Anyone on statins?

[Harleymarleybone]

You're going to quote an american heart association study? That's like the stronghold of this whole thing.........these are not bipartisan researchers.

Nobody is going to convince me that drug peddling is a superior way to get healthier than changing your diet and excercise habits. To even suggest taking these drugs as preventative care is criminal.......morally and ethically debunkt. It's amazing how different the medical field in europe treats this drug issue. They see these type of drugs as a last line of defense.........useful in end stage cases where simply changing lifestyle habits is too little too late. They would never even consider handing this shit out to children.

And if you think it's cool to even be thinking about prevantive prescriptions of statins for children, you've got some screws loose and should hit yourself over the head with a shovel as soon as possible.

Wouldn't you rather see a kid stop stuffing his face with mcnuggets than continue his shit eating habits but take a whole drug cocktail everyday? That's what it's going to get too, for children and adults. Nobody's suggesting we stop over consuming, it's "continue as you were and take our drugs".........that's just disgusting.

At least I gave a source (the AHA). You have not provided any. I trust the AHA over the sources you are relying on, since they try to demonize statins to peddle their own "alternative" (hehe) products.

Nobody said diet and exercise were not superior. Who is saying that?

Whether some children should take statins is not the question I posed in the thread. I was inquiring about myself. I am not a pediatrician. Are you?

And who cares about what Europe does? Europeans are panzie asses, and don't bathe enough.

 

[heavydutyhit]

You're going to quote an american heart association study? That's like the stronghold of this whole thing.........these are not bipartisan researchers.

Nobody is going to convince me that drug peddling is a superior way to get healthier than changing your diet and excercise habits. To even suggest taking these drugs as preventative care is criminal.......morally and ethically debunkt. It's amazing how different the medical field in europe treats this drug issue. They see these type of drugs as a last line of defense.........useful in end stage cases where simply changing lifestyle habits is too little too late. They would never even consider handing this shit out to children.

And if you think it's cool to even be thinking about prevantive prescriptions of statins for children, you've got some screws loose and should hit yourself over the head with a shovel as soon as possible.

Wouldn't you rather see a kid stop stuffing his face with mcnuggets than continue his shit eating habits but take a whole drug cocktail everyday? That's what it's going to get too, for children and adults. Nobody's suggesting we stop over consuming, it's "continue as you were and take our drugs".........that's just disgusting.

Relax Red...., I come in peace.

As far as Red's "conspiracy theory"....., IMO it is not a theory. Anyone who has spent some significant time in a hospital setting on the employee side of things can usually attest to the fact that 9/10 times...., the Doctors treatment plan is influenced by outside organizations.

An example is an emergency room physician recommending a 7-10 day admission to the hospital for pain control/observation, and then the next day getting informed that the patient's medical insurance company will only pay for 4 day stay in the hospital. Why? Because there was some pencil pushing geek 5-6 states away with no college education (let alone a medical degree), with a chart at his desk that tells him exactly "how much stuff" the insurance company will cover based on the medical diagnosis, with no attention paid to individual variation/complications. It is absolute bullshit.

Back to Red's point, are you really buying the fact that 95% of physicians out there are infinitely bewildered with regards to proper diet/exercise recommendations to control heart disease? If not, then why would they FIRST be inclined to prescribe pharmaceutical control BEFORE attempting to modify one's unhealthy lifestyle, as Red has mentioned? Look no further than the physicians desk. I will bet you it is riddled with all kinds of free shit bearing the name of the drug/pharmaceutical company he is enslaved to. Pens, notepads, clipboards, little calculators, cute little paperweights, and whatever other bullshit he gets from them. These Dr.s have some type of invested interest in making sure that these drugs are successfully prescribed to a certain quota of patients.

The medical community is like the political arena today. The people in charge are being run from behind the scenes by the insurance and pharmaceutical companies because medicine is BIG BUSINESS! It is no different than the oil companies controlling who gets put into the white house. It is all about the money, who gives a shit about the patient.

 

[redsamurai]

holy shit you do get it.......well fuck me running! That's the point I've been trying to make now for months and I thought you were fighting me on it. Doctors aren't allowed to be doctors anymore, they're simply automatons of the pharmaceutical industry. Not all obviousl. But there's somethign I'd like your comment on since you're now preparing to become a doctor if you're not already one.

I'm assuming you're up to your eyeballs in debt from your education. So you're probably not going to do anything remotely close to possibly fucking with your liscensure cause then you've got all that debt and no ability to practice. Do you think this is why so few doctors are williing to buck the trend? I'm assuming the AMA is the driving force behind this push to bring all doctors under "control". Is it them that can force you out of the field if you don't play good boy? Pardon me if I'm way off on this cause I don't know the ins and outs of the regulatory practices of the medical field.

Relax Red...., I come in peace.

As far as Red's "conspiracy theory"....., IMO it is not a theory. Anyone who has spent some significant time in a hospital setting on the employee side of things can usually attest to the fact that 9/10 times...., the Doctors treatment plan is influenced by outside organizations.

An example is an emergency room physician recommending a 7-10 day admission to the hospital for pain control/observation, and then the next day getting informed that the patient's medical insurance company will only pay for 4 day stay in the hospital. Why? Because there was some pencil pushing geek 5-6 states away with no college education (let alone a medical degree), with a chart at his desk that tells him exactly "how much stuff" the insurance company will cover based on the medical diagnosis, with no attention paid to individual variation/complications. It is absolute bullshit.

Back to Red's point, are you really buying the fact that 95% of physicians out there are infinitely bewildered with regards to proper diet/exercise recommendations to control heart disease? If not, then why would they FIRST be inclined to prescribe pharmaceutical control BEFORE attempting to modify one's unhealthy lifestyle, as Red has mentioned? Look no further than the physicians desk. I will bet you it is riddled with all kinds of free shit bearing the name of the drug/pharmaceutical company he is enslaved to. Pens, notepads, clipboards, little calculators, cute little paperweights, and whatever other bullshit he gets from them. These Dr.s have some type of invested interest in making sure that these drugs are successfully prescribed to a certain quota of patients.

The medical community is like the political arena today. The people in charge are being run from behind the scenes by the insurance and pharmaceutical companies because medicine is BIG BUSINESS! It is no different than the oil companies controlling who gets put into the white house. It is all about the money, who gives a shit about the patient.

 

[heavydutyhit]

No not a Dr., a CNMT and am currently in PA school. My father, however, is a physician. He bitches about this shit all of the time. I was going to go on to Medical School because I have the grades, and qualify for Financial Assistance ect., but when I told my dad what I wanted to do he forbid it. Why would a father forbid his son from going to medical school?

Answer: He sat me down and explained to me that to be a successful physician in this day and age you have to sell your soul. He feels as if he is being forced to violate the Hippocratic Oath he took when he graduated Med school, because he is in a position where his medical decisions are influenced, and sometimes straight out controlled, by people with NO medical education whatsoever.



I am going to paint a hypothetical scenario here. Lets say, for amusement, that there is a hospital that runs just like this. There is a medical "board" that runs the hospital and basically bosses the physicans around. On this board, there is only ONE person with any medical education that regularly attends board meetings...., a fucking nurse. Nothing against nurses, my wife is a nurse, but in no capacity should a nurse be controlling any of the staffing and protocol issues of an emergency room dept. The main "overseeing physician" on the board never shows up to meetings, because he is too busy hanging out in Las Vegas and playing golf in Ft. Lauderdale. The other people on the board are basically businessmen with absolutely NO MEDICAL EDUCATION, and close ties to pharmaceutical reps. These are the people that run the inner workings of the entire ER dept. They are in charge of who works, who doesn't, who gets hired, and who gets fired. So in other words..., if you want to work there..., you better play ball and keep your fucking mouth shut.

Another problem is the "independent" companies buying out all of the Dr.'s contracts. Let me paint another hypothetical scenario. A certain physician refuses to work for this independent company, and wishes to remain on the hospital's payroll..., he then gets a letter in the mail 2 weeks later from his malpractice insurance carrier informing him that his yearly cost for malpractice insurance has been..., TRIPLED! When he refuses to pay it, the INSURANCE company files a petition to have his medical license revoked/suspended on basis of refusal to carry medical malpractice insurance. All of this on a physician with 30 years seniority and not one case of malpractice EVER! So that "independent" company then of course calls and offers to make it all go away. So he has no choice. Period.

It is a bunch of bullshit politics, and the revenues are more important than the success rate of treatment for patients. It makes it very hard for moral and ethically true physicians to make it in today's health care scene.

So I decided to go to PA school and let all the bullshit responsibility fall onto whatever physician I work for. I don't have the stomach for selling out the way one would need to to "make it" today as a physician. People can say whatever they wish, but as I said earlier, if you don't witness the inner workings..., then you just believe what you see on TV.

 

[redsamurai]

And that more people don't see a problem with this is staggering. This is the problem with healthcare, not the insurance companies.....it's "this". For all the great things modern medicine is doing and is about to do, this just simply cannot be. Thank you for writing this ht, very enlightening. And I personally commend you for realizing what you were about to drop into.

No not a Dr., a CNMT and am currently in PA school. My father, however, is a physician. He bitches about this shit all of the time. I was going to go on to Medical School because I have the grades, and qualify for Financial Assistance ect., but when I told my dad what I wanted to do he forbid it. Why would a father forbid his son from going to medical school?

Answer: He sat me down and explained to me that to be a successful physician in this day and age you have to sell your soul. He feels as if he is being forced to violate the Hippocratic Oath he took when he graduated Med school, because he is in a position where his medical decisions are influenced, and sometimes straight out controlled, by people with NO medical education whatsoever.



I am going to paint a hypothetical scenario here. Lets say, for amusement, that there is a hospital that runs just like this. There is a medical "board" that runs the hospital and basically bosses the physicans around. On this board, there is only ONE person with any medical education that regularly attends board meetings...., a fucking nurse. Nothing against nurses, my wife is a nurse, but in no capacity should a nurse be controlling any of the staffing and protocol issues of an emergency room dept. The main "overseeing physician" on the board never shows up to meetings, because he is too busy hanging out in Las Vegas and playing golf in Ft. Lauderdale. The other people on the board are basically businessmen with absolutely NO MEDICAL EDUCATION, and close ties to pharmaceutical reps. These are the people that run the inner workings of the entire ER dept. They are in charge of who works, who doesn't, who gets hired, and who gets fired. So in other words..., if you want to work there..., you better play ball and keep your fucking mouth shut.

Another problem is the "independent" companies buying out all of the Dr.'s contracts. Let me paint another hypothetical scenario. A certain physician refuses to work for this independent company, and wishes to remain on the hospital's payroll..., he then gets a letter in the mail 2 weeks later from his malpractice insurance carrier informing him that his yearly cost for malpractice insurance has been..., TRIPLED! When he refuses to pay it, the INSURANCE company files a petition to have his medical license revoked/suspended on basis of refusal to carry medical malpractice insurance. All of this on a physician with 30 years seniority and not one case of malpractice EVER! So that "independent" company then of course calls and offers to make it all go away. So he has no choice. Period.

It is a bunch of bullshit politics, and the revenues are more important than the success rate of treatment for patients. It makes it very hard for moral and ethically true physicians to make it in today's health care scene.

So I decided to go to PA school and let all the bullshit responsibility fall onto whatever physician I work for. I don't have the stomach for selling out the way one would need to to "make it" today as a physician. People can say whatever they wish, but as I said earlier, if you don't witness the inner workings..., then you just believe what you see on TV.

 

[heavydutyhit]

And that more people don't see a problem with this is staggering. This is the problem with healthcare, not the insurance companies.....it's "this". For all the great things modern medicine is doing and is about to do, this just simply cannot be. Thank you for writing this ht, very enlightening. And I personally commend you for realizing what you were about to drop into.

Thanks brother. I appreciate it. Nice to know someone else isn't fooled by all of the propaganda into thinking that here in the USA we have "the best healthcare in the world." We have the POTENTIAL for the best healthcare in the world, but if you are not one of the infinitely rich..., forget about it. Again it comes down to who has the money, and who is willing to pay for the care.

A case in point in Magic Johnson. What was I like 9 when he got HIV? And his ass isn't only still alive, he is making fucking commercials on TV still! Lets see the survival rates of other people diagnosed with HIV the same year Magic was, with the only difference being their net yearly income.

The illusion of equality.

 

[Tatyana]

There is a fair amount of research that is linking higher levels of cholesterol, HDL in particular, to longetivity.

The funny thing about this research, a lot of it isn't that new.

It also appears that some statins raise HDL as well.

I really don't think that the link with cholesterol and heart disease is going to be all that clear cut.



SpringerLink - Journal Article

Elevated high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and normal triglycerides as markers of longevity

M. Nikkilä1, T. Pitkäjärvi1, T. Koivula1 and J. Heikkinen1

(1) Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Tampere, Finland

Received: 7 June 1991 Accepted: 8 July 1991

Summary Serum cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglycerides of 85 year old home-living persons were compared to those of controls and of patients who had severe coronary artery disease (CAD) at an early age. Eightyfive-year-olds had higher serum HDL cholesterol than controls and patients with CAD. Patients with severe CAD had higher serum total cholesterol and serum triglycerides and lower HDL-cholesterol than other groups. When 85-year-old persons were divided into quintiles according to serum HDL cholesterol, women with highest HDL cholesterol had lowest mortality, men with lowest HDL cholesterol had highest mortality. We conclude that elevated HDL cholesterol is correlating with longevity and low HDL cholesterol with CAD at an early age.
Key words Cholesterol - HDL cholesterol - Triglycerides - Longevity

Abbreviations HDL high density lipoprotein - CAD coronary artery disease

 

[redsamurai]

I know in men that cholesterol is synthesized into Test, not sure what the female body does with it. But elevated levels of cholesterol are only dangerous in people who have high levels of inflammation. The cholesterol can raise your BP and cause a rupture which of course leads to a heart attack, but blameing heart disease solely on cholesterol is retarded, but lucrative as we can see. The pharmaceutical industry, with full compliance of the medical field, has taken something like heart disease which is the result of a number of things going wrong with the human "system"......and broken it down into one single factor. And they do that so they can put the entire world on statins. Anything in overabundance is bad for you, so I"m not saying that cholesterol levels can be whatever they please. But "normal" cholesterol levels are a natural byproduct of a balanced diet, simple as that.

There is a fair amount of research that is linking higher levels of cholesterol, HDL in particular, to longetivity.

The funny thing about this research, a lot of it isn't that new.

It also appears that some statins raise HDL as well.

I really don't think that the link with cholesterol and heart disease is going to be all that clear cut.



SpringerLink - Journal Article

Elevated high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and normal triglycerides as markers of longevity

M. Nikkilä1, T. Pitkäjärvi1, T. Koivula1 and J. Heikkinen1

(1) Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Tampere, Finland

Received: 7 June 1991 Accepted: 8 July 1991

Summary Serum cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglycerides of 85 year old home-living persons were compared to those of controls and of patients who had severe coronary artery disease (CAD) at an early age. Eightyfive-year-olds had higher serum HDL cholesterol than controls and patients with CAD. Patients with severe CAD had higher serum total cholesterol and serum triglycerides and lower HDL-cholesterol than other groups. When 85-year-old persons were divided into quintiles according to serum HDL cholesterol, women with highest HDL cholesterol had lowest mortality, men with lowest HDL cholesterol had highest mortality. We conclude that elevated HDL cholesterol is correlating with longevity and low HDL cholesterol with CAD at an early age.
Key words Cholesterol - HDL cholesterol - Triglycerides - Longevity

Abbreviations HDL high density lipoprotein - CAD coronary artery disease

 

[Tatyana]

I know in men that cholesterol is synthesized into Test, not sure what the female body does with it. But elevated levels of cholesterol are only dangerous in people who have high levels of inflammation. The cholesterol can raise your BP and cause a rupture which of course leads to a heart attack, but blameing heart disease solely on cholesterol is retarded, but lucrative as we can see. The pharmaceutical industry, with full compliance of the medical field, has taken something like heart disease which is the result of a number of things going wrong with the human "system"......and broken it down into one single factor. And they do that so they can put the entire world on statins. Anything in overabundance is bad for you, so I"m not saying that cholesterol levels can be whatever they please. But "normal" cholesterol levels are a natural byproduct of a balanced diet, simple as that.

All the sex steroid hormones are synthesised from cholesterol.

They share an initial common pathway from pregnolone.

Testosterone is converted to oestrogen and androstendione is converted to estrone.

Oestrogen and estrone are interchangeable, as are testosterone and oestrogen.

The chemical structure of all of these hormones is very visually similar.

 

[RottenWillow]

Drug reps have actually been banned from our hospital for the reasons touched upon above.

Also, anyone diagnosed with high triglycerides should first consider plain old Vitamin B-3 (niacin) in the form of nicotinic acid. This is the sort that will flush you until your body acclimiates, which actually only takes a few days. You can eventually triate to 3-4k mgs daily with very little, if any flushing. No diet mods at all my triglycerides dropped about 40 points on it. Also, beats the heck out of caffeine for providing mental clarity from the increased blood flow to the brain.