bodybuilder vs. powerlifter

[ZGzaZ]

Often times I hear the views on diff exercises, hand placement, grib distance, style are all affected by either if someone is a powerlifter or a bodybuilder. Now, I understand that the two groups main goals are different, but what really determines if someone is a powerlifter or a bodybuilder? Lets take two members for example, say BFold, and Needsize...what are the two main differences between these twos training that sets them in different classes? other than the obvious that Bfold does strongman type training too? Is it just the fact that Bfolds goals are not looking great and more set at lifting bigger weights? or are there other differences? .... and close to the subject...do most powerlifters not do direct arm work?

 

[skaman607]

yes, and they both use different styles of training to help them achieve their goals.

 

[spatts]

Arm work? Powerlifters have some of the best triceps and forearms out there, and even though (most I know) never train their bis, they still grow...same for chest and quads.

Funny how powerlifters are usually good at putting on size (LBM), and getting strong, but there are alot of bodybuilders out there that are very weak, and aren't really growing alot either. I think the biggest difference is what people THINK they need to do to meet their goals. If I ever compete in BB again, I will continue to train like a powerlifter.

You put ANY powerlifter on a cutting diet, and the bodybuilding world turns upside-down.

 

[louden_swain]

You put ANY powerlifter on a cutting diet, and the bodybuilding world turns upside-down.

I disagree, most powerlifters I have known and seen compete in a bodybuilding show have been blown off the stage. There are a lot of strong bodybuilders out there.

 

[spatts]

I have always witnessed the exact opposite, and feel that ex-powerlifters make some of the very best bodybuilders. What bodybuilders call "muscle maturity" is what powerlifters develop years earlier due to their training. You might want to double check the back grounds on the top dogs. I think you'll find that MOST of them were either powerlifters, or guys that don't draw a line between form and function...in other words, they are big and lift maximal weight too.

 

[louden_swain]

Look at Tom Platz. . .the man had 34 inch legs in his prime as a bodybuilder. He was able to squat well over 600lbs for reps and squat 405lbs for over 30 reps. He could perform 10 straight minutes of squatting with 225lbs. Show me a powerlifter that has the legs the size of Platz. Show me a powerlifter that can perform those types of reps. . . they can't because they are concerned with moving a weight from point A to B. This is a strength that powerlifters lack. . . .endurance. . repeated strength for multiple times.

 

[spatts]

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with anyone about who's stronger etc. I just answered the question. What's the difference? The way they think they need to train.

Think about how strongmen train. Strength, speed, endurance, etc...you don't see them repping out curls. Look at B. You put a clean guy like B on Platz's cycle, and a CKD, and Platz wouldn't look so extraordinary.

 

[bignate73]

Look at Tom Platz. . .the man had 34 inch legs in his prime as a bodybuilder. He was able to squat well over 600lbs for reps and squat 405lbs for over 30 reps. He could perform 10 straight minutes of squatting with 225lbs. Show me a powerlifter that has the legs the size of Platz.

and hes a really nice guy too. one of my friends trains with him.

 

[louden_swain]

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with anyone about who's stronger etc. I just answered the question. What's the difference? The way they think they need to train.

Think about how strongmen train. Strength, speed, endurance, etc...you don't see them repping out curls.

I understand. . .I was just going to say the same thing about getting into a pissing contest.

The fact of the matter is, that these are two different types of training and both are physically demanding. When I saw that clip of Goggins handling 1102. . . .I was truly impressed. Thick muscle development is also impressive.

I personally train as an all-around athlete (strength, size and endurance), but my body resembles a bodybuilder/collegiate wrestler physique.

 

[DBCooper]

And Platz got his ass handed to him by Fred Hatfield when it was time to do a single. Strength and endurance are different, pwlftrs build absolute strength and tendon/ligament strength, while bb build muscle size. I know a lifter who is a 165 and can rep out 100lb db's for over 30 reps, hell I can rep 225 out over 30 times and I barely ever do a set over 3 reps unless it's accesory work. Now show me a bb that can squat a grand- pull 900lbs or actually pass a mirror without a full posedown.

 

[spatts]

Same here...I have stated many times that I feel I get great results from WSB specifically because it demands speed, strength, endurance, etc. Not every powerliter does WSB, just like not every body builder is doing 3 x 15, two muscles a day. Those from each group that leave everything they've got on the platform seem to rise to the top, from what I've seen. Just like the example you gave.

 

[louden_swain]

actually pass a mirror without a full posedown.

I hate that. . . . .talk about cheesy and stupid looking.

 

[spatts]

 

[louden_swain]

And Platz got his ass handed to him by Fred Hatfield when it was time to do a single.

Of course!! This is Dr. Squat!!! I love reading his books because he has a strong scientific approach. Fred pulled of some freaky feats in his prime.

 

[DBCooper]

In his book it shows his heart stress test compared to a marathon runners, when under a light load his barely moved and the marathoners jumped up big time(can't remember the specific stuff- read it in hs). He did some good stuff imo. lol Dr. Squat- Cpt. Kirk- gotta love nick names. The Drunkin' Indian Geronimo has spoken lol.

 

[spatts]

What's Chuck's nickname?

...besides "human pitbull gone apeshit."

 

[DBCooper]

Mr. Vogelpohl sir.

 

[spatts]

That soun kina sexay.

 

[DBCooper]

I'm not sure how to respond to that ..... that really lost me

 

[spatts]

Nevermind me...I have a flaming skull cap fetish.

Did liftbig ever show him that pic of my deadlift with his face superimposed over mine? It's a hoot...

 

[DBCooper]

Not sure I'll see Monday. lol I think that's a new fetish to be logged also. He's a little serious tho so he might not have seen it.

 

[spatts]

Well, liftbig thought he'd get a kick out of it...

 

[DBCooper]

HAHAHAHAHAH, that's pretty good, lmfao.

 

[slobberknocker]

I'm glad this didn't turn into a powerlifter/bodybuilder pissing contest, lol.

It's all basically the same shit anyway. Show me a bodybuilder who doesn't train heavy with intensity, and a powerlifter who doesn't worry about his diet, and I'll show you two guys who will never win anything.


To the starter of this thread, I'm a powerlifter and yes I do work my biceps. You gotta have the guns, no matter what sport you compete in.

 

[spatts]

Unfortunately I don't know alot of bodybuilders that train heavy, or powerlifters that care about diet....beyond force feeding.


I'm going to have to disagree on plers that don't watch their diet not getting anywhere. DBC, what portion of a rat's ass do you think Lou or Chuck (or any of the guys you train with) give about diet?

 

[DBCooper]

Actually Chuck always has a 6-pack, he keeps lean to stay 220, Louie is keeping his sorta strict to be at 220 again so that's off. Now me on the other hand, I need to eat more consistant with less beer imo. Them and J. Stafford are the only ones that really watch what they eat(x bb ). Everyone else is a free for all unless dropping weight. Amy does sometimes to keep a low bdywt, that's usually the only reason anyone watches it.

 

[louden_swain]

What has happened to Anthony Clark these days?

 

[slobberknocker]

I'm going to have to disagree on plers that don't watch their diet not getting anywhere. DBC, what portion of a rat's ass do you think Lou or Chuck (or any of the guys you train with) give about diet?

Well, you may be right. But for me personally, I know that I make much better gains when I'm making sure that I'm getting enough protein, and overall calories. At least, that's how I account for the 120 lbs. I put on in the last 5 years (195-317).


If you can make gains just eating whatever you want, more power to you. I wish I was the same way. I'd certainly save money on groceries.

 

[spatts]

Slob, I watch what I eat meticulously. I am the weird one, though. When I order chicken, baked potato no toppping, and a side of green beans, I get taunted: "Pshhh...bodybuilder "

 

[DBCooper]

If you eat enough of EVERYTHING you don't worry about not enough protein or carbs, and Spatts that's ok if your a picky eater you have a big deadlift-that makes uo for it.

 

[needsize]

I agree with spatts that some of the best bodybuilders are ex powerlifters. My favourite has always been Franco Columbo, his thickness and proportions were awesome. This is why I try to train for functional strength as well as size, as I believe that they really do go hand in hand. The focus I place on strength training has had huge payoffs in size gains, especially in the core lifts like deads and squats

 

[Deepsquat]

And Platz got his ass handed to him by Fred Hatfield when it was time to do a single. [QUOTE/]

QAnd as I recall, Hatefield got his ass handed to him when they did reps with 600...didn't he eat it at around 8 reps ...Tomm went to around 15???
as the Bulgarian s ay " The body becomes its function "
In other words they both were good at wahat they did, becuase that is what they trained for.

 

[b fold the truth]

Hmmm...interesting thread here.

I don't care much what I look like or what I weigh...as long as I can be strong, fast, and good at the events. Instead of worrying about this tie-in and that tie-in...I worry about isolating my ENTIRE body on EVERY movement to make my ENTIRE body strong and fast.

The biggest difference...diet IMO. People assume that just because I don't really watch what I eat that I don't get enough protien or carbs in my diet... That is WRONG!!!! I get MORE than enough to be exact. I also eat a lot of vegetables, greens, etc...

Yesterday I drove with some friends to eat at a very special restaurant...and I had the Rib Eye steak (a FULL 16 oz, rare) fried potatoes, black eyed peas, sweet potato, beets, fried okra, rolls with sorgham molasses, mac and tomatoes, a TALL sprite and a TALL water. 2 Hours later...I was feeding myself again.

The 2nd biggest difference between a powerlifter and a bodybuilder...the strength athlete trains for speed and athletic performance of some sort. Looking good over performing good...or performing good over looking good. I choose performance because how I look will not make one single difference on how I place on contest day.

I believe that every bodybuilder could gain from training like a REAL powerlifter (head to toe) for at least 4 months out of the year. Time to quit isolating the outer head of the bicep...and time to start isolating the ENTIRE BODY with the squat/bench/dead.

B True

 

[needsize]

. I believe that every bodybuilder could gain from training like a REAL powerlifter (head to toe) for at least 4 months out of the year. Time to quit isolating the outer head of the bicep...and time to start isolating the ENTIRE BODY with the squat/bench/dead.

B True

I totally agree, thats why I stick to as many big compound movements as I can, and dont worry about cable this, and machine that.... I want function along with appearance, this could also be because I come from somewhat of a powerlifting background

 

[collegiateLifter]

You put ANY powerlifter on a cutting diet, and the bodybuilding world turns upside-down.

for what its worth, doggcrapp tended to echo this statement in a lot of the posts he's made.

 

[benchmonster]

Hmm,

Interesting thread. I will weigh in on this one too. I am a powerlifter, and while I do not eat clean (sorry Spatts, I know you have told me to eat better) I am very concerned about my diet none the less.

I eat at least 6 meals per day. I make sure that every single one of them has protein, preferably at least 35 to 40 grams per meal, and then whatever else falls in is fine too. As of this writing I am 238 to 240 lbs. I competed for over a year at 220, and have decided to move up a weight class.

Funny thing is, tho, even tho I am not going to be confused with a bodybuilder, I am not any fatter at 240ish than I was at 220ish. When I wake up in the morning I can see the top 2 to 4 abs outlined. As I eat and drink throughout the day, I see them less and less and by the time I roll into the rack I am a pudgy dough boy once again. Same for when I compete. I am waterlogged and smooth when lifting and that is best for me.

I have shared a couple of meals with Spatts (jealous?) and can attest to her bodybuilder-esque eating habits. But then again, I don't know too many ladies with thighs within an inch or two of my own, who have a 6 pack (this I am jealous of).

As for her training partner, The Project, who by the way eats way more than you would think. He just thought he was a big eater until he got to see Mr. Denny's himself (me) go at it. Ha ha. I can only imagine what going out to eat with DBCooper, or BFold or some of the big fellas here a bouts would be like.

And although it may not look like it, I do in fact train biceps. I find I have much less tendonitis when I train them, and who doesn't want a good looking set of guns. I may be hauling a keg instead of a 6-pack, but I still want some serious pipes to be sticking out of the sleeves of my shirt.

Oh, and Spatts is right re: cutting a powerlifter down and muscle mass. Even tho I am a fat ass right now. At five seven and around 15% bodyfat, if I cut to 5% (if that is possible for me) and lost 24lbs of fat I would be a ripped to the bone 216 lbs at five seven. Not pro bodybuilder stuff, but not too bad for a gym rat either.

B.

 

[TheProject]

As for her training partner, The Project, who by the way eats way more than you would think. He just thought he was a big eater until he got to see Mr. Denny's himself (me) go at it. Ha ha. I can only imagine what going out to eat with DBCooper, or BFold or some of the big fellas here a bouts would be like.

Oh no, I have no illusions about being a big eater.

When I'm around the Okie or Springfield crews, it just amazes me how much they can eat. I saw genemachine and kg18 go to TOWN at Del Taco in St. Louis...that was insane.

 

[louden_swain]

Damn it!!!! I am hungry!!! It is time to search the City of Norman for some food!!!

I am out of here!!

 

[spatts]

I have shared a couple of meals with Spatts (jealous?) and can attest to her bodybuilder-esque eating habits. But then again, I don't know too many ladies with thighs within an inch or two of my own, who have a 6 pack (this I am jealous of).

LOL...I can't tell if that's a compliment or not!

 

[vinylgroover]

It's all about genetics people.

It don't make a crap of difference how or why you train, the difference between one person and another has more to do with their genetics than whether they are a powerlifter or bodybuilder.

If you've got a 38 inch waist, high calves, high lats, poor inherent muscle separation etc, then you'll make a shit bodybuilder......i don't care how good a powerlifter you are.

A good powerlifter will make a good bodybuilder if he or she has the right genetics........they won't make a better bodybuilder simply because they have had a powerlifting background.

At the endof the day, it's all weightlifting.

ALL bodybuilders have used the deadlift, squat or bench at some stage in their career, just as powerlifters have.

 

[spatts]

It don't make a crap of difference how or why you train, the difference between one person and another has more to do with their genetics than whether they are a powerlifter or bodybuilder.

Hm...then I should be able to switch back to my 4 day high volume split, and still expect to beat my 1RM in my next comp because I have the genetics to be a powerlifter. Interesting. Wish someone had told me that 10 years ago.

 

[vinylgroover]

Hm...then I should be able to switch back to my 4 day high volume split, and still expect to beat my 1RM in my next comp because I have the genetics to be a powerlifter. Interesting. Wish someone had told me that 10 years ago.

You took me a little out of context. I was referring to powerlifters who switch over to become bodybuilders.

Spatts and other powerlifters answer me this.....why do Olympic weightlifters have far more aesthetically pleasing physiques than powerlifters and most natural bodybuilders.

After all, i would imagine they do little in the way of isolation work as well. Why then don't we all aspire to train like an Olympic weightlifter instead of either powerlifrters or bodybuilders.

 

[spatts]

You think CCJ is hotter than me?!?!?

That's it! CCJ, post up a bikini shot...I gotta see this!

 

[louden_swain]

Well, liftbig thought he'd get a kick out of it...

Spatts,

Looks like you got sunburned!!

 

[b fold the truth]

Spatts and other powerlifters answer me this.....why do Olympic weightlifters have far more aesthetically pleasing physiques than powerlifters and most natural bodybuilders.

Maybe because leverage isn't as much of an issue in OL lifting...maybe because they aren't using SUPER heavy weights on squats and deadlifts... Maybe...just maybe it is because their weight classes are normally a lot closer together than in powerlifting and they are constantly fighting to maintain a low bodyweight.

I still don't consider most OL lifters to have a better physique than powerlifters...they seem either a lot smaller or fat...just the same. Also note that most OL lifters...are VERY short too...

B True

 

[Tarheel]

I'll have to disagree Bfold.

Strength in the squat is needed for the recovery in both the clean & jerk and the snatch. Also, you can't deny the similarities in the deadlift and the first pull of an olympic lift.

Its not uncommon for the superheavies to squat in the upper 3 figures, some have been known to squat over a grand. Lots of heavy and superheavyweight olympic lifters can front squat over 300 kilos (660 lbs) and back squat over 400 (~880).

Just one example is Mark Henry, placed 10th in the Barcelona Olympics lifting as a superheavy for Team USA, has squatted over 1000 and deadlifted over 900. Shane Hammond, one of the US's top superheavies at the moment, has squatted 1008 lbs.

Raimonds Bergmanis has deadlifted 770 for 11 reps. This is from a man who's competed in 3 Olympic Games (92, 96, 00) in weightlifting.

 

[b fold the truth]

I'll have to disagree Bfold.

Strength in the squat is needed for the recovery in both the clean & jerk and the snatch. Also, you can't deny the similarities in the deadlift and the first pull of an olympic lift.

Its not uncommon for the superheavies to squat in the upper 3 figures, some have been known to squat over a grand. Lots of heavy and superheavyweight olympic lifters can front squat over 300 kilos (660 lbs) and back squat over 400 (~880).

Just one example is Mark Henry, placed 10th in the Barcelona Olympics lifting as a superheavy for Team USA, has squatted over 1000 and deadlifted over 900. Shane Hammond, one of the US's top superheavies at the moment, has squatted 1008 lbs.

Raimonds Bergmanis has deadlifted 770 for 11 reps. This is from a man who's competed in 3 Olympic Games (92, 96, 00) in weightlifting.

Mark Henry: Genetic freak with the drive and determination of a sloth. Great genetics...refuses to work hard for anything. He consistantly was beaten by much smaller people...his strength simply wasn't that good for an Olympic Lifter. 10th in the Olympics is good...but a long way away from the weights that the winners were using. Also...note that he is FAT!! I have met him and he is VERY fat...(refering back to the original topic).

Shane Hammond...didn't he do powerlifting meets? I don't know a lot about him to be honest.

Raimonds Bergmanis's 770 pull for 11...was not from the floor. It was a partial deadlift on a lever...WSM. He is a very freaky man...strength wise...but not a great squatter or bencher.

Seriously though...in the powerlifts...body weight and body leverage is needed on the squat/bench/dead. A very good way to add that body leverage is through gaining mass, fat, and water. Having the extra fat is a plus in powerlifting...it really isn't as much in OL lifting...

Does that make any sense?

B True

 

[vinylgroover]

Super heavyweights excluded, weightlifters in all other classes are generally far more 'muscular' than powerlifters, pound for pound. I would say they would also be nearly as strong.

That suggests to me that maybe training the way an Olympic lifter does is better than both bodybuilding and powerlifting from a muscularity and strength point of view, ie you get the best of both worlds.

 

[spatts]

I can't believe how far gone this thread is. The question was very basic...what makes a person a PLer or a BBer...GOAL. That's it. The other question was what the difference is between someone's training like Bfold and Needsize...volume, split, sport specific conditioning. This really wasn't a complicated question. Fun, but not complicated.

 

[fortifiediron]

I have always witnessed the exact opposite, and feel that ex-powerlifters make some of the very best bodybuilders. What bodybuilders call "muscle maturity" is what powerlifters develop years earlier due to their training. You might want to double check the back grounds on the top dogs. I think you'll find that MOST of them were either powerlifters, or guys that don't draw a line between form and function...in other words, they are big and lift maximal weight too.

Platz also trained with Hatfield and Simmions in his prime too. Platz came to Hatfield one day and asked him why his legs where not growing, hatfield changed that for him. If you do not believe me ask Hatfield.


Kc

 

[DBCooper]

Well I agree with B-fold again, and you always have to remember those Olympic lifters are drug free, so that makes them even better, oh I forgot isn't the U.S. OL the only ones in the world basicly that has out of season drug testing-now wonder we get our arses handed to us, when was the last gold medal the U.S. got in OL? think it was when Paul Anderson was still lifting makes you think uh. kinda ironic how even those 'drug tested guys' are just as strong as the untested.

 

[louden_swain]

Overall, interesting debates.

 

[benchmonster]

Spatts,

That was a big time compliment and you know it girly.

DB, ha ha, re: clean olympic lifters. That is a good one. Strange isn't it that we kick everyone's ass at almost every event in the olympics except those such as weightlifting?

And for whomever it is that thinks olympic lifters have better builds than powerlifters, give me a break!!! Have you ever seen the arms on an olympic lifter? With very few exceptions, they have very impressive backs and legs and tiny little arms. Not exactly a physique I would aspire to, but hey, maybe that is just me.

If you look at a lean powerlifter, and I am thinking like August Clark, Chuck Vogelpohl, Kenny Patterson at 220, Larry Pacifico (to go old school) and such, you will see amazing builds, tons of muscle everywhere.

And the difference between powerlifters and bodybuilders has something to do with genetics, sure, but it is mostly in the training. Sure, every bodybuilder at some time or another does the powerlifts, but there is a big difference between doing multiple sets of medium to high reps with 225 on the bench and benching over 500, 600, etc. for a single. Yeah they might both make you tired, but they will do vastly different things to your body.

B.

 

[coolcolj]

Spatts - I don't really consider myself a Oly lifter
I just wanna turn myself into an Animal
I personally think that the back developemnt that oly lifts bring, can't be matched by other exercises , especially for all the small muscles in the back.

To be fair having a big upper body for an oly lifter is a disadvantage, makes it harder from racking point of view and flexibility point of view. Especially big pecs - just try overhead squatting to see what I mean

sports specific. Having said that there are quite a few well built oly lifters - big weights make big muscles. There are also plenty of skinny powerlifters as well.

Genetics account for a lot.

Now throwers - are all explosive fast twitch people, they take the best bits of powerlifting and olylifting and add a whole lot of force training. Consequently they also quite big and powerful. Since there are no weight limits, they tend to be bulky - um fat, but the goal is to move implements far

But personally I feel throwers are the the what i call functional mass and power. they are big, strong and can jump high, far and run fast. An 8 feet standing long onto a 36 inch high box is pretty freaky...

 

[Tarheel]

Seriously though...in the powerlifts...body weight and body leverage is needed on the squat/bench/dead. A very good way to add that body leverage is through gaining mass, fat, and water. Having the extra fat is a plus in powerlifting...it really isn't as much in OL lifting...

Does that make any sense?

B True

I agree 100% with that statement. Leverage through added mass is much more advantageous in the 3 core powerlifts than it is in the classical weightlifts which have to be taken over the head to arms length.

 

[fortifiediron]

Shane Hammond squatted over 1000lbs he is far more impressive to me then Mark Henry. Shane can do a standing back flip and can one step and dunk a basketball and he is pushing his weight to near 400lbs. I think his vertical leap is 38''. Did I forget to mention he can snatch a 400lb barbell?



Kc

 

[fortifiediron]

In understanding how functional olympic lifting is think of this...

In the mexico city olympics they out jumped the jumpers and out sprinted the sprinters in the 25m and vertical leap.

There are 400lb mean doing backflips and dunking basketballs.

Countless #'s squat over 1000lbs with no suits,straps, or belts.

Kinda off topic, but Olympic lifting is actually a safer sport then bodybuilding and Powerlifting.


I have studies and stats to support everything i just said. If you want just ask me for them.


Kc

 

[spatts]

Have any of you taken into consideration that oly lifts are used by powrlifters all the time for accessory work? Just like someone mentioned that at some point everyone benches, squats, or deads (which I wish were even half true), powerlifters do oly moves for speed, isolation, etc... I totally credit hang snatches with giving me the upper back development I needed to hold a squat properly.

I also don't think it would be fair to compare all powerlifters to those that specifically train for speed, hypertrophy, etc... Hell, John Stafford did a 45" jump @ 282lbs, Dave Tate 43" @ 295lbs, Tilt Henry 38" @ 465lbs, and THE MAN Chuck V 38" @ 220lbs WITH the added resistance of a green band looped through his belt. These aren't lard asses by any stretch. I think that one of the reasons I see so many WSB lifters and strongmen cross competing is because both groups seem to want it all...speed, strength, conditioning, hypertrophy (the preferred form of leverage for any lifter), etc...

Likewise, oly lifting and pling both put massive focus on the posterior chain. What some plers may lack in speed, oly's lack in weight leverage. That still doesn't account for WSB plers that use leverage AND speed.

 

[vinylgroover]

Have any of you taken into consideration that oly lifts are used by powrlifters all the time for accessory work? Just like someone mentioned that at some point everyone benches, squats, or deads (which I wish were even half true), powerlifters do oly moves for speed, isolation, etc... I totally credit hang snatches with giving me the upper back development I needed to hold a squat properly.

Then why are Olympic lifters much more muscular. Sorry, but i disagree with DB Cooper. Pound for pound, Olympic lifters are more 'muscular' than powerlifters......at least the one's i've seen.

To benchmonster, you say Olympic lifters have very impressive backs and legs......throw in shoulders to the mix, but no arms. Well shit, last time i checked, legs, back and shoulders take up more than 2/3 of your physique......i wouldn't mind looking that impressive.

 

[spatts]

All you're saying, in this recurring statement, is that olys are leaner. No they don't have more muscle, they just have more muscle compared to fat. You're just talking about body fat %, and I think, to the best of my knowledge, you're the only one arguing that point.


...and you name high calves, high lats, poor inherent muscle separation, etc., but it's ok to only have 2/3 of a physique which includes no arms? Kinda odd logic.

 

[vinylgroover]

All you're saying, in this recurring statement, is that olys are leaner. No they don't have more muscle, they just have more muscle compared to fat. You're just talking about body fat %, and I think, to the best of my knowledge, you're the only one arguing that point.

One thing i don't understand, is that powerlifters keep harping on about how 'fat' they are. According to powerlifters, they have as much muscle as a bodybuilder or weightlifter, yet the fat obscures it. That's nonsense. Don't you guys have to make weight classes as well? What is the difference between an Olympic lifter and a powerlifter in terms of needing 'fat' to perform.

If it helps a powerlifter, why would it not help a weightlifter. Why does a weightlifter 'have' to be leaner?

I'm totally ignorant when it comes to powerlofting (or weightlifting for that matter), but it just doesn't make sense at all.

Can you see my point?

 

[crew9]

I think saying that a powerlifter can cut down and compete with a bodybuilder is a pretty ignorant statement. If thats true I could easily say that a bodybuilder could put on a lot of lbs. of fat and mop the floor with powerlifters. Yes some bodybuilders do have backgrounds in powerlifting. I can guarantee you though they didn't cut down from powerlifting and step on the pro circuit. Yes there are exceptions but most powerlifters cannot drop weight and compete with a bodybuilder.

 

[spatts]

One thing i don't understand, is that powerlifters keep harping on about how 'fat' they are. According to powerlifters, they have as much muscle as a bodybuilder or weightlifter, yet the fat obscures it. That's nonsense. Don't you guys have to make weight classes as well? What is the difference between an Olympic lifter and a powerlifter in terms of needing 'fat' to perform.

If it helps a powerlifter, why would it not help a weightlifter. Why does a weightlifter 'have' to be leaner?

I'm totally ignorant when it comes to powerlofting (or weightlifting for that matter), but it just doesn't make sense at all.

Can you see my point?

I think that I already answered this question....speed. Speaking from personal experience, there is a fine line where I'm so heavy I lose speed, and so light I lose weight leverage. As I put on LBM, I have to constantly keep track of this "breaking point." I think CCJ might even agree that it is easier to utilize the tool of speed when you're lighter...and olys are known for speed.

Crew9...you added to what was said, and then called it ignorant. No fair.

 

[vinylgroover]

I'm not convinced Spatts.

And.......the point of debating these things is to keep learning. I don't debate things here because i have nothing better to do

It's a shame we don't have weightlifters on here.

 

[casualbb]

I think there is ONE major difference between the two:

Major Difference:
Winning powerlifters are selected by muscle strength; winning bodybuilders are selected by muscle appearance.

World Champion powerlifters will have an extremeley high percentage of fast-twitch fibers and be genetically blessed with large frames and long tendon insertion distances.

World Champion bodybuilders will have gorgeous muscle shape, good proportions, and amazing symmetry.

Powerlifting and bodybuilding are only related in that both usually seek to increase muscle mass. Since muscle mass does directly cause strength, the biggest of both classes tend to be the strongest. But to compare them is silly because they have entirely different goals. The whole Platz vs. Hatfield debate is moot. Hatfield is a genetically gifted powerlifter, Platz a genetically gifted bodybuilder who also happens to be quite strong.

As to powerlifters dieting down for shows, I'd say that, on the whole, they don't compete. Why? They already have good genetics for strength. For them to have good genetics for muscle shape and body proportion on top of that is VERY unlikely.

-casualbb

 

[slobberknocker]

I'm not talking about anyone in particular, just in general: enough bullshit. Don't talk about it, be about it. If you say that a powerlifter could diet down and blow everybody off stage, do it. Go on a diet, compete in a show, and win. If you say that bodybuilders are just as strong as powerlifters, be about it. Compete in a meet, and win.



Also, it's not cool to talk shit about somebody unless you're standing face to face with them at the time, whether it be a member of this board, Mark Henry, or anyone else.


That's all.

 

[Tarheel]

Yes powerlifters have weight classes, but the range in the weight classes are typically a much larger range with fewer classes than Olympic lifters. That is one reason.

The main reason is, additional leverage from added mass can be used to your advantage to get weight off the floor, but added mass isn't going to help you get a weight to arms length over your head. And since this is generally the hardest part of the lift, its the most important.

Also, if you can jerk 250+ lbs to arms length overhead, you can probably make the first pull (up to about knee height, similar to a deadlift) of the clean or snatch very easily, so added leverage in deadlift isn't needed.

 

[fortifiediron]

Hey Tarheel nice sig.



Kc

 

[benchmonster]

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!

I forget what this damned thread even started about, but it gets increasingly frustrating.

OK, here goes. Powerlifting is about moving the maximum amount of weight possible in the 3 powerlifts. Nothing more. Powerlifting is not about hypertrophy, or getting cut or being lean, or for that matter being fat. It is about moving the most weight possible.

Olympic lifting is very similar to powerlifting in the sense that the only goal of the sport is to move maximal weights, this time in the 2 olympic lifts (snatch and clean and jerk)

Bodybuilding is about looking aesthetically pleasing to judges in a bodybuilding contest. That is all there is to it.

Strength sports (powerlifting, oly. lifting, strongman, highland games, field events, etc. . . ) have about as much in common with bodybuilding as Hydraulic Engineers have with Meteorologists. Sure they both go to school, or the gym, but that is about where the similarities end. Different goals and different ways of acheiving them.

And dude, muscular legs, back, shoulders and abs, with no arms or pecs is not a pleasing build, I am sorry.

2/3 of the body being developed is not a good thing for looks. If you are hung up on looks so much be a bodybuilder, or train to look like a model, or something. I don't have a thing against oly. lifters, and have a ton of respect for the hard work they do.

As for the whole olympic lifters being leaner than powerlifters debate, it is kind of a stupid depate when you truly compare apples to apples. Take the top 220 lb olympic lifter in the world, whoever that happens to be, and compare him with the top 220 lbs powerlifter, who happens to be at the moment, Chuck Vogelpohl. Both very lean.

You can't compare the bodyfat of an olympic level weightlifter with some guy you know who happens to be a powerlifter. Problem is, with this comparison there are a bunch of people around the country and world who are powerlifters, but the very few olympic lifters any of us are ever in contact with are olympic caliber.

Olympic caliber is like the top 1 or 2 percent in the world per a given weight class. Compare them to the top 1 or 2 percent of powerlifters in the world in a given weight class, and I will guarantee up to around the 275 class, you are going to find some very lean and muscular powerlifters.

Ed Coan at 220, or 242, best in the world, and very lean. Steve Goggins or Ano Turtainen at 275, both extremely lean. Ryan Kennely or Scott Mendelson at 308, both over 300 lbs sporting a 6 pack. How many guys you think there are running around like that in any sport? You would also be hard pressed to find someone more muscular at 220 lbs walking the planet right now than Kenny Patterson. These are big, strong, lean guys, and all happen to be in that rare category of men who are equivalent to an olympic caliber athlete.

B.