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Ann Coulter

How do you feel about Ann Coulter

  • She knows what she is talking about

    Votes: 5 45.5%
  • She is an intelligent person, but she should calm down the attacks

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • She is reallly ignorant, but has a few good points

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • She is nuttier than bat shit

    Votes: 5 45.5%

  • Total voters
    11

Lao Tzu

New member
Has anyone read 'slander' yet? jesus, she is nuts. How can anyone be that blanketly hypocritical?

What did everyone think. I think she is waaaaaay beyond the reach of logic or reason. If you go to amazon.com, many of the 1 & 2 star reviews are conservatives who don't want a loud mouth, abusive, illogical fanatic being seen as their spokesperson.
 
nordstrom said:
Has anyone read 'slander' yet? jesus, she is nuts. How can anyone be that blanketly hypocritical?

What did everyone think. I think she is waaaaaay beyond the reach of logic or reason. If you go to amazon.com, many of the 1 & 2 star reviews are conservatives who don't want a loud mouth, abusive, illogical fanatic being seen as their spokesperson.

I have been a fan of hers for years. Although I have always liked her as a staunch, outspoken, intelligent conservative, who happens to be an attractive woman, lately she seems to crave the spotlight too much. She also is kinda tight with Geraldo and that bothers me.
 
I just finished the book, I'm sure to liberals she would be considered hypocritical b/c she is basically calling them on their shit so to speak...and as far as her being beyond logic or reason, she knows her facts and uses them well, she has 35 pages worth of footnotes at the end of the book, so she's done her research to back up her claims.
 
I think she is one of the best debaters on the talk show circuit, because she is capable of articulating her position well and to call out shit when it is presented. So many on the left are claiming that she is mean and vicious, but I like her style. I am tired of hearing the same horseshit replies by leftists and the right not calling it out as retarded; she is not afraid to do this. Hannity is a fucking sap when it comes to making a valid argument, she should replace his dumb ass.

I hate her die hard Republican stance.
 
PinK233 said:
I just finished the book, I'm sure to liberals she would be considered hypocritical b/c she is basically calling them on their shit so to speak...and as far as her being beyond logic or reason, she knows her facts and uses them well, she has 35 pages worth of footnotes at the end of the book, so she's done her research to back up her claims.

She is hypocritical because she is abusive, hypocritical & elitist in her efforts to show her political enemies to be abusive, hypocritical & elitist. Anyone who writes a book titled 'slander' so she can verbally abuse her enemies is either really out of touch with reality or really fanatical.

http://www.anncoulter.blogspot.com/

And ttlpkg, i agree. When she was on Politically Incorrect she appeared to be logical and controlled. But this book was just a tirade from an angry abusive elitist.
 
i just realized that link i posted is run by a democrat, i was under the impression it was an independent fed up with the lies & slander of ann coulter. Damn.


Anyway, the woman accuses liberals of supporting Muslim extremists. She is a sick, evil callous woman. What if i said conservatives wanted to create a new nazi party so they could kill all the jews? how would you feel about my party if people who had the same political views as me took a statement like that at face value?
 
nordstrom said:

Anyway, the woman accuses liberals of supporting Muslim extremists. She is a sick, evil callous woman.

I can't see how any of her statements can be extrapolated into the idea of her being a "sick, evil callous woman". She is just very boistrous in her arguments, but she backs them up well, from the times I have watched her.

I am personally tired of watching debates where people present pathetic arguments and are not called out for it. I would kill to host a talk show...or would that be "I WOULD be killed"?!?! Nonetheless, I wish idiots would be called out for retarded arguments, Democrat or Republican.

What if i said conservatives wanted to create a new nazi party so they could kill all the jews?

That wouldn't be a stretch from reality. How do you think the word Fascist has been used in the current vernacular? You and I even had this discussion, where you correlated the idea of fascism with conservatism.

how would you feel about my party if people who had the same political views as me took a statement like that at face value?

No different than I already do of the Democratic Party. I guess you forgot how Democrat campaigns have correlated the dragging death of James Byrd to governor Bush's refusal to support the Hate Crime Bill?
 
Ann Coulter is a babe with a brain! That is so rare these days, and its quite a refreshing change from the Hillary Clinton idiots. I just bought her book and can't wait to start reading it.
 
Is this the Republican woman I saw interviewed on "Hannity & Combes" a while back? The one that wrote a book about the lies that Democrats tell about Republicans?
 
casavant said:
Is this the Republican woman I saw interviewed on "Hannity & Combes" a while back? The one that wrote a book about the lies that Democrats tell about Republicans?


That's her!
 
Prometheus said:



it's good to see someone refrain from ad hominem hyperbole and argue a position with dignity and respect.


If you don't like it don't read it. I don't like being accused of supporting terrorism because i dont have the same opinions on taxes as Rush Limbaugh.
 
cockdezl said:


1. I can't see how any of her statements can be extrapolated into the idea of her being a "sick, evil callous woman". She is just very boistrous in her arguments, but she backs them up well, from the times I have watched her.

2. I am personally tired of watching debates where people present pathetic arguments and are not called out for it. I would kill to host a talk show...or would that be "I WOULD be killed"?!?! Nonetheless, I wish idiots would be called out for retarded arguments, Democrat or Republican.

3.That wouldn't be a stretch from reality. How do you think the word Fascist has been used in the current vernacular? You and I even had this discussion, where you correlated the idea of fascism with conservatism.

4. No different than I already do of the Democratic Party. I guess you forgot how Democrat campaigns have correlated the dragging death of James Byrd to governor Bush's refusal to support the Hate Crime Bill?

1. I am referring to how she tries to equate democrats with muslim fanatical terrorists using misquotes. Aside from that she is just annoying.

3. Wrong. I said that conservatives appear to have more black/white ideas of the world, which leads to a stronger desire to find enemies than liberals do. If you can prove i said anything else (which you can't) feel free. I was talking about the desire for scapegoats/enemies due to an absolutist outlook, not fascism.

4. I never said i wasn't biased. Democrats do it too. When i wrote my first post i remembered Jesse Jackson calling the religious right the 'new nazis', but what if people took a statement like that at face value instead of dismissed him as a hate mongering partisan mouthpiece?

I'm tired of your abuse & lies. I need someone else to argue with.
 
I'm becoming too partisan for my own good. I should stick to reading/debating over non-emotional conservatives like Safire, Elder & O'Reilly.

on pages 4 & 5 she accuses liberals of being terrorist sympathizers (based on what she says in ch. 4, in her eyes, anyone who isn't a conservative by her standards is a liberal, and she accuses liberals of being pro-terrorist. Hence the Rush Limbaugh/taxes/terrorism thing. Refusal to support conservative position X makes you a liberal, and liberals support/condone terrorism).

I had written an entire post arguing against that when i realized that i had actually done several of the things she accuses liberals of doing (condemning flag wavers, disliking american policy). Damn
 
the problem is that there is an inverse relationship between the complexity of analysis and the desire of the majority of people to read/watch it.

hence we have quick checklist labels like "conservative" and "liberal" to classify ignorant voters based on their kneejerk reactions to simple arguments. these groupings are meaningless and inconsistent (liberal: pro-civil liberties while pro-big goverment and socialist measures; conservative: anti-abortion while pro-bombing of Iraqi civilians and state-administered death penalty, etc.)

There are good arguments to be made all over the political spectrum. One-sided presentations of social issues are almost always completely incorrect. It takes patience and empathy to be able to see the merit in multiple conflicting points of view - most don't have that.
 
nordstrom said:


1. I am referring to how she tries to equate democrats with muslim fanatical terrorists using misquotes. Aside from that she is just annoying.

I have not read her book, and probably will not. I do not agree with the above assertion, if that is what she said. What she should have stated was that liberals are more often "sympathizers".

3. Wrong. I said that conservatives appear to have more black/white ideas of the world, which leads to a stronger desire to find enemies than liberals do. If you can prove i said anything else (which you can't) feel free. I was talking about the desire for scapegoats/enemies due to an absolutist outlook, not fascism.

nope. The nazis were conservatives. There were the conservative Nazis, the middle ground Social Democrats and the Leftist communist party in germany in the early 1930s. They were patriotic, xenophobic, anti-communist, pro family values, anti-womens rights and anti-gay, at the very least, i'm sure there are more examples of common political ground (not to equate naziism with modern day conservativism, just to show that the nazis were a right wing political philosophy).

You did NOT say in this quote that Conservatives are Fascist, but you did try to correlate their platforms.

4. I never said i wasn't biased. Democrats do it too. When i wrote my first post i remembered Jesse Jackson calling the religious right the 'new nazis', but what if people took a statement like that at face value instead of dismissed him as a hate mongering partisan mouthpiece?

But what you are not stating is that MANY do believe these statements. If Jackson had only made this statement once, then yes I agree that many would disregard it, but propaganda is most effective through repetition. Conservatives have heard their views being equated to Fascism, separatism, Theocracy, racism, etc. many, many times.

It is no different than the idea that the Bush adminstration is pushing, claiming that those who are not supporting him are supporting terrorists, or that doing drugs supports terrorists. If you repeat it enough it becomes 'truth'.

I'm tired of your abuse & lies. I need someone else to argue with.

????? I am sorry, I had no idea that debates were so emotionally draining on you. I will see if RYAN can just hold you for awhile.
 
cockdezl said:


1. I have not read her book, and probably will not. I do not agree with the above assertion, if that is what she said. What she should have stated was that liberals are more often "sympathizers".

2. nope. The nazis were conservatives. There were the conservative Nazis, the middle ground Social Democrats and the Leftist communist party in germany in the early 1930s. They were patriotic, xenophobic, anti-communist, pro family values, anti-womens rights and anti-gay, at the very least, i'm sure there are more examples of common political ground (not to equate naziism with modern day conservativism, just to show that the nazis were a right wing political philosophy).

You did NOT say in this quote that Conservatives are Fascist, but you did try to correlate their platforms.

3. But what you are not stating is that MANY do believe these statements. If Jackson had only made this statement once, then yes I agree that many would disregard it, but propaganda is most effective through repetition. Conservatives have heard their views being equated to Fascism, separatism, Theocracy, racism, etc. many, many times.

4. It is no different than the idea that the Bush adminstration is pushing, claiming that those who are not supporting him are supporting terrorists, or that doing drugs supports terrorists. If you repeat it enough it becomes 'truth'.

5. ????? I am sorry, I had no idea that debates were so emotionally draining on you. I will see if RYAN can just hold you for awhile.


Apparently you can't put a moderator on your ignore list. And i have no self control, so the beat goes on.

1.

2. The entire thread can be found here

http://boards.elitefitness.com/foru...tive+Nazis+the+middle+ground+Social+Democrats

The thread was titled 'blaming liberals' in which i attempted to address conservative's attempts to blame liberals for all their problems, and made equations (while overtly attempting to avoid appearing slanderous) between today's conservative scapegoaters with yesteryears conservative scapegoaters.

your statement, which i replied to was this

You can remove the reference of 'jews' from the above statement, since this was the National Socialist Party (Nazi's), which is not even close to American conservative philosophy, but more alligned with Socialism.

my response was

nope. The nazis were conservatives. There were the conservative Nazis, the middle ground Social Democrats and the Leftist communist party in germany in the early 1930s. They were patriotic, xenophobic, anti-communist, pro family values, anti-womens rights and anti-gay, at the very least, i'm sure there are more examples of common political ground (not to equate naziism with modern day conservativism, just to show that the nazis were a right wing political philosophy).


This was an attempt to show that the Nazis were a politically conservative and not a politically leftist group (as you claimed) by showing a long list of conservative ideals they had. And you wonder why i accuse you of lying & misappropriation.

I've said alot of stupid, knee jerk angry radical things on elite but this isn't one of them.

3. You are right. I saw the NAACP commercial about james byrd.

4. Actually propaganda is effective by giving the illusion of 2 sides to a story and letting the viewer decide for himself.

5. Thats ok, i'll just ask your sister to use her other hand.
 
Last edited:
nordstrom said:

nope. The nazis were conservatives. There were the conservative Nazis, the middle ground Social Democrats and the Leftist communist party in germany in the early 1930s. They were patriotic, xenophobic, anti-communist, pro family values, anti-womens rights and anti-gay, at the very least, i'm sure there are more examples of common political ground (not to equate naziism with modern day conservativism, just to show that the nazis were a right wing political philosophy).

This was an attempt to show that the Nazis were a politically conservative and not a politically leftist group (as you claimed) by showing a long list of conservative ideals they had. And you wonder why i accuse you of lying & misappropriation.

The Surprising Roots of Facism
By Arnold Beichman

A. James Gregor

The Two Faces of Janus: Marxism and Facism in the Twentieth Century

Janus was the Roman god after whom January is named. He was considered the guardian deity of gates and doors and is usually shown as two-faced, since doors face both ways. But there is only a single body to this deity. Berkeley Professor A. James Gregor, in his superbly researched book, has presumably selected Janus to symbolize the twinning of the two ideologies that have so scarred the twentieth century.

Gregor has undertaken a difficult task in his attempt to deal with these two ideologies. I say difficult because while the ultimate consequences of Marxism were dreadful, there was at least a large collection of patristic writings, accessible and debatable, even intellectually respectable. Because Marxism provides a self-styled scientific socio-political analysis as well as a gallimaufry of beliefs and insights, it appealed to intellectuals and, alas, still does.

Not so with fascism, a name derived from the Latin, "fasces," a bundle of sticks, carried by judicial officers in Roman processions as an emblem of authority. (Hitler, of course, had his own emblem — the swastika — and his followers referred to themselves as Nazis, short for National Socialism.) Fascism had its theoreticians, and a distressing number of serious thinkers, the philosopher Martin Heidegger first among them, lent their support. But fascism in actual fact it had no intellectual basis at all, nor did its founders even pretend to have any.

Hitler’s ravings in Mein Kampf, Giovanni Gentile’s hortatory article in the Italian Encyclopedia, Mussolini’s boastful balcony speeches, all of these can be described, in the words of Roger Scruton, as "an amalgam of disparate conceptions." It is about this "amalgam" that Professor Henry Ashby Turner Jr. has written:

Anyone who reads many studies of fascism as a multinational problem cannot but be struck by the frequency with which writers who begin by assuming they are dealing with a unitary phenomenon end up with several more-or-less discrete sub-categories. Regardless of what criteria are applied, it seems very difficult to keep fascism from fragmenting.

In spite of this, there has been a general reluctance to consider what must be regarded as a definite possibility: namely, that fascism as a generic concept has no validity and is without value for serious analytical purposes. . . . The generic term fascism is in origin neither analytical nor descriptive.

That such strictures have significance can be seen in Professor Gregor’s confirming remark about the Russian extremist politician, Vladimir Zhirinovsky: "In what sense Zhirinovsky is a fascist is difficult to say with any intellectual conviction."

Yet Gregor is right to ignore the Turner finding, for one important reason: "Fascism" still has meaning in democratic societies. For a recent illustration of this, consider the fracas over Austria’s Jörg Haidar. Labeling somebody you don’t like a "fascist" is still a popular polemical sport: Call someone a communist and proof is demanded and even when proof is supplied there is the risk that you will be called a red-baiter; call someone a fascist, that’s enough to convict. In the lexicon of the left, there is nothing lower than a "red-baiter" but there is no such thing as a "fascist-baiter." We’ve all heard about "communist hysteria," especially during the Joe McCarthy years, but there is no such phenomenon as "fascist hysteria." The name-calling got a little ridiculous when during the Sino-Soviet split, the Kremlin and Beijing called each other fascist.

Having combed their literature, Professor Gregor has shown beyond a shadow of doubt the affinities, too long ignored, between fascism and Marxism-Leninism. (It was Don Luigi Sturzo who provided the reductio ad absurdum: Fascism was black communism and communism was red fascism.) Richard Pipes has written that "Bolshevism and fascism were heresies of socialism."

Recalling that Mussolini began his political career as a distinguished Italian socialist, Gregor writes: "Fascism’s most direct ideological inspiration came from the collateral influence of Italy’s most radical ‘subversives’ — the Marxists of revolutionary syndicalism."

Even Nikolai Bukharin, the leading Soviet ideologist whom Stalin purged, began to have misgivings about the Revolution and began to allude to the fascist features of the emerging system. Gregor writes:

By the early 1930s, the ‘convergence’ of fascism and Stalinism struck Marxists and non-Marxists alike. . . . By the mid-1930s, even Trotsky could insist that ‘Stalinism and fascism, in spite of deep difference in social foundations, are symmetrical phenomena’ . . . .

Fascist theoreticians pointed out that the organization of Soviet society, with its inculcation of an ethic of military obedience, self-sacrifice and heroism, totalitarian regulation of public life, party-dominant hierarchical stratification all under the dominance of the inerrant state, corresponded in form to the requirements of Fascist doctrine.

Left liberals have frantically denied the "Janus" notion that Marxism-Leninism and fascism have a common origin. With scholarly skill and an enormous amount of reading has Professor Gregor made such denials as dated as the Communist Manifesto.


I've said alot of stupid, knee jerk angry radical things on elite but this isn't one of them.

You were saying?
 
fascism - a nationalistic, authoritarian, anti-communist movement founded by Benito Mussolini in Italy in 1919. Fascism was a response to the economic hardship and social disorder that ensued after the end of World War I. The main elements of fascism were pride in the nation, anti-Marxism, the complete rejection of parliamentary democracy, the cultivation of military virtues, strong government, and loyalty to a strong leader. Fascists wore a uniform of a black shirt and and used a greeting derived from ancient Rome of the outstretched arm. Mussolini's Black Shirts (as they were known) seized power in 1922. A movement modeled on fascism, Germany's National Socialism (Nazism) also began its rise in the 1920s. In 1936 in Spain, General Francisco Franco's fascists seized power and precipitated a three-year civil war, with Franco victorious. Italian fascism collapsed with the death of Mussolini and the end of World War II. Although since then there have been South American military regimes that have adopted some of the terminology and concepts of fascism, fascism in its classic form is considered to have died with Mussolini. Sometimes the term is used now as a term of abuse, triggered by any real or imagined outbreak of authoritarian thought or behavior.

and

http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/world/lectures/fascism.html

European fascism, then, was a political response of the European bourgeoisie to the economic recession after 1918, or more directly tot he political fear caused by that recession. So, above all, it was anti-communist. This anti-communism was one oft he few things that made it international. Other than that and its social base, it was heterogeneous and varied widely from country to country. There were two basic reasons for this heterogeneity. One is historical; the other is structural.

You're not the only one who can cut'n'post websites.

And i fail to see your point. On social & nationalistic levels, the fascists were conservative in nature. Name some fascists with socially liberal policies. I never saw Mussolini taking a picture with the NAACP.
 
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