Another DNP related death

[Juice Authority]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129197

Posted by SHOT at bb.com.

Very sad news.....
Many of you remember i used to be a mod at bloodsweatsteel....


If you remember one of the mods there named JOHN_U then you would know that he was one of the smartest bros i have ever met online....and one big guy...we used to trade alot of pics together about 2 years ago....he was the first person to really talk to me about slin...and how i set up my personal cycles....

Most of his post were really hard to understand because he was so tech. with them. He was a college student...studying something in the chem field.....

Well some of his last post he made on the board were talking about an infection that he had.....then he just stopped posting all together....for awhile the mods at bss tryed to track him down...but had no luck....

Well his roomate just posted on BSS that John had died from DNP....i dont know anymore details other then that....this is a real shocker because i know John knew more about DNP then anyone i know....when i say this bro was a guru he really was...

How this happened i dont know....but his roomate found him in his room last week i guess dead...

this is truely said....i am just in so much shock...i cant believe this....he was such a nice guy...never flammed...always would help anyone no matter how big or small the prob was..

he will be truely missed on the boards thats forsure...

so this post is for my brother...JOHN_U...R.I.P brother...we will miss you...

P.S ...how many more bros are going to have to have really bad side effects or death before we stop useing this shit...

 

[mvmaxxx]

WOW! That's horrible.

I'll pray for him and his family.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I didn't know the guy...but that sucks all the same.

Oh, and this probably shouldn't be turned into one of those, DNP sucks threads...let's keep the focus on the man who passed away.

 

[satchboogie]

that's fucked up.

any pal of juice authority must be a genuine person.

just a reminder of the dangers of DNP.

 

[TroyRoccoco]

sad but true

Thats sad to hear.

R.I.P

 

[OXANDRIN]

there are still more deaths linked to ephedra than dnp

 

[Bulldog_10]

there are still more deaths linked to ephedra than dnp

Alot more people using ephedra though...not the point of the thread.

 

[gilly6993]

prayers to his family and friends

 

[BigE22]

It sucks wwhenever anyone dies that anything to do with AS....or anything related to them....but like I have said before on other boards...why mess with something that has parts of dynomite in it....

 

[satchboogie]

Alot more people using ephedra though...not the point of the thread.

good point bulldog.

 

[DeepZenPill]

I hate to see this kind of news... especially when I'm on 600mg of DNP.

 

[junk]

damn reading the thread made me the chills.. I pray for him.. Damn that DNP shit.

 

[macDbol]

there are still more deaths linked to ephedra than dnp

approx figures of ephedra deaths last year was 22,,compared to asprins 100+ and acetaminaphin's 400+

these figuers were posted in an excellent article i read in the NYT (too bad i cant find it now) regarding that baseball player

 

[Fonz]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129197

Well his roomate just posted on BSS that John had died from DNP....i dont know anymore details other then that....this is a real shocker because i know John knew more about DNP then anyone i know....when i say this bro was a guru he really was...

How this happened i dont know....but his roomate found him in his room last week i guess dead...

I'm truly sorry he passed away, but people generally don't die in locked rooms from DNP...they come out for food, or fresh air

The whole situation just doesn't sound right.

Fonz

 

[macDbol]

may he rest in peace btw.....just goes to show you that we can go anytime whenever the big man calls for us.

 

[John G]

Re: Re: Another DNP related death

I'm truly sorry he passed away, but people generally don't die in locked rooms from DNP...they come out for food, or fresh air

The whole situation just doesn't sound right.

Fonz

He could have been sleeping. It doesn't mention how they knew it was actually dnp though.

 

[psychedout]

Sorry to hear this.

 

[DeepZenPill]

Re: Re: Another DNP related death

I'm truly sorry he passed away, but people generally don't die in locked rooms from DNP...they come out for food, or fresh air

The whole situation just doesn't sound right.

Fonz

I agree, and why would someone's roommate go on their computer and post to a message board about it?

 

[BrothaBill]

C'mon guys, I usually am the first to discard anectodal evidence bout drug dangers, but this shit is fucked. No one should ever take this insecticide, its poison. I remember reading about this in an organic chem class in college before it became popular. I think that new text with that small story helped inspire this. It was about how workers in the nitroglycerin factories of WW1 were extremely thin, they linked it to the byproduct with todays nomenclature as 2,4 dinitrophenol. This is the new way of standardizing the functional groups on a simple organic phenol ring. It denotes the location. This stuff was used as a weightloss drug until sufficient numbers of people died. I must remind you that in the times it was banned that there were no safety advocacy groups out there or trial lawyers wainting to pounce. This was back in the day where people died on the job just to keep the schedule. Obviously when it was banned I believe in the late "30's that it there was alot of reason why. Think about it. Early twentieth century bannning this, it must be pretty bad. This editorial of course, I can discuss the exact damage done and the repercussion of said damage more speciificallly

 

[I2ancid]

I must argue. I have used DNP numerous times (about 15 in 2 years) I simply disagree that DNP is all that dangerous when used under strict controlled conditions. YES this is a tradgedy that someones life was taken at the hands of this substance, however we do not know the circumstances in which he died. Many people who choose to do such a drug probably do other drugs aswell, there is no telling what truly caused this mans death but to solely blame it on a chemical alone isen't fair. It has been used in bodybuilding before and has yielded results that will continue to outweigh the risks.

-J

 

[Bulldog_10]

yielded results that will continue to outweigh the risks.

-J

Come on bro...what benefits could possibly outweigh the risk of death? Getting thin faster?

I really didn't want to get into a seperate discussion on this thread (it should be about the man who passed away) but this just caught my eye.

 

[mvmaxxx]

It has been used in bodybuilding before and has yielded results that will continue to outweigh the risks.

I don't understand how that's possible if one of the risks is "death".

 

[I2ancid]

Name one synthetic biological altering chemical that cannot cause death in humans. The risk of death associated with DNP is not as high as you may think. DNP does not cause spontaneous death but rather influences death by dehydration and other things that can occur even without the drug naturally. Untill an autopsy has been done that reveals the true mechnism involved in his death I will not be convinced DNP is a killer at moderate dosages.

 

[Fonz]

People on EPO tend to die in their sleep alot.

EPO is completely different.

Your blood thickens to the the point your hematocrit(blood viscosity0)reaches 60-70 and you have a heart attack.

You could easily be asleep.


Not so with DNP...you'd be sweating you asss off.

FOnz

 

[BrothaBill]

Name one synthetic biological altering chemical that cannot cause death in humans. The risk of death associated with DNP is not as high as you may think. DNP does not cause spontaneous death but rather influences death by dehydration and other things that can occur even without the drug naturally. Untill an autopsy has been done that reveals the true mechnism involved in his death I will not be convinced DNP is a killer at moderate dosages.

OK, what do you say to that. I encourage your use. I think its stupid, but you should risk it. Take double or triple-= we'll send you the money. Just shut the fuck and die like a weasel. BTW, EPO makes blood cells. too many blood cells sitting around can increase risk of stroke, but I guess that the mechanism or the fact that the studies refer to elerly doesnt much matter to someone that doesnt know how to analyze them

 

[I2ancid]

OK, what do you say to that. I encourage your use. I think its stupid, but you should risk it. Take double or triple-= we'll send you the money. Just shut the fuck and die like a weasel.

What the fuck is your problem? I'm coming here like a mature person giving you information and you come off like a 7 year old idiot. Fucking grow up, if you don't want to use DNP then don't. I bet you've never done 1 cycle of DNP or researched it at all. You're almost as bad as the governments lies about marijuana.

Everyone who knows their shit agree's with me, but people like you, uneducated attention deficit prone children have a tendancy to spout off remarks without knowing what the hell you're talking about. Do you research then come here and talk.

Death is a risk with DNP but so is driving your fucking car.

 

[HULKSTER]

With all of this chem-babble going around, why has no one stated the MOST OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT DETERMINING FACTOR OF DNP SIDE-EFFECTS:

Is the DNP in powdered capsule form, or crystallized form?

This makes a helluva difference!

 

[I2ancid]

Yes crystal DNP is much more potent.

 

[BrothaBill]

What the fuck is your problem? I'm coming here like a mature person giving you information and you come off like a 7 year old idiot. Fucking grow up, if you don't want to use DNP then don't. I bet you've never done 1 cycle of DNP or researched it at all. You're almost as bad as the governments lies about marijuana.

Everyone who knows their shit agree's with me, but people like you, uneducated attention deficit prone children have a tendancy to spout off remarks without knowing what the hell you're talking about. Do you research then come here and talk.

Death is a risk with DNP but so is driving your fucking car.

Ok, prove your case. Let us finally prove in this forum that it is safe. You provide your evidence, then I'll provide mine.We'll let the audience decide who is correct. Please try to use your intellect, Not just b/c you think you are right b/c "DUH IT WORKED for me.". But b/c people read this and make decisions that could cost them their lives. Criticism in these circles is not meant to be personal, but when people stake their lives on our collective experience, then we damn sure better be able to stand up towards scrutiny
Honorably Yours Luciasbrown

 

[I2ancid]

Noone should use DNP. I'm not advocating that anyone use it. All I am saying is make smart choices through knowledge. If you want to use DNP research it yourself don't misinterprete other peoples claims. DNP is not going to kill you anymore than an allergic reaction to acetaminophen (tylenol) will. It seems some people are willing to relieve their muscle soreness and risk death but not lose alot of weight and get ripped for death... Why? Lack of knowledge.

 

[BrothaBill]

With all of this chem-babble going around, why has no one stated the MOST OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT DETERMINING FACTOR OF DNP SIDE-EFFECTS:

Is the DNP in powdered capsule form, or crystallized form?

This makes a helluva difference!

I LOVE HULKSTER, BUT WHERE THE F*** IS g*

 

[JP@Ironology]

 

[SuperbeastC&J]

R.I.P.

 

[BrothaBill]

Noone should use DNP. I'm not advocating that anyone use it. All I am saying is make smart choices through knowledge. If you want to use DNP research it yourself don't misinterprete other peoples claims. DNP is not going to kill you anymore than an allergic reaction to acetaminophen (tylenol) will. It seems some people are willing to relieve their muscle soreness and risk death but not lose alot of weight and get ripped for death... Why? Lack of knowledge.

Lack of knowledge, I agree and thats why I ripped on a righteous bro such as yourself. Alot of people read our banterings and think they know the subject. I know you know more than me about the subject, but that doesnt dissuade our duty to challenge information out there. We should do moreof this, and yes it was a mistake, in hindsight to use the language that I did., but unless we take the duty to challenge with critical thinking the knowledge out there, then those people who read this are doomed to the same problem that we face.

 

[Fonz]

With all of this chem-babble going around, why has no one stated the MOST OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT DETERMINING FACTOR OF DNP SIDE-EFFECTS:

Is the DNP in powdered capsule form, or crystallized form?

This makes a helluva difference!

Crystal DNP = Powdered DNP + Baking Soda + Water + Dry it.

Voila...you have crystal DNP.

Classs dismissed you troglodytes.

Fonz

 

[I2ancid]

I get your point lucaious.

fonz, are you sure freebasing powder dnp is really crystal dnp? I thought the process involved mercury. Is it simply text-book crystalization for purity with a solvent?

 

[BrothaBill]

I get your point lucaious.

fonz, are you sure freebasing powder dnp is really crystal dnp? I thought the process involved mercury. Is it simply text-book crystalization for purity with a solvent?

GREEN KARMA BRO

 

[HULKSTER]

Crystal DNP = Powdered DNP + Baking Soda + Water + Dry it.

Voila...you have crystal DNP.

Classs dismissed you troglodytes.

Fonz

Crystallized DNP has proven, WITHOUT A DOUBT, to be more toxic, as well as has resulted in many more DNP deaths than the powdered form of DNP.....once again, REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE trumps shit printed in chem-study reports.

We should get Citruscide in on this one.

By the way, Fonz, the process of converting cocaine to crack is quite similar to converting powder DNP into crystallized DNP. Would you disagree that crack is more toxic and lethal than coke?
As with cocaine converted into crack, the crystallized DNP is made from cocaine by a method that makes it much more potent, and subsequently more toxic, than powdered DNP. It's all about the delivery system.

-----freebasing is a fucker---

 

[Fonz]

Crystallized DNP has proven, WITHOUT A DOUBT, to be more toxic, as well as has resulted in many more DNP deaths than the powdered form of DNP.....once again, REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE trumps shit printed in chem-study reports.

We should get Citruscide in on this one.

By the way, Fonz, the process of converting cocaine to crack is quite similar to converting powder DNP into crystallized DNP. Would you disagree that crack is more toxic and lethal than coke?
As with cocaine converted into crack, the crystallized DNP is made from cocaine by a method that makes it much more potent, and subsequently more toxic, than powdered DNP. It's all about the delivery system.

-----freebasing is a fucker---

Again, you have no clue.

Adding Baking Soda to the DNP makes the PH of the stomach much les acidic, so therefore the DNP enters the stomach faster.

Its excatly the same theory for taking baking soda in the AM(28g), and taking all your pills in the AM. the Baking Soda buffers all the stomach acids making the intestines less acidic and therfore the compound can enter at a faster speed, and less of the parent compound is destroyed.

Even Potassium Citrate can be used for this purpose...and is even better than baking soda.(AS PC is a buffering agent as well)

PC(Potassium Citrate) + Powder DNP + water + heat lamp Dry it = SUPER CRYSTAL DNP.

Fonz

 

[HULKSTER]

Again, you have no clue.

Adding Baking Soda to the DNP makes the PH of the stomach much les acidic, so therefore the DNP enters the stomach faster.

Its excatly the same theory for taking baking soda in the AM(28g), and taking all your pills in the AM. the Baking Soda buffers all the stomach acids making the intestines less acidic and therfore the compound can enter at a faster speed, and less of the parent compound is destroyed.

Even Potassium Citrate can be used for this purpose...and is even better than baking soda.(AS PC is a buffering agent as well)

PC(Potassium Citrate) + Powder DNP + water + heat lamp Dry it = SUPER CRYSTAL DNP.

Fonz

How long did it take for you to copy and paste that? LOL

 

[Fonz]

How long did it take for you to copy and paste that? LOL

Its called a superior intelligence man.

Fonz

 

[SwitchedOn]

I've done more than my share of DNP cycles within the last couple years and without a doubt it works, and works well when used responsibly. I believe whoever is researching the use of DNP can find enough info to use it as responsibly as possible given the circumstances we live under (legality, public stigmatism, health risks). However NOONE can say that they will be healthy 20 years from now after doing a few cycles of DNP. I did hours upon hours of research into DNP, used it, and was satisfied with the results. And although I have yet to develop any health problems that may be DNP related that's not to say I never will.
I have a wife and 2 young girls to support and I often wonder about the "wisdom" of using DNP- especially if it indirectly causes my life to end even just a year prematurely. Fuck that shit, I want to spend as much time with my family and do my best to provide for them for as long as I can.
Although I believe I won't kill myself if I use DNP another few times I won't risk the chance it may lead me to a shorter life, or the possibility of developing cancer. I'd rather diet a few more weeks to get the results I'd obtain from DNP.
Sorry to hear about the loss of a good bro. RIP John_U

 

[Austrian]

some of his last post he made on the board were talking about an infection that he had

this is more likely to be the real cause; many heart attacks are preceded by flu-like illnesses. Athletes are easy victims to death after benign infection because they do not allow their bodies (esp their heart) to fully recover. Of course, DNP elevates your resting metabolism and it could well have been a contributor to his death but simple excercise has the same effect; there was a case of an amateur soccer player in the media here who came down with the flu but was forced to take part in an important match by his team - he died on the playing field; he had heart inflammation caused by the flu virus ...

 

[HULKSTER]

Its called a superior intelligence man.

Fonz

If you were so intelligent, then you would realize the difference between intelligence and knowledge. Spewing out facts that you derived from reading a book is not indicative of intelligence. Intelligence is mostly genetic, so no matter how much you strive for a "superior" education, your level of intelligence is pretty much dictated to you by the time you were born. BTW, I received a 1390 on my SATs, does that mean I'm intelligent? No. It just means I have a strong command of mathematics and the English language.


But if you want to create your own version of the English language and state that the word intelligence will now be in the same category as knowledge, go right ahead. Based on that logic, my intelligence is FAR superior to yours, since I double-majored in History and Biology in college. Currently, I am a LPN. And I'm sure as hell that I have more knowledge about history and biology than you do-----but is that an indication of intelligence? Nope. Just means I am more educated than you in the fields of history and biology/physiology.

 

[Nelson Montana]

It's amazing that a post about someones death can become a pissing match with posturing about ones superior intelligence.

Un-fucking believable. I'm staying out of that one.

Anyway, there was a post about 6 months ago with a similar story. It was about 6 months prior to that were someone else had died and each time there were words of regret and remorse.

This is the problem. And this is why I have the perspective that I do. I was a child of the 60's. I grew up with all the sensationalism and misinformation about drug use, mainly pot. Because the rhetoric was so off base, we (those of us between 15 and 20) all assumed the powers that be didn't know what they were talking about. If they were wrong about pot, they were probably wrong about everything else. I had friends who could explain the process of how the chemistry of the brain was affected by a certain drug better than any chemistry professor. And with that knowledge came an arrogence. They knew more. They could control it. Bad things only happen to stupid people -- to the "other" guy.

Needless to say, many of those friends are no longer here. They died long before their lives had a chance to accomplish something meaningful. The coroners report listed the deaths as "drug overdose", but I disagree. What they really died from was denial.


Every time something like this happens I think back to what Dan Duchaine said to me not long before he died. He said; "Just because the medical establishment was mistaken about certain aspects of steroids, didn't mean they were mistaken about everything. That's where we went wrong."

Dan was a genius, and even he was wrong about a lot of things. Still, that was the past. We know more now. We learned from his mistakes. He didn't have the informaton we have now. It could never happen again.


See you in 6 months.

 

[HULKSTER]

It's amazing that a post about someones death can become a pissing match with posturing about ones superior intelligence.

Un-fucking believable. I'm staying out of that one.

First of all, if you read the posts, it's OBVIOUS that Fonz started launching numerous insults towards me based on his arrogant ego coming out to play on the EF playground.

And if I recall, Nelson, you and Fonz have had some pretty nasty flame wars on EF yourselves.

 

[Nelson Montana]

First of all, if you read the posts, it's OBVIOUS that Fonz started launching numerous insults towards me based on his arrogant ego coming out to play on the EF playground.

And if I recall, Nelson, you and Fonz have had some pretty nasty flame wars on EF yourselves.

................

Wasn't blaming you bro. I know Fonz started it. He is obviously void of class and engorged with ego. The fact that the argument was taking place on this thread was in especially bad taste. It's like fighting at a funeral.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I didn't know the guy...but that sucks all the same.

Oh, and this probably shouldn't be turned into one of those, DNP sucks threads...let's keep the focus on the man who passed away.

 

[AAP]

I hope no one really died.... but I have a hard time believing that a "well known and respected DNP guru" would have fucked up.

Also, with drugs involved... what roommate would jump on the computer and post his death online? I wouldn't. How would this roommate know what site he was a mod at?

I dont' know... I keep thinking something is not being told here. Maybe we are missing something. Maybe there were other things involved we don't know about.

A terrible loss anyway.

 

[Fonz]

I dont' know... I keep thinking something is not being told here. Maybe we are missing something. Maybe there were other things involved we don't know about.

As usual, AAP puts it in clear and concise words. Re: the actual meaning of the original scenario.


To hulkster and NM...just give up. Maybe in 40 years....then maybe.

Fonz.

 

[Rio 2001]

I´m sorry that someone died , but I don´t feel we have to limit ourselves to condolences.
I think this is directly related to us bbuiders being prone to push the limits. I see often people doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to build mass/cut fat,and this just blows me away.
If you can remember a few years ago no one would even talk about serious side effects, it was taboo and anybody discussing that would be considered " persona non grata" . Acne, gyno, baldness, were OK, but anything harder than that and whoa...If someone died everybody would say he was a great guy, etc... but no one would discuss the fact that maybe some guys are paying the ultimate price .We are evolving from that point of deniability, and I think getting more sensate and well educated, and maybe one day bbuiding will be about building your best body within the limits of good health and for the sake of it, instead of building your biggest body whatever it takes.
We have to take a moment and reflect when something like this tragedy happens.
I´ll pray for the guy and for the ones that loved him and are suffering this terrible loss.

 

[HULKSTER]

As usual, AAP puts it in clear and concise words. Re: the actual meaning of the original scenario.


To hulkster and NM...just give up. Maybe in 40 years....then maybe.

Fonz.

I know what he's saying. And I assumed from the beginning that something wasn't "right". Quite possibly, this Mod who supposedly died from using DNP, WAS ACTUALLY SELLING DNP, summarily got busted by the DEA or whoever, and is now being used as a personal Fed-bitch to reel in more victims for possible controlled-deliveries.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I know what he's saying. And I assumed from the beginning that something wasn't "right". Quite possibly, this Mod who supposedly died from using DNP, WAS ACTUALLY SELLING DNP, summarily got busted by the DEA or whoever, and is now being used as a personal Fed-bitch to reel in more victims for possible controlled-deliveries.

Again with the feds...

 

[Juice Authority]

I know what he's saying. And I assumed from the beginning that something wasn't "right". Quite possibly, this Mod who supposedly died from using DNP, WAS ACTUALLY SELLING DNP, summarily got busted by the DEA or whoever, and is now being used as a personal Fed-bitch to reel in more victims for possible controlled-deliveries.

Everything is a big conspiracy to you. I personally don't think the story was made up or I wouldn't have posted it. SHOT is well-known on other boards and has a good rep. I don't see why he would make something like this up. For what purpose?

Nelson, give it a rest Bro. I think the people around here have had enough of your opinions for the next millennium.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Fonz: Fogive me for trying to bring a grave situation its proper attention. What was I thinking?


JA: We all know you're nothing but an annoying insect but must you even shit on your own thread?

Mods, isn't this what the "new" policy was about preventing?

 

[sk*]

Its called a superior intelligence man.

Fonz

I wasn't gonna post on this thread, but your cockiness has no bounds. Just cause you like chemistry it doesn't make you intelligent.

I am just gonna assume you were making a joke.

Later.

-sk

 

[JibbyJabba]

Classs dismissed you troglodytes .

Fonz

Why don't we give that word a rest?

 

[Juice Authority]

Fonz: Fogive me for trying to bring a grave situation its proper attention. What was I thinking?


JA: We all know you're nothing but an annoying insect but must you even shit on your own thread?

Mods, isn't this what the "new" policy was about preventing?

I'm just tired of your continual ranting, raving, lecturing, whining, insulting rhetoric that constantly spews out of your mouth or in this case from your fingertips to the computer screen. Don't you ever get sick of your own bullshit? I know I do and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion. Plus, Fonz knows more about AAS, training, dieting and supplements than your sub 80 IQ would ever comprehend.

 

[Fonz]

I wasn't gonna post on this thread, but your cockiness has no bounds. Just cause you like chemistry it doesn't make you intelligent.

I am just gonna assume you were making a joke.

Later.

-sk

Its commonly referred to as sarcasm.

Besides, I love to rip on HUlkster...he sees fed conspiracies everywhere.

Reminds me of Mel Gibsons Conspiracy theory movie...lol

Fonz

 

[HULKSTER]

Everything is a big conspiracy to you. I personally don't think the story was made up or I wouldn't have posted it. SHOT is well-known on other boards and has a good rep. I don't see why he would make something like this up. For what purpose?

Nelson, give it a rest Bro. I think the people around here have had enough of your opinions for the next millennium.

If that Mod did die from a DNP overdose, how was someone able to get that Mod's password, log onto that now-dead Mod's email account, and subsequently send an email to this other person informing him of the Mod's death.....I smell bullshit.

And the reason why I say this is because I was informed that is how this person was first contacted about the death of the Mod.

The story about this DNP "guru" 's roommate finding him dead, and then immediately posting it on BSS, was bullshit. And I was sent an email from another well-known member of that board who told me so----and I've never heard from this person before in my life. So now I have to wonder, why the hell did THAT PERSON feel compelled to email me out of the blue, and tell me that? Would a respected member of that board ruin his reputation by starting a sick rumour? I think not.

 

[Fonz]

Fonz: Fogive me for trying to bring a grave situation its proper attention. What was I thinking?


JA: We all know you're nothing but an annoying insect but must you even shit on your own thread?

Mods, isn't this what the "new" policy was about preventing?

What do you expect us to do?

SHow some kind of compassion?

How do we do that..?

Firstly, We did not know the guy.

Secondly, as a DNP "Guru" he was an idiot for letting the substance he knew so much about take his own life.

Thirdly, what the hell is the roomate doing writing about the supposed Guru's mishap on the computer?

Do you even think of all these tangential avenues of thought or do you simply commit to total brain death and decide that there is nothing more to the whole story.

Seriously Nelson, for a writer, you do not posses good abstract logic.

Fonz

 

[Juice Authority]

If that Mod did die from a DNP overdose, how was someone able to get that Mod's password, log onto that now-dead Mod's email account, and subsequently send an email to this other person informing him of the Mod's death.....I smell bullshit.

And the reason why I say this is because I was informed that is how this person was first contacted about the death of the Mod.

The story about this DNP "guru" 's roommate finding him dead, and then immediately posting it on BSS, was bullshit. And I was sent an email from another well-known member of that board who told me so----and I've never heard from this person before in my life. So now I have to wonder, why the hell did THAT PERSON feel compelled to email me out of the blue, and tell me that? Would a respected member of that board ruin his reputation by starting a sick rumour? I think not.

Wow! That's amazing that you put so much time into reasoning this out. Maybe it's BS maybe it's not. Who knows and who really cares anyway? The topic of DNP is by itself controversial as to the inherent risks associated from using it. Since I've never used DNP before and have very little knowledge about it's benefits/detriments I thought the post about someone dieing from it might stir up a good discussion. It was headed that way until Nelson popped in and once again took us off course but what else can we expect from him? He's got to promote that book of his somehow.

 

[bwood]

sorry guys...

this one smells fishy...

 

[Nelson Montana]

Fonz: If you suspect that the post is a fake, fine. Blame JA, not me. I was simply relating to the information at hand. It isn't that inconprehensible. If you used your sense of superior intellect, you'd realize that.

I'm not going to repond to Juice Authority, but I have a question for him...

Will you remind everyone here, once again, of all your accomplishments in the field of bodybuilding? Feel free to mention any contributions at all -- articles, reports, research, insights -- anything that was peer reviewed or recieved the endorsment of any notable person in the field. You can also mention any contests you've entered. Tell of your experiences with various drugs. Tell us all the years of study and experience you have. Perhaps a picture of yourself? In this way everyone on the board can see first hand why your rants have merit.

I thought so.

My point is this: You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to like me. But to follow me around in a constent attempt to harrass me is not only obnoxious, it's justifaction for removal from the board.

EF Sam? Am I wrong here?

 

[powerforward]

you guys will argue about anything.
lets debate something for once without getting into the personal attacks.

 

[sk*]

Fonz: If you suspect that the post is a fake, fine. Blame JA, not me. I was simply relating to the information at hand. It isn't that inconprehensible. If you used your sense of superior intellect, you'd realize that.

I'm not going to repond to Juice Authority, but I have a question for him...

Will you remind everyone here, once again, of all your accomplishments in the field of bodybuilding? Feel free to mention any contributions at all -- articles, reports, research, insights -- anything that was peer reviewed or recieved the endorsment of any notable person in the field. You can also mention any contests you've entered. Tell of your experiences with various drugs. Tell us all the years of study and experience you have. Perhaps a picture of yourself? In this way everyone on the board can see first hand why your rants have merit.

I thought so.

My point is this: You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to like me. But to follow me around in a constent attempt to harrass me is not only obnoxious, it's justifaction for removal from the board.

EF Sam? Am I wrong here?

Now you just sound hypocritical. While I don't know JA's backround nor do I care, I do know that just because you are "famous" doesn't make you knowledgable. Just cause you have gotten to speak with Dan Ducahine doesn't mean we all have to sit around a camp fire and believe everything you say without questioning it. You have countless times put down people that have a "better" background than you in anabolics, such as Bill Roberts. What if he asked you to put down the number of "awards" both of you won and the one with the most wins? It sounds incredibly childish to me, and this isn't the first time you have asked people to believe what you are saying just based on your "anabolic experience."

-sk

 

[Juice Authority]

My point is this: You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to like me. But to follow me around in a constent attempt to harrass me is not only obnoxious, it's justifaction for removal from the board.

EF Sam? Am I wrong here?

Justification for removal from the board??? Why, because I've pointed out the flaws in some your theories or disagreed with you and you got offended? Actually most of them aren't even at the stage where they can be classified as a theory. It's more an opinion with nothing in the form of evidence or proof to back it up. Oh, and follow you around? Ha! Are you delusional? Who's thread are YOU posting on moron? God, you have such an inflated and distorted sense of self-worth and knowledge it's actually amusing and sad. The word that comes to my mind when I think of Nelson Montana is Charlatan. There's a 50 cent word for you Nelson. Go look that one up!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Now you just sound hypocritical. While I don't know JA's backround nor do I care, I do know that just because you are "famous" doesn't make you knowledgable. Just cause you have gotten to speak with Dan Ducahine doesn't mean we all have to sit around a camp fire and believe everything you say without questioning it. You have countless times put down people that have a "better" background than you in anabolics, such as Bill Roberts. What if he asked you to put down the number of "awards" both of you won and the one with the most wins? It sounds incredibly childish to me, and this isn't the first time you have asked people to believe what you are saying just based on your "anabolic experience."

-sk

.......................

Whoa! You're way off base here bro. Wrong call.

This has nothing to do fame . And if I have an issue with someone and challange them, I'll back up what I have to say. That's very different from simply antagonizing someone for the sake of antagonizing.

I'm just trying to avoid every thread I enter from degrading into a purile argument. It happens way too often on this board and it doesn't just happen to me.

I also know some people resent the fact that I promote my book on the site, but I never do so in my threads. Incidentally, those book sales help keep the site going, so yes, I believe when someone continually tries to degrade me and my work, it's bad for the site. It's bad for George's business. And it utimately hurts all the members of the board.

Once again, feel free to disagree, agrue or challange. But stalking and harrassing should not be permitted.

 

[Frackal]

I'm amazed people use DNP

 

[Zyglamail]

I'm amazed people use DNP

Im amazed people smoke, it kills nearly half a million people a year. What also amazes me is that something that is clearly addictive and distructive is allowed to be 100% legal and accepted while steroid users get hunted down and prosecuted.

 

[Antti]

DNP is not going to kill you anymore than an allergic reaction to acetaminophen (tylenol) will.

Show me some evidence of this, and your personal or all your buddies experiences will not do. Real Scientific Evidence, or else you'll sound like a youngster who has tried cannabis and because he didn't get serious harms he now says it's harmless

 

[serge]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129197

Posted by SHOT at bb.com.

Very sad news.....
Many of you remember i used to be a mod at bloodsweatsteel....


If you remember one of the mods there named JOHN_U then you would know that he was one of the smartest bros i have ever met online....and one big guy...we used to trade alot of pics together about 2 years ago....he was the first person to really talk to me about slin...and how i set up my personal cycles....

Most of his post were really hard to understand because he was so tech. with them. He was a college student...studying something in the chem field.....

Well some of his last post he made on the board were talking about an infection that he had.....then he just stopped posting all together....for awhile the mods at bss tryed to track him down...but had no luck....

Well his roomate just posted on BSS that John had died from DNP....i dont know anymore details other then that....this is a real shocker because i know John knew more about DNP then anyone i know....when i say this bro was a guru he really was...

How this happened i dont know....but his roomate found him in his room last week i guess dead...

this is truely said....i am just in so much shock...i cant believe this....he was such a nice guy...never flammed...always would help anyone no matter how big or small the prob was..

he will be truely missed on the boards thats forsure...

so this post is for my brother...JOHN_U...R.I.P brother...we will miss you...

P.S ...how many more bros are going to have to have really bad side effects or death before we stop useing this shit...

sorry for your friend bro, but sometimes even the smartest bros will take high risks for whatever reason; on the same note i beleave dnp is safe if used correctly

 

[Antti]

Re: Re: Another DNP related death

on the same note i beleave dnp is safe if used correctly

Where do you base this belief of yours?

 

[Zyglamail]

Show me some evidence of this, and your personal or all your buddies experiences will not do. Real Scientific Evidence, or else you'll sound like a youngster who has tried cannabis and because he didn't get serious harms he now says it's harmless

I dont have the reports in front of me but if I remember correctly there is something like 140,000 elderly in emergency rooms and hospitals yearly due to problems with OTC pain relivers such as ibuprofin etc so just nbecause good old uncle sam says something can be purchased OTC doesnt mean its safe.

 

[bigAragorn]

Show me some evidence of this, and your personal or all your buddies experiences will not do. Real Scientific Evidence, or else you'll sound like a youngster who has tried cannabis and because he didn't get serious harms he now says it's harmless

when are you gonna get serious harms directly induced by the smoking of marijuana

 

[Antti]

when are you gonna get serious harms directly induced by the smoking of marijuana

I said: because he didn't get any serious harms, he now says it's HARMLESS.

NOT SERIOUS HARMS is not equal to HARMLESS

 

[halfaclue]

Show me some evidence of this, and your personal or all your buddies experiences will not do. Real Scientific Evidence, or else you'll sound like a youngster who has tried cannabis and because he didn't get serious harms he now says it's harmless

This is soooo not the place for this debate but people really need to get a clue. Any doctors on this site can back me up because it is factual information that is available on www.fedstats.gov so look it up and let this issue go.... Anyone who says DNP use is dumb because it has pesticides better not by their produce from a grocery store because the Government decides how much pesticides are OK for you to ingest so the farmers can cut costs. Every person on the board ingests more harmful pesticides in a month of fresh fruit and veggies then I do in a week cycle of DNP. Anyone who smokes 5 cigarettes in a week ingests more poison then I do in a week of DNP. It is a business...if DNP could be mass produced and legislated and maintained with a level of safety to avoid law suit it would be legal. Ephedrine is legal, but business are baking out because people are dying...does that mean that last year when every one was talking about their ECA stack that they are dumb for taking the risk? Steroids aren't legal because the business isn't worth the risks. People on this board may know alot of people that use gear but it is a very small portion of the population. Fen Fen had more serious side effects then the DNP studies but it was released to the public because it had a larger financial supporter. Everyone has a right to say they wouldn't use DNP just like people say they would never use a gram a week of test or more. But why insult people who have different views. I'm not dumb or not cautious or I believe fat loss is more important then life. I feel my use is safe, and I feel it is just as safe as have the crap people buy of the internet. You'll buy gear from an underground lab that could be run by terrorists groups who put anthrax in the bottles...you going to stop using gear? If you want to bitch and moan just to bitch and moan go to volunteer at an old folks home, they will join in and go to town with you. NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO PROOVE DNP IS SAFE....it will never happen...no one will ever be able to say Tylenol is safe....the point is the risk of death by Tylenol is out weighed by the money that it brings in for the government. Pot will be legal...Write this down and hold me to it. They are working on ways to control its potency and then all those people who said it was so dangerous can suck a phatty because Uncle Sam gave it approval. I can sit here all day and throw out what-ifs. If you don't want to use DNP, then don't, if there is a thread about it and you never have tried it then don't chime in. There are 576243863045602942 threads on this site and DNP bashers who have never tried it always seem to pitch in two cents about something they know nothing about. What do you want ANTTI, a doctorial thesis? It is dangerous stuff when abused, so is alcohol, driving fast in your car, not wearing a seat belt, sky diving. When I first joined this board it was awesome, now you find all these ass clowns who ruin thread after thread. This started as RIP for a lost Bro and people used it to hop on their ignorant soap box. IF YOU DON'T LIKE DNP..DON'T USE IT...simple enough?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Whenever people say something is bad, people just pick other things and say they're worse. People say steroids are bad, other people say tobacco is worse...people say DNP is bad, other people say tylenol is worse...

Let's be real here for a second...DNP is worse than any of them...it's just that fewer people use it. Yes, tylenol kills people sometimes, but there are billions of people using it. Smoking kills people, but after decades and decades of use...it doesn't have the potential to kill someone within a day like DNP does. Alcohol can kill you in a second, but it's easy to educate people on responsible use.

My theory on why some things are legal, and some are illegal all comes down to education. It's easy to tell people, don't drink and drive or you could die...don't smoke or you cold die earlier.

It's alot harder to educate people about responsible use of something like DNP and AAS. It takes a long time to figure out how to use that stuff safely, and alot of people would probably still fuck it up.

 

[Antti]

What do you want ANTTI, a doctorial thesis? It is dangerous stuff when abused, so is alcohol, driving fast in your car, not wearing a seat belt, sky diving.

Please don't jump on the walls. Are the recommendations of dosage based on some scientific evidence? That is what I want to know. Do we know what is abusing and what is not? Do we know the real consequences of using DNP? I think these are important questions, you might not.

When I first joined this board it was awesome, now you find all these ass clowns who ruin thread after thread. This started as RIP for a lost Bro and people used it to hop on their ignorant soap box. IF YOU DON'T LIKE DNP..DON'T USE IT...simple enough?

There is a reason I don't like DNP and will not use it but I think it isn't in any way related to an "ass clowns" behavior if I want to have my questions answered. If you can answer, please do. These are important things we are talking about because even if there is a slight possibility for example that the recommendations are off base there are lives depending on it.

 

[Zyglamail]

My theory on why some things are legal, and some are illegal all comes down to education. It's easy to tell people, don't drink and drive or you could die...don't smoke or you cold die earlier.

I dont buy that for a second, the legality of items have nothing to do with education. They have been preaching alcohol and tabacco are bad for years upon years and it deters very few. You can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink, the people who want to know about AAS learn about AAS and those that dont simply get shoveled a load of overexagerated bullshit and they buy into it because they could care less about.

The legality of things is more because our government needs to justify its existance and they do so by going after things that offer little or no opposition coupled with the fact it means no money in their pockets. Alcohol/tabacco puts far too many $$$$ in uncle sams pocket and would simply have too much opposition for it to be further regulated. AAS use on the other hand is easu to pick on because sports bodies want it controlled and the average citizen could care less about it so that just leaves the small percentage of the population to speak out against it and in a government so mired down in beaurocratic bullshit, even if the 1,000,000 estimated AAS users gathered and marched on the capital we would be laughed at, ridiculed and blown off.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I dont buy that for a second, the legality of items have nothing to do with education. They have been preaching alcohol and tabacco are bad for years upon years and it deters very few. You can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink, the people who want to know about AAS learn about AAS and those that dont simply get shoveled a load of overexagerated bullshit and they buy into it because they could care less about.

The legality of things is more because our government needs to justify its existance and they do so by going after things that offer little or no opposition coupled with the fact it means no money in their pockets. Alcohol/tabacco puts far too many $$$$ in uncle sams pocket and would simply have too much opposition for it to be further regulated. AAS use on the other hand is easu to pick on because sports bodies want it controlled and the average citizen could care less about it so that just leaves the small percentage of the population to speak out against it and in a government so mired down in beaurocratic bullshit, even if the 1,000,000 estimated AAS users gathered and marched on the capital we would be laughed at, ridiculed and blown off.

You make good points, and I don't know why they are truly illegal, while other things remain legal...I'm just theorizing here...I don't have an inside source or anything.

But one thing that is different between AAS and alcohol and tobacco is that we know all the risks of tobacco and alcohol use, I sitll believe that we don't know all the possible risks of AAS, and DNP comes into play here as well.

When someone drinks and drives, they can say "I told you so," and they can do the same when someone gets cancer after years of smoking...but what happens when someone uses DNP responsibly and gets fucked? That's when people make a beef about it, and it is made illegal. That's probably what happened when it was first made illegal...and there was never much of a push to make it legal again...

And since no one thinks they can do anything about it anyway, no one is ever going to make the push for it to be legalized. If you believe we know all the risks, and it can be used safely...talk to people, you CAN get things done...If you have a group of doctors willing to back you up and say "it can be used safely, and here's how," people will get behind you. And you don't need alot of people, just the right people. If you can pursuade a well known legislator that there is a reason why change should be made, things can happen. You can't just think you're outnumbered and you can't do anything about it.

 

[halfaclue]

Whenever people say something is bad, people just pick other things and say they're worse. People say steroids are bad, other people say tobacco is worse...people say DNP is bad, other people say tylenol is worse...

Let's be real here for a second...DNP is worse than any of them...it's just that fewer people use it. Yes, tylenol kills people sometimes, but there are billions of people using it. Smoking kills people, but after decades and decades of use...it doesn't have the potential to kill someone within a day like DNP does. Alcohol can kill you in a second, but it's easy to educate people on responsible use.

My theory on why some things are legal, and some are illegal all comes down to education. It's easy to tell people, don't drink and drive or you could die...don't smoke or you cold die earlier.

It's alot harder to educate people about responsible use of something like DNP and AAS. It takes a long time to figure out how to use that stuff safely, and alot of people would probably still fuck it up.

Bulldog..there are very few times I agree with you but this is one of them Bro. My point wasn't that there are a ton of things worse then DNP, even though there are, but that people are not educated on the topic and spout of like a pms-ing little girl. You said alcohol can kill you in day and so Can DNP...how do you think people realized binge drinking was bad??? It wasn't from an opinion poll...people died. DNP is the same way, the government could get some pharmaceutical company to procduce 50mg pills and recommend the dosage does not exceed 6 pills but does that mean people will use it responsibly? ECA is legal...almost every bottle says not to exceed 65-75mgs of ephadrine for a day(depending on the amount that is in each pill). people post on this board they take that much at one sitting. If people think thermorexin is working awesome and decide to take 15 pills a day then thermo rexin is extremely dangerous...Ulter and Mac do great jobs with the warning but they haven't mentioned what taking 15 pills would do so i guess if I really want to lose weight faster I can take 15 pills without a problem? That is a legal product here in the US that people using it (like myself) have a very very limited education on. We assume because it is legal then it must be safer then DNP (yes I know it is) but the point being is other then someone who works with or for AF, no one really knows or is that educated as to what can happen to you from thermorexin. There is a risk involved that maybe your first dose will cause an alregic reaction and people say that the risk is worth it because they want to burn fat....are all those people stupid for risking their lives with a product they know so little about? I don't think so. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WARN PEOPLE...someone somewhere will fuck it up and die from it and ruin it for everyone else. Like that jackass major league baseball player who had 300mgs of ephadrine in his system at one time...that is not counting what was digested. That shit gets stuffed banned. How many peopl know that taking 300mg of ephadrine could kill you???

 

[Bulldog_10]

Bulldog..there are very few times I agree with you but this is one of them Bro. My point wasn't that there are a ton of things worse then DNP, even though there are, but that people are not educated on the topic and spout of like a pms-ing little girl. You said alcohol can kill you in day and so Can DNP...how do you think people realized binge drinking was bad??? It wasn't from an opinion poll...people died. DNP is the same way, the government could get some pharmaceutical company to procduce 50mg pills and recommend the dosage does not exceed 6 pills but does that mean people will use it responsibly? ECA is legal...almost every bottle says not to exceed 65-75mgs of ephadrine for a day(depending on the amount that is in each pill). people post on this board they take that much at one sitting. If people think thermorexin is working awesome and decide to take 15 pills a day then thermo rexin is extremely dangerous...Ulter and Mac do great jobs with the warning but they haven't mentioned what taking 15 pills would do so i guess if I really want to lose weight faster I can take 15 pills without a problem? That is a legal product here in the US that people using it (like myself) have a very very limited education on. We assume because it is legal then it must be safer then DNP (yes I know it is) but the point being is other then someone who works with or for AF, no one really knows or is that educated as to what can happen to you from thermorexin. There is a risk involved that maybe your first dose will cause an alregic reaction and people say that the risk is worth it because they want to burn fat....are all those people stupid for risking their lives with a product they know so little about? I don't think so. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WARN PEOPLE...someone somewhere will fuck it up and die from it and ruin it for everyone else. Like that jackass major league baseball player who had 300mgs of ephadrine in his system at one time...that is not counting what was digested. That shit gets stuffed banned. How many peopl know that taking 300mg of ephadrine could kill you???

But the thing is, they know enough to say: "this dose is safe, this dose is not safe" with the stuff you are talking about. And obviously allergic reactions are a risk with anything, that's up to the individual to figure out, it's not a danger with the product.

With DNP and AAS not enough research has been done to say, this dose is safe for everyone, and this dose is unsafe for everyone. That is why I believe they are still illegal.

I may not be right, that's just what I think.

And yes, there are always morons who will abuse anything you throw at them, but the difference comes when an intelligent person can be harmed when using the drug responsibly...which can happen with DNP.

And I agree with you about people who don't know enough about it "PMS-ing" about it.

 

[Antti]

But the thing is, they know enough to say: "this dose is safe, this dose is not safe" with the stuff you are talking about

With DNP and AAS not enough research has been done to say, this dose is safe for everyone, and this dose is unsafe for everyone.

My point is exactly that. We don't really know whether if you use DNP according to the recommendations you'll be safe.

 

[smokinghawk]

Not sure what to make of all this. I've used it before, and LOVED the stuff. Also found quite a lot of published medline research supporting its safety. Yet I also acknowledge that it is a substance that can be abused to dangerous ends.

I suspect that some people just try to push too far, either in dosage or in accompanying lifestyle. Others fail to develop proper advanced knowledge.

I'm not sure whast the argument is here, though, since we ALL agree the stuff is potentially dangerous. I guess we all disagree on the extent: some see it as insane in any dose, and others (like me) understand its potential dangers but have no fear with proper dosage.

 

[Antti]

I guess we all disagree on the extent: some see it as insane in any dose, and others (like me) understand its potential dangers but have no fear with proper dosage.

Do you claim to know the proper dosage and what do you base your knowledge on? And please tell me your idea of a proper dosage?

 

[halfaclue]

My point is exactly that. We don't really know whether if you use DNP according to the recommendations you'll be safe.

This isn't to be a dick, but what is the recommended dosage for smoking cigarettes so that they are safe? What about drinking alcohol? Seriously I know both of your points and they are valid and much more appreciated then people calling me an idiot because I choose to use DNP.....but how does one use alcohol safely? How about my great state of NY .04 BAC is operating a motor vehicle safely on alcohol. What if you are 120lbs 5' itialin who just turned 21 and had his first shot and a beer. Your legally allowed to drive your car and if you crashed into someone and killed them it would just be an accident? ?? That is not safely...no one can say how to drink safely..it is widely accepted but if you really think about it you can not put a value on alcohol safety.

 

[Antti]

This isn't to be a dick, but what is the recommended dosage for smoking cigarettes so that they are safe? What about drinking alcohol? Seriously I know both of your points and they are valid and much more appreciated then people calling me an idiot because I choose to use DNP.....but how does one use alcohol safely? How about my great state of NY .04 BAC is operating a motor vehicle safely on alcohol. What if you are 120lbs 5' itialin who just turned 21 and had his first shot and a beer. Your legally allowed to drive your car and if you crashed into someone and killed them it would just be an accident? ?? That is not safely...no one can say how to drink safely..it is widely accepted but if you really think about it you can not put a value on alcohol safety.

Yes, you do have a point. One thing that also must be taken into consideration is that alcohol has been used so much that we can to a degree take the experimental evidence into consideration.

 

[I2ancid]

Show me some evidence of this, and your personal or all your buddies experiences will not do. Real Scientific Evidence, or else you'll sound like a youngster who has tried cannabis and because he didn't get serious harms he now says it's harmless

Hah, ok antti:

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/214fe2.htm

"Acetaminophen poisoning is one of the most common types of poisoning and is placing an enormous financial burden on hospitals, particularly as these patients are traditionally managed in intensive care units.

Acetaminophen is an effective and safe painkiller. However, if taken in excess it can be fatal. Taking an acetaminophen overdose overwhelms the liver's ability to process the drug. The excess acetaminophen is then processed into toxic chemicals, which can kill liver cells. If enough cells are killed the patient can die from liver failure. "

Oh wow! It's legal aswell! I bet your parents have a years supply of the shit in their medicine cabinet too. Ok well this is the last time I'm argueing anything about DNP, i'm a humble person, you guys can believe what you want, just be smart.

-J

 

[I2ancid]

Whenever people say something is bad, people just pick other things and say they're worse. People say steroids are bad, other people say tobacco is worse...people say DNP is bad, other people say tylenol is worse...

Let's be real here for a second...DNP is worse than any of them...it's just that fewer people use it. Yes, tylenol kills people sometimes, but there are billions of people using it. Smoking kills people, but after decades and decades of use...it doesn't have the potential to kill someone within a day like DNP does. Alcohol can kill you in a second, but it's easy to educate people on responsible use.

My theory on why some things are legal, and some are illegal all comes down to education. It's easy to tell people, don't drink and drive or you could die...don't smoke or you cold die earlier.

It's alot harder to educate people about responsible use of something like DNP and AAS. It takes a long time to figure out how to use that stuff safely, and alot of people would probably still fuck it up.

Bulldog, you're right, though alot of people have used DNP aswell, it doesen't kill the majority of them. I've only heard of 1 confirmed DNP death EVER. This last one may or may not be true, I'm not one to decide but I can gaurentee you there were other factors involved in his death, just like complications with other medicine.

However I do understand that the boards would be held responsible if everyone here advocated the use of DNP and someone died so with that said. DO NOT USE DNP, EVER.

 

[bwood]

i have seen no evidence that humans
are more susceptable to anaphalactic
shock from dnp than from any other drug...

it is dangerous as the LD50 is not far removed
from the effective dose and it is purported to
have an acumulative effect in the body that can
bite the uninformed who insist on pushing the envelope...

it is not mutagenic according to the ames test, but
i have read articles citing increased cell senescene...

what worries me, aside from the free radical shitstorm(which may be mitigated), is the possibility of permanent mitochondrial damage/loss...

are you as ever as "ATP fit" as you were pre-dnp?

does cellular metabolism return to baseline or
is it permanently, albeit tiny, altered for the worse???

 

[Antti]

Hah, ok antti:

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/214fe2.htm

"Acetaminophen poisoning is one of the most common types of poisoning and is placing an enormous financial burden on hospitals, particularly as these patients are traditionally managed in intensive care units.

Acetaminophen is an effective and safe painkiller. However, if taken in excess it can be fatal. Taking an acetaminophen overdose overwhelms the liver's ability to process the drug. The excess acetaminophen is then processed into toxic chemicals, which can kill liver cells. If enough cells are killed the patient can die from liver failure. "

Oh wow! It's legal aswell! I bet your parents have a years supply of the shit in their medicine cabinet too. Ok well this is the last time I'm argueing anything about DNP, i'm a humble person, you guys can believe what you want, just be smart.

-J

Ok. My point is that we know what is excess use in Acetaminophen, but do you claim to know what is excessive in the use of DNP? Do you have any scientific proof of that? That's my point.

 

[HULKSTER]

i have seen no evidence that humans
are more susceptable to anaphalactic
shock from dnp than from any other drug...

it is dangerous as the LD50 is not far removed
from the effective dose and it is purported to
have an acumulative effect in the body that can
bite the uninformed who insist on pushing the envelope...

it is not mutagenic according to the ames test, but
i have read articles citing increased cell senescene...

what worries me, aside from the free radical shitstorm(which may be mitigated), is the possibility of permanent mitochondrial damage/loss...

are you as ever as "ATP fit" as you were pre-dnp?

does cellular metabolism return to baseline or
is it permanently, albeit tiny, altered for the worse???

You should try to post on the Anabolic Board more often. Your knowledge is quite profound.

 

[halfaclue]

Ok. My point is that we know what is excess use in Acetaminophen, but do you claim to know what is excessive in the use of DNP? Do you have any scientific proof of that? That's my point.

Well I have never heard or read of anyone dying from 250mgs a day so lets say that is a safe doasge. From here on out I decree DNP is safe at 250MGS a day and this is not to be exceeded without the risk of severe cell mutation or death! Now people can use it safely and if anyone goes over that amount they are abusing it and are responsible for the consequences. I'll stick with my 500Mgs but I am a renegade!!!!!

 

[bigAragorn]

i have seen no evidence that humans
are more susceptable to anaphalactic
shock from dnp than from any other drug...

it is dangerous as the LD50 is not far removed
from the effective dose and it is purported to
have an acumulative effect in the body that can
bite the uninformed who insist on pushing the envelope...

it is not mutagenic according to the ames test, but
i have read articles citing increased cell senescene...

what worries me, aside from the free radical shitstorm(which may be mitigated), is the possibility of permanent mitochondrial damage/loss...

are you as ever as "ATP fit" as you were pre-dnp?

does cellular metabolism return to baseline or
is it permanently, albeit tiny, altered for the worse???

tell us what YOU think

 

[HULKSTER]

Bottom line is, people need to stop focusing on the name of the drug, and focus on the potency and quantity of the drug ingested by a user. There are people who have used coke for decades, and have not died yet, because the quantity wasn't enough to kill them. However, there are people who have died from using Tylenol, because they overdosed on it. Thus, it's not so much a matter of the drug itself, but the quantity of that drug that is ingested. To say DNP in itself is deadly is not accurate, to say that you can die from overdosing on DNP IS VERY ACCURATE! Just like you can die from overdosing on Tylenol, coke, inhaling glue, acid, etc.

 

[bigAragorn]

id say a drug is deadly when its critical dose and effective dose are so close together in scale.

 

[I2ancid]

Bottom line is, people need to stop focusing on the name of the drug, and focus on the potency and quantity of the drug ingested by a user. There are people who have used coke for decades, and have not died yet, because the quantity wasn't enough to kill them. However, there are people who have died from using Tylenol, because they overdosed on it. Thus, it's not so much a matter of the drug itself, but the quantity of that drug that is ingested. To say DNP in itself is deadly is not accurate, to say that you can die from overdosing on DNP IS VERY ACCURATE! Just like you can die from overdosing on Tylenol, coke, inhaling glue, acid, etc.

Exactly hulkster!

 

[bwood]

tell us what YOU think

that is the problem...

uninformed deductions are excessively subject to
bias...

three possibilities exist both long and short term...

no long term change:likely? based on the body's tendancy to
maintain homeostasis, possible...purely guesswork...

perm damage/loss:likely? based on cell senescene
theory, possible, but were mitochondria affected as well? they are basically an alien organism incorporated into our cells as a symbiote, what does dnp actually do to them, is cell senescene related to some other unknown factor???

positive change: likely? anabolic rebound effect, is this a result
of mitrochondrial rebound or other metabolic/endocrine processes??? short term only??? how do we know???

dnp is dangerous, so is vancomyacin(sp?), that does not
mean it is unusable...

for the morbidly obese, is it more dangerous than gastric
bypass??? i dont THINK so, if administered by doc knowing
what he is doing...

for the bodybuilder??? this is dependant on individual philosophies as to whether it is proper...dont delude yourself, nothing is safe, steroids are not safe per se, you take a chance everytime you inject of introducing a foreign organism into your body that could kill or sicken you...

 

[bigAragorn]

so in other words the more you look into it (as with anything) the less ( as in you are asking more questions than providing answers ) we know about it.

Agreed.

So it comes down to how bad do you wanna lose the weight and in what period of time.