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Cholesterol help!!

genesis

New member
Ok, I just started my cycle of eq at 400mgs every week and winstrol at 50mgs ED. Along with some femara ED.. I've been playing with the dosages a bit.. never hitting 2.5mgs just yet.. seeing how much my body needs to keep the bloat and everything down.. at first I was doing about 1mg Ed or so.. but I've upped it recently at my levels of EQ should be reaching their full soon as I was frontloading.

Ok, now I just got my blood work done by a cholesterol doctor.. my cholesterol ratios are absolutely horrible, I have a count of 7 hdl to about 190 ldl. Thats ridiculous.. the doctor I saw is currently talking to my dads doctor as he has high cholesterol as well.. but he does not run cycles or anything like that.. he just as a poor diet. What should I expect to hear from them? Apparently I will be seeing a dietician.

What kind of supplements could I put myself on in the mean time to help myself? Or maybe I should wait for the doctor and let him advise me?



Thanks in advance everyone.
 
I just found out yesterday mine is 279. 58 HDL and 188LDL. My doc actually recommended read yeast rice and niacin along with diet and excercise of course. He wants to test again in 2 months. I was thinking about using the at home cholesterol tests you can buy at walgreens. Anyone know if these tests are accurate?
 
Genesis said:
Ok, I just started my cycle of eq at 400mgs every week and winstrol at 50mgs ED. Along with some femara ED.. I've been playing with the dosages a bit.. never hitting 2.5mgs just yet.. seeing how much my body needs to keep the bloat and everything down.. at first I was doing about 1mg Ed or so.. but I've upped it recently at my levels of EQ should be reaching their full soon as I was frontloading.

Ok, now I just got my blood work done by a cholesterol doctor.. my cholesterol ratios are absolutely horrible, I have a count of 7 hdl to about 190 ldl. Thats ridiculous.. the doctor I saw is currently talking to my dads doctor as he has high cholesterol as well.. but he does not run cycles or anything like that.. he just as a poor diet. What should I expect to hear from them? Apparently I will be seeing a dietician.

What kind of supplements could I put myself on in the mean time to help myself? Or maybe I should wait for the doctor and let him advise me?



Thanks in advance everyone.

Switch to everything injectable, and chose one that are least liver toxic.
I guess you had your liver enzymes checked. If not, get it done.
If your liver is OK, then Lipitor would be a good choice. Diet is not going to do much. You are already exercising.
As you are exercising, your CK might be already high. That is indicator of muscle damage.
The main possible dangerous side effects are muscle and liver damage from Lipitor.
It can be monitored by a monthly liver function test and CK level.

Or You can accept bad cholestrol for a few weeks.
 
Genesis said:
Ok, I just started my cycle of eq at 400mgs every week and winstrol at 50mgs ED. Along with some femara ED.. I've been playing with the dosages a bit.. never hitting 2.5mgs just yet.. seeing how much my body needs to keep the bloat and everything down.. at first I was doing about 1mg Ed or so.. but I've upped it recently at my levels of EQ should be reaching their full soon as I was frontloading.

Ok, now I just got my blood work done by a cholesterol doctor.. my cholesterol ratios are absolutely horrible, I have a count of 7 hdl to about 190 ldl. Thats ridiculous.. the doctor I saw is currently talking to my dads doctor as he has high cholesterol as well.. but he does not run cycles or anything like that.. he just as a poor diet. What should I expect to hear from them? Apparently I will be seeing a dietician.

What kind of supplements could I put myself on in the mean time to help myself? Or maybe I should wait for the doctor and let him advise me?



Thanks in advance everyone.


There are studies that show Niacin will boot your HDL. Also, many doctors recommend cardio...I don't know what that does to increase HDL but they suggest it. The LDL....well that is genetic and some dietary. Try to reduce any foods that are associated with increased in LDL...you know what they are. The doctor will probably give you the same shit I gave you and he/she may put you on something to reduce the LDL so your HDL/LDL ratio is not so fooked. My doc just told me about Niacin and cardio....I was lucky in that my LDL was lower than 70 so my HDL/LDL ratio was in the acceptable range.

Oh, Join Life Extensions!!! They are full of information about shit like that.
Good luck.
 
firebolt said:
I just found out yesterday mine is 279. 58 HDL and 188LDL. My doc actually recommended read yeast rice and niacin along with diet and excercise of course. He wants to test again in 2 months. I was thinking about using the at home cholesterol tests you can buy at walgreens. Anyone know if these tests are accurate?

Niacin is not a good choice because its main effect is on HDL, and your HDL is already better than average (average for men: 45). It also had high side effects (flushing, stomach/intestine problems).
You need to decrease LDL. For high HDL, Statins are best choice.
Your LDL needs to get below 130. Diet and exercise is not going to do that job. But giving it 2 months is not that bad an idea.
 
What would be the best thing to boost my hdl levels? Cause I mean comeon I got single digits on my hdl right now.. thats horrible.
 
Genesis said:
Ok, I just started my cycle of eq at 400mgs every week and winstrol at 50mgs ED. Along with some femara ED.. ... hdl 7....

the doctor I saw is currently talking to my dads doctor as he has high cholesterol as well.. but he does not run cycles or anything like that.. he just as a poor diet. What should I expect to hear from them?


what should you expect to hear from them? if you're under 21 you're gonna hear "YOU"RE SO GROUNDED". they'll eventually figure out you're juicing . thats about the only way to get down that low on hdl.

1-TU is still legal, and it fucks up hdl also so just tell them you been using 1-TU (or 1-AD or any of the 1 test prohormone products).
(they wouldnt get you down that low, but the docs won't know that and they'll buy it- especially if you tell them the 1-tu doesnt aromatize).
--

the winny and the femera are trashing your hdl. why u using femera, you don't have anything in your cycle that aromatizes at a high rate? get rid of it or titrate down to minimum effective dose if you can.

--

search on cholesterol, hdl, policosanol, niacin, you'll find a ton of info here on raising hdl.

good luck
 
dogoftheday said:
Niacin is not a good choice because its main effect is on HDL, and your HDL is already better than average (average for men: 45). It also had high side effects (flushing, stomach/intestine problems).
You need to decrease LDL. For high HDL, Statins are best choice.
Your LDL needs to get below 130. Diet and exercise is not going to do that job. But giving it 2 months is not that bad an idea.


I completely disagree, take the niacin. Its more the ratio of HDL to LDL that one needs to be concerned with rather than the actual values - unless they are completely jacked. Side effects are overrated, at a gram a day split up into two 500mg doses throughout the day I saw absolutely no side effects.

Diet will do you well, significantly increase fiber intake. Nolvadex post cycle will also help increase HDL values.

If you're that concerned, drop the Winny-thats whats messing up your cholesterol values.
 
UA_Iron said:
I completely disagree, take the niacin. Its more the ratio of HDL to LDL that one needs to be concerned with rather than the actual values - unless they are completely jacked. Side effects are overrated, at a gram a day split up into two 500mg doses throughout the day I saw absolutely no side effects.

Diet will do you well, significantly increase fiber intake. Nolvadex post cycle will also help increase HDL values.

If you're that concerned, drop the Winny-thats whats messing up your cholesterol values.


what were the before & after on your hdl with the niacin? and were you (cycling?)
 
Dbol, femara, test prop

HDL on cycle: 17
HDL 30 days later: 48

I stopped cycling after I got my initial bloodwork back and started PCT immediately with 40mg nolva ed. Also was doing ~1g niacin (doses were erratic), Flax Oil, Olive Oil, and a high fiber diet. I think I was eating under maintenance level calories too.

Of course other factors may have come into play, I am not genetically predisposed to bad cholesterol.
 
UA_Iron said:
I completely disagree, take the niacin. Its more the ratio of HDL to LDL that one needs to be concerned with rather than the actual values - unless they are completely jacked. Side effects are overrated, at a gram a day split up into two 500mg doses throughout the day I saw absolutely no side effects.

Diet will do you well, significantly increase fiber intake. Nolvadex post cycle will also help increase HDL values.

If you're that concerned, drop the Winny-thats whats messing up your cholesterol values.

I am a researcher in the field.
Please check the NIH guidelines.
 
you got me then.

45 is an average HDL level for males I agree.

You're saying lifestyle change wont significantly reduce his LDL levels?
 
dogoftheday said:
Niacin is not a good choice because its main effect is on HDL, and your HDL is already better than average (average for men: 45). It also had high side effects (flushing, stomach/intestine problems)..


UA is right- according to most doctors and my readings, the HDL/Total ratio is the more important reading, rather than LDL or Total. As well, low HDL is an independant risk factor. (example http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach....med.cardiology/msg13022.html+hdl/total&hl=en)
 
I am going in to see a dietician sometime next week.. I don't think he'll give me any new information that I wouldn't be able to find on my own.. but we'll see...



If they don't put on any drugs.. well... I'll see where it takes me..


I use femara because I am slightly scared that I may not be done growing.. not expecting to grow like 5 more inches or anything but possibly another half inch... AT MOST.. and honestly I'd like that half inch.. so yeah.. just playing it safe on the whole growing vertical thing with some letrozole.
 
firebolt said:
I just found out yesterday mine is 279. 58 HDL and 188LDL. My doc actually recommended read yeast rice and niacin along with diet and excercise of course. He wants to test again in 2 months. I was thinking about using the at home cholesterol tests you can buy at walgreens. Anyone know if these tests are accurate?


I was wondering the same about those home tests.
Any info about that?
 
UA_Iron said:
you got me then.

45 is an average HDL level for males I agree.

You're saying lifestyle change wont significantly reduce his LDL levels?

They do, especially in short run. Most people have problem in maintaining it in the long run. Most important thing is weight (fat) loss AND MAINTAIN IT. In his case, it is not likely to bring it below 130.
 
Ok, I'm going to cut back on the femara to EOD and see how that works.. but if I start to notice any bloat or estrogen related sides.. I'm booting it right back up to ED.

If I were to drop the winny at 50mgs ED, what would be an appropriate amount to substitute it with EQ? I'm already doing 400mgs every week.



Also, what would be the actual residual consequences of having piss poor cholesterol ratios for about 10 week sor so? I'm 2 weeks into my cycle.. so i have another 8 weeks or so left.. including PCT.
 
dogoftheday said:
Niacin is not a good choice because its main effect is on HDL, and your HDL is already better than average (average for men: 45). It also had high side effects (flushing, stomach/intestine problems).
You need to decrease LDL. For high HDL, Statins are best choice.
Your LDL needs to get below 130. Diet and exercise is not going to do that job. But giving it 2 months is not that bad an idea.

I would diagree about Niacin not being a good choice simply b/c he has a higher than average HDL. It's not really about HDL or LDL...it's more about the ratio. The higher the HDL the better your HDL/LDL ratio. But you are right, he needs to work on lowering the LDL which again will improve his HDL/LDL ratio. Just my 2 cc's.

However, I am interested in knowing more about what you mean by in the short run and long run. I didn't quiet catch what you are saying. Or am I mixing up things?

Knight1811
 
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Genesis said:
Ok, I'm going to cut back on the femara to EOD and see how that works.. but if I start to notice any bloat or estrogen related sides.. I'm booting it right back up to ED.

and if still no bloat, cut it back even further. better yet, substitute nolva or aromasin and do the same trail & error to find minimum effective dose.

Genesis said:
Also, what would be the actual residual consequences of having piss poor cholesterol ratios for about 10 week sor so? I'm 2 weeks into my cycle.. so i have another 8 weeks or so left.. including PCT.

Excerpts from my prior posts re Cholesterol, HDL etc

the number one REAL health concern for AAS users is Cardiovascular disease.

The ultra-low HDL & elevated LDL is causing greatly accelerated formation of sludge in your arteries that will lead to either angioplasties & bypass operations (ala arnold) or heart attack & death (ala Mentzer brothers & any number of WWF wrestlers).

the worst offenders are anavar (the "safe" steroid), winny, and any of the other non-aromatizing gear. anadrol gets special mention.

keep an eye on the lipid panel in your bloodwork, and take agressive remedial action (plenty of threads to search out here). why this isn't obvious and discussed more often is shocking.

one cycle won't kill you. neither will 2 or 3. but when you figure multiple cycles over multiple years, during each of which you are HDL-impaired (depending on choice of gear & supps) and you're looking for trouble.

===========
1) genetics & predisposition rule. why do some people smoke 4 packs a day & wash it down with whisky, and live to be 90? another smokes 1/2 pack a day & gets lung cancer at 40. if the 2nd guy never smoked, he wouldn't have gotten the lung cancer. if you're predisposed to CVD, AAS will tip you over the edge & get you there real quick.

in any event, whether or not you were predisposed to CVD, your cardiovascular aging will be accelerated.

best you can do is keep an eye on the HDL especially (actually the hdl/ldl ratio is what matters) and take agressive action to try and keep it near normal for as much of the year as possible. rotation of gear, off-time, remedial supplements, aerobic excercize (i know i know), diet. all the info everyone needs is in various threads here for searching. one by Fonz & one by drveejay come to mind on cholesterol.

2) another thing to watch out for that has negative synergy with above is "thickening" of blood from AAS. the Red Blood cell count (RBC). the higher the number, the thicker the blood is. so now you have thicker sludge trying to get tru smaller pipes. EQ is one of the worst in this area.
I read somewhere that donating blood every month or so will help to thin out, but can't vouch for this. one of the docs should chime in.

==============

"sludge" is just slang for artery plaque; the accumulated cholesterol based deposits lining the walls of the arteries that eventually leads to blockages and then agina, heart attacks, etc. one part of cardiovascular disease. the diameter of the pipe gets smaller & smaller till blood can't get tru & poof you get your heart attack.

HDL helps carry away the bad cholesterol (ldl) that forms these plaques.
var & many other orals (as well as non-aromatizing injectables) greatly lower HDL while on & for a time afterwards. During this HDL-impaired time, you are greatly accelerating your cardiovascular age, as you pile on the plaque. this is why so many BB wrestlers etc drop dead at a youing age of heart attacks, and/or end up as bypass patients.

the worst that i know of would be var, anadrol, winny, masteron, proviron (notice they have 1 thing in common- no estrogen. estrogen helps keep hdl levels up, & is the reason women have virtual immunity from heart disease untill menopause).

when i do var, i can easily get down to 9 HDL where low end of normal is 40-something. low HDL is considered an important independent risk factor for heart attack.

you can of course mitigate the risks with low animal fat diet (so less raw material for ldl & plaque) and diet high in fiber (or psyllium seed husk like metamucil), nuts & olive oil (which actually work to raise hdl), aerobic excercize, supplements like policosanol, noflush niacin.
====================
While on, and until your HDL levels recover, it would be useful to take Garlic (kyolic in the cardiovascular dose-see the box) .

I had a post awhile back (search geoboy & garlic & you should find it) that cites a study demonstrating that Garlic functions as a pseudo-replacement HDL, or even a super-HDL, carrying away ldl. If the fact works like the theory, this would prevent the accumul;ation of "sludge" while HDL-impaired during a cycle.

==========================

http://elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340027&page=3&pp=20&highlight=sludge

http://elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254418&page=6&pp=20&highlight=sludge




l
l
 
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get off the winny and start the niacin

you can finish your cycle if you want - just eat clean and take your vitamins, suggest adding garlic as well

also, no need for femara on that cycle
 
Ok, just an update..

I'm getting another blood test tomorrow.. I think my doctor is thinking I may not have fasted long enough before the first blood test.. because he is still boogled that a man my age has such bad cholesterol..


I have cut the femara to basically e3d at like less than .75mgs or so....
I'm not sure if enough time has passed since I did this in order to significantly change my hdl to ldl rations but we will see...


Btw, my doctor wants me to see a dietician.. its like an 85 dollar fee.. is it worth the money? Or could I just find it all online?
 
Genesis said:
Ok, just an update..

I'm getting another blood test tomorrow.. I think my doctor is thinking I may not have fasted long enough before the first blood test.. because he is still boogled that a man my age has such bad cholesterol..

Btw, my doctor wants me to see a dietician.. its like an 85 dollar fee.. is it worth the money? Or could I just find it all online?

they didnt put 2 and 2 together yet? gotta luv the docs.

u might benefit from talking to a GOOD dietician, but after reading tru the board, you'll probably know more than he does.
 
Genesis said:
Ok, I just started my cycle of eq at 400mgs every week and winstrol at 50mgs ED. Along with some femara ED.. I've been playing with the dosages a bit.. never hitting 2.5mgs just yet.. seeing how much my body needs to keep the bloat and everything down.. at first I was doing about 1mg Ed or so.. but I've upped it recently at my levels of EQ should be reaching their full soon as I was frontloading.

Ok, now I just got my blood work done by a cholesterol doctor.. my cholesterol ratios are absolutely horrible, I have a count of 7 hdl to about 190 ldl. Thats ridiculous.. the doctor I saw is currently talking to my dads doctor as he has high cholesterol as well.. but he does not run cycles or anything like that.. he just as a poor diet. What should I expect to hear from them? Apparently I will be seeing a dietician.

What kind of supplements could I put myself on in the mean time to help myself? Or maybe I should wait for the doctor and let him advise me?



Thanks in advance everyone.

7 HDL and 190LDL? That HDL score is one of the lowest I've seen.

Start policosanol right away at 40mg at night before bed.
Drop the femara, EQ doesn't aromatize to estrogen, but to a simpler estrogen.
If you want your lipids to improve(They are probably shot due to the winny) add in 10mg Novaldex/day. Novaldex will also block the simple estrogen that has aromatized from the EQ.

Do that, and in about 4 weeks your LDL will be reduced by 40% to about 124 and your HDL will have increased marginally to about 20...for a total cholesterol value of 144.

Winny btw is what is killing your HDL. It is by far the worst AAS for destroying HDL. I'd consider eliminating in and going for a different anabolic. Low dose test(300mg/week) would be a good option, just increase the EQ dosage marginally.

Do that and your HDL will probably rebound to about 30-40, while using the Policosanol and novaldex. LDL will drop even further to about 100.

Then you'll be in the safe zone.
 
Nolvadex is not an option for me.. it might fuse growth plates and I'd rather have bad cholesterol this one time rather than risk that... I need the femara to stop any excess estrogen.. I am taking a very VERY small amount.. every 3rd day at that.



I'll try the policosanol.. but its never worked for me before...



Ok, did my blood test today.. should have results in 1-2 days.. now.. my doctor on the bottem of the blood work form requested some additional tests called Apo B or something like that.. I asked the lady drawing my blood what it was and she wasn't sure.. she said it might be some kind of protein...

I'm under the impression that if my doctor is testing for roids or drugs of any type, he has to inform me correct? Could he be checking for protein synthesis or something that may indicate some type of roid?


Thanks
 
Here is one of the best articles on cholesterol you will ever read:

I give drveejay credit as he wrote it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cholesterol...the “other” silent killer all members should be concerned with!

WHAT IS CHOLESTEROL
Cholesterol is a waxy, fat-like compound that belongs to a class of molecules called steroids. It's found in many foods, in your bloodstream and in all your body's cells. If you had a handful of cholesterol, it might feel like a soft, melted candle. Cholesterol is essential forFormation and maintenance of cell membranes (helps the cell to resist changes in temperature and protects and insulates nerve fibers)
Formation of sex hormones (progesterone, testosterone, estradiol, cortisol)
Production of bile salts, which help to digest food
Conversion into vitamin D in the skin when exposed to sunlight.

Excess cholesterol in the Blood collects on the walls of certain blood vessels decreasing their ability to provide proper blood flow to the tissues fed by these blood vessels. For example, a heart attack occurs when the heart receives insufficient blood flow. High levels of cholesterol also increase the risk of high blood pressure, stroke, and circulation problems.
Cholesterol can be affected by consuming foods high in fat, but the body also synthesizes cholesterol. Some people that adhere to a low fat diet still have high cholesterol levels because their body synthesizes an excess amount. There are several forms in which cholesterol is present in the body, LDL (the harmful form) and HDL (the helpful form). Depending on the relative levels of these forms, along with the concentration of triglycerides (another type of body fat), certain drugs are more effective then others in correcting the abnormalities. For example, a person with elevated LDL levels and normal triglycerides may be treated with different medications than someone with only elevated triglycerides.

Drveejay’s RULES to improve over-all Lipid Profiles.

RULE # 1) Eat a High Fiber Diet

HIGH FIBER DIETS are great for reducing cholesterol levels and reducing soft arterial plaque. Water soluble fibers (guar gum, citrus pectin, locust beans, etc.) are very viscous, slimy and sticky. Bacteria in the large bowel breakdown the water soluble fibers into short chain fatty acids. It is the fatty acids we believe are responsible for lowering LDL-C and interfere with the adhesive characteristics of plaque promoting regression of atherosclerosis (blockage). It also poses qualities which enable lowering LDL (Bad) Cholesterol thereby reducing total cholesterol, improves GI Motility, and improves Glucose Tolerance.

RULE # 2) Avoid Fats and Carbs in the same meal. This one’s kind of a no-brainer! As fatty acids and carbs compete as energy sources. Gluconeogenesis mediates and prioritizes this competition in favor of carb utilization. The fatty acids that are NOT needed at this time facilitate cholesterol synthesis and lipogenesis (not in the absence of carbs!). This is a recipe for disaster.

RULE #3) Eat a diet RICH in Omega 3 Fatty Acids Fish oil supplements are dietary supplements that contain oil from cold water fish such as mackerel, salmon, black cod, albacore tuna, sardines, and herring. The active ingredients in fish oil supplements are essential fatty acids known as omega-3 fatty acids. They typically include eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
Fish oils are noted for their effects in people with high cholesterol and heart disease. Medical research supports that large amounts of fish oil—five to 20 grams daily—may lower the amount of triglycerides, or dissolved fat, in the blood. For more...http://www.dcnutrition.com/fattyacids/.

RULE#3) LOWER SATURATED FATSNot all saturated fat is linked to elevated cholesterol levels; only a subset of saturated fatty acids have this effect. The effect of saturated fat intake on cardiovascular disease incidence is only mediated through its effect on raising LDL levels. If cholesterol levels are controlled for, then saturated fat has no independent effect. What this means is that if the LDL and HDL levels are adequate, then adjustment of saturated fat intake will have little benefit. This is an important concept because earlier; it was thought that saturated fat intake was an independent factor, but more recently, it has become accepted fact that much of this effect was due to failure to account for fiber intake which typically declines as saturated fat intake increases.

RULE #4) AVOID TRANS FATTY ACIDSFinally, the role of trans fatty acids needs clarification. Trans fatty acid, although they are technically classified as polyunsaturated fats because of their chemical structure, in general behave more along the lines of saturated fats with regard to their effects on cholesterol. In addition to this property, they also appear to have negative effects on hormonal regulation by interfering with eicosanoids due to their similarity with polyunsaturated fats. Since nutrition labels typically do not list trans fatty acid amounts, look for term "partially hydrogenated" to disclose its presence

RULE #5) RUN Nolvadex with every cycle (w/ or w/out other anti-E’s)The selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) act like estrogen in bone and cardiovascular tissue and block estrogenic effects in the breast SERMs decrease LDL and cholesterol levels. GREAT TRICK when used with highly androgenic gear!


RULE #6) USE LIVER DETOXIFIERS year round even if NOT on orals! (Ala, thistle, tylers, liv 52, NAC, etc) are NO-BRAINERS here. Enabling your liver to function optimally, proper cholesterol metabolism and emulsification can take place.


RULE #7) EXERCISE (cardio/whatever) just be sure to “stay active” other than JUST bodybuilding. Cardiovascular exercise is GREAT for keeping the heart healthy and strengthening circulation.“Reducing the risk of heart attack and other complications of heart disease, cholesterol-lowering drugs are good, but a combination of medications, diet and exercise is better, new research suggests. In a study of people with heart disease, those who took cholesterol-lowering drugs called statins, stuck to a very-low-fat diet and exercised regularly were 67% less likely to have a heart attack or stroke or to die during the 5-year study than people who only took statins.”SOURCE: Journal of the American College of Cardiology 2003;41:263-274.
For MORE...: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles...rs-runners.html

Drveejay’s SUPPLEMENT LIST (in order of importance)

SUPP # 1) Policosanol It is a natural supplement derived from sugar cane. The main ingredient is octacosanol. Octacosanol is an alcohol found in the waxy film that plants have over their leaves and fruit. The leaves and rinds of citrus fruits contain octacosanol, and so does wheat germ oil.

Policosanol has been shown to normalize cholesterol as well or better than cholesterol-lowering drugs, without side effects such as liver dysfunction and muscle atrophy.Efficacy and safety have been proven in numerous clinical trials, and it has been used by millions of people in other countries. Policosanol lowers harmful LDL-cholesterol and raises protective HDL-cholesterol. HDL-cholesterol removes plaque from arterial walls.

Policosanol also inhibits the oxidation of dangerous LDL-cholesterol4 which promotes the destruction of blood vessels by creating a chronic inflammatory response. Oxidized LDL can also provoke metalloproteinase enzymes. These enzymes promote blood vessel destruction, partly by interfering with HDL’s protective effect. Studies show that rats treated with policosanol have fewer foam cells, reflecting less inflammatory response causing less blood vessel destruction.

Healthy arteries are lined with a smooth layer of cells so that blood can race through with no resistance. One of the features of diseased arteries is that this layer becomes thick and overgrown with cells. As the artery narrows, blood flow slows down or is blocked completely. Policosanol can stop the proliferation of these cells in much the same was as lipid-lowering drugs.

Policosanol also inhibits the formation of clots, and may work synergistically with aspirin in this respect. In a comparison of aspirin and policosanol, aspirin was better at reducing one type of platelet aggregation (clumping together of blood cells). But policosanol was better at inhibiting another type. Together, policosanol and aspirin worked better than either alone.
Thromboxane is a blood vessel-constricting agent that contributes to abnormal platelet aggregation that can cause a heart attack or stroke. Significant reductions in the level of thromboxane occur in humans after two weeks of policosanol.

www.lifeextension.com/references.)

SUPP # 2) Red yeast rice. It is one of the better studied of these cholesterol-lowering supplements. There have been a number of clinical studies both in China, where it originated, and in the United States, showing that people who consume this red yeast rice along with a sensible diet can see a reduction in their cholesterol levels. It’s pretty powerful stuff because it contains a chemical called lovastatin. The same active ingredient found in a popular prescription drug used to lower cholesterol. That similarity has caused the FDA to take action against one company (go figure!). Red yeast rice also seems to have very few side effects.

SUPP # 3) Phyto-Sterol Complex It is 100% vegetable derived and provides naturally-occurring sterols including: Beta Sitosterol, Campesterol, and Stigmasterol. Similar in action to the SERMS (nolvadex) Phytoestrogens are plant substances that have weak estrogenic activity in some tissues and block the effects of estrogen in others. They are found in herbs and plant foods, especially soybeans. Soybeans are rich in isoflavones, particularly genistein and daidzein. The FDA stated that foods containing soy protein included in a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol may reduce the risk of CHD by lowering blood cholesterol levels. The FDA has authorized use of labeling health claims about the role of plant sterol or plant stanol esters in reducing the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) for foods containing these substances. This interim final rule is based on FDA's conclusion that plant sterol esters and plant stanol esters may reduce the risk of CHD by lowering blood cholesterol levels.

SUPP # 4) Vitamin E (tocopherol). It seems to interfere with the liver's ability to make cholesterol. Vitamin E is an anti-oxidant that protects cell membranes and other fat-soluble parts of the body, such as LDL Cholesterol (the “bad” cholesterol), from damage. Only when LDL is damaged does cholesterol appear to lead to Heart disease and vitamin E is an important antioxidant protector of LDL. Several studies have reported that 400 to 800 IU of natural vitamin E per day reduces the risk of heart attacks.

SUPP # 5) Lecithin It is a lipotropic (a fat emulsifier). Its primary function is to metabolize fat and cholesterol, so that it does not settle in the artery wall or in the gall bladder. Many of the positive effects of lecithin consumption are based on the fact that lecithin is a major source of choline. Choline is a lipotropic substance… As choline increases fat metabolism it has been shown that it lowers blood cholesterol.

Other “Maybe’s” with “good potential”

Garlic I’m slowly becoming skeptical after reading MANY well documented studies conveying that Garlic/Allicin is “decent at first” but essentially USELESS After 90 days! But until I read more CONCLUSIVE evidence, I will not totally dismiss its benefits. Here’s ONE example: http://www.berkeleywellness.com/htm...GarlicPills.php

Guggul Is a resin from the guggul tree, has been used for more than 2,000 years in India to treat a range of disorders. In the 1980s, an extract of the resin--dubbed gugulipid--began to be marketed as a cholesterol-lowering agent. The plant compound's mode of action is quite different from that of cholesterol-lowering statin drugs. This means that it or other compounds that work similarly could potentially be used in combination with statins. Some of guggul's active components, guggulsterones, work by blocking a substance that stops the body from getting rid of cholesterol. Statins, on the other hand, block the body from making more cholesterol.In addition to lowering cholesterol, guggul has anti-inflammatory activity. The dosage of guggulsterones is 25 mg two or three times daily. Most extracts contain 2.5–5% guggulsterones and can be taken daily for 3 to six months as a cholesterol lowering agent.

Alfalfa leaf Animal studies show that alfalfa leaf reduces blood cholesterol and plague deposits on artery walls.

Green barley has been used for centuries because of its high content of vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, enzymes, chlorophyll, various antioxidants, and many unknown natural substances with powerful properties. Has been shown to lower LDL (bad cholesterol) levels. Known to lower blood sugars and insulin levels in clinical studies.

Selenium It is the oxidized form of low-density lipoproteins (LDL, often called "bad" cholesterol) that promotes plaque build-up in coronary arteries. Selenium is one of a group of antioxidants that may help limit the oxidation of LDL cholesterol and thereby help to prevent coronary artery disease.

Inositol-Hexaniacinate is a form of Vitamin B-3 (but more superior). It assists in the breakdown and utilization of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates. It also reduces serum lipids. Unlike niacin which may cause flushing, headaches, and stomachaches, Inositol-Hexaniacinate is almost always safe although some rare liver problems have occurred at amounts in excess of 1,000 mg per day. Due to possible hepatotoxic effects, I do NOT recommend straight Niacin. High doses of Niacin can also be responsible activating peptic ulcers, impairing glucose tolerance, and precipitating gouty attacks. And many niacin-takers suffer from flushing, headaches, nausea, heartburn, and diarrhea. There are better choices—above.
 
I bet the dietician will give you a sheet with foods to avoid...it'll say you can eat 3 eggs per week etc, one avacado ...- it'll piss you off.

I saw a dietician after my cholesterol was jacked, I still continued to eat 5-6 eggs a day, a ton of anpb, more fruits and vegetables, flax etc. and then when I retested I was fine. I bet the dietician wondered how my cholesterol could be so jacked because I was so knowledgable about diet.
 
anyone know about those additional tests my doctor ordered on the blood work form though?


What I'm primarily scared of is that my doctor will hint to my dad that I might be on roids... my dad is very health conscious... although he is overweight.. but he is healthy.. he has an excellent lipid profile.. and jogs all the time... so I can't exactly dismiss my bad cholesterol until I'm done with the cycle.. hes going to keep nagging me... and alot at that.
 
Genesis said:
Nolvadex is not an option for me.. it might fuse growth plates

BRO! You're concerned about growth plates and you're doing winny? winny (and other androgens) will prematurely fuse epiphyses at least as good and probably way better.


Genesis said:
Ok, did my blood test today.. should have results in 1-2 days.. now.. my doctor on the bottem of the blood work form requested some additional tests called Apo B or something like that.. I asked the lady drawing my blood what it was and she wasn't sure.. she said it might be some kind of protein...
.............. Could he be checking for protein synthesis or something that may indicate some type of roid?


Thanks

Apo b level is used to further determine risk of developing arthereosclosis. BUT may be a backdoor to detecting AAS use since it's known Apo b levels can be elevated with use of androgens. here's the last "get out of jail free" excuse card u get. Apo b levels can ALSO BE ELEVATED WITH AN ULTRA HIGH FAT DIET . so if its high.......you pigged out on fried Peking duck right before the test right? And washed it down with those 1-TU's :D .


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geoboy said:
BRO! You're concerned about growth plates and you're doing winny? winny (and other androgens) will prematurely fuse epiphyses at least as good and probably way better.


Whatt!??? Please explain.. I've done alot of reading into this subject.. and believe me when I say alot because not many people have knowledge about this subject matter.. as almost everyone on any board using AAS has finished growing vertically.

Androgens (specifically Anavar) has often been used to actually help young boys grow.. to speed up vertical growth..... estrogen is the regulator in closing growth plates... how would winny close my growth plates?




Apo b level is used to further determine risk of developing arthereosclosis. BUT may be a backdoor to detecting AAS use since it's known Apo b levels can be elevated with use of androgens. here's the last "get out of jail free" excuse card u get. Apo b levels can ALSO BE ELEVATED WITH AN ULTRA HIGH FAT DIET . so if its high.......you pigged out on fried Peking duck right before the test right? And washed it down with those 1-TU's :D .




I see... thanks for the heads up.
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Universal question here.. I am seriously loving the hell out of the strength gains winny is giving me.. and I don't want to drop it.. but I may have to.. what would be an appropriate dose of winny to sub with EQ? 50mgs of winny=? 200mgs of EQ? 100mgs?
 
Genesis said:
Whatt!??? Please explain.. I've done alot of reading into this subject.. and believe me when I say alot because not many people have knowledge about this subject matter.. as almost everyone on any board using AAS has finished growing vertically.

Androgens (specifically Anavar) has often been used to actually help young boys grow.. to speed up vertical growth..... estrogen is the regulator in closing growth plates... how would winny close my growth plates?

I agree re the anavar, as its approved for pediatric use, and I recall specific studies and numerous mentions regarding the fact that its doesnt cause premature closure.

I also agree re estrogen & GPs, BUT.....I also remember seeing lots of other material saying that var is the only steroid that won't prematurely fuse plates [for example, see (f) growth deficits in http://www.steroidinformation.com/sideeffects.htm ]


best case scenario, perhaps more accurately it should say var is the only steroid that's been shown in scientific studies not to fuse GPs. If thats the case, Winny's lack of aromatization SHOULD mean that it also will not fuse plates, but there are no studies specifically demonstrating that. and thats a pretty high stakes inference you'd be making with something that important.

unless you have studies re specifically winny & GPs, maybe you should play it safe, and just switch to var esp if its the strength that u crave most. better safe than sorry.
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Ok.. maybe there aren't any studies at least that I'm aware of that specifically show winstrol does not close growth plates, HOWEVER, it is a scientific fact that estrogen is WHAT causes growth plate closure.. and that is why steroids cause premature closure.. because of estrogen and thats the only reason.

So its pretty safe to say that if it doesn't aromatize.. there isn't any danger..



Anyways, thanks for the concern though much appreciated.


I get my newest blood work monday, I will update.
 
Genesis said:
Ok.. maybe there aren't any studies ....................
So its pretty safe to say that if it doesn't aromatize.. there isn't any danger..

like I said, thats a reasonable inference, but an untested inference. but they're your ephiphyses :D .

anyways good luck.
 
geoboy said:
like I said, thats a reasonable inference, but an untested inference. but they're your ephiphyses :D .

anyways good luck.


I wouldn't say its untested.. I'm sure there are some hard facts out there...

Its pretty much generally accepted that steroids that aromatize are to blame for stunting growth...

I think the fact thats its not debated really gives it some water.


But anyways, thanks.
 
geoboy said:
I agree re the anavar, as its approved for pediatric use, and I recall specific studies and numerous mentions regarding the fact that its doesnt cause premature closure.

I also agree re estrogen & GPs, BUT.....I also remember seeing lots of other material saying that var is the only steroid that won't prematurely fuse plates [for example, see (f) growth deficits in http://www.steroidinformation.com/sideeffects.htm ]


best case scenario, perhaps more accurately it should say var is the only steroid that's been shown in scientific studies not to fuse GPs. If thats the case, Winny's lack of aromatization SHOULD mean that it also will not fuse plates, but there are no studies specifically demonstrating that. and thats a pretty high stakes inference you'd be making with something that important.

unless you have studies re specifically winny & GPs, maybe you should play it safe, and just switch to var esp if its the strength that u crave most. better safe than sorry.
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Just re-inforcing your point about Anavar being the only AAS to not close growth plates.

Here's the study:

1: Horm Res. 2003;59(6):270-5. Related Articles, Links


Androgen therapy in constitutional delay of growth.Lampit M, Hochberg Z.

Meyer Children's Hospital, Rambam Medical Center, Haifa, Israel.

BACKGROUND/AIMS: Two modalities of androgen therapy prevail in the treatment of constitutional delay of growth (CDG): monthly injections of testosterone or daily tablets of the non-aromatizable oxandrolone. The present study was undertaken to prospectively compare both compounds and dose. METHODS: Thirty patients with CDG were the subjects of this study. The protocol required that they all be at age 12-14 years with a bone age delay of more than 2 'years', height less than -2 SDS and growth velocity less than -0.5 SDS. The subjects were at a Tanner stage 1 or 2 and testicular volume were no larger than 4 ml. They were randomly assigned into 3 treatment groups: group 1 patients received monthly injections of 25 mg testosterone propionate-enanthate; group 2 patients received monthly injections of 50 mg testosterone propionate-enanthate; group 3 patients received oral oxandrolone at a weekly dose of 0.7 mg/kg. Treatment was given for a period of 6 months and follow-up commenced 6 months later and yearly thereafter for 2 years. RESULTS: Height velocity and height increased significantly only in groups 2 and 3. Bone age advanced most in group 2. Puberty progressed faster in that group as compared with group 3. The predicted adult height before and 2 years after completion of treatment remained unchanged in the two testosterone groups. It increased significantly in the oxandrolone group from a mean 169.8 cm before therapy to a mean 177.5 cm 2 years after completion of therapy. Peak GH levels were significantly higher on both testosterone 50 mg and oxandrolone, as compared to pretreatment levels. The increment was significantly greater in group 2 as was the increment in serum IGF-1 and IGFBP3. CONCLUSIONS: These results imply that 6 months of testosterone injections at a dose of 50 mg, but not 25 mg, is an effective and safe treatment for patients with CDG, with no considerable impact on final height prediction. On the other hand, daily oxandrolone treatment, starting at age 12-14 years, may increase the predicted final adult height. Copyright 2003 S. Karger AG, Basel
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 12784090 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Slightly funny conclusion though. it actually makes a semi-case for giving Anavar to children.. :)

But in conclusion, Anavar obviously does not close growth plates. Neither does testosterone, but in males above 20, I don't think this wouldbe the case.
 
How does that study prove that anavar is the only AAS that does not close growth plates...???



Also.. those studies although great for pondering on.. don't really apply to our situations as already mentioned...


AAS actually speeds up vertical growth.... at least most do..


Excess estrogen from aromatizing substances can cause plate early plate fusion though
 
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