Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Culture of the Self and Forgiveness...

Would you forgive the dude who did CC fraud, would you forgive SO cheating?

  • I understand that in life wrong choices are made. I can forgive and move on.

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • I can't forgive or forget, my trust is shot, but I wish them no ill will.

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • I have been utterly violated, I find myself enraged, and I hope they burn in hell.

    Votes: 5 31.3%

  • Total voters
    16

-Ariel-

-Thandzilla-
Platinum
The three threads that made me ruminate while I couldn't sleep last night were the threads including the one about 8 felony counts, court in 4 days and asking EF for legal advice, another thread about being fucked over by a loved one and starting over, and finally WB's thread about self inquiry and honestly discerning whether you are actually making an effort to get past selfish tendencies of the ego/self and reach to others authentically. I know I try, but not near to the capacity that I could.

Both WB and I discerned that the culture that one is in plays a huge role in establishing what values that person stands on and uses to navigate their life. My research project is on the increasing trend of narcissism in this country due to the consumeristic culture that has evolved due to the complete marketization of the media and culture shaping industries. Specifically, only 7 transnational corporations, Bertellsman, AOL Time Warner, Sony, Disney, Viacom, Vivendi International, and News Corporation. They own 90% of all media: movies, tv, radio, music, magazines, books, newspapers, and internet. These private companies are hemmoraged in debt and exist for the sole purpose of making a profit. The most effective method is establishing the story that personal identity is derived not from the principles one holds, but the products they consume. I am such a sucker, I bought a 17 inch mac book, why because it stands for creativity and non conformism, just like I do, I own a Jetta, why because it represents anti materialism just like me. Through imagery and narration, one's identity is defined not through values like integrity, the people they love, and good will but by product selection. In coherence with the capitalistic imperative that this country flourished under of obtain as much as possible for the self at the lowest cost regardless of consequence. A cultural narrative in which we understand ourselves as subject/self and others as object/not self. However as children and teens develop under this devolving culture the relation is quickly regressing to subject/self and object/it.

There are so many detrimental effects due to the intertwining of media marketization of culture shaping industry and capitalistic culture that are confining our self understanding based more and more on narrated images, fabricated stories, and a constructed self that you buy already packaged with no assembly required from nordstroms, sharper image, or wal mart. Since the dominant social institutions determining culture, and what is culture but the collective power to define reality, are private conglomerations, the social imperative for the individual is to obtain as much as possible at the expense of others so they can live a happy meaningful life. This ideology leads to the problematic nature we are entrenched in with so much misunderstanding at every level, continuous conflict with others, elevating anxiety levels, alienation, meanness, conditioned dullness, a lack of empathy, and since our minds are filled up with all these thoughts trying to protect ourselves, while also continuously trying to distract our way into happiness, a quiet mind is almost impossible... there fore cutting us off from our birthright of creativity, spontanaeity, and love.

Moreover, the conditioning rhythm or 'music' that dances into our veins and establishes patterns of a constructed self in which one's self perception and perception of others is based on what purchases they make. An obfuscating type of individualism in which one's ego drives one to seek security and pleasure at all costs. It is fake individualism because while we have more choices than any other generation of history, it is only surface choice, behind every choice is the same logic or logos operating of identity through consumption. Competition, violence, a constant need to be entertained form the backgrounds of our minds and yet it does not fulfill us spiritually and we long to transcend these bonds through communites like here at EF.
It is my prediction that the momentum that is constantly accumulating through time and constraining culture more and more will finally give way to a new system that does not establish the story of identity in order to sell commodities, but it will only get much worse before it gets better.

One of the most problematic facets in culture is a lack of meaning that many people feel... and what is meaning, but interconnection, it is not function or how much you bring home, but interconnection and forming relationships. The manufactured identities that are consumed don't provide meaning and outside of consumerism, many people find it hard to connect with others because all they know is consumption.

All of us have been fucked over before somehow, how can one not live today and not be fucked over. Some much worse than others.

Returning to the beginning if you were one of the credit card victims, or if a loved one had cheated on you, would you have the emotional capacity to forgive them?

Do you believe people in these dark times where each of us are conditioned on so many levels through the repeated stories of the self, that we can change our nature or patterns of the mind?

Through forgiveness, we let go of the hate, anger, and poison that was put in us, however it is no easy feat... I believe that one has to have a strong foundation in family, or self, or faith in the eternal law of the universe in order to transcend the desire to obliterate those who have done you harm.
By letting go we are able to create a tranquil inner which allows our creativity, appreciation for life, and love to expand outer.
 
great post man, you touch on a lot of important topics here that I feel are common to ALL people.

I think the individual is best served as well as the community when we radiate love and forgiveness. Treat others just as you would like to be treated. We all know no one is perfect and makes mistakes, so why do we expect others to be perfect so often?
 
Lestat said:
great post man, you touch on a lot of important topics here that I feel are common to ALL people.

I think the individual is best served as well as the community when we radiate love and forgiveness. Treat others just as you would like to be treated. We all know no one is perfect and makes mistakes, so why do we expect others to be perfect so often?
thanks lestat... I dig that you posted, I couldn't agree with you any more, I've been ruminating on my relationship patterns and the patterns of C&C and just men and women in general and I think one way society has clearly thrown social evolution out the door is that we place an emphasis too much on the male voice of objective presence, facts, logic, reason... you need this obviously to guide you in life... however the female voice of subjectivity, which revolves around interpretation, interaction, warmth, companionship, our current form of science, education, business structure does claims is worthless because it has no meaning... no observable cause and effect obsevable results... for example we can't see feelings... so as a result of just of having our social structures guided more by objective, male, type logic... there is a disconnect with feeling and we don't realize that people don't err in logic when they hurt others... they lack interconnection, feelings, empathy, self control...
yesterday SS, Smurfy, Stiletto were the predominant female voices pulling double duty due to some being MIA, and I realized that wow, its really the female voice that is the music of this forum, while us dudes provide more information type knowledge and humor, its the female voice that really stimulates communal interaction, warmth, and goodwill... so, I the rather long way of answering your post Lestat is that we have gone wrong in putting to much emphasis on logic and not enough on interpretation and feeling.
 
I will Read this later Sir:)

THANKYOU for taking the time to Thoughtfully Share with us:)
 
ariel347 said:
thanks lestat... I dig that you posted, I couldn't agree with you any more, I've been ruminating on my relationship patterns and the patterns of C&C and just men and women in general and I think one way society has clearly thrown social evolution out the door is that we place an emphasis too much on the male voice of objective presence, facts, logic, reason... you need this obviously to guide you in life... however the female voice of subjectivity, which revolves around interpretation, interaction, warmth, companionship, our current form of science, education, business structure does claims is worthless because it has no meaning... no observable cause and effect obsevable results... for example we can't see feelings... so as a result of just of having our social structures guided more by objective, male, type logic... there is a disconnect with feeling and we don't realize that people don't err in logic when they hurt others... they lack interconnection, feelings, empathy, self control...
yesterday SS, Smurfy, Stiletto were the predominant female voices pulling double duty due to some being MIA, and I realized that wow, its really the female voice that is the music of this forum, while us dudes provide more information type knowledge and humor, its the female voice that really stimulates communal interaction, warmth, and goodwill... so, I the rather long way of answering your post Lestat is that we have gone wrong in putting to much emphasis on logic and not enough on interpretation and feeling.
I am not sure I would characterize it as male vs female. I am overly rational sometimes, very logical, but I put happiness first, both of myself AND others. I rationally try to find ways to acheive that.

I think the mentality you speak of comes from being selfish. Wanting as much as possible, nothing is ever enough. You may be rich but you can always be richer, and it doesn't matter if its at someone else's expense. I think our culture fosters that type of mentality. Where you can do anything that isn't illegal to get ahead and you will be rewarded for that. I think people focus too much on the individual and less on the community, or even the species. What is really best for everyone?
 
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness " is one of the most famous phrases in the United States Declaration of Independence. These three aspects are listed among the "inalienable rights" of man. The phrase is based on the writings of John Locke, who expressed a similar concept of "life, liberty, and estate (or property)". Locke said that "no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions."

In the U.S., this is quickly being replaced with the below phrase:

"Keeping up with the Joneses" is a popular catchphrase in many parts of the English-speaking world. It refers to the desire to be seen as being as good as one's neighbors or contemporaries using the comparative benchmarks of social caste or the accumulation of material goods. To fail to "keep up with the Joneses" is perceived as demonstrating socio-economic or cultural inferiority.

In Maryland, the number of BMW 745 and Mercedes S class drivers that get evicted from their apartments because they can't pay rent is laughable. Too many people trying to play the "Keeping up with the Joneses" in the U.S. anyway.

In reference to your poll ( :rainbow: ); I chose:

"I understand that in life wrong choices are made. I can forgive and move on."

I use to think if my wife ever cheated on me that I would never want anything to do with her again. If she ever did, I would like to think we could work through it and become stronger from it. Most likely we would end up another statistic and get a divorce, but I would want to try and work it out first
 
can someone sticky this as post of the year?? It might be the best post in EF history......not sure, but well done..........well fucking done!!

I"m going to print that out because that is EXACTLY how I feel about our society, only I could not have put it in those words. I really fucked learned something here today from EF.........probably a first...not sure.LOL

Anyway.........the "capitalist imperative"...........well fucking put!!! God dammit that was good. But you'll probably be branded a socialist simply because you're not a docile little capitalist. :whatever:
 
redsamurai said:
can someone sticky this as post of the year?? It might be the best post in EF history......not sure, but well done..........well fucking done!!

It's very good, butt post of the year may be a little ambitious ... especially in July.
 
I still have not replied Proper

But I urge you to look up the concept of the " Panopticon Effect " by Sandra Lee Bartkey a Feminist theory writer

It provides a link at least in part to the concept of how the market ( males) dictate the identity of the female and create a perceptual Prison of values and behavior that "police" both externally and most important internal actions of the oppressed or victims of the system.

The messages of control/encouragement of certain behaviors are so powerful, so pervasive that "self policing" actually becomes the primary mechanism of control.


this in part support the Market argument that is being made
 
PICK3 said:
Sorry for Nancy'ing up your thread ariel
Pick, I nancy my own shit up, like I couldn't follow this thread up cause, my
S O said I'm spending way too much time at EF, so being as my nuts in her purse... I missed you guys last night.
 
About Forgiveness:

I can forgive and forget ONLY if there is true remorse ,
and if the person does not do those things again because they cant do it, do to the remorse they feel.
 
Like sunday, I noticed my first gut reaction was to pile on this dude, and just examined how strong it was... really overwhelming... I wanted to tell him he was scum of the earth and was gonna get his ass literally pwned... but then I just sat on that feeling for a minute and abided in its desire to be expressed, then I noticed how ugly my shit can be, and how I've dicked over others in the past, and then I noticed that my shit can be pretty thoughtless and ugly too... and I haven't been fucked over yet that has left scar tissue... so I can still forgive... I'm not sure if it will always be this way, but thats the way it is now.
 
ariel is a good writer and intelligent thoughts.

thank goodness. don't ever leave. :)
 
I forgive Stilletto and Pick for being fucking rock stars that have my shit so flattered...
I can't sleep but am happy that I'm a new part of C&C, thanks letto and Pick...
 
LOL at this thread, I have people in my mind from 20 years ago if i see them today , I think I might follow them into a dark alley , kick out a knee cap and drag them into a dumpster
 
chazk said:
LOL at this thread, I have people in my mind from 20 years ago if i see them today , I think I might follow them into a dark alley , kick out a knee cap and drag them into a dumpster
thats not shocking... I'm sure they deserved it brah.
 
velvett said:
I would say I'm the same way.
Atleast now I understand why you rarely forgive...
remorse... today... I know we are both on the same page here.
I agree.
 
Top Bottom