all you americans

[WONDERBUNN]

I'm sure every american wants to support our troops. If DU is exposing our troops with radiation, we should get rid of it, period.

My uncle got fucked over by the governement. He fought in Viet Nam, had tons of agent orange dumped on him. What did get in return?? A slow agonizing death. It turns out that a chemical in agent orange, benzine, causes cancer. The military Doctors attributed the Leukemia directly to agent orange exposure. The worse part is he isn't the only one. their are many.

And our government still does shit like this, exposure to chemicals, radiation not caring for the long term consequence of the soldiers. I've been to VFW meetings and i'm amazed that there are so many WW2 vets still kickin around, in their 80's full of piss and vinegar. I think it has something to do with them not drowning in toxic shit. In an ideal world the government should take care of its troops. But sometimes this is not the case.

And last lets call a spade a spade.

If we are suppose to me liberating a people, why would we expose them to radiation?? Isn't that couter productive??

The only reason we really give a shit about Iraq or the middle east is OIL. That being said, i'm starting to think it may be a better idea to make Iraq a parking lot. and keep all the oil for ourselves. Make it the 51st state "nicknamed the concete state."

 

[wnt2bBeast]

...that supported the war, or bush, or the bullshit that has been spun, or did at some stage support/believe in any of it, i was wondering, what do you guys think about the use of depleted uranium throughout iraq?

i mean, sorry to be that annoying jimmy the cricket voice (with an aussie accent) and bring up those things that some people here like to forget (like you know, weapons of mass destruction, osama bin laden, the association between osama and saddam that wasnt, the association between 911 and iraq that wasnt, the UN not sanctioning the war, the head of the iraq weapons inspectors "committing suicide"...how convenient..., americans calling questioners unpatriotic, freedom fries, "shock and awe" killing thousands of cowering iraqis in their homes, military protection of the oil ministry but no other ministry, abu ghraib, guatanamo bay, all those "enemy combatants" held without trial, bush winning the second election by 1%...how convenient...during the first election where electronic voting machines are used and are not subject to public scrutiny...how convenient....where evidence of vote manipulation was rife....anyway, all those things that a right thinking person would think would lead pretty instantly to impeachment and imprisonment, but apart from all that, what i want to talk about today is...

...depleted uranium. i mean, given that the world is scared shitless of terrorists detonating a "dirty bomb" in some western city, and given that its just after the 60th anniversary of atomic weapons being dropped in hiroshima/nagasaki, im curious to know what all you people who accept the war think about your military sprinkling hundreds of tonnes of depleted uranium throughout iraq, which in itself is a weapon of mass destruction, poisoning the land, air, water, people of iraq (who are giving birth to nicely deformed children as we speak, and suffering ungodly rates of previously insignificant cancers - side effects that are shared by the very soldiers using the ammunition, which is rather at odds with the "support the troops" idiots who think that public sympathy/empathy for soldiers is what is needed, rather than withdrawal from an immoral, unneccessary war (though that particular phrase has lost its poignancy through sheer repetition)

so come on. would all the pro-war, pro-"democracy", pro-"shut up GD you fucking foreigner", pro-"here is freedom, so shut up and put on your veil" people, who are so noisy in other threads, like to post their opinions on the costs, benefits, and morality of using such weapons in the context of the iraq and afghan wars?

...or will your shame, and silence, let this thread sink to the bottom of the site, until a thread comes up where its suitable for you to chime in, en masse, and type in slogans and "pwned" while you backslap each other on how wonderful you are

hm?

by the way, australia is up to its neck in iraq and afghanistan at the moment, so keep it civil...comerades

Frome America

with no Love

 

[GoldenDelicious]

75th: before you say anything, shush. getting to it. ()

Its not my sensitivity that I'm concerned with. It was merely an example of how your remarks were the perfect demonstration of low class. Obviously, my analogy went right over your self-absorbed head.

no, my remarks were not. i freely admitted that my remarks were designed to reciprocate the feelings of indignation and irritation i myself experienced when medicj acted out of line. if that response was my natural reply, then i might agree with you, but in this case, it was simply something done by design to press a button. and so your analogy did not go over my wonderful head, its just that i chose to ignore it because it was not pertinent

I did limit my analogy to the context of the discussion. See my comment above. Yes, death and mayhem happen every day. Unlike you, I do not go out of my way to taunt the victims and family members of those victims with the calculus of death and mayhem. Perhaps you should read your own signature and live by those words, but then again, I'm not your shrink.

not only arent you my shrink, but you arent a shrink at all. which fits in with your 'analyses'.

furthermore, i did not 'taunt' anyone with death and mayhem, since a better example of that would be, say, to say that i hoped someone died etc. what i did do was use something in her personal history to add an edge to an otherwise fair enough remark, though i didnt think that the knee jerk pro american respone you get around here would extend to defending someone from something that didnt happen. i hate to break it to you, but talking about injury isnt taboo, nor is it taunting.

The things that you type on this forum tell me everything that I need to know about you. Meeting you in person could change that, but I doubt that it would. You enjoy kicking people when they are down. That's not an accusation, but an observation based on your rants here. That says a lot about you, and the life that you choose to live. It says that you are pathetic.

not bad for someone that isnt a shrink! well, not really. what i tap into this forum is FAR from what you need to know about me, since most of what i type here is flippant, and is designed to entertain. furthermore, i do not enjoy kicking people while theyre down - could you give me an example of where i have done that? or are you implying that my constant highlighting of the shortfalls in US policy equate to kicking people while they are down, since you realise that im right about your president, your administration, and your war?

if you cant see that im the sort to go toe to toe against someone, rather than kick them while theyre down, then what can i say...your perception is a tad askew

Again, my simple statement obviously went over the top of your flat head. You regularly and consistantly degrade the men and women who have, and still do, protect your rights and freedoms, regardless of whatever country you live in. Try talking your BS to an Aussie SAS trooper, if you have the nuts to. I know what would happen, as I trained extensively with them in 1994 and 1995. Your ass would be in a sling. You know it, and I know it. Knowing this, you bring your whining ass here, where you can easily hide behind a keyboard and anonymity of the 'net.

really? like the ones who were hospitalised in the veterans hospital i worked in, who were calling george bush a fucking useless cunt, who was starting shit that he didnt have to fight, that he was a bought and paid for man, that he should be shot to avoid the upcoming war? you mean, THOSE sas troops?

whether or not western military personell of today are fighting for my 'rights' and 'freedoms' depend on your political slant. if you believe all that bullshit george bush said, then sure, theyre fighting for my freedom. personally though, i think theyre fighting for a lie, in a failing ploy designed to line the pockets of various american industrialists.

You taunt the families of the dead and wounded because .......? Maybe you get off on it, and are jerking off to medicj's emotional responses to your out of line comments. Maybe it makes you feel like a man, when you obviously have no testicles of your own. Then again, perhaps you are a true psychopath, and wounding people emotionally just makes you feel normal. The truth of the matter is that I don't know, and really don't care, aside the pain that you cause to others.

when do i taunt the families of the dead? when do i jerk off to the response to my comments? in the very post i made to medicj that started it all i said that the administration of teh day is 'misusing worthy and noble people, like your partner' - how is that in any way derogatory? she was innapropriate, i replied in a calculated way, and it achieved the desired effect.

correllating anonymous comments on an anonymous board with manhood is stupid, as is your statement that i clearly have no testicles. that is ridiculous, though i am a reasonable guy - my testicles are available for inspection by any good looking family members you might have and also, i do not enjoy hurting people emotionally - sure, i can enjoy the exchange of dialogue/insults/scat pictures with like minded people (eg 75th, who admitted to me in a PM that he just clowning around, and that he actually agrees that george bush is a bit of a wanker, and that he thinks that i am a funny guy) (well ok im lying ) but in the case of the mental defectives on this site, i jump in for a quick tweak and out again. if i were a psychopath, let me assure you, my statements would be a good deal more cutting than they are.

You label Americans, with a broad brushstroke, as stupid, idiotic, totalitarian, and bloodthirsty. However, your posts show you closer to the ideology that you profess to hate, rather than above the fray, as you would like us to believe.

when i talk about 'americans' generally im speaking of your administration and those who strongly agree with their policies. however, i do not label them as bloodthirsty, rather i think that their perception is severely skewed to their own point of view - ie an american hero soldier dying is a great loss, while a mother dying in her home with her 5 children from a misdropped bomb is collateral damage. nor do i think americans are totalitarian - rather the opposite. i think that they are all about free trade and capitalism, under the condition that they come out on top (which was evidenced by the recent bid for china to buy an mid sized US oil company...free trade? someone tell taht to the senators freaking out that the chinese might actually USE some of teh dollars they have earned over the past 2 decades )

My point was, and still is, that you have no right to talk smack about men and women in uniform unless you have filled their shoes in harm's way, period. Now, I imagine that I can see the lightbulb, albeit a dim one, coming on in your head right now. Then again, that may be too much to hope for.

yes, i know what your point is, and again, i say that my having 'filled those shoes' is irrellevent. the only thing that counts is the weight of my argument. thats all that EVER counts. would you disregard the opinion of someone who was right about something simply because they had not done it before? its taht sort of blind faith that allows atrocities like the war on terror to be committed in your name. critical analysis is the best thing taht could happen to a country.

oh and in case you didnt notice - i dont talk smack about service members - only about the people who misuse their patriotism by sending them across the world, to kill and to die, for nothing.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

And thus continues the eternal saga of the average looking 75th mercilessly defeating the extremely handsome goldendelicious.

Pardon me whilst I take a deep breath......

yeah well this 'defeating' business is taking an eternity. props to you for hammering at it though keep trying bor and dont be too hard on yourself for being average. its not your fault

Lets take this point-by point:

yes lets. even though you left some of my points out

WMDs: We dont even have to go over this one too much. Shitty excuse for a shitty war. Whether or not they exist, however, is still up in the air (believe it or not).

now hang on, why should we gloss over this one? you dont just gloss over one of the biggest whoppers ever told in modern day media warfare, just because its old news. people died because of this wepons of mass destruction bullshit. it was an example of your administration fixing the 'facts' around their preconceived policy. that in itself is enough to end the argument right here - its absolute moral bankruptcy for Gods sake! its a slap in the face of the weapons inspectors who were sent around looking form something that didnt exist - for the sodliers dying while protecting the poele looking for them - for the politicians who werent in on the scam, who were frantically trying to justify their governemtns postion - for the families torn apart by distance, while their loved ones went to do their pointless duty - for the ameican taxpayers at home, who lost funding for schools, health, research, and other things taht were actually constructive in bettering their lives, and the iraqis, suffocated by sanctions, who lost dignity while a farce was perpetrated in their faces as a leadup to invasion.

dont bloody gloss over this one, 75. heads whould have rolled for this. (oh wait. they did. innocent ones, and not metaphorically, either)

bin Laden: What about him? The fact that his global network he spent over a decade building has been, for the most part, completely ruined?

completely ruined? you mean like the hydra, which sprouted 3 heads when you cut one off? a few years ago al quaida was one extremist group on the other side of the world, with a couple of fanatics patrolling the mountains with an ak47, and a scattering of tents with goat shit sprinkled around them. these days there is al-quaida, al-quaida in iraq, al-quaida in pakistan.....as well as another few hundred jihadi organisations taht sympathise with them and operate similarly. bin ladens network isnt torn apart or ruined - its stronger. after all, bush et al have given them thousands of new recruits in the form of dispossessed/vengeful iraqis, have validated the previous assertions of bin laden as per americas evil intent, have gifted tehm with wonderful live fire training camps in the form of, oh, every iraqi city, and they have exulted osama bin laden to a position where he rivals george bush in fame. torn apart? please, that shit is blowing up in everyones face. (pun intended )

The fact that since Bush has been in office, there has been only 1 attack against the US, whereas under Clinton there were a dozen? Im not sure exactly what you want to discuss, so be more specific.

oh, you mean that there has only been one terrorist attack on US soil. well, i mean, id hate to get all techy on you but...why the hell would any jihadi try to attack americans in america when there are 130000 troops right there on their doorstep ready to be picked off? 44 american marines have died in the last 10 days, 75th. 1800 in combat total. about 25000 severely wounded (ie incapacitated. look at poor needtogetas, for example. that mofo cant spell. this christmas he'll probably sign his kids christmas card "from satan" by accident, the poor bastard)

there are lots and lots and lots and lots of attacks on americans these days, 75th. how you tally them is up to you, but it doesnt change the truth.

Association between Saddam and bin Laden "that wasnt:" Debunks your entire argument from now to eternity. Proven beyond a reasonable doubt, even published in sources you would agree with; NYT, AP, Reuters, etc that there indeed WAS a collaboration between Saddam and bin Laden. A working relationship towards a common goal; the destruction of Israel and conversion of the Western world. I think youre confusing this point with....

really? link me or back up what you just said (just to make you run around, you bastard ) but apart from that, a working relationship does not justify full scale invasion. i mean, we're talking about countries and wars ehre, this isnt a matter of simple, individual justice! even if you are right, and saddam was in bin ladens pocket (he wasnt) it takes nothing away from the statement that invading iraq was wrong.

Saddam and 9/11: No evidence that supports such a claim. I assume that was your point.

yes, that was my point, and yet, such insinuations were made by your administration in order to foster fear, and justify the war.

The UN not sanctioning the war: Please go into detail explaining how this war was "illegal." 10 bucks says you cant, because through mandates and resolutions, we did have authority through the United Nations. If not for Saddam constantly breaking the cease-fire during the '90s, then for the resolutions that were passed in the '00s as well.

oh bullshit. the US trashed the UN when it decided to go to war on such a short timeframe. the UN weapons inspectors declared that there were no weapons in iraq. the US was scrambling to justify its position on iraq, even going so low as to say that gulf war 1 had not been declared over, and so technically, the US was still at war and could do what it wanted. at the end of the day, the decision had been made, and the US was going in whether anyone was coming or not.

the UN was shredded as a credible organisation after that.

Americans questioning the war: I dont call anybody unpatriotic for questioning the war or Bush. I call people assholes for insulting and/or not supporting the troops. Many here fail to see the distinction.

well then, what do you call the guy who lies to the troops, telling them that they were putting themselves in harms way to go and protect america, when really they were being fed into the meat grinder for the sake of american imperialism, and a largely jewish agenda?

i support troops in that i think it is good that they are doing their duty, which is to do what the administration tells them, and to do a good job of it. however, if the mission was bullshit in the first place, do i honor them, their families, or their lost comerades by leaving them in place to continue suffering, and dying pointlessly? ill continue to support troops - hell, my town thrives because of them - but id rather support them HERE, as members of teh DEFENSE force, not as members of the imperial army of his majesty george bush, holding the scepter of halliburton.

Shock and Awe killing blah blah blah: Blind emotion = biggest sign of weak argument. "Oh god, think of the children!" If you want to debate the facts (or theories in many cases you bring up) then debate them. Its a war, sometimes civilians die. Anybody who suggests that our troops have NOT placed themselves in greater danger by protecting Iraqi civilians needs their heads examined.

well, for a start, "shock and awe" was a war crime. you dont go dropping great big bombs in the middle of civilian populations.

furthermore, i dont give a shit what your soldiers have suffered as compared to ordinary iraqis (though i deplore all of their sufferings) because the fact is, members of your military signed up for it, and had an option not to be there. the ordinary iraqis sitting in their ancestral homes, on the other hand, did not have such a choice, and as such, being collateral damage in a war of choice at the hands of americans who were supposedly there to help protect them is a tad bloody unjust no matter which bloody way you turn it, dont you think?

Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay: "Im not outraged by the actions at Abu Ghraib. Im outraged by the outrage" - Senator whose name I cannot remember.
If you consider urinating on a Koran as torture, I sincerely hope you are never captured during a war. You are in for a big surprise.

well, would you be outraged if you were snatched up from the countryside by the USA who kept you in prison for 3 years without charges, trial, or communications from your loved ones? i think i would. and i dont give a shit about pissing on korans, i think that being held unjustly, even though a US judge has said taht it is illegal, is crime enough. if i were to kidnap you or your wife, lock you up in a cupbord and feed you every day and NOT fuck you in the ass, does the idea taht i could have done much, much worse somehow make everything alright?

how demented must you be to subscribe to such thinking?

Bush winning two elections: Are you complaining that Bush won? Or that Gore dragged the country through an illegal supreme court fiasco? Or that Bush won the 2nd time around despite everything thrown at him except the kitchen sink? Elaborate.

frankly i think that the second election was rigged.

As for what I assume was the point of your rant...I dont see why we should use a more effective killing tool when at the same time we are placing more and more of our soldiers in harms way by restraining their effectiveness because of bullshit PC pressure. There are much more effecient ways of doing this that would have resulted in less than 1/4 of the US AND Iraqi civilian casualties that we have endured up to this point.

i can think of an even better way than that, that would have resulted in a 100% lower casualty rate - NOT GOING ON THIS BOGUS IMPERIAL MISSION IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE.

ahem. sorry, was that loud? was that a bit too common sensical for you? are you upset that it kind of avoided the thrust of your statement completely, while the carpet was ripped out from under you, planting your face into the ground?

In short, our self-imposed weakness is the problem.

i think your arrogance, hubris, and denial is a bigger problem.

and to top it all off, you used depleted uranium to do it, you bad, bad people. (thats another war crime, by the way. just so you know )

 

[GoldenDelicious]

hurry up and reply, 75th! you arent...gasp...SLEEPING are you?! i mean, it isnt even 6pm yet! its still the middle of the day!

you arent running from pwnage are you?

cant you reply to a simple post?

what are you doing, prettying yourself up/going out/trying to look good or something?

lol i am sooo high on caffiene

 

[~Lexy~]

Cool thread.

 

[mountain muscle]

GD,

If you are so offended by this war, why were you not offended and outspoken about Saddam's actions during his rule? He and his sadistic regime account for about 1.5 million deaths. But I have never seen you speak out against him and his regime. Just curious why the USA is so bad in this conflict and it is okay for him to do far worse than you can imagine during his lengthy rule, yet not a peep from you.

 

[ziggyziggy]

Nice attempt at twisting my words. You were wrong. The fact that you feel the need to defend yourself and motives to such length is ample evidence of such, to myself and others. You really made no point in your response to me, other than you are a liar. No Australian SAS trooper has been killed or wounded in Iraq. How does that crow taste now?

Zig

75th: before you say anything, shush. getting to it. ()

no, my remarks were not. i freely admitted that my remarks were designed to reciprocate the feelings of indignation and irritation i myself experienced when medicj acted out of line. if that response was my natural reply, then i might agree with you, but in this case, it was simply something done by design to press a button. and so your analogy did not go over my wonderful head, its just that i chose to ignore it because it was not pertinent

not only arent you my shrink, but you arent a shrink at all. which fits in with your 'analyses'.

furthermore, i did not 'taunt' anyone with death and mayhem, since a better example of that would be, say, to say that i hoped someone died etc. what i did do was use something in her personal history to add an edge to an otherwise fair enough remark, though i didnt think that the knee jerk pro american respone you get around here would extend to defending someone from something that didnt happen. i hate to break it to you, but talking about injury isnt taboo, nor is it taunting.

not bad for someone that isnt a shrink! well, not really. what i tap into this forum is FAR from what you need to know about me, since most of what i type here is flippant, and is designed to entertain. furthermore, i do not enjoy kicking people while theyre down - could you give me an example of where i have done that? or are you implying that my constant highlighting of the shortfalls in US policy equate to kicking people while they are down, since you realise that im right about your president, your administration, and your war?

if you cant see that im the sort to go toe to toe against someone, rather than kick them while theyre down, then what can i say...your perception is a tad askew

really? like the ones who were hospitalised in the veterans hospital i worked in, who were calling george bush a fucking useless cunt, who was starting shit that he didnt have to fight, that he was a bought and paid for man, that he should be shot to avoid the upcoming war? you mean, THOSE sas troops?

whether or not western military personell of today are fighting for my 'rights' and 'freedoms' depend on your political slant. if you believe all that bullshit george bush said, then sure, theyre fighting for my freedom. personally though, i think theyre fighting for a lie, in a failing ploy designed to line the pockets of various american industrialists.

when do i taunt the families of the dead? when do i jerk off to the response to my comments? in the very post i made to medicj that started it all i said that the administration of teh day is 'misusing worthy and noble people, like your partner' - how is that in any way derogatory? she was innapropriate, i replied in a calculated way, and it achieved the desired effect.

correllating anonymous comments on an anonymous board with manhood is stupid, as is your statement that i clearly have no testicles. that is ridiculous, though i am a reasonable guy - my testicles are available for inspection by any good looking family members you might have and also, i do not enjoy hurting people emotionally - sure, i can enjoy the exchange of dialogue/insults/scat pictures with like minded people (eg 75th, who admitted to me in a PM that he just clowning around, and that he actually agrees that george bush is a bit of a wanker, and that he thinks that i am a funny guy) (well ok im lying ) but in the case of the mental defectives on this site, i jump in for a quick tweak and out again. if i were a psychopath, let me assure you, my statements would be a good deal more cutting than they are.

when i talk about 'americans' generally im speaking of your administration and those who strongly agree with their policies. however, i do not label them as bloodthirsty, rather i think that their perception is severely skewed to their own point of view - ie an american hero soldier dying is a great loss, while a mother dying in her home with her 5 children from a misdropped bomb is collateral damage. nor do i think americans are totalitarian - rather the opposite. i think that they are all about free trade and capitalism, under the condition that they come out on top (which was evidenced by the recent bid for china to buy an mid sized US oil company...free trade? someone tell taht to the senators freaking out that the chinese might actually USE some of teh dollars they have earned over the past 2 decades )

yes, i know what your point is, and again, i say that my having 'filled those shoes' is irrellevent. the only thing that counts is the weight of my argument. thats all that EVER counts. would you disregard the opinion of someone who was right about something simply because they had not done it before? its taht sort of blind faith that allows atrocities like the war on terror to be committed in your name. critical analysis is the best thing taht could happen to a country.

oh and in case you didnt notice - i dont talk smack about service members - only about the people who misuse their patriotism by sending them across the world, to kill and to die, for nothing.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Nice attempt at twisting my words. You were wrong. The fact that you feel the need to defend yourself and motives to such length is ample evidence of such, to myself and others. You really made no point in your response to me, other than you are a liar. No Australian SAS trooper has been killed or wounded in Iraq. How does that crow taste now?

Zig

well, given that the hospital i was at is a verterans hospital, which means that it is used by all veterans, of all ages, from all wars, and not just for those wounded in whatever conflict is on at the time, and there were diggers there along with sailors and airmen, id say that the crow is tasting pretty good.

the quote that is stuck in my mind was from a guy with total incapacitation in the psych ward who said "those fucking cunts, theyre doing it again...theyve fucking guarinteed your job for the next 50 years"...and i suppose he was right. the conflict DID guarintee that hopital staying open for at least 50 years

so, since we're talking about the metaphoric culinary items of the moment, how is your foot tasting, zig?

 

[GoldenDelicious]

GD,

If you are so offended by this war, why were you not offended and outspoken about Saddam's actions during his rule? He and his sadistic regime account for about 1.5 million deaths. But I have never seen you speak out against him and his regime. Just curious why the USA is so bad in this conflict and it is okay for him to do far worse than you can imagine during his lengthy rule, yet not a peep from you.

i suppose its because saddams atrocities were not newsworthy, and so i didnt hear about them.

just like i dont know much about the dictators that exist in several ex-soviet satellites.

just like i dont know the particulars of the conflict raging throughout africa.

just like i dont know much of what is happening in kashmir

its about exposure, and also, about australias, or greece's, involvement. i know rather a lot about east timor and what the the indonesians were doing, that required an australian led UN force, and also about the specifics of what is happening in papua new guinea, since my government is involved.

im interested, adn conservative (even a bit isolationist) but im not omnipotent.