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hey guys...I cant gain shit on my bench...barbell that is.. for some reason I cant gain on barbell but I can on dumbell. wtf is with that??? How much should you be able to dumbell bench compared to barbell bench? Thanks
bench press
- Thread starter econanalyst
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When I first started lifting weights about 3 years ago I couldn't get my bench press over 200 I started doing dumbell presses for awhile and the next time I did bench I went from barely doing 200 to benching 225 4 times. This was when I first started working out. But, even today I rotate dumbell presses every 3 weeks. Maybe you should change up your reps for your bench do powerlifting sets like 10,8,6,5,5,3, even though it seems like a lot of sets it works and wonce you get some strengh you can do bodybuilibng sets
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HighIntensity
Guest
i only do dumbell and i have a great chest, better range of motion and you can kill those stabalizer muscels,
the bench is the most overrated thing in the gym...imop
the bench is the most overrated thing in the gym...imop
Screwball
New member
It has been my experience that those that are poor barbell benchers (for whatever reason) are the first to claim that barbell bench pressing is over-rated. However, the guys with the largest, most powerful chests (hell, the entire shoulder girdle for that matter) are the ones who bench and bench big. This applies to bodybuilders as well as powerlifters. Don't be fooled! Learn how to bench with good technique, balance your opposing muscle groups and push your numbers up. You won't be dissappointed by the results.
- Screwball
- Screwball
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HighIntensity
Guest
i know how to bench prop. its overated
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HighIntensity
Guest
for one im a pt so i should now how to bench...i could sit here and explain it but im sure you know...second does the bench do the job yes, my point is DB's can build just as an effect chest without the added stress on your rotator cuff
endpoint
New member
HighIntensity:
I guess it depends on what you bench press for.
I have been corrected at least 6 times by different personal trainers on how to bench. each of them saying i bench press wrong.
Although when i train at the institute of sport, they say i have an excellent bench.
when i train with powerlifters the only thing they pick me up on is leg drive.
as for the stess on the rotator cuff thing. just work your rotator cuff.
I guess it depends on what you bench press for.
I have been corrected at least 6 times by different personal trainers on how to bench. each of them saying i bench press wrong.
Although when i train at the institute of sport, they say i have an excellent bench.
when i train with powerlifters the only thing they pick me up on is leg drive.
as for the stess on the rotator cuff thing. just work your rotator cuff.
Screwball
New member
Come on now...
I think you're backtracking HighIntensity. The subject of the argument was "whether or not the Barbell Bench Press was over-rated" NOT "whether or not Dumbbell Presses were as effective as Barbell Bench Presses". It just so happens that I agree with you that Dumbbell Presses are very effective at increasing the shoulder girdle's strength and its' stabilizer muscles. The increased range of motion with dumbbells is also extremely beneficial. However, your statement that the Barbell Bench Press is overated simply is just not true. If the movement is performed correctly, it is the best upper body pressing movement to increase muscular size and strength, period.
On a separate note, I have known many, many personal trainers who didn't know a thing about training. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't a good personal trainer or that you don't know your shit. But, I don't think it wise for you to think that just because you are a personal trainer that you are a credible source of knowledge. All forum members need to be able to defend the knowledge they dispense.
- Screwball
I think you're backtracking HighIntensity. The subject of the argument was "whether or not the Barbell Bench Press was over-rated" NOT "whether or not Dumbbell Presses were as effective as Barbell Bench Presses". It just so happens that I agree with you that Dumbbell Presses are very effective at increasing the shoulder girdle's strength and its' stabilizer muscles. The increased range of motion with dumbbells is also extremely beneficial. However, your statement that the Barbell Bench Press is overated simply is just not true. If the movement is performed correctly, it is the best upper body pressing movement to increase muscular size and strength, period.
On a separate note, I have known many, many personal trainers who didn't know a thing about training. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't a good personal trainer or that you don't know your shit. But, I don't think it wise for you to think that just because you are a personal trainer that you are a credible source of knowledge. All forum members need to be able to defend the knowledge they dispense.
- Screwball
bignate73
New member
Re: Come on now...
this statement is absolute opinion.
any exercise that works through half the range of motion of the intended target muscle group cannot be considered THE best. dbell presses on the other hand take the upper arm through its full range of motion if the intention of making a movement specific exercise like the bench press a targeted exercise for pectorals.
the squat happens to work as "the" lower body exercise because it doesnt limit the legs range of motion, however the bench press, though tried and true and time tested, just doesnt yield the same ROM, where unilateral resistances (like dbells) source do.
Screwball said:
this statement is absolute opinion.
any exercise that works through half the range of motion of the intended target muscle group cannot be considered THE best. dbell presses on the other hand take the upper arm through its full range of motion if the intention of making a movement specific exercise like the bench press a targeted exercise for pectorals.
the squat happens to work as "the" lower body exercise because it doesnt limit the legs range of motion, however the bench press, though tried and true and time tested, just doesnt yield the same ROM, where unilateral resistances (like dbells) source do.
Screwball
New member
Absolutely Right!
You are absolutely right. It is my opinion and I defended it. In doing so, I exposed the rediculous statement that HighIntensity brought to the table - "Barbell Bench Pressing is over-rated". There is a reason that the Barbell Bench Press is one of the three core lifts attempted in powerlifting. That reason being that it is the single best lift to test upper body pressing strength. I am confident in saying that the barbell bench press and its variations are the staple of the majority of weight trainers for increasing upper body strength and size.
Your statement is incorrect when you say that a barbell bench press that touches the chest is half the range of motion as a dumbbell press. A full range dumbbell press probably adds 2"-4" to the pressing stroke. This hardly equates to half of a full pressing stroke.
It is your opinion that the dumbbell press is a superior movement to the barbell bench press and I strongly disagree. In my opinion, overload is the key to gaining strength and size not an increase in range-of motion.
It may have been the personal trainer portion of the previous post that initiated your response. If so, then please re-read the post because I stated that only a portion of my dealings with personal trainers involved faulty information or poor instruction. However, if this statement did offend you, then perhaps, it does apply.
- Screwball
You are absolutely right. It is my opinion and I defended it. In doing so, I exposed the rediculous statement that HighIntensity brought to the table - "Barbell Bench Pressing is over-rated". There is a reason that the Barbell Bench Press is one of the three core lifts attempted in powerlifting. That reason being that it is the single best lift to test upper body pressing strength. I am confident in saying that the barbell bench press and its variations are the staple of the majority of weight trainers for increasing upper body strength and size.
Your statement is incorrect when you say that a barbell bench press that touches the chest is half the range of motion as a dumbbell press. A full range dumbbell press probably adds 2"-4" to the pressing stroke. This hardly equates to half of a full pressing stroke.
It is your opinion that the dumbbell press is a superior movement to the barbell bench press and I strongly disagree. In my opinion, overload is the key to gaining strength and size not an increase in range-of motion.
It may have been the personal trainer portion of the previous post that initiated your response. If so, then please re-read the post because I stated that only a portion of my dealings with personal trainers involved faulty information or poor instruction. However, if this statement did offend you, then perhaps, it does apply.
- Screwball
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HighIntensity
Guest
By the way Deadlifts are the best upper body exercise
and we all have the right to an opinion, mine is the bench is overated...we could argue this all day, but i won't
and we all have the right to an opinion, mine is the bench is overated...we could argue this all day, but i won't
Screwball
New member
Wrong Again...
The barbell bench press is the best test of overall upper body strength. The barbell back squat is the best overall test of lower body strength. The deadlift is the best test of overall body strength (upper & lower). You are losing credibility. Perhaps, you should obstain from posting about things you obviously know very little about. Specifically, this is directed to HighIntensity and BigNate.
- Screwball
The barbell bench press is the best test of overall upper body strength. The barbell back squat is the best overall test of lower body strength. The deadlift is the best test of overall body strength (upper & lower). You are losing credibility. Perhaps, you should obstain from posting about things you obviously know very little about. Specifically, this is directed to HighIntensity and BigNate.
- Screwball
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HighIntensity
Guest
dude who the fuck are you....i did not say BEST TEST OF STRENGTH I said DEADS are the best for overall upperbody mass
"By the way Deadlifts are the best upper body exercise"
Get your glasses and read what I write better, don't miss quote me
thank you
Screwball
New member
How in hell can you think that deadlifts are the best exercise for the upper body? The prime movers in the deadlift are the rear chain (i.e. hams, hips, glutes and lower back). The deadlift in no way, shape or form is the best movement for upper body strength. However, it is a very effective movement for building the back muscles from top to bottom.
HighIntensity, wouldn't you equate the exercise that best tests the strength of the upper body as the exericise that most effectively builds the upper body? And, please show me where I quoted you? I did not quote you on this issue and I don't wear glasses.
BigNate, as long as you bring up bodybuilding, why don't we take a look at previous Mr. Olympias? Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Lee Haney and "Big" Arnold all had massively strong and developed chests. It just so happens that the barbell bench press was a staple for each of these champions. I can't speak for these guys but I'm sure each would not think the barbell bench press an over-rated movement.
That's all I'll say on the matter, as I'm sure it's clear to anyone who reads this thread that your arguements are purely opinion and without substance. Hopefully, someone will find something positive in this thread.
- Screwball
HighIntensity, wouldn't you equate the exercise that best tests the strength of the upper body as the exericise that most effectively builds the upper body? And, please show me where I quoted you? I did not quote you on this issue and I don't wear glasses.
BigNate, as long as you bring up bodybuilding, why don't we take a look at previous Mr. Olympias? Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Lee Haney and "Big" Arnold all had massively strong and developed chests. It just so happens that the barbell bench press was a staple for each of these champions. I can't speak for these guys but I'm sure each would not think the barbell bench press an over-rated movement.
That's all I'll say on the matter, as I'm sure it's clear to anyone who reads this thread that your arguements are purely opinion and without substance. Hopefully, someone will find something positive in this thread.
- Screwball
Personal comments about bench press and upper body:
It's a perfectly good exercise for chest, shoulder(front), and tricep development. However (here comes the fun part), many ignorant people believe that it is the only exercise needed for the upper body
(not intended toward screwball) hence the reason why people think it's overated (some think it's all you need for the WHOLE body with maybe curls and situps or crunches ). There happens to be more muscle in the your back than in your chest which I why I think either pullups/pulldowns or some sort of row wins in the best upper body exercise category IF THAT WERE THE ONLY UPPER BODY EXERCISE YOU WERE DOING. To an extent, the chest is involved in both of those movements which is also a plus. Ideally, one should be doing a push and a pull for upper body. The bench press has gotten a bad rep around some places to due shoulder problems some have down the road. This is most likely because of muscle imbalances (too much pressing and most importantly not enough pulling).
It's a perfectly good exercise for chest, shoulder(front), and tricep development. However (here comes the fun part), many ignorant people believe that it is the only exercise needed for the upper body
(not intended toward screwball) hence the reason why people think it's overated (some think it's all you need for the WHOLE body with maybe curls and situps or crunches ). There happens to be more muscle in the your back than in your chest which I why I think either pullups/pulldowns or some sort of row wins in the best upper body exercise category IF THAT WERE THE ONLY UPPER BODY EXERCISE YOU WERE DOING. To an extent, the chest is involved in both of those movements which is also a plus. Ideally, one should be doing a push and a pull for upper body. The bench press has gotten a bad rep around some places to due shoulder problems some have down the road. This is most likely because of muscle imbalances (too much pressing and most importantly not enough pulling).
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bignate73
New member
so in order to make yourself look more credible, you choose to consider what someone says as opinion as it suits you. you did so without stating the BOUNDRIES of this argument. for upper body pushing, yes, it is a viable exercise. it has been used for years as a means of determining strength. as for its being overrated, i feel that an exercise that doesnt take its "target" muscle group (pectorals) through a full range of motion is not superior to one that does(dbells). if this is opinion...well, i guess im not alone professionally, and i stand in better company than the likes of past mr. olympias that based their programs on "gym science". since i am basing my sole argument on ROM(clearly stated now) then this is the the position i take. luckily, weight training tends to be about taking a muscle, under load, through eccentric, isometric, and concentric motion, through a joint angles range of motion. limitations on this rule should only be limited by structure and stability and not equipment.
another side note on opinion: ive seen many variations on exercise and at times they tend to suit an individuals goal (sports specific, physical limitations etc). but in this case, i feel, that we are referring to an average weight trainer/bodybuilder (given the forum) looking to maximize time spent under the weight. if this is my opinion, then so be it, ill go with ROM and stay with that camp, like i said, im in better company.
so that should cover my position on this matter, and hopefully dispel any possibility as to this being my opinion, and not something i pulled from the air. i defined the basis of my argument, if i need references....
whatever.
another side note on opinion: ive seen many variations on exercise and at times they tend to suit an individuals goal (sports specific, physical limitations etc). but in this case, i feel, that we are referring to an average weight trainer/bodybuilder (given the forum) looking to maximize time spent under the weight. if this is my opinion, then so be it, ill go with ROM and stay with that camp, like i said, im in better company.
so that should cover my position on this matter, and hopefully dispel any possibility as to this being my opinion, and not something i pulled from the air. i defined the basis of my argument, if i need references....
whatever.
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HighIntensity
Guest
Do a search on DEADLIFTS please and see why so many agree with me
CASE CLOSED
solidspine
New member
Break it up. and vary your angles, barbells for one week dumbbells next, incline, flat and decline
and flyes
and flyes
aurelius
New member
to HIGHINTENSITY
I could do a search under "new world order" and hear about how a lot of people think political leaders around the world are conspiring to form a one world goverment. Doesn´t make it so...
Also, with regards to "athletic" strength (push power on the playing field) the bench press is a poor measure of power as you are pushing from a back-supported position. You never get such a luxury on the field.
I could do a search under "new world order" and hear about how a lot of people think political leaders around the world are conspiring to form a one world goverment. Doesn´t make it so...
Also, with regards to "athletic" strength (push power on the playing field) the bench press is a poor measure of power as you are pushing from a back-supported position. You never get such a luxury on the field.
Lord_Suston
New member
I just got a headache reading this post....
My Opinion (OPINION) is that best exercise for soley, soley the pectoral is the dumbells, but for overall upper body developement of the shoulder girdle, chest, and tris has to be Barbell. Bare with me I know some one is probably going to miseterpret what i just typed. Barbell press does nopt go through the whole range of motion, other groups of muscle pick up the slack, hence being the best movement for pressing strength, not pec developement.
My Opinion (OPINION) is that best exercise for soley, soley the pectoral is the dumbells, but for overall upper body developement of the shoulder girdle, chest, and tris has to be Barbell. Bare with me I know some one is probably going to miseterpret what i just typed. Barbell press does nopt go through the whole range of motion, other groups of muscle pick up the slack, hence being the best movement for pressing strength, not pec developement.
econanalyst
New member
Im no expert, but I find that dumbell gives me a way better pump than barbell. Its like i can feel all my muscles working in my pecs.
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