Deadlifts&Squats Wont Progress!

[ExtraMile]

Both of them Im just not progressing and Im in the same place I was at xmas for squats and behind that on deadlifts, any ideas? SaiBoT suggested it might be my core, Iv started doing weighted core circuits but I never used to wear a belt and they never progresses a huge chunk at a time so there isnt any special reason my core might be behind, I thought I may be overtraining so I stopped deadlifting for a month and no change just ended up behind were I was before, maybe its my hamstrings as they are involved in both lifts but my RDL isnt very far at all behind my normal DL. Iv recently upped the frequency so I DL three times every two weeks instead of once a week and no change, Iv tryed using a belt on squats to see if i do better with my core taken out and still no real change.

Heres what I ate today as a typical example of my diet, Im trying to go a little lower on carbs especially later in the day as I want to loose some BF.

After Waking (9.30am)
3 slices melon
20g whey in 500ml milk
1 cup coffee
1 dose green tea extract

12.00pm
1 cup oats w/ 2 cups whole milk made into porridge
1 medium orange
2g fish oil
1 multivitamin

3.30pm
1 chicken breast w/ rice

5.20pm
1 apple
1 cup cofee
30g cheese
1 baby bell lol
2g fish oil

7.00pm (30 mins pre workout)
1 bowl cereal
20g whey in water
1 dose green tea extract

9.00pm (post workout)
few squares chocolate
8.5oz steak
small portion cous-cous
medium portion green beans & spring onion

11.00pm
300g cottage cheese
1 dose green tea extract
2g fish oil

maybe need a little more protein I know as thats only around 205g protein and Im around 175lb bodyweight so thats like 1.2xbodyweight...

Any ideas?

 

[Big_BK]

What rep range are you doing?

 

[SouthernLord]

Stop doing HIIT

 

[ExtraMile]

Rep Range for squats is 3x5 on one workout wide stance to parrallel, 1x20, 1x15, 1x10-12, 1x6-10 on the other with narrower BB style stance and trying to keep constant tension, almost ATG. Rep Range for deads is 1x5 and rep range for RDL is 2x6

Iv only done HIIT once bro

 

[Big_BK]

only 1 set of 5 on deads??? and only 3 sets of 5 on squats? Just drop the reps and up the weight. Throw more weight on the bar and do as many as you can.

 

[timtim]

might be time to leave both exercises and work others to strengthen auxillary muscles. start training one leg at a time: single leg squats, step ups, walking lunges, etc. after a few months go back.

 

[ExtraMile]

only 1 set of 5 on deads??? and only 3 sets of 5 on squats? Just drop the reps and up the weight. Throw more weight on the bar and do as many as you can.

1 set 5 reps deads yeah followed by 2 sets RDL. 3 sets 5 reps squats yes.

So change to say 1x3 deads and 3x3 squats? or more sets or what?

 

[fortunatesun]

Since you've totally stalled, I would even try doubles a few times or the occasional single if 3x doesn't do it. You want to stimulate your CNS so that it knows what it feels like pull to more weight. Just do whichever feels comfortable/seems to work.

Are there any specific times on either lift that = failure or are you just plateaued?

 

[ExtraMile]

might be time to leave both exercises and work others to strengthen auxillary muscles. start training one leg at a time: single leg squats, step ups, walking lunges, etc. after a few months go back.

Single leg stuff is kinda hard for me, I had a brain tumour a few years back and my balance has never fully recovered, lunges are ok, I often wobble a bit but I can steady myself, iv got no home for 1 legged squats though...
I was thinking of changing for in direct exercises but I was just gonna do box squats and either deficit deads or rack pulls...

Since you've totally stalled, I would even try doubles a few times or the occasional single if 3x doesn't do it. You want to stimulate your CNS so that it knows what it feels like pull to more weight. Just do whichever feels comfortable/seems to work.

Are there any specific times on either lift that = failure or are you just plateaued?

do you think heavy singles and doubles are safe for a 14 year old?

and im not quite sure what you mean by specific times, if you mean how many reps do i get through that depends, on squats usually 95kg which is like 215lbs i get 2 reps then 3rd takes either ages to complete or i just get stuck half way up. with deads its differant, iv never failed just my form goes shit and my back rounds...

 

[fortunatesun]

do you think heavy singles and doubles are safe for a 14 year old?

Most def. no. My bad, I forgot about your age.

To the other question, sort of what I'm looking for. If you can figure out what causes you to lose it then you can try to attack that weakness. At your age, I'd hesitate on getting too fancy though. (My bad again, sort of) You guys can work it through without having to tweak a great deal.

On your squat, for instance, what people often try is to box squat with the box set to the height where they get stuck.

Deads : Keep working on your core. Since you can get it off the ground, you could try rack DL with the pins set just below the point where the weight starts to get uncomfortable.

These partial lifts are a way to give weak areas more work without having to wear yourself out on the entire lift.

Box squats you can do on your higher rep day. They're usually done 8-10 sets of 3 with short rest between sets. You can't go as heavy on a box squat so by increasing intensity this way you're looking to improve your power while maximizing your strength return. (The first rep in a set is always the hardest, so this way you have to do a lot of them.)

Rack DL you could try on your B day also, or whenever you feel the need for a break from the floor.

Anyway, I wouldn't try all this with trying BK's idea first. The simpler solution is usually best.

 

[Big_BK]

no less then 4 sets on squats and deads IMO. first set is a warm up, 2nd set do like 6-8 reps. after that see how strength is and go for triples or singles, doubles, whatever. Just put more weight on the bar.

 

[SCREW]

seems like what is going on with my bench...i was doing great with them but now ive just been stuck...im going to stop doing flat bb bench and do floor press and incline bb bench press and see if i have added my weight to my flat bb bench

 

[b fold the truth]

Not making any progress since Christmas, with 1 month of that being a time when you did NOT do deadlifts...

Sounds like life to me...

Question: What are you doing TO IMPROVE your deadlift? Your squat? (Squat and Deadlift are not good answers either).

 

[ExtraMile]

no less then 4 sets on squats and deads IMO. first set is a warm up, 2nd set do like 6-8 reps. after that see how strength is and go for triples or singles, doubles, whatever. Just put more weight on the bar.

Oh, yeah when I said 3x5 and 1x5 those are the work sets, deads I do 4 sets squats I usually do 6 total with 3 being work sets

Not making any progress since Christmas, with 1 month of that being a time when you did NOT do deadlifts...

Sounds like life to me...

Question: What are you doing TO IMPROVE your deadlift? Your squat? (Squat and Deadlift are not good answers either).

3 weeks around january I took a break from deadlifting cuz I was stuck before christmas but I was doing weighted GHR, leg curls, back extensions and more leg work. If you mean what assistance work am I doing, just RDL but no other squat assistance as all I do for legs is squats and leg extensions (which i dont think will make much of a differance to squats lol)

 

[artificialaspirations]

eat more and take a week or two off. Stalling is the perfect time to deload and restart.

 

[ExtraMile]

eat more and take a week or two off. Stalling is the perfect time to deload and restart.

Its only around 5 weeks since I last did that, I took a break from all heavy lifting and upped the reps did a less hard impacting routine and ate more during it with no deads at all and heaviest squats were 12 rep, my squats have only stopped progressing recently, its my deadlifts that have been stuck for a while.

Would doing something like using bands make a differance? Or would I just end up overtrained?

 

[Big_BK]

Stop trying to over complicate things EM, just throw some more weight on the bar!

 

[ExtraMile]

Stop trying to over complicate things EM, just throw some more weight on the bar!

OK so heavy triples or doubles. Only problem is a heavy triple with good form would be not much differance to what I pull for 5 reps, the reason being is I dont fail my form just gets worse, thats all that stops more weight coming on I just cant keep my back flat throughout the 5 reps from rep 2 it starts getting worse and worse usually

 

[fortunatesun]

Good mornings.

Both squat and DL rely on the posterior chain of muscles starting at the lower back and through the glutes and hams as well as the small tie ins between each muscle group.

Often people think they have a weak core or some other problem when really it's the posterior chain that's weak. GMs are the single best exercise to strengthen this group.

EliteFTS - Superior Products and Knowledge for Lifters, Athletes, Coaches, and Trainers

 

[ExtraMile]

All of djeclipse's comments got deleted?

Well fortunatesun what Iv decided to do is reset, do the original bill star 5x5 a go (not the intermediate linear whatever that dj said) until I get stuck, Iv I get stuck and havent really progresses past were I am now I will do what you said I think and use box squats & rack deads setting the box or rack were I get stuck. Doing rack deads will hopefully let me pile on more weight like BK said and through the 5x5 Im about to do I should after 4 weeks just be putting more weight on the bar. I was a little hesitant when BK suggested triples, doubles and singles especially as my form gets worse the heavier I go...

thanks fortunatesun & BK

 

[lilone888]

same thing happened to me for squats. I've stopped doing normal squats so now I'm doing hack squats. I've been doing hack squats for around 3 weeks and I've gone up weight on that from 3 plates a side to 4 plates a side. Changing it up and being consistent with what you've changed and doing it every leg workout. Give it some time, and try squats again and see how it goes. You can't do the same workout routines for too long otherwise your body becomes too used to it. On my old leg routine, the day after i'd be in some pain but not extreme like when i started that routine. After i changed it up, i couldn't walk the day after it felt like.

 

[artificialaspirations]

something slightly different will work too like box squats and rack pulls

 

[ExtraMile]

something slightly different will work too like box squats and rack pulls

yeah well like i said im just gonna start the bill star 5x5, that has ATG squats and higher rep deads (4x8) if this doesnt work I'll change exercise all together, I do like box squats quite a bit... thankyou both

 

[djeclipse]

yeah well like i said im just gonna start the bill star 5x5, that has ATG squats and higher rep deads (4x8) if this doesnt work I'll change exercise all together, I do like box squats quite a bit... thankyou both

I think you should do Palliates, then you won't have to do all that weight changing you say is too much work for you.

 

[OneBreath]

Aren't you cutting right now bro? What is your current daily calorie deficit? Progressing on the big lifts on a calorie deficit sure as hell isn't easy, even with your young testosterone levels.

Let's take a look at those daily cals. Perhaps we can do some calorie cycling to give you some extras on the 1st and 3rd workouts of the 5x5 (the middle workout should be somewhat light)

 

[ExtraMile]

I think you should do Palliates, then you won't have to do all that weight changing you say is too much work for you.

I think you should go back and read that post again I said I dont like spending more time changing weights then actually lifting.

I have already said Im gonna start the 5x5 which is what you said all along.

I think you need to try and keep your temper a little better, this isnt the only thread Iv seen you start getting angry and saying shit about people just because they didnt understand the 5x5 or because they didnt want to do it, maybe you should try something like Tai-Chi that can help calm you down.

Since i started this thread you seemed to get pissed with everything I said, each time i tryed to be polite and explained that I wasnt under estimating your knowledge on the 5x5 i just dont enjoy it.

 

[ExtraMile]

Aren't you cutting right now bro? What is your current daily calorie deficit? Progressing on the big lifts on a calorie deficit sure as hell isn't easy, even with your young testosterone levels.

Let's take a look at those daily cals. Perhaps we can do some calorie cycling to give you some extras on the 1st and 3rd workouts of the 5x5 (the middle workout should be somewhat light)

Ah, Im not really that technical on diet, I posted a typical day at the beginning of this thread but I dont know the cals.

Me and SL decided the best thing to do would just be cut out junk food and sweets and any other fast digesting carbs exept PWO...

Only sort of cycling I have been doing is just tryna stuff down more carbs on DL day lol

 

[djeclipse]

I think you should go back and read that post again I said I dont like spending more time changing weights then actually lifting.

I have already said Im gonna start the 5x5 which is what you said all along.

I think you need to try and keep your temper a little better, this isnt the only thread Iv seen you start getting angry and saying shit about people just because they didnt understand the 5x5 or because they didnt want to do it, maybe you should try something like Tai-Chi that can help calm you down.

Since i started this thread you seemed to get pissed with everything I said, each time i tryed to be polite and explained that I wasnt under estimating your knowledge on the 5x5 i just dont enjoy it.

"I don't want to change the weight's" has to be the absolute most ignorant thing I have ever read on these forums.

If you're too lazy to change the weights then you shouldn't be lifting, take up knitting instead.

At one time there was an age requirement for this board, I always wondered why, now I know.

 

[lockdownd7]

"I don't want to change the weight's" has to be the absolute most ignorant thing I have ever read on these forums.

If you're too lazy to change the weights then you shouldn't be lifting, take up knitting instead.

At one time there was an age requirement for this board, I always wondered why, now I know.

Hmmm.....I guess you don't read your own posts?

 

[djeclipse]

Hmmm.....I guess you don't read your own posts?

Really now :roll:

 

[lockdownd7]

Really now :roll:

Seriously though, try to keep the attitude in check. There's no need to be confrontational/hostile even when you're right. All you do is piss people off which makes them disregard your advice, which means you're just wasting everyone's time.

 

[djeclipse]

Seriously though, try to keep the attitude in check. There's no need to be confrontational/hostile even when you're right. All you do is piss people off which makes them disregard your advice, which means you're just wasting everyone's time.

No one is forcing you to read my posts.

I reply in a manor that reflects the person I am replying to.

ExtraMile is too lazy to load and unload the bar, as per his excuse not to run a program he knows nothing about.

He is waiting until he hears the reply he is looking to hear instead of the reply that will actually help him. With his attitude he is a lost cause.

 

[ExtraMile]

"I don't want to change the weight's" has to be the absolute most ignorant thing I have ever read on these forums.

If you're too lazy to change the weights then you shouldn't be lifting, take up knitting instead.

At one time there was an age requirement for this board, I always wondered why, now I know.

I keep saying this over and over again, its not that I dont want to change the weights its that I dont like spending more time changing the weights than actually lifting, that and the fact that you only do 1 work set is what i dislike about the madcow 5x5. I am not the only person to say that, other ADULT members on this forum have said that in the past too.

 

[djeclipse]

I keep saying this over and over again, its not that I dont want to change the weights its that I dont like spending more time changing the weights than actually lifting, that and the fact that you only do 1 work set is what i dislike about the madcow 5x5. I am not the only person to say that, other ADULT members on this forum have said that in the past too.

Your pathetic excuses about a program you know nothing about does not warrant a real reply.

As I have stated, the above statement is pure Ignorance. Do not pretend as if you know what doing the actual program is like, where time is spent if you're too lazy to do it yourself.

Stop making ignorant assumptions on something you know nothing about. before making any more moronic statements about what is involved in the program, do yourself a favor and actually learn what the program is about, then you'll realize just how stupid you sound.

Instead, just keep doing the same thing you're doing, making no progress, because you obviously know much more then the likes of Bill Star, madcow & Mark Rippetoe.

 

[ExtraMile]

Your pathetic excuses about a program you know nothing about does not warrant a real reply.

As I have stated, the above statement is pure Ignorance. Do not pretend as if you know what doing the actual program is like, where time is spent if you're too lazy to do it yourself.

Stop making ignorant assumptions on something you know nothing about. before making any more moronic statements about what is involved in the program, do yourself a favor and actually learn what the program is about, then you'll realize just how stupid you sound.

Another thing is Iv actually told you time and time again I am starting the original bill star 5x5. This whole arguement is over nothing as your telling me to do the madcow 5x5 for intermediate but I have already stated that I am going to do the bill star 5x5. lockdown is right the way you reply just pisses people off and stops them from listening to you, you do it to other people aswell not just me. Why havnt you made this much fuss with anyone else who says they dislike the madcow 5x5? I remember both SaiBoT and desmond saying the exact reason they dislike is it because you spend so much time changing weights and not actually lifting and because it gets boring after a while.

You keep to your madcow 5x5 and Ill do my bill star 5x5. This thread has become 4 pages long for nothing other than you arguing that your idea is better than what others have suggested, you havnt got anything from it as like i keep saying, Im going to do the bill star 5x5 and not the 5x5 linear so just stop there please as I dont want anymore of your insults and reasons as to why I shouldnt be allowed on this board or why i am ignorant. Thankyou for your advice

 

[Big_BK]

DJ cut the shit, no need for hostility. EM if you haven't found the answer you are looking for start a new thread this is getting locked.

 

[ceo]

Do you have one of these (Hammer Strength Shrug Machine) at your gym?

If so, start doing your deads on this.

Lower the seat all the way down. Stand facing the machine. Grab the lower handles and set your feet to a comfortable position. Pull! You should really be able to keep good form as the more stationary aspect of the apparatus aids in this. Keep adding plates to each side (or 25's, 10's, 5's...) When I do this I just count the actual weights, and don't give any weight to the actual "machine" itself.

Those and rack deads to help your deadlift.

For squats...Hack Squats, Leg Press, etc....just switch up the exercise, but hitting the same bodypart(s), and keep progressing on the new exercises. When you stall out on a couple of alternate exercises, go back to your deads and squats. You'll blow past your old weights.