Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Jim Ouini]

Just wanted to say that I modified my bb-row technique so that I'm pulling from the floor each time. Previously I was keeping my upperbody parallel to the floor, but I didn't have nearly as much bend in my knees/hips (I also wasn't setting the bar down every time). After seeing those pictures I tried it the new way yesterday and I have to say I like it a lot more. I can see myself pulling a lot more weight this way... I'm psyched.

Yeah I've had the same experience. Based on my previous rowing exercises (smith, supported T-bar, standing T-bar) I didn't think I'd be able to row much with this method. But by setting it down and accelerating the bar up I suprised myself with how heavy I can go. In fact I feel like my elbow (ouchie) is more the limitation than my back.

So a big DL increase means you are far stronger than previously

Not sure if this is expected at this stage of the cycle, but last week's (wk 3) DL 5 x 5 felt really awesome, I even bumped up my last set because I felt so strong. I'm really looking forward to trying tomorrow's PR.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Not sure if this is expected at this stage of the cycle, but last week's (wk 3) DL 5 x 5 felt really awesome, I even bumped up my last set because I felt so strong. I'm really looking forward to trying tomorrow's PR.

It is and it isn't. For someone who isn't accustomed to this type of training or handling very large training loads this is fairly common. That's one of the bigger issues in having to be flexible as one progresses through the weight increases. A lot of guys are getting stronger early in the program so what they thought was their 5x5 or 1x5 max needs to be adjusted upward and the weekly weight progression/ramp along with it. Now eventually, as one becomes very accustomed to this type of program the weights, total volume, and where one starts move up until at elite levels the loads hardly resemble the nice easy start that most guys are using successfully here. A lifter at this level isn't going to find his max move much during the program so in this case, it would be unexpected.

 

[view]

i honestly just read this page for the 5th time and I finally think that I understand it all!!!! yeehaww!!!!!!!!

edit: one question though. lets say you finish the program and just interested in maintaining your physique for 3-4 months (those hot summer months), what time of training program do you follow it up with to maintain it?

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Maintaining would just require less calories. You can use the same routine, for sure. As long as you're getting adequate protein (and calories, on a whole), and stimulating the muscles heavily (to retain mass and strength, continue with, or as close to, the poundages you were using) 1-2x a week. Not a lot of volume is needed, either. Maintaining is fairly easy, especially in comparison to adding mass.

Honestly, I'd keep using the same routine (or something like WSB, maybe) to increase strength if you truly don't want to add any more mass. No reason to waste time in the gym "maintaining". Try to strive forward.

That's my belief, anyways.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

It is and it isn't. For someone who isn't accustomed to this type of training or handling very large training loads this is fairly common.

Well I definitely qualify as someone who isn't accustomed to this type of training, or dual factor in general, having performed the typical supercompensation BB program for several years now.

May as well add that I've plateaued at almost exactly your 6' 185# example

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

i honestly just read this page for the 5th time and I finally think that I understand it all!!!! yeehaww!!!!!!!!

edit: one question though. lets say you finish the program and just interested in maintaining your physique for 3-4 months (those hot summer months), what time of training program do you follow it up with to maintain it?

Tom has it right - calories if you aren't interested in gaining anymore. This program is fairly low for time commitment and works well enough that you can basically go through the motions a bit and still make progress (keep in mind that for many athletes, they are less than enthusiastic about the weightroom putting in shitty effort and this still works for them).

 

[Mithrandir]

Wed. was day two of week 1 for me..I thought my squats would be weaker and I would have to decrease beyond the 15-20 range, but I did not, I actually used closer to 15..255 4x5 and 260 1x5 monday, and today was 205 3x5 215 2x5 and it felt great!! I even was able to go a bit lower and maintain better form than I did on Monday. The DB incline was fairly easy, but my front delts were sore from Monday. First day doing deadlifts and they ROCK!!! ADVICE..do not lock knees, you WILL pull your ham...weigted pullups are always my fav...wednesday's kick ass..we will see how Friday goes, I can bet my legs will be shot to hell..oh well, worth the pain.

 

[Mithrandir]

Also, I cannot do shrugs because it makes my traps too sore for squats..and squats are much more important..I heard cleans make your traps sore also, shoudl I try them out... or forego until this program is over (does anythiing in this prog work traps?)?


Thanks

 

[blut wump]

Wed. was day two of week 1 for me..I thought my squats would be weaker and I would have to decrease beyond the 15-20 range, but I did not, I actually used closer to 15..255 4x5 and 260 1x5 monday, and today was 205 3x5 215 2x5 and it felt great!! I even was able to go a bit lower and maintain better form than I did on Monday. The DB incline was fairly easy, but my front delts were sore from Monday. First day doing deadlifts and they ROCK!!! ADVICE..do not lock knees, you WILL pull your ham...weigted pullups are always my fav...wednesday's kick ass..we will see how Friday goes, I can bet my legs will be shot to hell..oh well, worth the pain.

You've got me confused here, Mithrandir. Monday squats is 5x5 which is 25 reps plus warmups, not a 15-20 range. You should be making an effort to get the total prescribed volume in and not trying to set PRs. Wednesdays squats are about speed not straining for 5x5 with a weight which is comfortably less than Monday's and there's no excuse besides injury for Wednesday's squats to be anything other than perfect.

Where did DB incline come from? Did madcow recommend you swap out MP for DB incline? The deadlifts sound all wrong unless you'd swapped deadlift for SLDL.

Take a look on here for dozens, if not hundreds, of deadlifts
http://www.strongarmed.com/

Here, too, for textbook form
http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html

 

[Madcow2]

Barbell incline is preferable to a large degree but swapping DBs won't kill you - and now you want to stick with it for the duration so don't change. Forget the shrugs, rows and DL will take care of it and regular shrugs are largely a waste. If you are doing power shrugs (large description in the last 1-2 pages - it is a derrivation of the clean), it will increase your overall volume substantially so you are best to avoid at this point and let the program run its course. I don't know if I understand the sets/reps above correctly. Maybe you are doing the single factor/beginner program on the first page (post #15 I think). Either that or I don't really get it or there is something wrong in your interpretation. I'm traveling over the coming days so I'll likely not be around to post.