Anybody here 200lbs or under?

[Mr.X]

Oh god - you're wearing me out. Maybe you have time to post here all day long, but this will be my last one for the night..

Yes, I'm wearing down your false logic, very true.

Have you ever dreamed of doing something and it was so intense that you just had to do it? ..

Just because you "dream" something, it doesn't mean you need to do it. Steroid use is not something you just dream about and do.

You're acting like my statement regarding HAVE TO DO THEM NO MATTER WHAT is a bad thing.
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Ok, so if it's not a "bad thing", can you tell would it be ok, for, let's say a 17 year old highschool football player to do steroids because the 'alternatives' aren't working 'in his view'? I mean if you are planning to make the "DO THEM NO MATTER WHAT CLAIM" you have to take all this into account. I've seen plenty of kids "dream" the wrong thing, remember most of the users who come here that are not ready will be around 18-22 years old, an age where they are "always right."

Some things are learning experiences - for the good or for the bad.
Thru research, as I've already suggested, you will sometimes take the initial steps and decide not to do what you thought was the oasis in the desert.
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Hopefully, me posting here will prevent people from thinking steroids are the end to all their problems and that they "should just do them."

Everything you've mentioned - he will read about . . . liver problems, etc, etc. ..

yes, I hope they read that instead of the "JUST DO IT SINCE YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT" statement.

And spreading false informatoin? ha - you're hilarious. You think that my reasoning is false!
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I think your logic is false. Allowing people to think they can just use steroids as an alternative to diet / food is just plain wrong.

Some people WILL do things no matter what. I said READ READ READ READ - do you comprehend this? When you tell someone - NO - some people take that as a YES.
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Actually, you said:

Yes, probably trying to go all natural is the best way, but you know what - just do them. If you're determined to do them, then just do them. Get it over with and if they work out for you - do some more. .

You did mention "research", but the point here is that you're advocating misuse and possible abuse of steroids. Instead of telling people they don't need steroids, you just assume they will do them no matter what you say. In my experience, I have talked MANY people out of using steroids when they don't need them - even when their mind was "made up" and the "dream" was there.

While you want to suggest that I'm the ignorant one, you're totally disregarding and ignoring the things that I've said. I agree - diet first - exercise first - do those first and I agree - if those don't work - then you know what - try them.
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Again, you're going back to the same point. They should not "just try steroids", they should look at their diet and training regiment to see what's wrong and what can be improved. The solution is usually in the the diet - 80% of the time.

Get it over with - you may never do them again. I've done coke once (ten years ago and liked it) and I've done marijuana a few times (it was ok), but I'm not ABUSING those - as you've led people to believe they'll just start on some massive steroid downward spiral.
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Point out the "downward" spiral for me please, where did I say that? I said steroid abuse happens because of false information provided to the user. Just because you like coke it doesn't mean that's what everyone should do. The "just do it" logic is not a wise one with steroids.

People try things all the time - you can be Daddy X and say No - and you can consider me Abusive ..

I am here to help educate people on steroid use. Part of what I do here is talk people OUT of using steroids when they don't need them.

So - it's his decision - and you can Just Say No all day long . . . and that won't change anything if his mind is set on them.

Saying no and providing logic behind it, as I have done, is very effective. I've worked with many people who have gone natural thanks to me. They stayed natural for about 4-5 years, reached a plateau, then considered AS use.

 

[narshh]

Great thread guys. Kind of rehashing a bit but man... what an effort.

 

[silver_shadow]

i remember this 16 yr old kid back when i first joined who thought that he could get approval to use AAS here on EF. turned out he had a *solid* 3 mths of training experience behind him and he saw other 15-16 yr old kids at his gym become "HYOOGE" by using steroids. anyway, everyone here told him he was crazy. the guy didn't take "no" for an answer and kept coming back for approval each time being told not to rather harshly. we pointed him to the diet and training boards and he finally accepted that he could use steroids much later in life. a few wks later he posted up saying that he had been eating like a horse and busting his ass in the gym while the rest of his peers were wasting time drinking. he said that he felt proud of himself and thanked everyone for pointing him in the correct direction.
there could be many more like him. on the flip side, there could be even more who'd just say "fuck you, you can't stop me". but some of the former would have still gone ahead and used steroids without first learning proper training/eating had there been no one to tell them it wasn't a bright idea. the important thing is that there is at least some chance that kids are not going to abuse steroids mindlessly if someone patiently reasons out with them. i've done steroids at 22 and i'm not proud of the fact that i used it as a crutch without having a clue how to eat and train. i now wish i had kept it for later.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I don't want to get caught in this argument here... but I am starting to get annoyed with people thinking that if you're 160 pounds or so, you should NOT start steroids.... now, if you qualified that statement by saying if you're under 24 years old *and* at 160lbs... then I would tend to agree.... natural test levels and a good diet will see you through.... but if you're over 25 years old, have tried naturally through diet and still haven't gotten decent gains... then why the heck shouldn't you start AAS?? especially if you're sufficiently prepared?

 

[timtim]

I don't want to get caught in this argument here... but I am starting to get annoyed with people thinking that if you're 160 pounds or so, you should NOT start steroids.... now, if you qualified that statement by saying if you're under 24 years old *and* at 160lbs... then I would tend to agree.... natural test levels and a good diet will see you through.... but if you're over 25 years old, have tried naturally through diet and still haven't gotten decent gains... then why the heck shouldn't you start AAS?? especially if you're sufficiently prepared?

i agree 100% if everything is in alignment and the years of hard work have been put in.

but i dont agree if they have little to no real training/dieting experience.

k to you.

 

[Mr.X]

I don't want to get caught in this argument here... but I am starting to get annoyed with people thinking that if you're 160 pounds or so, you should NOT start steroids.... now, if you qualified that statement by saying if you're under 24 years old *and* at 160lbs... then I would tend to agree.... natural test levels and a good diet will see you through.... but if you're over 25 years old, have tried naturally through diet and still haven't gotten decent gains... then why the heck shouldn't you start AAS?? especially if you're sufficiently prepared?

You are correct, age does play a factor in what I say; however, years training and dieting is also a factor. I can't agree in having a 25 yr old going on AS after 6 months of a diet/training regiment. It is a subjective call to a certain degree.

 

[njmuscleguy]

of course.... I wouldn't advocate jumping on board if someone hadn't put the time in at the gym and followed a proper diet.... that's just dumb... but it's just frustrating when you read people's posts that scoff at anyone who's under 200lbs... I'm 5'7" and personally, I don't want to be over 200lbs!

 

[Mr.X]

of course.... I wouldn't advocate jumping on board if someone hadn't put the time in at the gym and followed a proper diet.... that's just dumb... but it's just frustrating when you read people's posts that scoff at anyone who's under 200lbs... I'm 5'7" and personally, I don't want to be over 200lbs!

If you read back the posts. He does put out his height and there is a lack of diet/training knowledge present.

I am a strong advocate of making sure the user is fully aware of the need to reach genetic limits before using AS. I found the most bad PR and media/gov. attention comes from a particular group of users - newbies/teens/kids who are out to use steroids as a quick fix.

 

[maldorf]

If you read back the posts. He does put out his height and there is a lack of diet/training knowledge present.

I am a strong advocate of making sure the user is fully aware of the need to reach genetic limits before using AS. I found the most bad PR and media/gov. attention comes from a particular group of users - newbies/teens/kids who are out to use steroids as a quick fix.

Mr. X has been right on the buttone here. Unless a person has been lifting for years and has been eating right should they even think about AAS. Even then, AAS need only be taken when you hit that platueau where more growth just wont happen. I personally lifted from the age of 16 to the age of 28 before I even touched the stuff. At that point I was pretty sure that I wasnt growing much more and needed help.

 

[Mr.X]

I personally lifted from the age of 16 to the age of 28 before I even touched the stuff. At that point I was pretty sure that I wasnt growing much more and needed help.

That's good to hear bro