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smallmovesal
New member
how many think a lot of depression can be controlled by the person and how many think it's chemical?
antidepressants
- Thread starter smallmovesal
- Start date
being on prozac, i would definetely have to say it's a chemical imbalance. 3 of my aunts are on prozac too. i tried zoloft and it didn't work, this makes me think it is chemical even more.
yet, this does not mean a person is not in charge of their life. they do have to TRY to be happy.
yet, this does not mean a person is not in charge of their life. they do have to TRY to be happy.
smallmovesal
New member
well i'm having that dilemma because i'm on effexor and i'm having nightmares every night that people i know are pointing out my flaws...
i'm usually extremely organised and focused and i'm neither lately.
so i don't know if the drugs are helping or i just need to try harder...
i'm usually extremely organised and focused and i'm neither lately.
so i don't know if the drugs are helping or i just need to try harder...
In a lot of cases the drugs alone will only help for a short time. It is still a constant battle in your head.
I have been on almost every kind of anti-D out there but although they surpress feelings of doom, they are not a cure.
My head and a lot of people that have depression have trouble catching and concentrating there thoughts. The inside of my head in like the screen of the stock exchange 24 hrs a day. Its a battle I know I'm not alone in. Except it as part of you and control it. Although it can be tiring, it does not have to be a bad thing. It just takes mind control, maybe drugs and therapy if it gets really bad.
Don't ever be ashamed of it --- some people think its a blessing. Those types of people really understand how powerful the mind can be. And remember you are never alone in the way you are thinking.
I have been on almost every kind of anti-D out there but although they surpress feelings of doom, they are not a cure.
My head and a lot of people that have depression have trouble catching and concentrating there thoughts. The inside of my head in like the screen of the stock exchange 24 hrs a day. Its a battle I know I'm not alone in. Except it as part of you and control it. Although it can be tiring, it does not have to be a bad thing. It just takes mind control, maybe drugs and therapy if it gets really bad.
Don't ever be ashamed of it --- some people think its a blessing. Those types of people really understand how powerful the mind can be. And remember you are never alone in the way you are thinking.
tough call
medically the drugs are sound in theory as they stop an excess of this chemical in this area of the brain etc....
it all depends on the person and tghe nature of the depression. if without pills its hard to magae or even makes you enter a dangerous mind state, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with popping back a few pills. in fact there is never anthing wrong in principle with sensible use of a medical prescribed drugs. dont let others rile you up, and just keep doing what makes yopu feel good
medically the drugs are sound in theory as they stop an excess of this chemical in this area of the brain etc....
it all depends on the person and tghe nature of the depression. if without pills its hard to magae or even makes you enter a dangerous mind state, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with popping back a few pills. in fact there is never anthing wrong in principle with sensible use of a medical prescribed drugs. dont let others rile you up, and just keep doing what makes yopu feel good
smallmovesal
New member
to be honest i'm scaring me...
but thanks for that wombat. that really heped.
but thanks for that wombat. that really heped.
smallmovesal
New member
i was so worked up and upset yesterday i finally made myself a drink so i'd chill out a bit and i called a friend.
i'm losing confidence in myself, i'm losing muscle... looking for positives is not easy.
although i'm not dead or terminally ill...
i'm losing confidence in myself, i'm losing muscle... looking for positives is not easy.
although i'm not dead or terminally ill...
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
i still dont understand how people around our age get depressed. your in school, your pretty cute, you seem pretty dedicated to your work, what is there to be depressed about? everytime you feel shitty, you should just remind yourself of how young you are, how you will be starting a career after school, etc....
the world is to fun to feel depressed.
the world is to fun to feel depressed.
smallmovesal
New member
yeah i'm thinking i'll pick up some weights to keep at home... then i can take quick breaks from school stuff to do something at least.
i don't know why anyone would want me.. i'm just some chick who doesn't get out much.
winny it started when i got crapped on a lot at grad school... it was like mental abuse, i dropped ten pounds and finally quit and moved home for my health's sake... then when crap started to go wrong with my bf i just got bad again and it's been worse.
believe me this isn't usual for me and i don't wish it on anyone.
i don't know why anyone would want me.. i'm just some chick who doesn't get out much.
winny it started when i got crapped on a lot at grad school... it was like mental abuse, i dropped ten pounds and finally quit and moved home for my health's sake... then when crap started to go wrong with my bf i just got bad again and it's been worse.
believe me this isn't usual for me and i don't wish it on anyone.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
about the losing muscle thing, why dont you try a little anavar cycle? very mild, lots of women use it. you just dont have very good genetics in the muscle building department, dont think of using the gear as a shortcut, think of it as trying to get on a normal playing field with the women who can build muscle normally.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
smallmovesal said:
who crapped on you in grad school? the professors?
smallmovesal
New member
if i can make sure i fit in a couple workouts a week i'll think about anavar maybe... i don't know.
i probably shouldn't be on this board anymore because i don't work out anymore it seems. at christmas break i'll for sure get back into my 5 day routine.
winny i had a prof who was spreading untrue rumours about me to get the students and profs (who mostly weren't normal people, weird artists...) against me... saying i dressed too nicely and wore makeup so i obviously didn't do work, etc... she was an ugly, unhappy hag... but unfortunately she won because then i started avoiding school and working when no one was there... so it was shitty.
it was a really bad scene.
i probably shouldn't be on this board anymore because i don't work out anymore it seems. at christmas break i'll for sure get back into my 5 day routine.
winny i had a prof who was spreading untrue rumours about me to get the students and profs (who mostly weren't normal people, weird artists...) against me... saying i dressed too nicely and wore makeup so i obviously didn't do work, etc... she was an ugly, unhappy hag... but unfortunately she won because then i started avoiding school and working when no one was there... so it was shitty.
it was a really bad scene.
dont put yourself down. chicks like you can pick up guys nooo problem. trust me. i've not really chatted to you 1-1 to be able to know you fully but trust me most guys would. i have a penis so i should know 
a weights set at home might stop having to go to the gym but you dont want to be too much of a hermit like me. going to the gym can be a social thing if u know people down there, and trust me as a chick people will be itching for u to ask them for a spot
a weights set at home might stop having to go to the gym but you dont want to be too much of a hermit like me. going to the gym can be a social thing if u know people down there, and trust me as a chick people will be itching for u to ask them for a spot
Johnny Zampon said:
The #1 cause of death of people ages10 to 34 is suicide---
Age has nothing to do with what is in your mind. Anxiety and depression can be very serious and the answer is not that one has there whole life to lead, get over it. It can be very complexed but also simple. Sometimes one has to go through all the complexed shit before they understand how simple it can be. I'm still trying to master it but it can get a hold of me quite often.
smallmovesal
New member
this is going to sound bad but i've had suicidal thoughts more and more frequently. i'm not even considering it so don't think i'd do it... but i don't know why i'm having those thoughts. well, in a way i guess it's more that i'm tired of feeling this way. anyway they scare me.
and being a hermit makes me feel better most of the time.
and being a hermit makes me feel better most of the time.
Last edited:
smallmovesal said:
i know what this si lilke, all i can say is that everything gets better, sometimes you can't even see when it will. it seems like life will always be horrible but it gets better. i also had to do a lot of self-realization. you must understand to control the things you can and not to worry about the things you can't. it took me a year of telling myself this before it sank in.
puc was always my support for sucide. he use to come to my house at 3 am to just hug me. i will always love him for this. he has saved my life.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
Wombat said:
theres nothing you can say that will get me to change my mind. you believe what you want, but personally, i think people that stay depressed for long periods of times are just weak minded people. again, i have never ever gone through some kind of depressing period. but when i do feel depressed about a certain thing, i just look at all the positives in my life, which there are many. in smalls case for instance, i would not have let the prof get to me. i would have considered it a battle. i'm not going to let some hag bitch ruin my life. i would have gone down fighting. i think just leaving school was a bad move for smalls, upon reflection, i'm sure she wishes she had fought the thing, that to me is the most depressing thing about it, she will always look back and see that some hag bitch got the best of her.
this is what id do
go out a little more. to the gym, to an exercise class. try and hook up with old friends every once in a while. dont keep yourself isolated as it might help sometimes to get your feelings out to someone in person that u trust.
speak to some relatives maybe, some people you trust. at the end of the day the bad feelings will stop and you have a while life ahead of you...cutting it this short would really be a waste
go out a little more. to the gym, to an exercise class. try and hook up with old friends every once in a while. dont keep yourself isolated as it might help sometimes to get your feelings out to someone in person that u trust.
speak to some relatives maybe, some people you trust. at the end of the day the bad feelings will stop and you have a while life ahead of you...cutting it this short would really be a waste
smallmovesal said:
Everytime I have those thoughts I always come to the same conclusion and that is ---There is no way that I should be having these thoughts---and I'm not going to be fooled by them --- They are in my head because I allow them to be and I have total control over them. There a trigger points that start those feelings in people. Find out what your trigger points are and over come them. The more negitive influences you can get rid of in your life will only help you. If you are surrounded by negitive energy, you will be become part of it. Its really that simple but very hard to rid them of your life.
P
plifter
Guest
Well, I suffer from bipolar disorder. I get real high on life sometimes and then out of no where I feel like blowing my head off with a shotgun. I had been doing better lately and then the god damned terrorists attacked and something else happened to me and I became depressed again. I'm starting to come back out of the depression now.
I take xanax, serzone, and paxil but when I feel really low none of these do anything. I've almost decided that my life's circumstances are what makes me happy or depressed.
I take xanax, serzone, and paxil but when I feel really low none of these do anything. I've almost decided that my life's circumstances are what makes me happy or depressed.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
a lot of your problem smalls is that your still not over your ex.
smallmovesal
New member
no i really don't want to end anything...
and honestly winny i'm a fighter usually but it was just a really bad situation and my friend who is still there said she still thinks i made the right decision... besides, i didn't want to be a professional artist i had realised and the masters was just costing me money for nothing.
i am going to try to get out more. i cancelled plans last night because i was just too stressed and shaky. next weekend i'll be out though.
i don't know what is triggering these thoughts wombat.
i'm only on 75 mg... i'm starting to wonder if it's enough.
and honestly winny i'm a fighter usually but it was just a really bad situation and my friend who is still there said she still thinks i made the right decision... besides, i didn't want to be a professional artist i had realised and the masters was just costing me money for nothing.
i am going to try to get out more. i cancelled plans last night because i was just too stressed and shaky. next weekend i'll be out though.
i don't know what is triggering these thoughts wombat.
i'm only on 75 mg... i'm starting to wonder if it's enough.
smallmovesal
New member
Johnny Zampon said:
what do you mean?
and daised what is with my nightmares? they're nightly... and they don't stop.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
maybe the hag prof saw something in you and was trying to get it out of you. i dont know the whole situation but sometimes a prof will pick on a student cus the prof sees that the student has untapped potential. bottom line is that i believe depression is all in your head. i went through a nasty break up with a chick i'd been with for 6 years, i'm only 22, and i didnt get super depressed about it and ponder suicide. i just thought about how amazing i am and that pretty much made me forget about anything that was making me feel shitty.
Haven't read all the posts but I can tell you anti-depressants only mask the real problems. It is like if you break you leg and the doc only gives you painkillers. Well the leg is still broken but it just hurts less. You need to fix the broken leg before you do anything. Depression can be caused by stress, diet and most docs are only to happy to prescribe something. Everyone needs to get payed. You go to the doc every month, doc gets payed, drug company gets payed when you refill, and so on and so on. Eat a good diet of unrefined food, try skilled relation, i.e meditation and with the right exercise you'll be good. Or you can live the same lifestyle and take a pill and complain about your problems. Only my opinion and not directed towards anyone in this post.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
smallmovesal said:
i mean that most people that have gone through a 6 year relationship dont get back to normal within a couple months. it takes time to get used to a new routine, a new way of life in a sense. are you saying that you are completely over him and that your former relationship with him doesnt make you feel shitty and depressed? you dont even have to answer that, i know your answer.
ahhh! i am so mad, people wonder why i am depressed well here is a little clue in...
a guy who graduated last year calls me up. i tell him i cut my hair short and he gets mad being like- why did you do that? i bet it looks stupid!- then he insults a person i am dating, and asks me if i wanted to do something tonight. i don't think he said one nice thing to me on the phone. i told him i had to have dinner with my family and hung up. last year though something like this would have made me really upset, why do people be mean? and for no reason too.
a guy who graduated last year calls me up. i tell him i cut my hair short and he gets mad being like- why did you do that? i bet it looks stupid!- then he insults a person i am dating, and asks me if i wanted to do something tonight. i don't think he said one nice thing to me on the phone. i told him i had to have dinner with my family and hung up. last year though something like this would have made me really upset, why do people be mean? and for no reason too.
smallmovesal
New member
i don't know... that's what my nightmares are all like... it's horrible.
why do i have dreams like that?
why do i have dreams like that?
satanic goatslayer
New member
#1) Train, whining that you didn't doesn't help anything.
#2) Eat, or don't be surprised when you lose weight.
#3) Get off of the antidepressants, they're not working.
#4) Eat your dearest friend's flesh.
Simple as successive strangulations.
#2) Eat, or don't be surprised when you lose weight.
#3) Get off of the antidepressants, they're not working.
#4) Eat your dearest friend's flesh.
Simple as successive strangulations.
M
MoneyBags
Guest
people only use anti-depressants because they are miserable and they want to feel better fast. they dont do anything to make your life better. you are miserable because your life sucks. its not anything chemical. you just are living a boring shitty life and you dont know how to make it better so the easiest way to do it is to take drugs.
Taps
New member
Smalls...
Sounds like you're having a tough time.
Look, what you're going through sucks...I've been there, and I have friends who've been there. A dear friend of mine tried to kill herself once, because she just couldn't get a handle on her depression. I know we're not really close, but if you want to talk about it, gimmie a call...I'll be around.
I'm no doctor, but from my experience depression is both a mental and chemical problem. The best solution for bad cases is a combination of drugs and therapy.
Therapy!?! Ack! Sounds scary, eh?
You'd be surprised how many people need it...I mean really need it. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes you just can't handle things on your own. Talk to your doc about trying new anti-d's...sometimes they lose thier effectivness after a while.
Also, it may be difficult, but you should really talk to your family about it as well. Ask your parents if there's a history of depression in your family, or if either of them suffered from it.
Chemical depression sucks...it's one of the worst feelings in the world. No matter how succesful/attractive/popular someone is, they just feel worse and worse.
Oh, and I hate to preach..but you shouldn't mix booze and anti-d's. Bad idea.
Take care of yourself...and really, if you want to chat lemmie know.
Sounds like you're having a tough time.
Look, what you're going through sucks...I've been there, and I have friends who've been there. A dear friend of mine tried to kill herself once, because she just couldn't get a handle on her depression. I know we're not really close, but if you want to talk about it, gimmie a call...I'll be around.I'm no doctor, but from my experience depression is both a mental and chemical problem. The best solution for bad cases is a combination of drugs and therapy.
Therapy!?! Ack! Sounds scary, eh?
You'd be surprised how many people need it...I mean really need it. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes you just can't handle things on your own. Talk to your doc about trying new anti-d's...sometimes they lose thier effectivness after a while. Also, it may be difficult, but you should really talk to your family about it as well. Ask your parents if there's a history of depression in your family, or if either of them suffered from it.
Chemical depression sucks...it's one of the worst feelings in the world. No matter how succesful/attractive/popular someone is, they just feel worse and worse.
Oh, and I hate to preach..but you shouldn't mix booze and anti-d's. Bad idea.
Take care of yourself...and really, if you want to chat lemmie know.
smallmovesal
New member
thanks... i've just had a lot of crap going on in the past year...
i don't want to tell my mum about some of this stuff because she worries about me enough.. i know i'll manage stuff but it's just hard.
i don't know if there's a history but my sister went through a major depression a few years ago in med school... she was in really bad shape and had to take some time off. she weighed less than 100lbs because her body was just all messed up and it took a while for her to get back to normal.
i don't know what the hell my problem is but it sure sucks.
i don't want to tell my mum about some of this stuff because she worries about me enough.. i know i'll manage stuff but it's just hard.
i don't know if there's a history but my sister went through a major depression a few years ago in med school... she was in really bad shape and had to take some time off. she weighed less than 100lbs because her body was just all messed up and it took a while for her to get back to normal.
i don't know what the hell my problem is but it sure sucks.
M
MoneyBags
Guest
depression is just bullshit. you are just a miserable person. there is no chemical imbalance. your life isnt even difficult. you have it easier than most people.
smallmovesal
New member
yeah i just talked to my sister on the phone actually...
Depression is most certainly not bullshit. I was a miserable fuck for most of my life and it destroyed every relationship I had. When I finally woke up anbd saw how miserable my second wife was and how I was endangering my relationship with my first son, I tried to kill myself. (This was before I owned any firearms.)
It wasn't for attention, because when I failed, I felt humiliated, and I didn't get any sympathy from anyone anyway.
[Anyone wanting to see what dpression feels like should read Stegner's Darkness Visible]
I got on anti-depressants. It relieved things enough that I was able to use my mind constructively and put things in perspective. When you are depressed, it seems that you lose the ability to keep things in perspective, and that is a huge fucking loss. Loading the dishwasher would bring me to tears, and dn't try to tell me taht was because I lacked self-discipline or wanted to be miserable.
Because I am on mds, I am able to be insanely happy with my third wife and second son. We have ups and downs; I am not an emotionless zombie. Sometimes I get sad, but it's not debilitating.
For instance, there is a 75% chance that I will lose my job this week. This disturbs me and I feel an appropriate amount of anxiety, but I am not reduced to tears and involuntary inaction.
Since I don't like being on meds, every so often I will "test" whether I still need them by reducing my dosage or going off them. Well, I do still need them, though I despise needing them.
Believe me, nobody would feel this way of their own volition.
If you are comparing sadness to depression, you're comparing the flu to cancer, man.
Peace,
Weapon X
It wasn't for attention, because when I failed, I felt humiliated, and I didn't get any sympathy from anyone anyway.
[Anyone wanting to see what dpression feels like should read Stegner's Darkness Visible]
I got on anti-depressants. It relieved things enough that I was able to use my mind constructively and put things in perspective. When you are depressed, it seems that you lose the ability to keep things in perspective, and that is a huge fucking loss. Loading the dishwasher would bring me to tears, and dn't try to tell me taht was because I lacked self-discipline or wanted to be miserable.
Because I am on mds, I am able to be insanely happy with my third wife and second son. We have ups and downs; I am not an emotionless zombie. Sometimes I get sad, but it's not debilitating.
For instance, there is a 75% chance that I will lose my job this week. This disturbs me and I feel an appropriate amount of anxiety, but I am not reduced to tears and involuntary inaction.
Since I don't like being on meds, every so often I will "test" whether I still need them by reducing my dosage or going off them. Well, I do still need them, though I despise needing them.
Believe me, nobody would feel this way of their own volition.
If you are comparing sadness to depression, you're comparing the flu to cancer, man.
Peace,
Weapon X
musclebrains
New member
Smalls: As a clinician, I can tell you that the nightmares are probably transitory, if you recently began the Effexor. It's a classic side effect of nearly all the antideps.
Effexor is not always prescribed alone when depression is diagnosed, by the way. I am curious to know if the drug was prescribed by a GP or a psychiatrist, if you fully described your depression, etc.
You are describing more than the average reactive depression, but a deepening depression that's occurred over time. So you are right to consider meds. But Taps is right in suggesting you combine them with therapy. If you don't have access to a therapist, people are right to tell you that you should talk to SOMEONE. Depression tends to feed on itself. The less you talk about what's going on, the more isolated you become in your despondency.
My own practice is unusual -- limited to artists, including writers, musicians, etc. I am very interested that you decided against an artist's carreer, that you were abused by the nazi in your dept. I am wondering if you have continued to make art. The production of images is the usual way artists work out their process. If you've interrupted that, it wouldn't help.
Effexor is not always prescribed alone when depression is diagnosed, by the way. I am curious to know if the drug was prescribed by a GP or a psychiatrist, if you fully described your depression, etc.
You are describing more than the average reactive depression, but a deepening depression that's occurred over time. So you are right to consider meds. But Taps is right in suggesting you combine them with therapy. If you don't have access to a therapist, people are right to tell you that you should talk to SOMEONE. Depression tends to feed on itself. The less you talk about what's going on, the more isolated you become in your despondency.
My own practice is unusual -- limited to artists, including writers, musicians, etc. I am very interested that you decided against an artist's carreer, that you were abused by the nazi in your dept. I am wondering if you have continued to make art. The production of images is the usual way artists work out their process. If you've interrupted that, it wouldn't help.
smallmovesal
New member
well, my sister wants me to go to see someone about my dosage... as much as i hate therapy maybe i need it.
i am still making work at design school...
i am still making work at design school...
Anti D's are the most OVER-prescribd drug out there. They come out with symptome like "tired" OR "having bad days" or "trouble eating'...hey it's fucking called LIFE.
Sometimes i can't sleep. Sometimes my appetite is fucked (especially with chick problems...we've all been there) - fucking SHIT HAPPENS.
But Skywalker.....doesn't my doctor know better than you???
Maybe - but your doctor is a member of an HMO that subscribes to a druig rating company - which rates the drugs that should be most often prescribed.
Guess who owns them......you got it, pharmaceutical companies....
and if a doctor doesn;t choose from the list, he/she runs the risk of getting kicked out of the HMO (and losing his/her income) so at the end of the day
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE BEST DRUG FOR YOU
anit-D's are a sham.
Sometimes i can't sleep. Sometimes my appetite is fucked (especially with chick problems...we've all been there) - fucking SHIT HAPPENS.
But Skywalker.....doesn't my doctor know better than you???
Maybe - but your doctor is a member of an HMO that subscribes to a druig rating company - which rates the drugs that should be most often prescribed.
Guess who owns them......you got it, pharmaceutical companies....
and if a doctor doesn;t choose from the list, he/she runs the risk of getting kicked out of the HMO (and losing his/her income) so at the end of the day
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE BEST DRUG FOR YOU
anit-D's are a sham.
"i think people that stay depressed for long periods of times are just weak minded people. again, i have never ever gone through some kind of depressing period."
Zampon I can tell you that many "great" and intelligent and accomplished people battle with depression.
Why don't people understand that depression really doesn't need a "reason".Then again if you need a reason there are plenty.Only stupid people are always happy.
Smallmovesal,I've also cycled Effexor at 75mg max and it has helped me.How long have you been on?Like said,it takes awhile to kick in and depression can sometimes worsen in the beginning.
Zampon I can tell you that many "great" and intelligent and accomplished people battle with depression.
Why don't people understand that depression really doesn't need a "reason".Then again if you need a reason there are plenty.Only stupid people are always happy.
Smallmovesal,I've also cycled Effexor at 75mg max and it has helped me.How long have you been on?Like said,it takes awhile to kick in and depression can sometimes worsen in the beginning.
smallmovesal
New member
i've been on since about the middle of august
musclebrains
New member
smallmovesal said:
Um, who prescribed the Effexor? You would be much better off getting a full work-up with a psychiatrist. They don't do anything but study these drugs now, typically. Your dose is probably too low, in any case.
I assume you understand that one characteristic of depression is stasis, a kind of hopelessness about any remedy, so it is natural to resist therapy in that state. (It's almost as if the depression has a mind of its own and it is easy prey for the cultural myth, repeated here, that depression and drugs to treat it are all a big game and scam.) Might I suggest you follow X's advice and read William Styron's "Darkness Visible." It is the best piece on depression I've ever read. (I'm glad we agree on something X!)
I do think certain sacrifices or compromises are made when you decide to medicate but, in a very black depression, these are usually worth taking on. I urge you to see someone right away. I'm sure your sister has made the point to you that depressions of the type you are describing seldom resolve themselve spontaneously with any efficiency.
sathanas said:
I never used those words or belittled depression. You have put ugly words in my mouth - VERY UGLY.
All i did was call attention to the reality about doctors and what is prescribed.
sathanas said:
I never used those words or belittled depression. You have put ugly words in my mouth - VERY UGLY.
All i did was call attention to the reality about doctors and what is prescribed.
smallmovesal
New member
my family doc prescribed it... i only went at the urging of my sister.
anyway, i'll likely be going pretty soon.
thanks..
anyway, i'll likely be going pretty soon.
thanks..
B
Balls of Steel
Guest
Smalls, why would you be depressed when you are so hot?
If you were ugly I could see, but your not.
If you were ugly I could see, but your not.
B
buksoon
Guest
Smalls, there is a quote that I think must be the truest words ever said.
"Between pain and nothing, choose pain."
That's the difference between sadness (something matters so much it hurts) and depression (nothing matters at all).
I've always said that sadness (a normal part of life) is a walk in the park next to depression! A walk in the park while eating a fudgicle!! No matter what tragedies I might have dealt with (my father's death, my best friend's murder, whatever), the feeling is never as bad as depression. 'Cause you want to die.
I do believe it can be biochemical, a snafu in the wiring. I also agree that "depression" in a clinical sense is probably over-diagnosed. Sometimes it's just ... existential angst!! "What's the meaning of it all?" syndrome.
All thinking people go through that (hence the connection that Test Boy wondered about between outer success and the blahs). That's nothing to worry about. But if it lasts, then yes DEFINITELY see someone about meds.
Anyway, you're Smalls! You told me in a pm that you were "easy-going"! DON'T FORGET THAT ABOUT YOURSELF!
And just look at my current thread and think: "At least I'm not HER, now that's just SAD!"
"Between pain and nothing, choose pain."
That's the difference between sadness (something matters so much it hurts) and depression (nothing matters at all).
I've always said that sadness (a normal part of life) is a walk in the park next to depression! A walk in the park while eating a fudgicle!! No matter what tragedies I might have dealt with (my father's death, my best friend's murder, whatever), the feeling is never as bad as depression. 'Cause you want to die.
I do believe it can be biochemical, a snafu in the wiring. I also agree that "depression" in a clinical sense is probably over-diagnosed. Sometimes it's just ... existential angst!! "What's the meaning of it all?" syndrome.
All thinking people go through that (hence the connection that Test Boy wondered about between outer success and the blahs). That's nothing to worry about. But if it lasts, then yes DEFINITELY see someone about meds.
Anyway, you're Smalls! You told me in a pm that you were "easy-going"! DON'T FORGET THAT ABOUT YOURSELF!
And just look at my current thread and think: "At least I'm not HER, now that's just SAD!"
smallmovesal
New member
as IF i'd think that about you.. silly
Smallmoves---
If you want my opinion here it is:
Drugs can help depression, but the help is only temporary. Scientific studies have found that only in 13% of cases do genetics play the primiary role in creating depression.
This information is gathered from "mono-zygotic" twin adoptions studies. Basically, what scientists do is find 2 identical twins that were reared apart by seperate parents. Because they both have an identical genetic make up, only their enviroments are different. If depression is primarly caused by genetics, then you would find regardless of enviroment, a high correlation of depression in both twins (since enviroment wouldnt effect a person getting depression)
However, they find only a 10-18% concordance rate of depression in twins that were reared apart.
Im telling you this because theres a prevelent misconception in todays media and medical community that "pills" can solve depression. They can most certainly help, but like I said, most of depression orginates from a persons enviroment, more specifically, depression orginates from the "maladaptive" cognitive stratgies people pick up while they are growing up ------they learn to think in irrational ways about themselves and events that effect them. This irrational thinking causes them to see themselves usually in a very negative light. In addition, most events that are positive and fulfilling to non-depressed people, depressed people tend to discount because of their irrational cognitive beliefs.
So , it really comes down to changing permantly your own "cognitive stratgies", or the way you talk to urself. This is called cognitive therapy and its the most effective treatment for depression as compared to drugs and other forms of psychotherapy. What cognitive therapy is , is just cognitive restructuring or learning to think in ways that are more rational and positive. It takes repitition, and its always best to seek the help of a mental health care worker, spefically a psychologist whom you like, that can guide you in this process of cognitive restructing.
But it works. I know from experience. I have social anxiety and was major depression for over 5-6 years of my life. Third year university i was considering killing myself. I know how hard depression can be and I know how much sufffering it brings. I really feel for you. But you can get better, and the way to that is by starting cognitive therapy.
Im a psychology and sociology undergrad at a Canadian university, and one thing we repeatedly learn in my psych classes that deal with mood disorders is that most, especially depression can be treated with drugs, but drugs are not the long term answer. Rather they are a stepping stone, if you will , that give the depressed person a boost to continue with cognitive therapy and their daily activities.
We live in a world where the quick fix is highly praised. Alot of neuropharamcology rests on the assumption that if anti-depressent medication can change neurotransmitter levels, then why shouldnt it permanently change the persons mood? The answer is simple:
1) the brain is extremely complex and neuroscientists are only beginging to uncover how the brain stores information/memorys in molecular form (just changing neurotransmitter levels doesnt address how memory are stored, how information is stored , how "positive" feelings about ones self image can be realeased ectect )
2) the enviroment, and the actions that the person engages in, can alter and change the neurochemical composition in the brain
#2 is fundamental to why and how you will get better. By practicing cognitive therapy, it actually changes the neuronal connections and neurotransmitter levels in ur brain.
Thats alot to digest, but do some research and find a good psychologist who can help you with cognitive therapy. Heres a good self help book too about depression (one of the best):
Feeling GOod: The New Mood Therapy
Dr David Burns
This book outlines cognitive stratigies that you can do at home. OVercoming depression takes time and persistence. Your thought patterns wont change automatically, but once you being cognitive therapy and being doing these little cognitive excerises daily, the brain gets "into the habit" of thinkiing more rationally, and positivly.
Good luck, I know you can do it
If you want my opinion here it is:
Drugs can help depression, but the help is only temporary. Scientific studies have found that only in 13% of cases do genetics play the primiary role in creating depression.
This information is gathered from "mono-zygotic" twin adoptions studies. Basically, what scientists do is find 2 identical twins that were reared apart by seperate parents. Because they both have an identical genetic make up, only their enviroments are different. If depression is primarly caused by genetics, then you would find regardless of enviroment, a high correlation of depression in both twins (since enviroment wouldnt effect a person getting depression)
However, they find only a 10-18% concordance rate of depression in twins that were reared apart.
Im telling you this because theres a prevelent misconception in todays media and medical community that "pills" can solve depression. They can most certainly help, but like I said, most of depression orginates from a persons enviroment, more specifically, depression orginates from the "maladaptive" cognitive stratgies people pick up while they are growing up ------they learn to think in irrational ways about themselves and events that effect them. This irrational thinking causes them to see themselves usually in a very negative light. In addition, most events that are positive and fulfilling to non-depressed people, depressed people tend to discount because of their irrational cognitive beliefs.
So , it really comes down to changing permantly your own "cognitive stratgies", or the way you talk to urself. This is called cognitive therapy and its the most effective treatment for depression as compared to drugs and other forms of psychotherapy. What cognitive therapy is , is just cognitive restructuring or learning to think in ways that are more rational and positive. It takes repitition, and its always best to seek the help of a mental health care worker, spefically a psychologist whom you like, that can guide you in this process of cognitive restructing.
But it works. I know from experience. I have social anxiety and was major depression for over 5-6 years of my life. Third year university i was considering killing myself. I know how hard depression can be and I know how much sufffering it brings. I really feel for you. But you can get better, and the way to that is by starting cognitive therapy.
Im a psychology and sociology undergrad at a Canadian university, and one thing we repeatedly learn in my psych classes that deal with mood disorders is that most, especially depression can be treated with drugs, but drugs are not the long term answer. Rather they are a stepping stone, if you will
, that give the depressed person a boost to continue with cognitive therapy and their daily activities. We live in a world where the quick fix is highly praised. Alot of neuropharamcology rests on the assumption that if anti-depressent medication can change neurotransmitter levels, then why shouldnt it permanently change the persons mood? The answer is simple:
1) the brain is extremely complex and neuroscientists are only beginging to uncover how the brain stores information/memorys in molecular form (just changing neurotransmitter levels doesnt address how memory are stored, how information is stored , how "positive" feelings about ones self image can be realeased ectect )
2) the enviroment, and the actions that the person engages in, can alter and change the neurochemical composition in the brain
#2 is fundamental to why and how you will get better. By practicing cognitive therapy, it actually changes the neuronal connections and neurotransmitter levels in ur brain.
Thats alot to digest, but do some research and find a good psychologist who can help you with cognitive therapy. Heres a good self help book too about depression (one of the best):
Feeling GOod: The New Mood Therapy
Dr David Burns
This book outlines cognitive stratigies that you can do at home. OVercoming depression takes time and persistence. Your thought patterns wont change automatically, but once you being cognitive therapy and being doing these little cognitive excerises daily, the brain gets "into the habit" of thinkiing more rationally, and positivly.
Good luck, I know you can do it
musclebrains
New member
smallmovesal said:
You only need to call to see if you can increase your dose. The psychiatrist who supervises my clients' meds, like most, permits them to experiment with their dosages.
Frankly, I tell my clients in your position to go ahead and increase their doses immediately and then call the MD asap. But if yoiu dont' have that agreement, I guess you shouldn't.
I am interested that so many guys here tell you you shouldn't be depressed because you're beautiful (which you certainly are). And yet, here, on a board where many guys are shooting steroids to look better, many are reporting depression themselves.
smallmovesal
New member
thanks... i know it's temporary but everytime i start getting/feeling ok i just fall again.
i know i'll get better eventually... i'm trying to stay more positive. i have really good days and then really bad ones...
i know i'll get better eventually... i'm trying to stay more positive. i have really good days and then really bad ones...
B
Balls of Steel
Guest
This board depresses me. I cant stand arguing with people who aren't even in my league when it comes to intelligence.
btw, in response to musclebrains post
gonadal steroids indirectly effect neurotransmitter levels. Its best not to be on steroids if ur suspectable to depression, since some will give u that "Crash" feeling after u go off.
I took a course on hormnes and behaviour/endcrinology, so Im no specialist, but I do know steroids do effect neurotransmitter levels, so u might want to take that under advisement
gonadal steroids indirectly effect neurotransmitter levels. Its best not to be on steroids if ur suspectable to depression, since some will give u that "Crash" feeling after u go off.
I took a course on hormnes and behaviour/endcrinology, so Im no specialist, but I do know steroids do effect neurotransmitter levels, so u might want to take that under advisement
smallmovesal
New member
lol look at me... i ain't on anything...
B
Balls of Steel
Guest
I hear when hamhock gets depressed, he just starts counting the hairs on his dick. But after 20 seconds, he is depressed again and has to start counting the hairs on his bf's dick.
B
Balls of Steel
Guest
I dont mean to sound like an asshole, but if everyone in the world was da shit like I am, then depression would cease to exist.
musclebrains
New member
smallmovesal said:
Grrrrrrrr. Get your dosage adjusted!!! The ups and downs probably have nothing to do with your attitude but are tied to not having enough of the chemical in your system.
musclebrains
New member
buddy28 said:
Yeah, I was wondering if the use of steroids itself might not contribute to depression in many men here. It seems like an abnormally high percentage of people reporting depresson serious enough to warrant medication. But maybe it's not.
musclebrains
I dont have my endcrinology book here , so I cant give u the specifics, but I do know jacking a persons system with artifical hormones reeks havoc on a persons bodys hormonal system.
Hormones and neurotransmitters indirectly effect the production and secretion of each using different forms of positive/negative feedback looks.
If I remember correctly the pituatary gland is the juncture between neurotransmitters and hormonal secretion. Neurotransmitters acting through the hypothalamus stimulate neurons in the pituatary that go on to release hormones that effect the secretion and production of other hormones in the bodys visceral hormone glands ex gonads.
In turn, the level of hormones in a person system, regulate the amount of neurotransmitters that are released in the brain. In that way, both hormones and neurotransmitter levels are effected by each other. This is one of the fascinating characteristics of the human body: its ability to find homostasis using different indications of internal activity.
Im no expert, but thats the basics of how hormone levels can effect neurotransmitter activity.
How do u quote someone btw??? like how u quoted me
I dont have my endcrinology book here , so I cant give u the specifics, but I do know jacking a persons system with artifical hormones reeks havoc on a persons bodys hormonal system.
Hormones and neurotransmitters indirectly effect the production and secretion of each using different forms of positive/negative feedback looks.
If I remember correctly the pituatary gland is the juncture between neurotransmitters and hormonal secretion. Neurotransmitters acting through the hypothalamus stimulate neurons in the pituatary that go on to release hormones that effect the secretion and production of other hormones in the bodys visceral hormone glands ex gonads.
In turn, the level of hormones in a person system, regulate the amount of neurotransmitters that are released in the brain. In that way, both hormones and neurotransmitter levels are effected by each other. This is one of the fascinating characteristics of the human body: its ability to find homostasis using different indications of internal activity.
Im no expert, but thats the basics of how hormone levels can effect neurotransmitter activity.
How do u quote someone btw??? like how u quoted me
smallmovesal said:well i'm having that dilemma because i'm on effexor and i'm having nightmares every night that people i know are pointing out my flaws...
i'm usually extremely organised and focused and i'm neither lately.
so i don't know if the drugs are helping or i just need to try harder...
smalls
I am on meds; I dunno how much/if they help but lots of people seem to think they do.
Anyway I think that most people who know about it think that meds alone won't totally help; you need friends and a balanced life, probably, to feel better. Meds can't totally fix things like stress in your life, lack of sleep, an isolated life, etc. Those are things you can begin to work on and hopefully it will help you feel better, gradually. Good luck...
love
Helen
I suspect steroids make people feel better as a rule. Perhaps they were already depressed and decided to try and improve their life by looking better? Crashing post cycle is bad news until the nuts are online again. I suspect that extremely heavy lifting turns a lot of people into vegetables. So they do little or nothing when not at the gym. Hence...depression. Also, the WTC disaster has put the whole country in a funk. Unless they are sympathetic to OBL...some are.
smallmovesal
New member
daised i'm like that too... really sensitive
ya, i've always been this way. wheni was little my parents use to make fun of me for it! can you believe that? i don't know what to tell you. i always get let down by people- people who i thought were my friends. it takes a while to realise that people will always let you down, just don't let yourself down.
smallmovesal
New member
you sound a lot like me... my brother and sister are much stronger personalities and they used to pick on me.
i know what that is like. i'm finally over most of my depression. therapy really helped. also i finally stopped letting people tell me who i was, this sounds strange but when it comes to peer pressure i was the worst. so much so that i was making myself depressed by being someone i wasn't. now i'm finally in a group of friends i like, i can just be me- i don't have to try. but it wasn't easy to get to this pointsmallmovesal said:
ps. i'm going to bed- good night, hope you don't have any nightmares (i also get them all the time, puc use to tell me a bed time story every night b4 i went to sleep)
smallmovesal
New member
thanks. night
seeseerider
New member
smallmovesal said:
Small,read this all the way down... http://www.trans4mind.u-net.com/depression.html
I have a serious Anxiety disorder as well as clinical depression. I was always an anxious and 'sensitive' kid. I am on Paxil (anti-depressant) and Serzone (anti-anxeity).
I was diagnosed as my second marriage fell apart during the Spring of 1995. That makes 6 years on meds. I was also in counselling for about 3 years.
I would like to hear from someone who was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and who was able to cure it with dietary changes, herbs, self-help books, or counselling alone. The only people that claim to have done so all seem to be selling something.
I was diagnosed as my second marriage fell apart during the Spring of 1995. That makes 6 years on meds. I was also in counselling for about 3 years.
I would like to hear from someone who was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and who was able to cure it with dietary changes, herbs, self-help books, or counselling alone. The only people that claim to have done so all seem to be selling something.
WeaponX
I was clincally depressed for 6-7 years of my life, and I have social anxiety.
Im not completly over social anxiety but most of my depression has recessed.
I posted a good note on cognitive therapy on this thread. THats the ticket if you want to overcome depression without relying fully on meds. Cognitive therapy is scientifically proven to be as effective in treating severe depression as meds in the short term, and significantly more effasive than meds in preventing relapse.
Cognitive therapy basically helps u think more rationally and realistic. Its something u can practice everyday, and this repitition of cognitive exercises helps ur brain get into the routine of automatically thinking more positive.
It works like this. Most people feel like shit if someone tells them they are stupid or ugly for an extended period of time. Y? The person internalizes these negative remarks and eventually her brain begins to repeat them. The person unconsciously or consciously tell themselves "Im stupid, or no one will like me cause im ugly" and they get depressed. Cognitive therapy helps break up that negative irrational thinking by replacing automatic negative thoughts with more rational positive thoughts like "mabey, Im not as ugly as i used to think, and mabey more people like me than i once thought"
In this way the brain is forced to challenge these negative beliefs, and thank the lord, our brains are constructed so that rational realisitic thoughts are more powerful than negative beliefs.
I know it sounds kinda gay, but this is true . They way we think determines how we feel. If we are constantly thinking negative and self defeating thoughts, then how we feel is going to be shitty and depressed. When we learn to challenge these irrational beleifs that make us feel like shit, our depression recedes and we become happier and ourselves
theres some good info in my post in this thread. if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
What anxiety disorder do u have btw?
I was clincally depressed for 6-7 years of my life, and I have social anxiety.
Im not completly over social anxiety but most of my depression has recessed.
I posted a good note on cognitive therapy on this thread. THats the ticket if you want to overcome depression without relying fully on meds. Cognitive therapy is scientifically proven to be as effective in treating severe depression as meds in the short term, and significantly more effasive than meds in preventing relapse.
Cognitive therapy basically helps u think more rationally and realistic. Its something u can practice everyday, and this repitition of cognitive exercises helps ur brain get into the routine of automatically thinking more positive.
It works like this. Most people feel like shit if someone tells them they are stupid or ugly for an extended period of time. Y? The person internalizes these negative remarks and eventually her brain begins to repeat them. The person unconsciously or consciously tell themselves "Im stupid, or no one will like me cause im ugly" and they get depressed. Cognitive therapy helps break up that negative irrational thinking by replacing automatic negative thoughts with more rational positive thoughts like "mabey, Im not as ugly as i used to think, and mabey more people like me than i once thought"
In this way the brain is forced to challenge these negative beliefs, and thank the lord, our brains are constructed so that rational realisitic thoughts are more powerful than negative beliefs.
I know it sounds kinda gay, but this is true . They way we think determines how we feel. If we are constantly thinking negative and self defeating thoughts, then how we feel is going to be shitty and depressed. When we learn to challenge these irrational beleifs that make us feel like shit, our depression recedes and we become happier and ourselves
theres some good info in my post in this thread. if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
What anxiety disorder do u have btw?
smallmovesal
New member
seeseerider... we do have thyroid issues in my family and my mum did suggest i get it tested... i dunno. i'm going to call my doc or find someone in town t discuss what i should be doing. this is ridiculous and it makes me mad i even have to deal with this when i have too much else to do and this is just making life complicated. urr.
smallmovesal said:
Yeah, it is annoying...
Definitely though, have tests on anything in your family history...a competent doctor ought to know to test to see if you have some very physical-based issue such as underactive thyroid, before assuming anti-depressants is the only way to go, medically...
to know 'how bad' it is, think about whether you can have a really good time on a fun weekend with friends say, where you get away from 'normal life' or whether even that can't move you anymore, or whether you would just back out of something like that...those are the kinds of things that can tell you the difference between whether you are clinically depressed or rather seriously pissed off with your life, but not into clinical depression. (Anti-depressants are described for 'seriously pissed off' as well, I'm sure...I was just saying it's a way for you to know where you're at...if there are SOME things you still enjoy & love you are not in terrible shape smalls...just saying...but be safe if you get to the point of suicidal thoughts...DEFINITELY GO TELL SOMEONE LOCAL TO YOU THAT YOU TRUST if you ever start thinking suicide is a viable solution...or if you can't, then do call someone here, even...anything...but don't try to deal with that alone if it gets that bad, please...
love
Helen
chillin408
New member
I would rather take med's than go to therapy. This could be because therapy has proven itself to me to be a waste of time. This is a personal opinion only, it probably/might help others, probably depends on the person.Maybe I never ran a therapist with the ability and willingness to help me, but I am not going to search forever, besides therapy is a lot more time consuming than taking med's.
The only problem I have is getting the med's. The doctors I've seen will prescribe ssri's, and other "non-addicting" med's very easy...well pretty easily, if you ask for prozac, they may give you paxil..just because you asked for prozac and thats not good.
I've had a terrible time getting benzo's, they are the only thing that has helped me. In addition I"m also trying to acquire ADD med's...having a hell of a time.. None of the doctors I have seen actually try to help you and care. Some pretend they do till you question them.
Maybe this is slighty off topic from anti-depressents, but just sneaking it in,hopefully if its cool with everyone. Anyone else have a similar scenario where the doc's are not willing to prescribe benzo's or only short-term? I hear its very common.
The only problem I have is getting the med's. The doctors I've seen will prescribe ssri's, and other "non-addicting" med's very easy...well pretty easily, if you ask for prozac, they may give you paxil..just because you asked for prozac and thats not good.
I've had a terrible time getting benzo's, they are the only thing that has helped me. In addition I"m also trying to acquire ADD med's...having a hell of a time.. None of the doctors I have seen actually try to help you and care. Some pretend they do till you question them.
Maybe this is slighty off topic from anti-depressents, but just sneaking it in,hopefully if its cool with everyone. Anyone else have a similar scenario where the doc's are not willing to prescribe benzo's or only short-term? I hear its very common.
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chillin408 said:
I found counseling (therapy/whatever
) more helpful than I thought it would be. In fact I told my counselor "Hey this is better than I thought...I thought I might as well just look in a mirror as come see you and have you point out stuff I already know but I just don't do" 
I don't expect he felt especially affirmed by that...but maybe he did
Tell the truth anyhow is the way I try to live... I also tell him if he hurts my feelings etc so he can not do it again.
But overall it's really nice to AT LEAST have someone who listens to what I say and has intelligent responses and isn't saying all the stupid ignorant things other people say like, if I describe an interpersonal problem "what did YOU do to upset THEM???" is mostly all I hear from other quote-unquote "friends" (or so they USED TO BE).
So yeah, I would say that counseling can have value.
However I would also still say that a good conversation with a kind and wise friend can do as much, often, as counseling. In fact it can do more in that it's not 'unequal' as in your friend can say "you're full of s*it" but the counselor may well not do that since they focus on affirming you...and you are financing their life also...
I'd hope a good one would but who knows. Part of the problem is that they are expensive and some of them still haven't resolved their own s*it let alone yours...
I do like reading books about it though...much cheaper...! But yes, I did find counseling very helpful; I may go after the kids get over chicken pox
-- i'm on an 'as needed' schedule...love
Helen
p.s. I am sorry about your doctor experiences...hopefully you can find one who will LISTEN to YOU about what helps YOU and prescribe it...
I had a horrendous experience with a guy who said in effect "I don't care how great you say this med is, it's not in my book for your diagnosis so I don't prescribe it" [because it is new, so it is not yet written up as proven effective with my specific condition, even though it was from a drug family that is]. What a moron. I only went to him ONCE.
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i use to think therapy was a joke. It didn't help me at all, unitl i opened up and let myself be helped. It took almost a year to make a connection with my therapist, but the benefits from sticking with it have been marvoluos. therapy isn't for everyone, but you should try it, and just like medication - it takes a while to kick in.
J
Johnny Zampon
Guest
daised said:
sit on my face bitch.
seeseerider
New member
Johnny Zampon said:
TAMPON:You need therapy!!!
buddy, it's generalized anxiety for me (or free-floating).
The negative messages you mention were begun about 34 years ago, by my physically and emotionally abusive mother.
I was in Cognitive therapy for a few years and it hlped, but not to where I can go off meds for any serious length of time.
I have also heard that serious stress over a very long period can condition the brain's usage of serotonin. That could explain why a few years of cognitive therapy have not undone over 30 years of negative conditioning.
The negative messages you mention were begun about 34 years ago, by my physically and emotionally abusive mother.
I was in Cognitive therapy for a few years and it hlped, but not to where I can go off meds for any serious length of time.
I have also heard that serious stress over a very long period can condition the brain's usage of serotonin. That could explain why a few years of cognitive therapy have not undone over 30 years of negative conditioning.
Weapon X said:
Weapon all the latest research seems to be showing the brain can relearn...actually physically change, that is...so don't give up trying...maybe some of it can be undone, just as we can make other changes over time, with hard work...well like in our physical fitness
love
helen
Train Harder
New member
I take zoloft and it works well. Seems to make all the little things not bother you as much.
