is not the 100% proof other than how I felt post cycle.
But seriously zyg, do you have any proof that using it on cycle means a speedier recovery post cycle. Or is this not the reason you want people to do it this way.

 

[Zyglamail]

It worked for awhile... Then ceased to work.
Testicular size would not have increased as it would if I haven't used it for awhile.
I am aware that this is not the 100% proof other than how I felt post cycle.
But seriously zyg, do you have any proof that using it on cycle means a speedier recovery post cycle. Or is this not the reason you want people to do it this way.

You just stated it worked for a while. If thats a worse case scenario, then that alone means you are shut down for a shorter period of time which I think everyone will agree is a good thing.

Its commonly accepted that everyone recovers at varying speeds and empirical evidence suggest that the longer one is shut down the longer it takes to recover. Based on that empirical evidence keeping the testes stimulated during a cycle, even if only for part of it means that at worse case your shut down for a shorter duration.

I will admit that HCG use during a cycle is likely a lot more effective for lower dose cycles (ie 500mg/wk test) than it is for someone stacking everything but the kitchen sink because of the bodies other feedback mechanisms but thats not really what your original stance on HCG was. You were blaming HCG for shutting down your testes and thats simply not the case.

Once again, if you feel its not worth running while on a cycle thats fine but lets place blame for you being shut down where it actually belongs, and that is on the AAS, not the HCG.

 

[lartinos]

I respectfully disagree. You're the smartest guy on the board now
And I always agree with you. This one time I cannot though.
It's was good chatting with you as always though bro.

 

[pumped5540]

I'm on my second day of HCGenerate and i'm feeling a lil more energy... I do believe you hit the nail in the nuts needto with it being a prolactin issue, Checked tracking and my forma will be in today. Planning on 5 pumps am and 5 pm & we'll see how things go from there! Thanks for all the help guys, I'll keep y'all updated

 

[R1 Psycho]

Hey bros,

As always, tons of top notch info here! Been away for a long time, work and life (wife!)
Anyways, this is a question to help out one of my bros....(and no really, its for a friend, not me! haha)
He finished a lengthy cycle of tren, test, deca, eq, and all without any PCT planned, at all!! (Completely against my advice the whole run)
I don't know how many times my advice was asked for, then kindly offered, and obviously NOT taken! Cycle was in large doses, and ran for about 5-6 months. I advised he get blood work pre and post, and still hasn't happened. He has been off now for about 1.5 - 2 months, NO PCT whatsoever!!!
In digging a bit deeper i have found out that he has been 'pretty much' off for that amount of time, but that there has been a couple times he has taken some test shots in an attempt to get back some drive etc.

To get to the point, he is totally SHUT down. He has no drive at all, major lethargy, no sex drive, feels super depressed, and is in some major regret now!

In reading these posts, it's looking like HCGenerate for sure. Then because of the Tren use, some Formastanzol too. Is that a safe bet, and good place to start?

I am trying to get him to get blood work done too....find out really where he's at.

Need to: He needs to know dosing schedule and products to order....Can you please send me some info at your next earliest convenience.....

Thanks huge in advance.... I know, it sounds like this guy kinda deserves this, but I just wanna help him out too ya know...

Cheers Bros!

R1...