Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Back Routines
- Thread starter swordfish151
- Start date
Illuminati
New member
swordfish151 said:
do your deadlifts first. and if you are going to do the bent over rows, do them with a bar, and not on the smith machine
swordfish151
New member
Illuminati said:
why on the bar not the smith bro?
swordfish151
New member
JKurz1 said:ok...your goal for the next lifetime is to NEVER use the Smith machine again......
Christ......it's the first piece of equipment I'd burn if I wouldn't get thrown in jail............
actually moved away from the smith (for squats) a month ago and just did the squat rack...lets just say the squat rack is a REAL MANS machine...well not a machine but you know what i mean...legs were sore for days!!!!
Jim Ouini
New member
I used to do this for back:
Deadlift 4 x 6-8
Weighted pullups - What I used to do is target 30 reps. However many sets it took to get me there. Once I got it in 3 sets I'd add weight.
Some kind of row - T-bar supported, seated cable, whatever. 3 x 8-10
Pretty typical stuff.
I also tried a Poliquin 'Flying Squirrel' workout. I think I'd spend an hr at the pull up station doing various types - sternum pullups, varying widths and grips. Can't remember all the details and progressions but I do remember it was grueling.
Deadlift 4 x 6-8
Weighted pullups - What I used to do is target 30 reps. However many sets it took to get me there. Once I got it in 3 sets I'd add weight.
Some kind of row - T-bar supported, seated cable, whatever. 3 x 8-10
Pretty typical stuff.
I also tried a Poliquin 'Flying Squirrel' workout. I think I'd spend an hr at the pull up station doing various types - sternum pullups, varying widths and grips. Can't remember all the details and progressions but I do remember it was grueling.
Illuminati
New member
swordfish151 said:
i guess its just my personal preference. i am not a very big fan of the smith machine, and i try to advocate against the use of it. the smith machine tends to put the movement into an unnatural path. i know we are talking about doing rows here, but i see a lot of people squatting and benching on the smith machine, and it kills me. especially when i see people squatting, the angle that the legs are in when at the bottom of the squat makes me cringe, because its just inviting injury.
when rowing on the smith machine, a person could pull back against the bar and get a little more leverage due to the fact that the poles guide the bar up in a fluid motion. if you were to get into the habit of doing this, and tried it with a bar, you would end up losing your balance.
ultimately the choice is up to you. try doing them with a bar next time, and see if you like it. you will probably notice a world of difference.
Illuminati
New member
camshaft said:
everybody will have their opinion about this, but i would suggest that you dont do them twice a week. im making the assumption that because you deadlift, that you also do squats. is this correct? keep in mind that the deadlift and the squat both put a tremendous strain on the lower back. so you can see where this would lead to overtraining in your lower back. and trust me, having your lower back give out on you is no fun. i have been battling with it for about a month now (i fucked mine up squatting 500, but that's a different story.)
i know most of you guys here are more into BBing, but if you look at routines of PLers, most will only go for a heavy/max pull once a month at the most when it comes to deads. if you look at the basic set up of the Westside Barbell routine, there is a max effort (ME) day for squat/deadlift on monday, and dynamic effort (DE) day for squat/deadlift on friday. obviously, the ME squat/dead day you are going to be going for a max attempt on some type of squat, deadlift (be it a sumo/conv. dead, or some type of rack pull) or GM (standing or seated.) this is followed up with accessory work for the hams, glutes, lower back, and abs. the DE squat/dead day, the workout is always started with speed work on a box squat. in contrast to the ME day where you are trying to lift the most amount of weight possible, on the DE day, you are taking a weight that is approx. 50% of your max, and trying to move it as fast as possible with very short rest periods between sets (30secs.) next, some will work speed deads in the same fashion, again, concentrating on pulling the weight as fast as possible. the key to the DE day is not to let the ego get the best of you, and keep the weight light. occassionally, some will work up to a max single.
I'll second that. The deadlift is the maximum pull that the body can muster. As a lifter progresses one finds that it becomes very very taxing on the body's recuperative ability (CNS is included in this) - there is a big reason why Westside's Elite lifters avoid training the lift frequently. If you are going to pull heavy once a week and do some light pulls on another day you might get away with it.
There is a good program that has you deadlift 3x per week (Korte's 3x3) but also figure that it includes absolutely no assistance work and all you do is bench, squat, and dead every day 3x per week for around 8 weeks. If your max is somewhat respectable this program is a nightmare because you always have to pull last before you leave the gym. You can find Korte's write ups along with a lot of Louie's (WSB) in the Deepsquatter archives here: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/index.htm
Anyway, the point being is that you had better either be a beginner or you'll have to manage this very carefully if you intend to deadlift 2x per week. This is actually a really good reason to learn the olympic lifts (or even just clean and snatch pull variants) because it gives you a ton of possible pulling variants that are for the most part concentric only, far less taxing, and have a very solid carry over to the dead. Louie, WSB, tends to steer clear of them but this has never made sense to me as the same article that talked about the carry-over from the goodmorning listed the power clean, high pull, and power shrug along with it - it was written by Bill Starr BTW after he set a DL record without training it explicitly - he was an OL. With OLs you can pull mutliple times per week, acceleration is implicit, and you can redistribute your recovery away toward other lifts. Steering clear of the whole "teaching" argument by using clean/snatch pull style varriants this is pretty logical to me and it's probably the only thing that irks me about Westside.
Here's the original article: http://www.americanpowerliftevolution.net/New Folder 1969/dlapproach1.html
Here's someone who recently did an OL assist program which lead him to a PR in the dead without training it. Do notice he had issues with locking out the heavier weight but also notice the one exercise he neglected was the dynamic shrugging (power shrug) which specifically overloads the top portion to supplment this:
http://www.ruggedmag.com/index.php?type=Article&i=15&a=9
Interesting stuff anyway. Good tools to have in the arsenal as the deadlift didn't earn the title as the "ultimate test of full body strength" by being easy to recovery from so train smart and use each tool to the best of your abilities.
There is a good program that has you deadlift 3x per week (Korte's 3x3) but also figure that it includes absolutely no assistance work and all you do is bench, squat, and dead every day 3x per week for around 8 weeks. If your max is somewhat respectable this program is a nightmare because you always have to pull last before you leave the gym. You can find Korte's write ups along with a lot of Louie's (WSB) in the Deepsquatter archives here: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/index.htm
Anyway, the point being is that you had better either be a beginner or you'll have to manage this very carefully if you intend to deadlift 2x per week. This is actually a really good reason to learn the olympic lifts (or even just clean and snatch pull variants) because it gives you a ton of possible pulling variants that are for the most part concentric only, far less taxing, and have a very solid carry over to the dead. Louie, WSB, tends to steer clear of them but this has never made sense to me as the same article that talked about the carry-over from the goodmorning listed the power clean, high pull, and power shrug along with it - it was written by Bill Starr BTW after he set a DL record without training it explicitly - he was an OL. With OLs you can pull mutliple times per week, acceleration is implicit, and you can redistribute your recovery away toward other lifts. Steering clear of the whole "teaching" argument by using clean/snatch pull style varriants this is pretty logical to me and it's probably the only thing that irks me about Westside.
Here's the original article: http://www.americanpowerliftevolution.net/New Folder 1969/dlapproach1.html
Here's someone who recently did an OL assist program which lead him to a PR in the dead without training it. Do notice he had issues with locking out the heavier weight but also notice the one exercise he neglected was the dynamic shrugging (power shrug) which specifically overloads the top portion to supplment this:
http://www.ruggedmag.com/index.php?type=Article&i=15&a=9
Interesting stuff anyway. Good tools to have in the arsenal as the deadlift didn't earn the title as the "ultimate test of full body strength" by being easy to recovery from so train smart and use each tool to the best of your abilities.
Last edited:
