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fleabag711

fleabag711

New member
Is it wrong to work out EOD on juice. Im currently not doing it this way, but I have been reading like 5 days should be taken off for recovery when doing mass workouts. Currently Im doing like 9 sets for chest at 6-8 reps each. Is this a good example I can use on other muscles. Im doing like 3 sets bench, 3 sets dumbells, and 3 sets incline. I used to work out every other day for years, but workout methods are different on juice? Is this right?? thanks in advance. Im running 500-600mg sustanon week, and 450mg deca durabollin week.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Eh, I don't even bother working out when I'm on. I'm getting a massive trap pump just typing this.

Here's a link from the sticky that might help:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461084
Click to expand...

A lot of information but mainly irrelevant opinion from someone whos upset at 200lb newbies etc.. Im not asking for a definitive answer as nobody has that, but maybe you can share your workout routines.. Their seems to be a lot of disagreement about works best.
 
I definitely understand your problem. Try running more like 6 sets of DB bench, supersetted w/ no more than 3 sets of DB flies. do that like every other week but don't start doing it for every body part or you're asking for trouble when running deca + sust. Trust me on that one. If you have to, try 4 sets for legs every other week or so.
 
You should know how to lift to maximize the effects from the hormones your putting into your body.

No one can tell you what's "best" there is no best... there are new routines and training styles... you should already know what's best for you and what set and rep ranges you respond best to.

Since you don't seem to know... I would just find a routine/training split online and do it.

You were begging for flames... hope my post helped you out a little bit though.
 
Protobuilder said:
I definitely understand your problem. Try running more like 6 sets of DB bench, supersetted w/ no more than 3 sets of DB flies. do that like every other week but don't start doing it for every body part or you're asking for trouble when running deca + sust. Trust me on that one. If you have to, try 4 sets for legs every other week or so.
Click to expand...

Wow. every other week. I don't doubt you, but just seems like a long time. I'm only on 8 week cycle. thanks proto.
 
sgtslaughter said:
You should know how to lift to maximize the effects from the hormones your putting into your body.

No one can tell you what's "best" there is no best... there are new routines and training styles... you should already know what's best for you and what set and rep ranges you respond best to.

Since you don't seem to know... I would just find a routine/training split online and do it.

You were begging for flames... hope my post helped you out a little bit though.
Click to expand...

Yeah I see what you are saying. My post probaly could have been better. I just want to hear from a few people and compare with what I read here.

C&P from anasci

Studies have cleary shown that nearly all the muscular hypertrophy experienced by bodybuilders occurs in the white (fast twitch) muscle fibers. fast twitch muscle fibers are simulated by explosive, power type exercises. Slow twitch muscle fibers (red) are worked with low intensity, aerobic type training. High repetition weight training works primarily red muscle fibers; they have little capacity for hypertrophy. Long distance runners are the extreme example of athletes who have fully developed slow twitch muscles. It is clear by looking at them that this type of work does not develop much muscularity, It has been my experience that the farther you get away from high rep weight training, the more you will GROW.

Another point related to training with heavy weights relates to muscle adaptation. The entire goal of weight training is to make muscles become adaptive to the stress of weight training. This adaption doesn't occur unless the stress of each workout is beyond what the muscle can get used. Slow twitch muscle fibers adapt to stress by becoming more metabolically efficient, fast twitch muscle fibers adapt by becoming larger each time they are forced to adapt. These fast twitch fibers do not ever fully become accustomed to being blasted with heavy weights, Thus, they
will continue to adapt (grow) when they are activated by the explosive lifting of heavy weights.

Another important point in building muscle size and strength is that recovery takes time. Remember that the workout is just the beginning, repair and growth follow as much as a week later. For this reason, we find lt unwise to train each body part more than once every five days. Every part of your body you should train once a week which is the best way to grow.
 
Protobuilder said:
I definitely understand your problem. Try running more like 6 sets of DB bench, supersetted w/ no more than 3 sets of DB flies. do that like every other week but don't start doing it for every body part or you're asking for trouble when running deca + sust. Trust me on that one. If you have to, try 4 sets for legs every other week or so.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's great advice, proto! But I thought cables crossovers are compatible with sust, and not flies? Am I wrong?
 
fleabag711 said:
Is it wrong to work out EOD on juice. Im currently not doing it this way, but I have been reading like 5 days should be taken off for recovery when doing mass workouts. Currently Im doing like 9 sets for chest at 6-8 reps each. Is this a good example I can use on other muscles. Im doing like 3 sets bench, 3 sets dumbells, and 3 sets incline. I used to work out every other day for years, but workout methods are different on juice? Is this right?? thanks in advance. Im running 500-600mg sustanon week, and 450mg deca durabollin week.
Click to expand...

Flebag, I am not saying this to be a dick or anything, I am saying it to try to help. Anybody who asks a training-related question like the one you just asked has no business using steroids. To put it nicely, it was a retarded question with no answer.

Why don't you start with some stats (height/weight/general body comp) and some lifts (full squat, bench, deadlift, military press, row). Have you made any progress naturally? My guess is no.

Solid training is solid training, regardless of whether or not you use steroids. If you're seriously gonna stick around then I'd like to see you do something productive. If you stick around, you'll understand why you got flamed to hell and back and you'll agree that you deserved it.

Check out some of the journals on here.....if you look at the sticky at the top of the training board, you'll see sample routines of members both 'on' and 'off'......I have a journal here.....so does blitz and Proto and just about everyone else who posted.....you can get some ideas from there....read the training sticky, and then ask any questions you may have.
 
fleabag711 said:
Is it wrong to work out EOD on juice. Im currently not doing it this way, but I have been reading like 5 days should be taken off for recovery when doing mass workouts. Currently Im doing like 9 sets for chest at 6-8 reps each. Is this a good example I can use on other muscles. Im doing like 3 sets bench, 3 sets dumbells, and 3 sets incline. I used to work out every other day for years, but workout methods are different on juice? Is this right?? thanks in advance. Im running 500-600mg sustanon week, and 450mg deca durabollin week.
Click to expand...

I tried this while on a big cycle and it worked great. I always liked to train Monday through Friday with one body part a day and KILL it. But the one on -one off works good as well. I would do 4 set 8-12 reps of - flat bench, incline DB, Decline DB, and peck-deck machine super-set with push-ups. :chomp:
 
BiggT said:
how can you live with yourself?????
Click to expand...

It's rough at times, but I've got plenty of Twinkies and strawberry milk (sweeted w/ sucralose, of course) to keep me happy. And I've had years of practice. :Chef:


I'm here to help you know.
 
Ask in the roid forum, they'll have some great routine suggestions for you. A 5 on, one off split would be the norm, as every 180lb roid guru knows the gospel - "you can't overtrain on juice!"

you train exactly the same when on as off, the only difference is the weights are heavier. Or you piss away hundreds of dollars and risk potential health problems for nothing by doing the kind of limp-dick M&F split that is popular outside of this forum.
 
Some good advice I heard from HST juicers:

When you combine good training with juice and good eating, the gains are huge, and they tend to support strength gains that can be dangerous.

So what those guys do is, they know what their maxes are before running the cycle. They'll run the weight progression until they hit their maxes and just stay there, not surpassing them. But they'll increase the reps as they can.

So they might end up doing like 15 rep sets with their previous 5RM. Then when they go off juice, they kick in the heavier weights with negatives and stuff. It's supposed to offset the typical muscle loss in PCT by also giving the muscles high stimulation from PR-level weights.

Oh, also you can work out as frequently as you feel you can recover. If you're on juice, why waste it.

i do however echo the others' concerns. We worry that someone who is asking such basic questions about training is similarly uninformed about proper steroid use, something that is definitely risky to play around with.
 
Then when they go off juice, they kick in the heavier weights with negatives and stuff.
Click to expand...

sounds like a great way to get hurt, post cycle your injury risk is much higher & pushing it like that is a guarenteed way to blow something (almost every injury I've sustained has been a result of heavy training post cycle)


Steroids do NOT increase recovery ability much beyond what you already have, if you have a low-average recovery ability it is perfectly possible to overtrain very quickly even on large blast cycles.. it took me a long time to learn that lesson. Now I actually do fewer work sets because the load & intensity is higher and that means for a longer recovery.

I just noticed the poster is doing a gram a week.. nice starting dose! :worried:
 
Tweakle said:
I just noticed the poster is doing a gram a week.. nice starting dose! :worried:
Click to expand...
no no tweakle! don't you know he's lots of experience lifting and many cycles behind him. he also has trains balls to the wall, and eats a ton... and he's got 20" arms too.
but seriously, casualbb, you mention turning a 5 RM into a 15RM on juice... i don't even think that's possible for anyone but a novice lifter.
 
casualbb said:
Some good advice I heard from HST juicers:

When you combine good training with juice and good eating, the gains are huge, and they tend to support strength gains that can be dangerous.

So what those guys do is, they know what their maxes are before running the cycle. They'll run the weight progression until they hit their maxes and just stay there, not surpassing them. But they'll increase the reps as they can.

So they might end up doing like 15 rep sets with their previous 5RM. Then when they go off juice, they kick in the heavier weights with negatives and stuff. It's supposed to offset the typical muscle loss in PCT by also giving the muscles high stimulation from PR-level weights.

Oh, also you can work out as frequently as you feel you can recover. If you're on juice, why waste it.

i do however echo the others' concerns. We worry that someone who is asking such basic questions about training is similarly uninformed about proper steroid use, something that is definitely risky to play around with.
Click to expand...


why would anyone ever try to use heavier weights when they go off? this has got to be the most rediculous advice that I have ever heard. when you come off, you are more likely to get injured. training needs to be backed off when you are off. heavier weight should be used when on. this does not mean that you can work out 6 days per week, balls to the wall. it just means that you should push the weigh (poundage wise) up while on, but not alter your work out frequency
 
maybe i wasn't clear.

the rationale is that it isn't dangerous because you're never much surpassing the maxes you've established before the cycle. they save the "hey im bigger, lets see how strong i got" for after the recovery phase.

of course i've never juiced, I'm just relaying what has worked for some people. fyi arms probably hovering around 13" or so right now, probably because I haven't worked out in awhile. but hey, if you feel that your information is only legitimate from big people, thats your prerogative
 
casualbb said:
of course i've never juiced, I'm just relaying what has worked for some people. fyi arms probably hovering around 13" or so right now, probably because I haven't worked out in awhile. but hey, if you feel that your information is only legitimate from big people, thats your prerogative
Click to expand...
easy bro, i'm not sure illum is saying that at all :)
 
casualbb said:
maybe i wasn't clear.

the rationale is that it isn't dangerous because you're never much surpassing the maxes you've established before the cycle. they save the "hey im bigger, lets see how strong i got" for after the recovery phase.

of course i've never juiced, I'm just relaying what has worked for some people. fyi arms probably hovering around 13" or so right now, probably because I haven't worked out in awhile. but hey, if you feel that your information is only legitimate from big people, thats your prerogative
Click to expand...

The only legitimate advice on lifting is from big people - period ?

I take some advice from my wife and she is only 120lbs. Not lifting or AAS advice, but more so where we should eat, etc....... :p
 
casualbb said:
maybe i wasn't clear.

the rationale is that it isn't dangerous because you're never much surpassing the maxes you've established before the cycle. they save the "hey im bigger, lets see how strong i got" for after the recovery phase.

of course i've never juiced, I'm just relaying what has worked for some people. fyi arms probably hovering around 13" or so right now, probably because I haven't worked out in awhile. but hey, if you feel that your information is only legitimate from big people, thats your prerogative
Click to expand...


No, I dont think that only legitimate information comes from big people.

I think that only legitimate information comes from people who have experience. someone who has never juiced has no business trying to tell others how to go about doing a cycle, and how to train when they are on.
 
actually my comment (info legitimate from big people) was directed at silvershadow, who seemed more interested in my physique than what i was saying.

i have no beef with you illuminati :) although, looking back to my first message, where exactly did I tell anybody how to train? i'm just throwing it out there, "hey, this is how some people do it. they seem to be successful in achieving their goals while avoiding injury"

just trying to have a discussion, cheers people.

oh, and just for the record, I'm small. carry on.
 
casualbb said:
actually my comment (info legitimate from big people) was directed at silvershadow, who seemed more interested in my physique than what i was saying.

i have no beef with you illuminati :) although, looking back to my first message, where exactly did I tell anybody how to train? i'm just throwing it out there, "hey, this is how some people do it. they seem to be successful in achieving their goals while avoiding injury"

just trying to have a discussion, cheers people.

oh, and just for the record, I'm small. carry on.
Click to expand...

i aint got no beef with you either. I was just clarifying my point
 
lol, DBBT gave me red karma for this.....I thought it was helpful. I guess the c and c fun will make its way over here.
 
BiggT said:
lol, DBBT gave me red karma for this.....I thought it was helpful.
Click to expand...

Hey . . . me too. Maybe it was b/c you didn't mention precisely how many sets of flies you should do when using dbol. Don't worry, T. You've got a lot to learn. Pretty soon, you'll be training w/ the best of 'em.
 
Protobuilder said:
Hey . . . me too. Maybe it was b/c you didn't mention precisely how many sets of flies you should do when using dbol. Don't worry, T. You've got a lot to learn. Pretty soon, you'll be training w/ the best of 'em.
Click to expand...


lol....we all got bombed....cool. I gave him green K though, I am a lover not a fighter.
 
I could give two shits what my "k" looks like. Lol I guess to some people, it's like their dog -- pet it and they're happy, kick it and they're sad. LoL
 
BiggT said:
lol, DBBT gave me red karma for this.....I thought it was helpful. I guess the c and c fun will make its way over here.
Click to expand...

Ditto. It's ashame that sense of humor hasn't made its way over.
 
I'd diffuse you all but bombs are flying everywhere at the mo and there could be a fresh batch all around tomorrow and I'm away from home until Monday. Take pity on those viscious C&C Karma whores, they're all hurting.

Original Poster: if this is your first cycle, stop and rethink whether you're ready for gear. Mixing 2 compounds at that dosage could be unwise. Running anything like that dosage without a sound training background is asking for trouble.
 
I don't really understand the idea of it, but from what I can see... people who enjoy talking about nothing in particular, are 'bombing' the people who want to talk about weight training on a weight training message board. How accurate is that?

Also, they do realize that you can just highlight the text, right?
 
lol....I thought they didn't like our advice.....I couldn't care less about karma, hell, just disable it for anything on the training board, no nonsense training discussions are where it should be.
 
nothing like seeing grown men stain their panties with excitement over bombing.

It would be nice if all the fagginess from the other forums didn't apply here, but I guess spellwin had bills to pay & there's apparently people pathetic enough to pay money for 'karma priviliges' on a messageboard. Life must be a rollercoaster of excitment for those lucky individuals.

:rainbow:
 
FFQuads said:
Why did DBBT give me a bomb? What does this mean?
Click to expand...
It's because of the change in the karma system. Positive hits come out your own stash now. This means people can't hit each other up and create wealth like they used to like they used to. On the other hand, it costs nothing to give negative karma. What some of the K millionaires started doing, then, is hit all non-platinum members with red, which if the negative hit is great enough, will give you a bomb. Now they've increased their wealth by relative terms over yours instead of in absolute terms. It's not personal, just some campus fraternity fun.
 
fortunatesun said:
It's because of the change in the karma system. Positive hits come out your own stash now. This means people can't hit each other up and create wealth like they used to like they used to. On the other hand, it costs nothing to give negative karma. What some of the K millionaires started doing, then, is hit all non-platinum members with red, which if the negative hit is great enough, will give you a bomb. Now they've increased their wealth by relative terms over yours instead of in absolute terms. It's not personal, just some campus fraternity fun.
Click to expand...

Can I do some keg stands now? LOL..... ;)
 
Geez man, I don't even know where to start. Biggt gave you some solid advice. Read those stickys. They are there for a reason. I would also get off that cycle and do pct asap. If you can't put together a well thought out program for yourself, then you really aren't ready for any 'aids'.
 
I got bombed too (diffused, thanks).

They should probably rename karma to something else because it has nothing to do with commenting on whether a post was good or bad. Having to deal with bombs in the training forum is a joke.

I hate to see this board going downhill as it's the only one I visit and there are some good people in this forum.
 
Tweakle said:
nothing like seeing grown men stain their panties with excitement over bombing.

It would be nice if all the fagginess from the other forums didn't apply here, but I guess spellwin had bills to pay & there's apparently people pathetic enough to pay money for 'karma priviliges' on a messageboard. Life must be a rollercoaster of excitment for those lucky individuals.

:rainbow:
Click to expand...

LOL, here is the gist of a conversation from C and C about bombing people randomly.....a couple of C and C fags got into a cat fight....I will paraphrase as this is for entertainment and I don't care to dig for the original thread, lol. .

Fag # 1: Fuck you, I'm more jacked than you'll ever be, and I am hotter and better lookin'.

Fag # 2: No dood, fuck you, I have the sexiest pec/shoulder tie-ins at the raquet club, and the C and C chikks dig me more.

Fag # 1: Up urs, man, I met a hot C and C chick offline, **EDIT**(she most likely turned out to be a 52 year old truck driver from North Dakota named Eustace)**EDIT**, and we did it , and the pics she posted are way hotter than the chikks who dig you.

Fag # 2: Skreww u dude, I bench more and wear way more expensive shirtzz and am way more handsomer!!

.....I really think to keep this sort of faggery off the training board, they should disable Karma, bombing, and everything else that wreaks of gayness and prompts pansies to post, just for the training forum.
 
anotherbutters said:
I got bombed too (diffused, thanks).

They should probably rename karma to something else because it has nothing to do with commenting on whether a post was good or bad. Having to deal with bombs in the training forum is a joke.

I hate to see this board going downhill as it's the only one I visit and there are some good people in this forum.
Click to expand...

Ja, that was my thinking. I figured the regular posters at least deserved the heads up. We've got rather a piss-ant arsenal to go after these guys. Hopefully they'll understand we aren't part of the problem and that we're doing our best to rid the board of bloat as well. Anthrax Invasion was the only real source of conflict we had with the other members. Perhaps things can now be more live and let live.


:bfold:
 
Fleabag, sorry your thread got out of control.....if you still want lifting routine advice start a new one and I will be more than happy to offer my input (if you want it of course).
 
LMAO! Nice one, T. Now tell us how you really feel. LoL I agree w/ you 100%. B/c of this douchebaggery, I went to C&C to see how the other side lives. It really is a bizaare world of basement-dwelling, trash-talking losers worried about the artifical concept known as "karma." I oughta' invent something called "gamboozle" and see if those idiots go to great lengths trying to achieve "gamboozle." Loooo-suh-er.
 
BiggT said:
Fleabag, sorry your thread got out of control.....if you still want lifting routine advice start a new one and I will be more than happy to offer my input (if you want it of course).
Click to expand...

I wonder how long it's going to take before I spread enough karma to give to biggt again.
 
casualbb said:
actually my comment (info legitimate from big people) was directed at silvershadow, who seemed more interested in my physique than what i was saying.

i have no beef with you illuminati :) although, looking back to my first message, where exactly did I tell anybody how to train? i'm just throwing it out there, "hey, this is how some people do it. they seem to be successful in achieving their goals while avoiding injury"

just trying to have a discussion, cheers people.

oh, and just for the record, I'm small. carry on.
Click to expand...
ok... but my comment on "your" physique was not directed at you... it was directed at the thread starter... i've been around here some time and i've seen your advice and i have respect for you... no hard feelings :)
 
LoL. First let me say that I don't claim to know a lot about hormones or it's derivatives. I have probaly spent more hours than most people reading about everything from synovex to tren. Let me mention PCT~ Did I get your attention?? SEE YEAH I read about that too. J/K
But I know enough to know that I merely have a glimpse (lot of stuff is theoretical or personal experiences that people post) Don't be naive because you read about anabolics and think that you are theirfore qualified to take them! That's meant to apply to whoever told me not to take hormoes. A lot of people on here like to stroke their ego when they get a little knowledge (I.E. tell others they dont know anything or ask them if they know what PCT is? lol
Back to the workout thing? Thanks to those with relevant suggestions. I guess I was trying to get an idea about recovery and juice. I've never really been in this training section before. Look-- Im not saying I don't know what works best for me. I do. Usually I'm good and recovered after 2 days, but lately I've talked to people in the gym that are all pretty big people and I started to wander if I'm doing shi* to the maximum potential. I got a good routine though that Im following now and I think I got my answer now.

Monday- chest (incline-bench-dumbells-decline)
tuesday-bi's,tri's,shoulders, lats
wednsday-calves/legs
thursday- I rerun monday
friday- rerun tuesday
OF couse it's not always followed exactly this way.
 
Last edited:
I still think you're doing an obscene amount of gear for a first cycle and too many compounds but that's your choice and you, in all likelyhood, will be just fine. The reason people advocate taking gear moderately and steadily is that things can go wrong and, without experience behind you, things are likely to get worse when they do go wrong.

Regarding your workout on gear, aas will enable you to recover better, both between sets and between workouts. It still takes about as long to recover as normally but you recover a lot more. Muscles still take around 48 hours to do their basic recovery but your nervous system and general energy will recover much better.

You still need to monitor your fatigue levels since you can get into overtraining on gear but it does mean that you can take multiple heavy sessions in a week but maybe not every week, things like that. Basically, train like you're on steroids because you are but keep an eye on your recovery because it is still limited. Other than that, do what you will.

That covers the juice-and-training side. Concerning the training itself, think about what you're after. Take a good read around some of the many posts and logs pertaining to progressive resistance training and read the training stickies.
 
I agree with blutwump and others on the AAS issue. The better you're informed, the better and safer your results will be.

As to your training, if you know what type of approach works for you, I'd say stick with it as long as you're making progress. Being on gear doesn't mean you've got to do something different.

The most important thing I've learned about training is listening to my own body. While on gear, you'll probably be able to do more, and more often. But listen to your body and make sure you balance training, nutrition and rest carefully.
 
fleabag711 said:
LoL. First let me say that I don't claim to know a lot about hormones or it's derivatives. I have probaly spent more hours than most people reading about everything from synovex to tren. Let me mention PCT~ Did I get your attention?? SEE YEAH I read about that too. J/K
But I know enough to know that I merely have a glimpse (lot of stuff is theoretical or personal experiences that people post) Don't be naive because you read about anabolics and think that you are theirfore qualified to take them! That's meant to apply to whoever told me not to take hormoes. A lot of people on here like to stroke their ego when they get a little knowledge (I.E. tell others they dont know anything or ask them if they know what PCT is? lol
Back to the workout thing? Thanks to those with relevant suggestions. I guess I was trying to get an idea about recovery and juice. I've never really been in this training section before. Look-- Im not saying I don't know what works best for me. I do. Usually I'm good and recovered after 2 days, but lately I've talked to people in the gym that are all pretty big people and I started to wander if I'm doing shi* to the maximum potential. I got a good routine though that Im following now and I think I got my answer now.

Monday- chest (incline-bench-dumbells-decline)
tuesday-bi's,tri's,shoulders, lats
wednsday-calves/legs
thursday- I rerun monday
friday- rerun tuesday
OF couse it's not always followed exactly this way.
Click to expand...
if you know everything already + we have big egos and imagine we know everything when in reality we just know theory, then why are you even bothering to ask these questions?!
i can understand you doing this the first time when you started this thread. but now you've gotten your answers and you choose to rubbish it and state that your right. please post up your stats and your lifting history. reading general steroid profiles (which are posted on hundreds of sites on the internet - most of them are copy/paste efforts from the other sites) neither entitles me nor you to imagine that we know everything about them. now if you want to insist that you know about juice, and you still want to waste your own money thats your business. and i'm not even refering to the potential hazards of using which you already know all about and we know only theoretically. and your also free to believe that you know about training in the first place...
 
I didn't mean it like that. Everything is theory in life- even whatever I know. I agree that Listening to your body is the best thing. I couldn't agree with you moew blutwump appreciate your insight.
 
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