all you americans

[medicj]

oh, youve discovered that it pisses you off when people reply innappropriately to you? really? how did you work that one out?

i spoke nicely to you, and you replied like a tart bitch. who the hell do you think you are that you can rubbish my posts and tell me to shut the hell up? fuck you! i dont give a shit that you work lots and lots of hours per week as a paramedic. you get PAID. thats your JOB. you dont like it? cut hours, and shut the hell up.

you want to pull the medical badge on me and act like youre a saint? for doing your job? ill think of it when im working as a pharmacist, diagnosing things that a doctor should have but the person cant afford it so they come to ME, for FREE. ill think of it when the public health system takes a dump on my profession time and time again simply because its politically convenient, because its easier to tally up how much drugs cost as opposed to how much money (and lives) are saved when someone like me looks over a patients drug history and finds someone elses mistake, or something that might be done better, or somehow finds a real solution to a real problem, as opposed to some of the bullshit that is flung out by other medical practitioners. frankly, i dont give a shit how many hours you work. you spoke rudely to me, and i replied in kind, so that you can feel the indignation i felt, and not repeat it.

now, i dont watch TV. nor do i have a lard arse. and if people like me were in charge of the country, people like your partner wouldnt be in harms way in the first place. and im in australia. we dont have marines. we have ADF personell.

you self righteous idiot. i start the thread to chat about depleted uranium, and you start with the knee jerk idiot patriotism that wasnt, then have the gall to tell me that you were having a real discussion with real people, because your partner got some shrapnel in his leg and missed christmas.

AWWWWWW, pumpkin. Are u mad? Don't be mad. By the way, I love my job-- just for the record.i would do it for free.
Don't tell me about u being stuck in Australia--like it's MY fault u are not american and don't have Marines. I probably do need to be more understanding ... I would be bitter,2.If u learn some honor, dignity and respect -- maybe u can come visit.U would love it here. It's a good time in this free land.
About me telling u to leave your own thread ... well .... sorry,hun. U were the only one bringing nonsense to the table.

 

[ziggyziggy]

lol

Your power is weak old man. You should not have returned.

Spoken like a true Jedi.

Zig

 

[pintoca]

where is the depleted uranium in the last 4 pages??? this shit got derailed after my post this morning explaining what depleted uranium was...

sigh

 

[75th]

lol

Your power is weak old man. You should not have returned.

If you should G-bomb me now I would become more powerful than you could ever imagine.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

You know I like you brother but that wasnt called for. Maybe its just because I was wounded, but almost losing your better half is nothing to joke about, even if her emotions are clouding her judgement.

its probably because you were wounded. i spoke nicely to her and tried to keep the thread on track, she insulted me, and i tweaked her nose in exchange.

now, i havnt got to your post because i need my assistant to look up the bloody specifics of that stupid UN resolution i cant remember the name of, but ill reply, thought its bloody 5am here, and i have to go to a powerlifting meet at 12. wonderful.

and ziggyziggy, get over it. her partner got some shrapnel in his leg. there was no brain damage. yeesh.

 

[medicj]

If you should G-bomb me now I would become more powerful than you could ever imagine.

I like u, 75th.

 

[bluepeter]

If you should G-bomb me now I would become more powerful than you could ever imagine.

lmao

 

[75th]

I like u, 75th.

I dont know you, but I respect you and your husband. Hell come home safe, Im sure of it. Im sure you do this already, but letters every day are the best thing in the world when it comes to supporting him.

On a different note, while I have this free platinum membership for the next week, I apologize, but seeing as how your are non-platinum, I do indeed have to G-Bomb you.

 

[medicj]

its probably because you were wounded. i spoke nicely to her and tried to keep the thread on track, she insulted me, and i tweaked her nose in exchange.

now, i havnt got to your post because i need my assistant to look up the bloody specifics of that stupid UN resolution i cant remember the name of, but ill reply, thought its bloody 5am here, and i have to go to a powerlifting meet at 12. wonderful.

and ziggyziggy, get over it. her partner got some shrapnel in his leg. there was no brain damage. yeesh.

U didn't speak nicely to me. Nice try. U just go to your little league powerlifting meet. Give it some time. Why don't u just admit that u are being a jerk- then maybe things will get better for u. I really am a nice girl.

 

[jnevin]

where is the depleted uranium in the last 4 pages??? this shit got derailed after my post this morning explaining what depleted uranium was...

sigh

I wanted more on that as well. The whole thread turned into every other war/ political thread ever posted on this site.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

AWWWWWW, pumpkin. Are u mad? Don't be mad. By the way, I love my job-- just for the record.i would do it for free.
Don't tell me about u being stuck in Australia--like it's MY fault u are not american and don't have Marines. I probably do need to be more understanding ... I would be bitter,2.If u learn some honor, dignity and respect -- maybe u can come visit.U would love it here. It's a good time in this free land.
About me telling u to leave your own thread ... well .... sorry,hun. U were the only one bringing nonsense to the table.

well if you love your job, dont portray yourself as a martyr for doing it. not only do you use your line of work to somehow justify acting like a self centred cow, but now you spin it to make out that you work for love. what a load of bullshit.

now, being 'stuck' in australia is kind of like being 'stuck' in paradise. its lovely. i like it a lot ...so quit being snide.

also, australian defense force personell are trained better than marines. there are fewer of them, and they trained more extensively (simple fact of life). im sure there are a few things taht the marines do better, but as a general rule, adf soldiers do better than marines overall.

furthermore, in response to the US being a free land...have you read the patriot act lately?

and in regard to me brining nonsense to the thread, please, i replied to your post nicely and trie dot keep the thread on track, and in response, i get commands from some nobody on the other side of the world as if they have the right to talk down to people. now, i dont know if people talk straight to you where you come from, but youre flat out full of shit, and trying to turn the tables on me and play dumb isnt going to work. YOU instigated this. YOU spoke out of line, so it falls to you to accept responsibility for your actions and apologise, rather than try to muddy the water with weak derogorations of a country i doubt you have been to.

 

[75th]

I wanted more on that as well. The whole thread turned into every other war/ political thread ever posted on this site.

Im sure once GD replies it will get back on pseudo-track.

 

[medicj]

I dont know you, but I respect you and your husband. Hell come home safe, Im sure of it. Im sure you do this already, but letters every day are the best thing in the world when it comes to supporting him.

On a different note, while I have this free platinum membership for the next week, I apologize, but seeing as how your are non-platinum, I do indeed have to G-Bomb you.

Sure. Whatever. I guess that's fair. But it was worth it.

 

[75th]

furthermore, in response to the US being a free land...have you read the patriot act lately?

Speaking of nonsense......

You would be hard pressed to find one single, solitary person in America who has been affected by the Patriot Act.

 

[ziggyziggy]

Sorry, bro, but that was still way below the belt, even if you were kidding.

A close friend of mine just died two days ago. His liver went to the mother of one of my co-workers. You think I would go to my late friend's fiancee and tell her, "Your future husband just died due to hyponatremia, but I see who got the brain damage from it." Fuck no. And she is someone that I have known for two years. You're spouting that crap to someone that you have never met. Not only is that irresponsible of you, but downright degrading.

I seriously doubt that you have the integrity, fortitude, or courage to stand up for something that you believe in by putting yourself in harm's way. Of course, it is probably OK to you that the peons in the military, of which I was one for 13 years, should fight and die for what you believe in.

Until you have filled the shoes of a soldier, marine or sailor in combat, kindly piss off and stay away from topics that you have no knowledge about. It only serves to let the rest of us see your lack of tact, intelligence, and judgement.

Zig

 

[medicj]

well if you love your job, dont portray yourself as a martyr for doing it. not only do you use your line of work to somehow justify acting like a self centred cow, but now you spin it to make out that you work for love. what a load of bullshit.

now, being 'stuck' in australia is kind of like being 'stuck' in paradise. its lovely. i like it a lot ...so quit being snide.

also, australian defense force personell are trained better than marines. there are fewer of them, and they trained more extensively (simple fact of life). im sure there are a few things taht the marines do better, but as a general rule, adf soldiers do better than marines overall.

furthermore, in response to the US being a free land...have you read the patriot act lately?

and in regard to me brining nonsense to the thread, please, i replied to your post nicely and trie dot keep the thread on track, and in response, i get commands from some nobody on the other side of the world as if they have the right to talk down to people. now, i dont know if people talk straight to you where you come from, but youre flat out full of shit, and trying to turn the tables on me and play dumb isnt going to work. YOU instigated this. YOU spoke out of line, so it falls to you to accept responsibility for your actions and apologise, rather than try to muddy the water with weak derogorations of a country i doubt you have been to.

A martyr gives up something and suffers for others. That's not me. I am blessed with the chance to do my job. I only gain. Even in the worst sittuations - I gain a lesson or 2.I have it so good at work -- I feel selfish at times.U started this thread talking shit. It's all there. Just scroll back. U were just trying to provide yourself with entertainment at the expense of others. I have no regret about ANYTHING I have said.

 

[jnevin]

A martyr gives up something and suffers for others. That's not me. I am blessed with the chance to do my job. I only gain. Even in the worst sittuations - I gain a lesson or 2.I have it so good at work -- I feel selfish at times.U started this thread talking shit. It's all there. Just scroll back. U were just trying to provide yourself with entertainment at the expense of others. I have no regret about ANYTHING I have said.

It wasn't so much shit talking as it was questioning our military's commander's choice of ammo and its effects on the country we are trying to better. It was a valid point.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

U didn't speak nicely to me. Nice try. U just go to your little league powerlifting meet. Give it some time. Why don't u just admit that u are being a jerk- then maybe things will get better for u. I really am a nice girl.

1) go read post 66 again. i spoke nicely. your next post was to tell me to shut up.
2) im going to the powerlifting meet to support a relative who is lifting. belittling the calibre of the meet, apart from being silly, because people at "little league" meets try just as hard as those at "big" meets, only highlights that you are, in reality, an insecure person.
3) i was a jerk in a single post, which was designed to piss you off, in response to you acting like a poor bitch for no reason at all. you, on the other hand, are consistently snide and prissy.
4) it isnt for the one in the bubble to decide what they are or arent. from the way youre talking, you think youre a nice girl, but judging by some of the things youve said, your perception is a tad off - so it is perfectly possible that you are, in reality, a fat disgusting lard who uses her line of work to prop up her image in the eyes of others, the same way that she uses her partners sacrifice and service in iraq to score deferred regard from the people she tells it to, and furthermore, has a bullying sort of demeanor where rather than allow a person to make their own mind up about what she is or isnt, thinks that it is appropriate to dictate unto them how they should in fact perceive you - in snide posts, no less - which is perfectly in line with what i said - that you act like a snide, prissy, bitch with a chip on her shoulder, and is probably used to getting her own way.

now apologise, you fat potato

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Speaking of nonsense......

You would be hard pressed to find one single, solitary person in America who has been affected by the Patriot Act.

youre right, i wouldnt find them.

...poor bastards have probably been locked in some cave somewhere, held without charges, awaiting torture

 

[jnevin]

youre right, i wouldnt find them.

...poor bastards have probably been locked in some cave somewhere, held without charges, awaiting torture

lol. smartass

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Sorry, bro, but that was still way below the belt, even if you were kidding.

A close friend of mine just died two days ago. His liver went to the mother of one of my co-workers. You think I would go to my late friend's fiancee and tell her, "Your future husband just died due to hyponatremia, but I see who got the brain damage from it." Fuck no. And she is someone that I have known for two years. You're spouting that crap to someone that you have never met. Not only is that irresponsible of you, but downright degrading.

I seriously doubt that you have the integrity, fortitude, or courage to stand up for something that you believe in by putting yourself in harm's way. Of course, it is probably OK to you that the peons in the military, of which I was one for 13 years, should fight and die for what you believe in.

Until you have filled the shoes of a soldier, marine or sailor in combat, kindly piss off and stay away from topics that you have no knowledge about. It only serves to let the rest of us see your lack of tact, intelligence, and judgement.

Zig

uhuh. so what youre saying is that youre hypersensitive to people close to people dying because you just lost someone and it hurt your feelings. hm. uhuh. right. well, i hate to break it to you, but it was an off the cuff remark, and while i appreciate that youre a bit sensitive right now, since you were in the military for 13 years, im sure youre a tough guy and so you can nicely get over it

if you cannot limit your perception of a word/phrase/idea to the context in which it is being discussed, then i strongly suggest that you log off from the internet, the TV, and dont read any books. actually, dont even play music - because you never know, some irresponsible person that youve never ever met who doesnt know who the hell you are, may have once made some sort of recording/communication that may, potentially, perhaps, trigger your hypersensitivity to this thing called 'death' which happens every single day, and you might have to write a post about them calling them irresponsible and ot shut up.

now, as per my 'fortitude', you can "strongly doubt" whatever you like, but it wont mean a thing, because *I* "strongly doubt" that you know what youre talking about, since youve never met me .

and lastly, i dont see how filling the shoes of a marine, sailor or soldier in combat suddenly spawns the ability to think in a person. i mean, surely you couldnt be advocating the idea that a persons opinion should be taken based on what they themselves have done in the military, as opposed to the sheer weight of their argument? i mean, you wouldnt say such a thing, becasue, i mean...thats pretty dumb

 

[75th]

youre right, i wouldnt find them.

...poor bastards have probably been locked in some cave somewhere, held without charges, awaiting torture

I walked into that one.

 

[ziggyziggy]

uhuh. so what youre saying is that youre hypersensitive to people close to people dying because you just lost someone and it hurt your feelings. hm. uhuh. right. well, i hate to break it to you, but it was an off the cuff remark, and while i appreciate that youre a bit sensitive right now, since you were in the military for 13 years, im sure youre a tough guy and so you can nicely get over it

Its not my sensitivity that I'm concerned with. It was merely an example of how your remarks were the perfect demonstration of low class. Obviously, my analogy went right over your self-absorbed head.

if you cannot limit your perception of a word/phrase/idea to the context in which it is being discussed, then i strongly suggest that you log off from the internet, the TV, and dont read any books. actually, dont even play music - because you never know, some irresponsible person that youve never ever met who doesnt know who the hell you are, may have once made some sort of recording/communication that may, potentially, perhaps, trigger your hypersensitivity to this thing called 'death' which happens every single day, and you might have to write a post about them calling them irresponsible and ot shut up.

I did limit my analogy to the context of the discussion. See my comment above. Yes, death and mayhem happen every day. Unlike you, I do not go out of my way to taunt the victims and family members of those victims with the calculus of death and mayhem. Perhaps you should read your own signature and live by those words, but then again, I'm not your shrink.

now, as per my 'fortitude', you can "strongly doubt" whatever you like, but it wont mean a thing, because *I* "strongly doubt" that you know what youre talking about, since youve never met me .

The things that you type on this forum tell me everything that I need to know about you. Meeting you in person could change that, but I doubt that it would. You enjoy kicking people when they are down. That's not an accusation, but an observation based on your rants here. That says a lot about you, and the life that you choose to live. It says that you are pathetic.

and lastly, i dont see how filling the shoes of a marine, sailor or soldier in combat suddenly spawns the ability to think in a person. i mean, surely you couldnt be advocating the idea that a persons opinion should be taken based on what they themselves have done in the military, as opposed to the sheer weight of their argument? i mean, you wouldnt say such a thing, becasue, i mean...thats pretty dumb

Again, my simple statement obviously went over the top of your flat head. You regularly and consistantly degrade the men and women who have, and still do, protect your rights and freedoms, regardless of whatever country you live in. Try talking your BS to an Aussie SAS trooper, if you have the nuts to. I know what would happen, as I trained extensively with them in 1994 and 1995. Your ass would be in a sling. You know it, and I know it. Knowing this, you bring your whining ass here, where you can easily hide behind a keyboard and anonymity of the 'net.

You taunt the families of the dead and wounded because .......? Maybe you get off on it, and are jerking off to medicj's emotional responses to your out of line comments. Maybe it makes you feel like a man, when you obviously have no testicles of your own. Then again, perhaps you are a true psychopath, and wounding people emotionally just makes you feel normal. The truth of the matter is that I don't know, and really don't care, aside the pain that you cause to others.

You label Americans, with a broad brushstroke, as stupid, idiotic, totalitarian, and bloodthirsty. However, your posts show you closer to the ideology that you profess to hate, rather than above the fray, as you would like us to believe.

My point was, and still is, that you have no right to talk smack about men and women in uniform unless you have filled their shoes in harm's way, period. Now, I imagine that I can see the lightbulb, albeit a dim one, coming on in your head right now. Then again, that may be too much to hope for.

By the way, I hope that you choose option number one. But I won't be dissappointed of you choose number two.

Zig

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

DU's are great, the casualties would be worse if we did not use them, this is warfare 101.

I like cheeseburgers

 

[TimmyT]

We were trained that DU munitions were not dangerous unless they're flying at us or a vehicle hit with them is still burning. Inhaling DU laced smoke was a no-no. Cancer risk and what-not.

 

[DJ_UFO]

I do not reply to the original post due to the big amount of bullshit and ignorance posted by an ignorant parasite. Don't waste your time fellas, and somebody ban this clown.

 

[jnevin]

DU's are great, the casualties would be worse if we did not use them, this is warfare 101.

I like cheeseburgers

Make up your fucking mind bro. Do you like cheeseburgers or tacos? Pull your head out of your ass and don't forget to diversify your funds, bitches.

 

[spongebob]

...that supported the war, or bush, or the bullshit that has been spun, or did at some stage support/believe in any of it, i was wondering, what do you guys think about the use of depleted uranium throughout iraq?

i mean, sorry to be that annoying jimmy the cricket voice (with an aussie accent) and bring up those things that some people here like to forget (like you know, weapons of mass destruction, osama bin laden, the association between osama and saddam that wasnt, the association between 911 and iraq that wasnt, the UN not sanctioning the war, the head of the iraq weapons inspectors "committing suicide"...how convenient..., americans calling questioners unpatriotic, freedom fries, "shock and awe" killing thousands of cowering iraqis in their homes, military protection of the oil ministry but no other ministry, abu ghraib, guatanamo bay, all those "enemy combatants" held without trial, bush winning the second election by 1%...how convenient...during the first election where electronic voting machines are used and are not subject to public scrutiny...how convenient....where evidence of vote manipulation was rife....anyway, all those things that a right thinking person would think would lead pretty instantly to impeachment and imprisonment, but apart from all that, what i want to talk about today is...

...depleted uranium. i mean, given that the world is scared shitless of terrorists detonating a "dirty bomb" in some western city, and given that its just after the 60th anniversary of atomic weapons being dropped in hiroshima/nagasaki, im curious to know what all you people who accept the war think about your military sprinkling hundreds of tonnes of depleted uranium throughout iraq, which in itself is a weapon of mass destruction, poisoning the land, air, water, people of iraq (who are giving birth to nicely deformed children as we speak, and suffering ungodly rates of previously insignificant cancers - side effects that are shared by the very soldiers using the ammunition, which is rather at odds with the "support the troops" idiots who think that public sympathy/empathy for soldiers is what is needed, rather than withdrawal from an immoral, unneccessary war (though that particular phrase has lost its poignancy through sheer repetition)

so come on. would all the pro-war, pro-"democracy", pro-"shut up GD you fucking foreigner", pro-"here is freedom, so shut up and put on your veil" people, who are so noisy in other threads, like to post their opinions on the costs, benefits, and morality of using such weapons in the context of the iraq and afghan wars?

...or will your shame, and silence, let this thread sink to the bottom of the site, until a thread comes up where its suitable for you to chime in, en masse, and type in slogans and "pwned" while you backslap each other on how wonderful you are

hm?

by the way, australia is up to its neck in iraq and afghanistan at the moment, so keep it civil...comerades

i havent noticed a problem with it.

 

[HiDnGoD]

pro bush.. anti bush..WTF are you guys talking about???

I'm pro-bush, but only a heart or landing strip. I am anti-bush if it is too long or unruly.

 

[Spartacus]

I already sunk his battleship.

I captured his queen long ago

 

[WONDERBUNN]

I'm sure every american wants to support our troops. If DU is exposing our troops with radiation, we should get rid of it, period.

My uncle got fucked over by the governement. He fought in Viet Nam, had tons of agent orange dumped on him. What did get in return?? A slow agonizing death. It turns out that a chemical in agent orange, benzine, causes cancer. The military Doctors attributed the Leukemia directly to agent orange exposure. The worse part is he isn't the only one. their are many.

And our government still does shit like this, exposure to chemicals, radiation not caring for the long term consequence of the soldiers. I've been to VFW meetings and i'm amazed that there are so many WW2 vets still kickin around, in their 80's full of piss and vinegar. I think it has something to do with them not drowning in toxic shit. In an ideal world the government should take care of its troops. But sometimes this is not the case.

And last lets call a spade a spade.

If we are suppose to me liberating a people, why would we expose them to radiation?? Isn't that couter productive??

The only reason we really give a shit about Iraq or the middle east is OIL. That being said, i'm starting to think it may be a better idea to make Iraq a parking lot. and keep all the oil for ourselves. Make it the 51st state "nicknamed the concete state."

 

[wnt2bBeast]

...that supported the war, or bush, or the bullshit that has been spun, or did at some stage support/believe in any of it, i was wondering, what do you guys think about the use of depleted uranium throughout iraq?

i mean, sorry to be that annoying jimmy the cricket voice (with an aussie accent) and bring up those things that some people here like to forget (like you know, weapons of mass destruction, osama bin laden, the association between osama and saddam that wasnt, the association between 911 and iraq that wasnt, the UN not sanctioning the war, the head of the iraq weapons inspectors "committing suicide"...how convenient..., americans calling questioners unpatriotic, freedom fries, "shock and awe" killing thousands of cowering iraqis in their homes, military protection of the oil ministry but no other ministry, abu ghraib, guatanamo bay, all those "enemy combatants" held without trial, bush winning the second election by 1%...how convenient...during the first election where electronic voting machines are used and are not subject to public scrutiny...how convenient....where evidence of vote manipulation was rife....anyway, all those things that a right thinking person would think would lead pretty instantly to impeachment and imprisonment, but apart from all that, what i want to talk about today is...

...depleted uranium. i mean, given that the world is scared shitless of terrorists detonating a "dirty bomb" in some western city, and given that its just after the 60th anniversary of atomic weapons being dropped in hiroshima/nagasaki, im curious to know what all you people who accept the war think about your military sprinkling hundreds of tonnes of depleted uranium throughout iraq, which in itself is a weapon of mass destruction, poisoning the land, air, water, people of iraq (who are giving birth to nicely deformed children as we speak, and suffering ungodly rates of previously insignificant cancers - side effects that are shared by the very soldiers using the ammunition, which is rather at odds with the "support the troops" idiots who think that public sympathy/empathy for soldiers is what is needed, rather than withdrawal from an immoral, unneccessary war (though that particular phrase has lost its poignancy through sheer repetition)

so come on. would all the pro-war, pro-"democracy", pro-"shut up GD you fucking foreigner", pro-"here is freedom, so shut up and put on your veil" people, who are so noisy in other threads, like to post their opinions on the costs, benefits, and morality of using such weapons in the context of the iraq and afghan wars?

...or will your shame, and silence, let this thread sink to the bottom of the site, until a thread comes up where its suitable for you to chime in, en masse, and type in slogans and "pwned" while you backslap each other on how wonderful you are

hm?

by the way, australia is up to its neck in iraq and afghanistan at the moment, so keep it civil...comerades

Frome America

with no Love

 

[GoldenDelicious]

75th: before you say anything, shush. getting to it. ()

Its not my sensitivity that I'm concerned with. It was merely an example of how your remarks were the perfect demonstration of low class. Obviously, my analogy went right over your self-absorbed head.

no, my remarks were not. i freely admitted that my remarks were designed to reciprocate the feelings of indignation and irritation i myself experienced when medicj acted out of line. if that response was my natural reply, then i might agree with you, but in this case, it was simply something done by design to press a button. and so your analogy did not go over my wonderful head, its just that i chose to ignore it because it was not pertinent

I did limit my analogy to the context of the discussion. See my comment above. Yes, death and mayhem happen every day. Unlike you, I do not go out of my way to taunt the victims and family members of those victims with the calculus of death and mayhem. Perhaps you should read your own signature and live by those words, but then again, I'm not your shrink.

not only arent you my shrink, but you arent a shrink at all. which fits in with your 'analyses'.

furthermore, i did not 'taunt' anyone with death and mayhem, since a better example of that would be, say, to say that i hoped someone died etc. what i did do was use something in her personal history to add an edge to an otherwise fair enough remark, though i didnt think that the knee jerk pro american respone you get around here would extend to defending someone from something that didnt happen. i hate to break it to you, but talking about injury isnt taboo, nor is it taunting.

The things that you type on this forum tell me everything that I need to know about you. Meeting you in person could change that, but I doubt that it would. You enjoy kicking people when they are down. That's not an accusation, but an observation based on your rants here. That says a lot about you, and the life that you choose to live. It says that you are pathetic.

not bad for someone that isnt a shrink! well, not really. what i tap into this forum is FAR from what you need to know about me, since most of what i type here is flippant, and is designed to entertain. furthermore, i do not enjoy kicking people while theyre down - could you give me an example of where i have done that? or are you implying that my constant highlighting of the shortfalls in US policy equate to kicking people while they are down, since you realise that im right about your president, your administration, and your war?

if you cant see that im the sort to go toe to toe against someone, rather than kick them while theyre down, then what can i say...your perception is a tad askew

Again, my simple statement obviously went over the top of your flat head. You regularly and consistantly degrade the men and women who have, and still do, protect your rights and freedoms, regardless of whatever country you live in. Try talking your BS to an Aussie SAS trooper, if you have the nuts to. I know what would happen, as I trained extensively with them in 1994 and 1995. Your ass would be in a sling. You know it, and I know it. Knowing this, you bring your whining ass here, where you can easily hide behind a keyboard and anonymity of the 'net.

really? like the ones who were hospitalised in the veterans hospital i worked in, who were calling george bush a fucking useless cunt, who was starting shit that he didnt have to fight, that he was a bought and paid for man, that he should be shot to avoid the upcoming war? you mean, THOSE sas troops?

whether or not western military personell of today are fighting for my 'rights' and 'freedoms' depend on your political slant. if you believe all that bullshit george bush said, then sure, theyre fighting for my freedom. personally though, i think theyre fighting for a lie, in a failing ploy designed to line the pockets of various american industrialists.

You taunt the families of the dead and wounded because .......? Maybe you get off on it, and are jerking off to medicj's emotional responses to your out of line comments. Maybe it makes you feel like a man, when you obviously have no testicles of your own. Then again, perhaps you are a true psychopath, and wounding people emotionally just makes you feel normal. The truth of the matter is that I don't know, and really don't care, aside the pain that you cause to others.

when do i taunt the families of the dead? when do i jerk off to the response to my comments? in the very post i made to medicj that started it all i said that the administration of teh day is 'misusing worthy and noble people, like your partner' - how is that in any way derogatory? she was innapropriate, i replied in a calculated way, and it achieved the desired effect.

correllating anonymous comments on an anonymous board with manhood is stupid, as is your statement that i clearly have no testicles. that is ridiculous, though i am a reasonable guy - my testicles are available for inspection by any good looking family members you might have and also, i do not enjoy hurting people emotionally - sure, i can enjoy the exchange of dialogue/insults/scat pictures with like minded people (eg 75th, who admitted to me in a PM that he just clowning around, and that he actually agrees that george bush is a bit of a wanker, and that he thinks that i am a funny guy) (well ok im lying ) but in the case of the mental defectives on this site, i jump in for a quick tweak and out again. if i were a psychopath, let me assure you, my statements would be a good deal more cutting than they are.

You label Americans, with a broad brushstroke, as stupid, idiotic, totalitarian, and bloodthirsty. However, your posts show you closer to the ideology that you profess to hate, rather than above the fray, as you would like us to believe.

when i talk about 'americans' generally im speaking of your administration and those who strongly agree with their policies. however, i do not label them as bloodthirsty, rather i think that their perception is severely skewed to their own point of view - ie an american hero soldier dying is a great loss, while a mother dying in her home with her 5 children from a misdropped bomb is collateral damage. nor do i think americans are totalitarian - rather the opposite. i think that they are all about free trade and capitalism, under the condition that they come out on top (which was evidenced by the recent bid for china to buy an mid sized US oil company...free trade? someone tell taht to the senators freaking out that the chinese might actually USE some of teh dollars they have earned over the past 2 decades )

My point was, and still is, that you have no right to talk smack about men and women in uniform unless you have filled their shoes in harm's way, period. Now, I imagine that I can see the lightbulb, albeit a dim one, coming on in your head right now. Then again, that may be too much to hope for.

yes, i know what your point is, and again, i say that my having 'filled those shoes' is irrellevent. the only thing that counts is the weight of my argument. thats all that EVER counts. would you disregard the opinion of someone who was right about something simply because they had not done it before? its taht sort of blind faith that allows atrocities like the war on terror to be committed in your name. critical analysis is the best thing taht could happen to a country.

oh and in case you didnt notice - i dont talk smack about service members - only about the people who misuse their patriotism by sending them across the world, to kill and to die, for nothing.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

And thus continues the eternal saga of the average looking 75th mercilessly defeating the extremely handsome goldendelicious.

Pardon me whilst I take a deep breath......

yeah well this 'defeating' business is taking an eternity. props to you for hammering at it though keep trying bor and dont be too hard on yourself for being average. its not your fault

Lets take this point-by point:

yes lets. even though you left some of my points out

WMDs: We dont even have to go over this one too much. Shitty excuse for a shitty war. Whether or not they exist, however, is still up in the air (believe it or not).

now hang on, why should we gloss over this one? you dont just gloss over one of the biggest whoppers ever told in modern day media warfare, just because its old news. people died because of this wepons of mass destruction bullshit. it was an example of your administration fixing the 'facts' around their preconceived policy. that in itself is enough to end the argument right here - its absolute moral bankruptcy for Gods sake! its a slap in the face of the weapons inspectors who were sent around looking form something that didnt exist - for the sodliers dying while protecting the poele looking for them - for the politicians who werent in on the scam, who were frantically trying to justify their governemtns postion - for the families torn apart by distance, while their loved ones went to do their pointless duty - for the ameican taxpayers at home, who lost funding for schools, health, research, and other things taht were actually constructive in bettering their lives, and the iraqis, suffocated by sanctions, who lost dignity while a farce was perpetrated in their faces as a leadup to invasion.

dont bloody gloss over this one, 75. heads whould have rolled for this. (oh wait. they did. innocent ones, and not metaphorically, either)

bin Laden: What about him? The fact that his global network he spent over a decade building has been, for the most part, completely ruined?

completely ruined? you mean like the hydra, which sprouted 3 heads when you cut one off? a few years ago al quaida was one extremist group on the other side of the world, with a couple of fanatics patrolling the mountains with an ak47, and a scattering of tents with goat shit sprinkled around them. these days there is al-quaida, al-quaida in iraq, al-quaida in pakistan.....as well as another few hundred jihadi organisations taht sympathise with them and operate similarly. bin ladens network isnt torn apart or ruined - its stronger. after all, bush et al have given them thousands of new recruits in the form of dispossessed/vengeful iraqis, have validated the previous assertions of bin laden as per americas evil intent, have gifted tehm with wonderful live fire training camps in the form of, oh, every iraqi city, and they have exulted osama bin laden to a position where he rivals george bush in fame. torn apart? please, that shit is blowing up in everyones face. (pun intended )

The fact that since Bush has been in office, there has been only 1 attack against the US, whereas under Clinton there were a dozen? Im not sure exactly what you want to discuss, so be more specific.

oh, you mean that there has only been one terrorist attack on US soil. well, i mean, id hate to get all techy on you but...why the hell would any jihadi try to attack americans in america when there are 130000 troops right there on their doorstep ready to be picked off? 44 american marines have died in the last 10 days, 75th. 1800 in combat total. about 25000 severely wounded (ie incapacitated. look at poor needtogetas, for example. that mofo cant spell. this christmas he'll probably sign his kids christmas card "from satan" by accident, the poor bastard)

there are lots and lots and lots and lots of attacks on americans these days, 75th. how you tally them is up to you, but it doesnt change the truth.

Association between Saddam and bin Laden "that wasnt:" Debunks your entire argument from now to eternity. Proven beyond a reasonable doubt, even published in sources you would agree with; NYT, AP, Reuters, etc that there indeed WAS a collaboration between Saddam and bin Laden. A working relationship towards a common goal; the destruction of Israel and conversion of the Western world. I think youre confusing this point with....

really? link me or back up what you just said (just to make you run around, you bastard ) but apart from that, a working relationship does not justify full scale invasion. i mean, we're talking about countries and wars ehre, this isnt a matter of simple, individual justice! even if you are right, and saddam was in bin ladens pocket (he wasnt) it takes nothing away from the statement that invading iraq was wrong.

Saddam and 9/11: No evidence that supports such a claim. I assume that was your point.

yes, that was my point, and yet, such insinuations were made by your administration in order to foster fear, and justify the war.

The UN not sanctioning the war: Please go into detail explaining how this war was "illegal." 10 bucks says you cant, because through mandates and resolutions, we did have authority through the United Nations. If not for Saddam constantly breaking the cease-fire during the '90s, then for the resolutions that were passed in the '00s as well.

oh bullshit. the US trashed the UN when it decided to go to war on such a short timeframe. the UN weapons inspectors declared that there were no weapons in iraq. the US was scrambling to justify its position on iraq, even going so low as to say that gulf war 1 had not been declared over, and so technically, the US was still at war and could do what it wanted. at the end of the day, the decision had been made, and the US was going in whether anyone was coming or not.

the UN was shredded as a credible organisation after that.

Americans questioning the war: I dont call anybody unpatriotic for questioning the war or Bush. I call people assholes for insulting and/or not supporting the troops. Many here fail to see the distinction.

well then, what do you call the guy who lies to the troops, telling them that they were putting themselves in harms way to go and protect america, when really they were being fed into the meat grinder for the sake of american imperialism, and a largely jewish agenda?

i support troops in that i think it is good that they are doing their duty, which is to do what the administration tells them, and to do a good job of it. however, if the mission was bullshit in the first place, do i honor them, their families, or their lost comerades by leaving them in place to continue suffering, and dying pointlessly? ill continue to support troops - hell, my town thrives because of them - but id rather support them HERE, as members of teh DEFENSE force, not as members of the imperial army of his majesty george bush, holding the scepter of halliburton.

Shock and Awe killing blah blah blah: Blind emotion = biggest sign of weak argument. "Oh god, think of the children!" If you want to debate the facts (or theories in many cases you bring up) then debate them. Its a war, sometimes civilians die. Anybody who suggests that our troops have NOT placed themselves in greater danger by protecting Iraqi civilians needs their heads examined.

well, for a start, "shock and awe" was a war crime. you dont go dropping great big bombs in the middle of civilian populations.

furthermore, i dont give a shit what your soldiers have suffered as compared to ordinary iraqis (though i deplore all of their sufferings) because the fact is, members of your military signed up for it, and had an option not to be there. the ordinary iraqis sitting in their ancestral homes, on the other hand, did not have such a choice, and as such, being collateral damage in a war of choice at the hands of americans who were supposedly there to help protect them is a tad bloody unjust no matter which bloody way you turn it, dont you think?

Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay: "Im not outraged by the actions at Abu Ghraib. Im outraged by the outrage" - Senator whose name I cannot remember.
If you consider urinating on a Koran as torture, I sincerely hope you are never captured during a war. You are in for a big surprise.

well, would you be outraged if you were snatched up from the countryside by the USA who kept you in prison for 3 years without charges, trial, or communications from your loved ones? i think i would. and i dont give a shit about pissing on korans, i think that being held unjustly, even though a US judge has said taht it is illegal, is crime enough. if i were to kidnap you or your wife, lock you up in a cupbord and feed you every day and NOT fuck you in the ass, does the idea taht i could have done much, much worse somehow make everything alright?

how demented must you be to subscribe to such thinking?

Bush winning two elections: Are you complaining that Bush won? Or that Gore dragged the country through an illegal supreme court fiasco? Or that Bush won the 2nd time around despite everything thrown at him except the kitchen sink? Elaborate.

frankly i think that the second election was rigged.

As for what I assume was the point of your rant...I dont see why we should use a more effective killing tool when at the same time we are placing more and more of our soldiers in harms way by restraining their effectiveness because of bullshit PC pressure. There are much more effecient ways of doing this that would have resulted in less than 1/4 of the US AND Iraqi civilian casualties that we have endured up to this point.

i can think of an even better way than that, that would have resulted in a 100% lower casualty rate - NOT GOING ON THIS BOGUS IMPERIAL MISSION IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE.

ahem. sorry, was that loud? was that a bit too common sensical for you? are you upset that it kind of avoided the thrust of your statement completely, while the carpet was ripped out from under you, planting your face into the ground?

In short, our self-imposed weakness is the problem.

i think your arrogance, hubris, and denial is a bigger problem.

and to top it all off, you used depleted uranium to do it, you bad, bad people. (thats another war crime, by the way. just so you know )

 

[GoldenDelicious]

hurry up and reply, 75th! you arent...gasp...SLEEPING are you?! i mean, it isnt even 6pm yet! its still the middle of the day!

you arent running from pwnage are you?

cant you reply to a simple post?

what are you doing, prettying yourself up/going out/trying to look good or something?

lol i am sooo high on caffiene

 

[~Lexy~]

Cool thread.

 

[mountain muscle]

GD,

If you are so offended by this war, why were you not offended and outspoken about Saddam's actions during his rule? He and his sadistic regime account for about 1.5 million deaths. But I have never seen you speak out against him and his regime. Just curious why the USA is so bad in this conflict and it is okay for him to do far worse than you can imagine during his lengthy rule, yet not a peep from you.

 

[ziggyziggy]

Nice attempt at twisting my words. You were wrong. The fact that you feel the need to defend yourself and motives to such length is ample evidence of such, to myself and others. You really made no point in your response to me, other than you are a liar. No Australian SAS trooper has been killed or wounded in Iraq. How does that crow taste now?

Zig

75th: before you say anything, shush. getting to it. ()

no, my remarks were not. i freely admitted that my remarks were designed to reciprocate the feelings of indignation and irritation i myself experienced when medicj acted out of line. if that response was my natural reply, then i might agree with you, but in this case, it was simply something done by design to press a button. and so your analogy did not go over my wonderful head, its just that i chose to ignore it because it was not pertinent

not only arent you my shrink, but you arent a shrink at all. which fits in with your 'analyses'.

furthermore, i did not 'taunt' anyone with death and mayhem, since a better example of that would be, say, to say that i hoped someone died etc. what i did do was use something in her personal history to add an edge to an otherwise fair enough remark, though i didnt think that the knee jerk pro american respone you get around here would extend to defending someone from something that didnt happen. i hate to break it to you, but talking about injury isnt taboo, nor is it taunting.

not bad for someone that isnt a shrink! well, not really. what i tap into this forum is FAR from what you need to know about me, since most of what i type here is flippant, and is designed to entertain. furthermore, i do not enjoy kicking people while theyre down - could you give me an example of where i have done that? or are you implying that my constant highlighting of the shortfalls in US policy equate to kicking people while they are down, since you realise that im right about your president, your administration, and your war?

if you cant see that im the sort to go toe to toe against someone, rather than kick them while theyre down, then what can i say...your perception is a tad askew

really? like the ones who were hospitalised in the veterans hospital i worked in, who were calling george bush a fucking useless cunt, who was starting shit that he didnt have to fight, that he was a bought and paid for man, that he should be shot to avoid the upcoming war? you mean, THOSE sas troops?

whether or not western military personell of today are fighting for my 'rights' and 'freedoms' depend on your political slant. if you believe all that bullshit george bush said, then sure, theyre fighting for my freedom. personally though, i think theyre fighting for a lie, in a failing ploy designed to line the pockets of various american industrialists.

when do i taunt the families of the dead? when do i jerk off to the response to my comments? in the very post i made to medicj that started it all i said that the administration of teh day is 'misusing worthy and noble people, like your partner' - how is that in any way derogatory? she was innapropriate, i replied in a calculated way, and it achieved the desired effect.

correllating anonymous comments on an anonymous board with manhood is stupid, as is your statement that i clearly have no testicles. that is ridiculous, though i am a reasonable guy - my testicles are available for inspection by any good looking family members you might have and also, i do not enjoy hurting people emotionally - sure, i can enjoy the exchange of dialogue/insults/scat pictures with like minded people (eg 75th, who admitted to me in a PM that he just clowning around, and that he actually agrees that george bush is a bit of a wanker, and that he thinks that i am a funny guy) (well ok im lying ) but in the case of the mental defectives on this site, i jump in for a quick tweak and out again. if i were a psychopath, let me assure you, my statements would be a good deal more cutting than they are.

when i talk about 'americans' generally im speaking of your administration and those who strongly agree with their policies. however, i do not label them as bloodthirsty, rather i think that their perception is severely skewed to their own point of view - ie an american hero soldier dying is a great loss, while a mother dying in her home with her 5 children from a misdropped bomb is collateral damage. nor do i think americans are totalitarian - rather the opposite. i think that they are all about free trade and capitalism, under the condition that they come out on top (which was evidenced by the recent bid for china to buy an mid sized US oil company...free trade? someone tell taht to the senators freaking out that the chinese might actually USE some of teh dollars they have earned over the past 2 decades )

yes, i know what your point is, and again, i say that my having 'filled those shoes' is irrellevent. the only thing that counts is the weight of my argument. thats all that EVER counts. would you disregard the opinion of someone who was right about something simply because they had not done it before? its taht sort of blind faith that allows atrocities like the war on terror to be committed in your name. critical analysis is the best thing taht could happen to a country.

oh and in case you didnt notice - i dont talk smack about service members - only about the people who misuse their patriotism by sending them across the world, to kill and to die, for nothing.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Nice attempt at twisting my words. You were wrong. The fact that you feel the need to defend yourself and motives to such length is ample evidence of such, to myself and others. You really made no point in your response to me, other than you are a liar. No Australian SAS trooper has been killed or wounded in Iraq. How does that crow taste now?

Zig

well, given that the hospital i was at is a verterans hospital, which means that it is used by all veterans, of all ages, from all wars, and not just for those wounded in whatever conflict is on at the time, and there were diggers there along with sailors and airmen, id say that the crow is tasting pretty good.

the quote that is stuck in my mind was from a guy with total incapacitation in the psych ward who said "those fucking cunts, theyre doing it again...theyve fucking guarinteed your job for the next 50 years"...and i suppose he was right. the conflict DID guarintee that hopital staying open for at least 50 years

so, since we're talking about the metaphoric culinary items of the moment, how is your foot tasting, zig?

 

[GoldenDelicious]

GD,

If you are so offended by this war, why were you not offended and outspoken about Saddam's actions during his rule? He and his sadistic regime account for about 1.5 million deaths. But I have never seen you speak out against him and his regime. Just curious why the USA is so bad in this conflict and it is okay for him to do far worse than you can imagine during his lengthy rule, yet not a peep from you.

i suppose its because saddams atrocities were not newsworthy, and so i didnt hear about them.

just like i dont know much about the dictators that exist in several ex-soviet satellites.

just like i dont know the particulars of the conflict raging throughout africa.

just like i dont know much of what is happening in kashmir

its about exposure, and also, about australias, or greece's, involvement. i know rather a lot about east timor and what the the indonesians were doing, that required an australian led UN force, and also about the specifics of what is happening in papua new guinea, since my government is involved.

im interested, adn conservative (even a bit isolationist) but im not omnipotent.

 

[ziggyziggy]

well, given that the hospital i was at is a verterans hospital, which means that it is used by all veterans, of all ages, from all wars, and not just for those wounded in whatever conflict is on at the time, and there were diggers there along with sailors and airmen, id say that the crow is tasting pretty good.

the quote that is stuck in my mind was from a guy with total incapacitation in the psych ward who said "those fucking cunts, theyre doing it again...theyve fucking guarinteed your job for the next 50 years"...and i suppose he was right. the conflict DID guarintee that hopital staying open for at least 50 years

so, since we're talking about the metaphoric culinary items of the moment, how is your foot tasting, zig?

Trying to weasel your way out from under my foot again? It really amazes me, the way that you seek to backtrack and reframe the context in which you make your comments. I made a very specific comment, to which you replied in a very specific fashion. I then call you out on it, and you seek to cower behind the facade of contextual reletivisim, adding exerpts from a conversation that had nothing to do with my original statement as a smokescreen. Are you going to blame your lack of integrity and honesty on the war too?

You have more in common with the poorer aspects of Bush, Blair and Howard than you think.

Zig

 

[Spartacus]

"that fuckin' golden delish"
"he's doing it again"

 

[JoseyWales]

Heres what you can do stop worrying about America/Americans
and go fuck yourself

no one gives a fuck what you pussies think anyway saying i support the troops but not the war...id much rather have the towel heads bombing aussie land than NY this way all you fucking faggots can make love and not war with them

 

[75th]

now hang on, why should we gloss over this one? you dont just gloss over one of the biggest whoppers ever told in modern day media warfare, just because its old news. people died because of this wepons of mass destruction bullshit. it was an example of your administration fixing the 'facts' around their preconceived policy. that in itself is enough to end the argument right here - its absolute moral bankruptcy for Gods sake! its a slap in the face of the weapons inspectors who were sent around looking form something that didnt exist - for the sodliers dying while protecting the poele looking for them - for the politicians who werent in on the scam, who were frantically trying to justify their governemtns postion - for the families torn apart by distance, while their loved ones went to do their pointless duty - for the ameican taxpayers at home, who lost funding for schools, health, research, and other things taht were actually constructive in bettering their lives, and the iraqis, suffocated by sanctions, who lost dignity while a farce was perpetrated in their faces as a leadup to invasion.

We shouldnt go into this one because only Bush and God know whether or not the administration believe there were WMDs. You are so set in your mindset that our entire admin created one big lie...of which there is no proof. Others would say it was faulty intel...of which there is no proof. I know youre a big fan of using heresay and conjecture in your arguments, but its a big ol' waste of time.

completely ruined? you mean like the hydra, which sprouted 3 heads when you cut one off? a few years ago al quaida was one extremist group on the other side of the world, with a couple of fanatics patrolling the mountains with an ak47, and a scattering of tents with goat shit sprinkled around them. these days there is al-quaida, al-quaida in iraq, al-quaida in pakistan.....as well as another few hundred jihadi organisations taht sympathise with them and operate similarly. bin ladens network isnt torn apart or ruined - its stronger. after all, bush et al have given them thousands of new recruits in the form of dispossessed/vengeful iraqis, have validated the previous assertions of bin laden as per americas evil intent, have gifted tehm with wonderful live fire training camps in the form of, oh, every iraqi city, and they have exulted osama bin laden to a position where he rivals george bush in fame. torn apart? please, that shit is blowing up in everyones face. (pun intended )

Just because you never heard of them doesnt mean they werent there. To believe so is irresponsible. If you read I believe Monday's New York Times (of course, they didnt bother to put it on the front page) there was a collection of writings from captured al-Qaeda operatives from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. Throughout all the writings there was one common theme: how much of a shitty situation they are in compared to before 9/11. They found it 10x more difficult to find recruits, housing, or even sympathetic citizens throughout the countries mentioned above.

One of the folks even wrote at length about how whenever he would travel to Pakistan (where he was eventually caught) people who knew who he was affiliated with would laugh at him while he walked down the street.

I know how much you would like it to be the opposite, but the world has gotten progressively safer in the months following 9/11.

oh, you mean that there has only been one terrorist attack on US soil. well, i mean, id hate to get all techy on you but...why the hell would any jihadi try to attack americans in america when there are 130000 troops right there on their doorstep ready to be picked off? 44 american marines have died in the last 10 days, 75th. 1800 in combat total. about 25000 severely wounded (ie incapacitated. look at poor needtogetas, for example. that mofo cant spell. this christmas he'll probably sign his kids christmas card "from satan" by accident, the poor bastard)

Terrorism doesnt target troops. Its right there in the definition.

So yes, I mean that there has been only 1 attack against US interests both at home and abroad.

there are lots and lots and lots and lots of attacks on americans these days, 75th. how you tally them is up to you, but it doesnt change the truth.

The truth of what?

really? link me or back up what you just said (just to make you run around, you bastard ) but apart from that, a working relationship does not justify full scale invasion. i mean, we're talking about countries and wars ehre, this isnt a matter of simple, individual justice! even if you are right, and saddam was in bin ladens pocket (he wasnt) it takes nothing away from the statement that invading iraq was wrong.

I never said it did warrant a full scale invasion. You said it wasnt true. I pointed out that it indeed was. Just another point against you.

oh bullshit. the US trashed the UN when it decided to go to war on such a short timeframe. the UN weapons inspectors declared that there were no weapons in iraq. the US was scrambling to justify its position on iraq, even going so low as to say that gulf war 1 had not been declared over, and so technically, the US was still at war and could do what it wanted. at the end of the day, the decision had been made, and the US was going in whether anyone was coming or not.

the UN was shredded as a credible organisation after that.

If you dont think the UN destroyed its own credibility on its own then this is going to be a long debate.

well then, what do you call the guy who lies to the troops, telling them that they were putting themselves in harms way to go and protect america, when really they were being fed into the meat grinder for the sake of american imperialism, and a largely jewish agenda?

Make up your mind. Is it an American agenda or an Israeli agenda?

i support troops in that i think it is good that they are doing their duty, which is to do what the administration tells them, and to do a good job of it. however, if the mission was bullshit in the first place, do i honor them, their families, or their lost comerades by leaving them in place to continue suffering, and dying pointlessly? ill continue to support troops - hell, my town thrives because of them - but id rather support them HERE, as members of teh DEFENSE force, not as members of the imperial army of his majesty george bush, holding the scepter of halliburton.

Ive always wondered if anyone can actually explain what halliburton did, and why it is wrong. Im beginning to think its just a typical knee-jerk reaction when one has no argument.

well, for a start, "shock and awe" was a war crime. you dont go dropping great big bombs in the middle of civilian populations.

We didnt.

furthermore, i dont give a shit what your soldiers have suffered as compared to ordinary iraqis (though i deplore all of their sufferings) because the fact is, members of your military signed up for it, and had an option not to be there. the ordinary iraqis sitting in their ancestral homes, on the other hand, did not have such a choice, and as such, being collateral damage in a war of choice at the hands of americans who were supposedly there to help protect them is a tad bloody unjust no matter which bloody way you turn it, dont you think?

Thats where we disagree. Also, Im sure you dont lose any sleep over the plight of a few Iraqis civlians who have unfortunately been caught up in this at the fault of their comrades who choose to use them as human shields.

frankly i think that the second election was rigged.

I figured you did. Even though the entire US didnt.

ahem. sorry, was that loud? was that a bit too common sensical for you? are you upset that it kind of avoided the thrust of your statement completely, while the carpet was ripped out from under you, planting your face into the ground?

Never in the history of the world have you achieved such a thing.

i think your arrogance, hubris, and denial is a bigger problem.

Your blindedness is an even bigger problem.

 

[ziggyziggy]

GD, tell me you did not just blame this on the Jews. Now, you have become a true leftie in my eyes, as hatred of the Joooooooooooos is a must to be part of that club.

Zig

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

i suppose its because saddams atrocities were not newsworthy, and so i didnt hear about them.

Bingo.

I stayed off this thread because the entire discussion has been a tactical analysis of a strategic action.

Nice to see the discussion but it's piss in the wind on this thread because you're talking tactics. That's how most people think, whatever continent they're on.

Sit. Roll over.

Good dog.

 

[medicj]

Well, seems this has turned into a hyped discussion.
1st of all - it's a new day.
2nd - if I pissed anyone off, sorry. I usually talk with my mind instead of my emotions.I sometimes deviate from this when a person speaks about good men(especially mine) being injured or dying.Especially when he HAS NO IDEA about what he is saying because not only has he NEVER fought for this country but he has probably never even been to Iraq or America.How can he pass judgments about the men fighting, the men leading or the freedoms being fought over?
3rd - 75th, thanx for the G-bomb. I was sinking to a standard far below what I usually set for myself. I was allowing an idiot to get the best of me and I was spending 2much time trying to make sense of the senseless. U forced me to take the time I needed to calm down and regroup. Thanx for the G-bomb. I needed the time out, even though I know u bombed me for other reasons.
4th- Dear, GD. Wow. U really are a piece of work..... and scum. About my job - I see myself as a paramedic.Not a martyr.A martyr gives without recieving. I recieve. I feel blessed to have the chance to do my job. I would do it for free. When I do my job, I recieve more than I could ever give back.It's probably a concept far beyond your shallowness.As far as me being a FAT POTATO!!!????: In America, our fire/medics can't be fat. I couldn't be fat if I wanted to be. I'm 5'2''. I'm about 112 pounds.I would probably weigh less but I am required to be a little bit stronger than the average girl walking down the street. If at any point I could no longer pass our physical agility test at work --I wouldn't have a job. I promise u -- a FAT POTATO couldn't make it through half of our test.GD, every time u were given a chance to make a point u only took the chance to make yourself ridiculous.Not only with me but with everyone.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Trying to weasel your way out from under my foot again? It really amazes me, the way that you seek to backtrack and reframe the context in which you make your comments. I made a very specific comment, to which you replied in a very specific fashion. I then call you out on it, and you seek to cower behind the facade of contextual reletivisim, adding exerpts from a conversation that had nothing to do with my original statement as a smokescreen. Are you going to blame your lack of integrity and honesty on the war too?

mhm. contextual relitivism. aha. hm.

lol please zig, you thought that i was treating a member of the current batch of SAS troopers, called me out on it, and it blew up in your face now, youre a military guy, so youve probably seen that movie 'under seige' (i love that movie, especially the chick in the cake. anyway) what was it he said about assumptions?

You have more in common with the poorer aspects of Bush, Blair and Howard than you think.

yes, but i use my evil powers to do good

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Bingo.

I stayed off this thread because the entire discussion has been a tactical analysis of a strategic action.

Nice to see the discussion but it's piss in the wind on this thread because you're talking tactics. That's how most people think, whatever continent they're on.

Sit. Roll over.

Good dog.

matt, i bet you were a lot more fun back in the days when you used to steal girls toiletries

 

[GoldenDelicious]

4th- Dear, GD. Wow.

you know, a lot of chicks say that to me. usually when they see me naked. but anyway, please, go on..

U really are a piece of work.....

ooo they say that too!!

About my job - I see myself as a paramedic.Not a martyr.

and yet you portray yourself as a martyr when it suits you. "oh but i work 70 hours a week as a paramedic, im a good person, my opinion is important!" please. give it a rest.

A martyr gives without recieving. I recieve.

yeah well, i already said that your boyfriend was a good bloke. i dont see why you have to bring sex into the conversation though

I feel blessed to have the chance to do my job. I would do it for free. When I do my job, I recieve more than I could ever give back.

aaaaaaaaand this has what to do with the conversation, exactly?

did you know that i love scrambled eggs? if i could, id eat scrambled eggs all day. therefore, my opinion is important.

quick someone gimme 30 mgs morph, quick, quick!

It's probably a concept far beyond your shallowness.

hm, and this sentence is far beyond my ability to decipher horrible english...but im sure your point was a good one. in fact, im sure it would have floored me, and made me look silly.

As far as me being a FAT POTATO!!!????: In America, our fire/medics can't be fat. I couldn't be fat if I wanted to be. I'm 5'2''. I'm about 112 pounds.

so? you might have prosthetic legs. its perfectly possible youre a fat shit. so there. nyah nyah

I would probably weigh less but I am required to be a little bit stronger than the average girl walking down the street. If at any point I could no longer pass our physical agility test at work --I wouldn't have a job. I promise u -- a FAT POTATO couldn't make it through half of our test.

yeah right. i know how government departments are. at potatoes all look after each other. theres no way youd get fired

GD, every time u were given a chance to make a point u only took the chance to make yourself ridiculous.Not only with me but with everyone.

i love acting ridiculous. its quite a lot of fun. i mean, what did you expect - that i take you SERIOUSLY after your previous post? loooool.

sorry, not interested. since this thread has turned into a big steaming pile of depleted bullshit, i figure...what the hell. lets bugger around a bit

75th, ill get to you when i wake up, you carpet muncher you

 

[75th]

75th, ill get to you when i wake up, you carpet muncher you

Vulgarity and homosexual innuendos have no place on this board.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Vulgarity and homosexual innuendos have no place on this board.

ummmmm refer to previous post...faceplant.....carpet.....never in the history of....ah never mind

 

[foreigngirl]

you know, a lot of chicks say that to me. usually when they see me naked. but anyway, please, go on..

ooo they say that too!!

and yet you portray yourself as a martyr when it suits you. "oh but i work 70 hours a week as a paramedic, im a good person, my opinion is important!" please. give it a rest.

yeah well, i already said that your boyfriend was a good bloke. i dont see why you have to bring sex into the conversation though

aaaaaaaaand this has what to do with the conversation, exactly?

did you know that i love scrambled eggs? if i could, id eat scrambled eggs all day. therefore, my opinion is important.

quick someone gimme 30 mgs morph, quick, quick!

hm, and this sentence is far beyond my ability to decipher horrible english...but im sure your point was a good one. in fact, im sure it would have floored me, and made me look silly.


so? you might have prosthetic legs. its perfectly possible youre a fat shit. so there. nyah nyah

yeah right. i know how government departments are. at potatoes all look after each other. theres no way youd get fired

i love acting ridiculous. its quite a lot of fun. i mean, what did you expect - that i take you SERIOUSLY after your previous post? loooool.

sorry, not interested. since this thread has turned into a big steaming pile of depleted bullshit, i figure...what the hell. lets bugger around a bit

75th, ill get to you when i wake up, you carpet muncher you

why did you dig into her so bad, maing? I still S'agapo

 

[GoldenDelicious]

why did you dig into her so bad, maing? I still S'agapo

i respond to rudeness with rudeness, except that im a bigger bastard.

and you should say "koma s'agapo", because s'agapo translated to "you i love" already. koma means "still". where the heck did you learn that?

 

[foreigngirl]

i respond to rudeness with rudeness, except that im a bigger bastard.

and you should say "koma s'agapo", because s'agapo translated to "you i love" already. koma means "still". where the heck did you learn that?

we do have contacts with greek people you know, we used to spend all our money in Greece shoping in Solun, vacationing on Tessaloniki....

 

[GoldenDelicious]

we do have contacts with greek people you know, we used to spend all our money in Greece shoping in Solun, vacationing on Tessaloniki....

and you felt strangely at home, didnt you?

 

[foreigngirl]

and you felt strangely at home, didnt you?

shut up you asswipe Weird hairy people around me

 

[GoldenDelicious]

shut up you asswipe Weird hairy people around me

the men were hot, admit it

 

[ziggyziggy]

mhm. contextual relitivism. aha. hm.

lol please zig, you thought that i was treating a member of the current batch of SAS troopers, called me out on it, and it blew up in your face now, youre a military guy, so youve probably seen that movie 'under seige' (i love that movie, especially the chick in the cake. anyway) what was it he said about assumptions?


yes, but i use my evil powers to do good

You didn't answer my question. You still blaming this on the Joooooooos?

Zig

 

[GoldenDelicious]

You didn't answer my question. You still blaming this on the Joooooooos?

Zig

theres an israeli element, sure

 

[ziggyziggy]

theres an israeli element, sure

OK, so I see you are one of the "The US always does Isreal's bidding" loonies. That answers a lot of questions.

Zig

 

[GoldenDelicious]

OK, so I see you are one of the "The US always does Isreal's bidding" loonies. That answers a lot of questions.

Zig

your misperception is your business.

the US does not do israels "bidding", but the US does factor israel into whatever they do in the middle east

 

[GoldenDelicious]

We shouldnt go into this one because only Bush and God know whether or not the administration believe there were WMDs. You are so set in your mindset that our entire admin created one big lie...of which there is no proof. Others would say it was faulty intel...of which there is no proof. I know youre a big fan of using heresay and conjecture in your arguments, but its a big ol' waste of time.

well i think that we should go into it (even though the depleted uranium issue is completely fubar, because no one wanted to step in and say what theyre all thinking, that using DI is great for saving american lives, and really, thats the most important thing)

my position on the war is simple - when you are the united states government, representative of 200 million people, with arguably the most powerful and well funded military in the world, an educated and sophisticated population, you should be a hell of a lot more accountable/transparent than the administration has been.

if you cant provide enough evidence to go to war in the first place, then taht in itself is enough "proof" that you dont need to bloody well go. and thats the long and short of the fucking thing.

Just because you never heard of them doesnt mean they werent there. To believe so is irresponsible. If you read I believe Monday's New York Times (of course, they didnt bother to put it on the front page) there was a collection of writings from captured al-Qaeda operatives from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. Throughout all the writings there was one common theme: how much of a shitty situation they are in compared to before 9/11. They found it 10x more difficult to find recruits, housing, or even sympathetic citizens throughout the countries mentioned above.

lets not overlook the simple fact that before the war, i had never heard of these people. now, after the war, i have

hell, here in australia we have muslim clerics refusing to call osama bin laden a bad man, because of the USs post 911 actions, which have affirmed what he has said about the US.

use a bit of common sense, for goodness sake. the london terrorists were "home grown", and supposedly spontaneously decided to martyr themselves because of what the US and britain are doing. do you really think that the inflammation wrought by the war is limited to those few people, and not pervading the entire world? come on!

One of the folks even wrote at length about how whenever he would travel to Pakistan (where he was eventually caught) people who knew who he was affiliated with would laugh at him while he walked down the street.

one guy is interviewed for a newspaper, another bunch of guys strap suicide belts on and kill themselves in the middle of a bunch of people. take a guess which of those i find to be more convincing.

I know how much you would like it to be the opposite, but the world has gotten progressively safer in the months following 9/11.

lol wear a T-shirt proclaiming that while you ride the tube in london, or go for a walk through baghdad wearing a cross and a tshirt with an american flag on it

Terrorism doesnt target troops. Its right there in the definition.

i find this a rather interesting statement, given that the US has declared war on "terror"

So yes, I mean that there has been only 1 attack against US interests both at home and abroad.

oh please, what a load of crap. your sophistry in this instance is sickening. it isnt a terrorist attack unless its against civilians? well alright then. iraq is pretty much a US vassal state now, is it not? (ally? LOL) well then, we should consider normal everyday iraqis to be the equal of any yank or brit walking down the street, or in some way, to be "american interests", yes? and you are fond of saying that many of them are being killed by the "insurgency", yes?

well then, we should suppose that those are terrorist attacks then, and we're getting what, one a day in the form of car bombs alone?

seems to me that your twisted logic just fell flat on its face.

The truth of what?

I never said it did warrant a full scale invasion. You said it wasnt true. I pointed out that it indeed was. Just another point against you.

and yet, here we are.

If you dont think the UN destroyed its own credibility on its own then this is going to be a long debate.

i think that the US being hellbent on war, riding roughshod on the UN verily shoved it over the edge, and certainly made it less useful as an organisation, which is tragic to many peoples who may have been helped by it.

Make up your mind. Is it an American agenda or an Israeli agenda?

only a fool would not concede that the israelis have considerable political and econimic clout in the US, as evidenced by many things, from the military "aid" given israel by the US, to US double standards as to nuclear capability in israel versus iran, to the disproportionate pressure (or lack thereof) applied to israel over its illegal occupations as compared to other regimes

Ive always wondered if anyone can actually explain what halliburton did, and why it is wrong. Im beginning to think its just a typical knee-jerk reaction when one has no argument.

i like the way you sidestep the real point of that paragraph and instead focus on the tiniest bit of symbolism that i used to round out the image

...but if you want to talk about halliburton, well, apart from being viewed in a negative light because of peoples natural distate for people/companies that profit from death, the important issues are the conflict of interest perceived by many, who think it innappropriate that the people involved in deciding to go to war were in some way connected to the very companies that would profit from it. then there is the issue of the contracts being given to halliburton et al without a normal tendering process (which of course, sets the scene for some serious rorting) and furthermore, the fact taht they overcharged the military to the tune of hundreds of millions for services never provided, or provided below standards, and to add weight to the conflict of interest perceived by the public, they were not punished.

We didnt.

you didnt what? drop big bombs in the middle fo crowded places? like the bunker buster dropped someplace where saddam and his sons were supposedly hiding, that i remember seeing a picture of? or the wedding that was bombed into oblivion? or are you trying to catch me out on a technicality and assert taht none fo teh big nasty ordinance was drpped on families during "shock and awe" itself, despite the fact that during that time, the crippling of basic services to the civilian population is directly attributable to the increase in death due to disease etc etc?

Thats where we disagree. Also, Im sure you dont lose any sleep over the plight of a few Iraqis civlians who have unfortunately been caught up in this at the fault of their comrades who choose to use them as human shields.

i think youre missing the point. the US instigated the war. there would be no need for human shields if the US wasnt there in the first place. and furthermore, id say the proportion of human shields is far lower than, say, next door nighbours etc etc.

i dont see that you have a point at all

I figured you did. Even though the entire US didnt.

i wouldnt say that whole US.

Never in the history of the world have you achieved such a thing.

never in the history of the world have you perceived it, you mean.

Your blindedness is an even bigger problem.

our not seeing htings eye to eye doesnt mean im blind, 75th.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

GD,

You just want grind an ax. This is evident when you switch topics from the US to the UK bombers to Australian clerics as it suits the ideology to which you currently subscribe. And you're a smart enough guy that people actually respond to it, thinking that a series of complete sentences = a cohesive argument.

Your ax-grinding probably derives from observng the world around you and your relative powerlessness to influence it. This is frustrating, so rather than attempt to undersand or get involved in any meaningful way, you decry those who are making changes. This becomes clear when you fail to offer any alternatives, nor do you bother to place the issues in any context other than which maximizes your ability to grind your ax.

This is well-understood, and prevalent in the states too. Most of the anti government stuff is not legitimate criticism, but expressions of powerlessness. The US's two party system is, sadly, an outgrowth of this: If you're not the party in power, you find/invent any reason to identify with the opposition.

The Internet has taken this anti-leader effect global. Your posts are not substantial, but are just a correctly punctuated cry for attention that you don't get from the ruling class back home. Find something constructive to do with yourself.

 

[redguru]

Sorry I missed this thread, was up visiting my parents in PA for three weeks. You do know that Depleted Uranium was used as a munition in the first Iraq war, correct? You also do know that a lot of data has been compiled in peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals relating to that use?

You also do know that not one of these peer-reviewed journal articles can link DU to any illness? Also that, even soldiers with embedded DU shrapnel since 1991 have shown no ill effects due to radiation sickness or kidney problems from uranium exposure or other heavy metal exposure?

Another strawman or red herring propped up by the environmental left to decry US tactics in the war on terror.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

GD,

You just want grind an ax. This is evident when you switch topics from the US to the UK bombers to Australian clerics as it suits the ideology to which you currently subscribe. And you're a smart enough guy that people actually respond to it, thinking that a series of complete sentences = a cohesive argument.

Your ax-grinding probably derives from observng the world around you and your relative powerlessness to influence it. This is frustrating, so rather than attempt to undersand or get involved in any meaningful way, you decry those who are making changes. This becomes clear when you fail to offer any alternatives, nor do you bother to place the issues in any context other than which maximizes your ability to grind your ax.

This is well-understood, and prevalent in the states too. Most of the anti government stuff is not legitimate criticism, but expressions of powerlessness. The US's two party system is, sadly, an outgrowth of this: If you're not the party in power, you find/invent any reason to identify with the opposition.

The Internet has taken this anti-leader effect global. Your posts are not substantial, but are just a correctly punctuated cry for attention that you don't get from the ruling class back home. Find something constructive to do with yourself.

matt, if you tapped all that out just to say that i like to stir shit, you should have just asked me, and i would have cackled and agreed with you

also, im not at all frustrated with the "ruling class" back home, because really i dont give a shit. if the ruling class concerned me, i would simply do what i had to do to join it.

as for being constructive, im in downtime. i refuse to do anything constructive during downtime . when you notice that im not around much, youll know ive switched gears

by the way, when you were stealing all those toiletries, did you notice any trends? did the prettier girls have the cheaper brands, or was it the otehr way round

 

[75th]

well i think that we should go into it (even though the depleted uranium issue is completely fubar, because no one wanted to step in and say what theyre all thinking, that using DI is great for saving american lives, and really, thats the most important thing)

Yes, in my mind it is the most important thing.

Im sure that in your mind, saving the life of an Aussie is more important than saving the life of an Iraqi.

lets not overlook the simple fact that before the war, i had never heard of these people. now, after the war, i have

Just because youre not well read is not my problem.

hell, here in australia we have muslim clerics refusing to call osama bin laden a bad man, because of the USs post 911 actions, which have affirmed what he has said about the US.

I dont think any sane person cares what some radical muslim cleric thinks. If we retaliated after 9/11, its because we are a zionist, imperialistic nation hell-bent on destroying Islam. If we didnt retaliate, its because Allah saw fit to protect the Muslim world, so feel free to suicide bomb whoever you want.

That logic doesnt sit well with me.

use a bit of common sense, for goodness sake. the london terrorists were "home grown", and supposedly spontaneously decided to martyr themselves because of what the US and britain are doing. do you really think that the inflammation wrought by the war is limited to those few people, and not pervading the entire world? come on!

You dont "spontaneously" decide to gang up with 5 other folks and blow yourselves up. Besides, it was the fake bombers who made some off the hand remark about the Iraq war. The bombers who ended up taking innocent lives made no statement at all.

one guy is interviewed for a newspaper, another bunch of guys strap suicide belts on and kill themselves in the middle of a bunch of people. take a guess which of those i find to be more convincing.

He was interviewed, he kept the writings in his private journal. Its shortsighted to only look at one of the two subjects. The writings of this person in particular, combined with the confessions and writings of other captured al-Qaeda operatives, gives insight into how their now decimated organization is doing.

lol wear a T-shirt proclaiming that while you ride the tube in london, or go for a walk through baghdad wearing a cross and a tshirt with an american flag on it

Believe it or not, I would rather walk in downtown Baghdad now compared to four years ago. And whether or not you want to admit it, you would too.

i find this a rather interesting statement, given that the US has declared war on "terror"

Is this supposed to be an argument? Im not sure how you cant understand that terrorism, by definition, is focused on civilian targets. The fact that we have decided to step up our actions against terrorist actions doesnt change that.

oh please, what a load of crap. your sophistry in this instance is sickening. it isnt a terrorist attack unless its against civilians? well alright then. iraq is pretty much a US vassal state now, is it not? (ally? LOL) well then, we should consider normal everyday iraqis to be the equal of any yank or brit walking down the street, or in some way, to be "american interests", yes? and you are fond of saying that many of them are being killed by the "insurgency", yes?

I dont use the word "insurgency." Its a combination of standard resistance by unhappy Iraqis (obviously a minority) and other anti-American/Israeli/Western elements from Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.

only a fool would not concede that the israelis have considerable political and econimic clout in the US, as evidenced by many things, from the military "aid" given israel by the US, to US double standards as to nuclear capability in israel versus iran, to the disproportionate pressure (or lack thereof) applied to israel over its illegal occupations as compared to other regimes

They do indeed, Ive never said anything to the contrary.

Eh, I dont understand how this got from DU weapons to what it is now. You argue in circles, man.

Why dont you and I agree to disagree...that is, until your next hot-air filled thread.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

matt, if you tapped all that out just to say that i like to stir shit, you should have just asked me, and i would have cackled and agreed with you

also, im not at all frustrated with the "ruling class" back home, because really i dont give a shit. if the ruling class concerned me, i would simply do what i had to do to join it.

as for being constructive, im in downtime. i refuse to do anything constructive during downtime . when you notice that im not around much, youll know ive switched gears

by the way, when you were stealing all those toiletries, did you notice any trends? did the prettier girls have the cheaper brands, or was it the otehr way round

You do seem somewhat caught up with the American ruling class. But if you're just here to start shit, let's turn our attention elsewhere.

When you say tolietries, you create a negative image. I prefer "skin and hair care products".

Looks had nothing to do with it, economics was the driving factor. Women, like men, buy what they can afford.

A friend of mine who is from a prominent NY real estate family has a separate bathroom just for all of her skin and hair care products. Whenever I stay over there I make sure to use them all, shampoo, conditioner, exfoliate, etc. By comparison, college girls lacking money had just the basics: shampoo, conditioner, Clinique and maybe some other stuff.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Yes, in my mind it is the most important thing.

so youre saying that protecting american soldiers is the most important thing, even in an unneccessary, illegul, unjustifiable war, where american servicemembers' presence alone is instigating the very retaliation that puts them in harms way, even when the price of protecting said illegal incursion is the commital of a moral, and war crime in the form of dispersing hundreds of tonnes of a radioactive material taht will poison the people and land for centuries?

wow. how dare those iraqis breathe american air in iraq?

Im sure that in your mind, saving the life of an Aussie is more important than saving the life of an Iraqi.

the difference between you and i is that i would save the aussie soldiers life by keeping them at home, and not sending them off to fight an unneccessary war for a reason no one seems to be able to come up with.

Just because youre not well read is not my problem.

nice pun, even though the obvious design of my previous statement was to illustrate the increased significance of islamic extremism by correllating my exposure to it through main news media, with its prevalence/significance in the world.

i have noticed that you often chastise others for their supposed lack of debating skill (something i have never claimed to have), and yet here you are, trying to make a sad joke out of an effective point.

I dont think any sane person cares what some radical muslim cleric thinks. If we retaliated after 9/11, its because we are a zionist, imperialistic nation hell-bent on destroying Islam. If we didnt retaliate, its because Allah saw fit to protect the Muslim world, so feel free to suicide bomb whoever you want.

That logic doesnt sit well with me.

a sane, logical person would see that the previously moderate, right thinking cleric has become radicalised, and ask themselves "why has this happened. what are the factors and influences that have instigated the change?" and through a logic examination of the issue at hand, will hopefully come to some sort of understanding of the root cause of the change.

i think that looking at domestic muslims is an excellent way to monitor the undercurrents coursing throughout the entire muslim world. thats not too hard to understand, is it? hm?

and further, who are you to say "If we didnt retaliate, its because Allah saw fit to protect the Muslim world, so feel free to suicide bomb whoever you want." are you an expert in middle eastern culture? what makes you think you understand these people well enough to make a statement like that? good thing youre not presumptuous!

You dont "spontaneously" decide to gang up with 5 other folks and blow yourselves up.

exactly. so then, for your next mental exercise, have a think about why they might feel compelled to end their lives.

He was interviewed, he kept the writings in his private journal. Its shortsighted to only look at one of the two subjects. The writings of this person in particular, combined with the confessions and writings of other captured al-Qaeda operatives, gives insight into how their now decimated organization is doing.

really? and who filtered this information? were tehy without ulterior motive?

and besides, a journal from some captured guy who was willing to confess, versus the steady flow of people scattering their intestines all over the place in fiery explosion on a near daily basis isnt terribly persuasive, when we are talking about motivation

Believe it or not, I would rather walk in downtown Baghdad now compared to four years ago. And whether or not you want to admit it, you would too.

bullshit, i wouldnt set foot in that country if you paid me.

a few years ago i might have, why not? its not like people were going to kidnap me for ransom, or chop my head off in a snuff film to piss off john howard.

if youre willing to walk down a baghdad street at the moment wearing an american flag, you have a death wish

Is this supposed to be an argument? Im not sure how you cant understand that terrorism, by definition, is focused on civilian targets. The fact that we have decided to step up our actions against terrorist actions doesnt change that.

it isnt an argument in itself - i was just pointing out how perverse it is to argue that the daily bombing in iraq against americans in iraq is not a 'terrorist' act, and despite the massively increased incidence of such attacks, you suggest that people are safer (sickening use of categorisation), based on a literal rather than reality based interpretation of the data, when the incidents are happening under the very banner of a 'war on terror', which is itself undermined by the same arguments you are making to somehow discredit what i said earlier

its so absurd as to be laughable

I dont use the word "insurgency." Its a combination of standard resistance by unhappy Iraqis (obviously a minority)

excuse me? a minority? military estimates put the number at about 40 000. other estimates are 400 000. youre trying to say taht there are 40 000 - 400 000 iforeigners waging war in iraq, while a 'minority' of iraqis participates? ho-ly shit.

youre trying to say, to me, right now, that in a vendetta striken place like the middle east, where if you kill someone, their whole family will come running after you with an AK47, where you have invaded for no reason, and killed tens of thousands of civilians from the air, refuse to leave the country, been there for going on 2 years, bla bla bla, blablablabla, where practically everyone knows or is related to someone who has been killed or unjustly incarcerated, that youre going to have a 'minority' of 'unhappy' iraqis waging war against you?

75th are you mad?

They do indeed, Ive never said anything to the contrary.

well you wanted clarification. i clarified.

Eh, I dont understand how this got from DU weapons to what it is now. You argue in circles, man.

no, thats just me repeating myself

Why dont you and I agree to disagree...that is, until your next hot-air filled thread.

well if we agree to disagree, and you dont come into my thread, there wont be any hot air, will there

this post is dedicated to matthemoisturiserstealer

 

[GoldenDelicious]

You do seem somewhat caught up with the American ruling class. But if you're just here to start shit, let's turn our attention elsewhere.

When you say tolietries, you create a negative image. I prefer "skin and hair care products".

Looks had nothing to do with it, economics was the driving factor. Women, like men, buy what they can afford.

A friend of mine who is from a prominent NY real estate family has a separate bathroom just for all of her skin and hair care products. Whenever I stay over there I make sure to use them all, shampoo, conditioner, exfoliate, etc. By comparison, college girls lacking money had just the basics: shampoo, conditioner, Clinique and maybe some other stuff.

eh the yanks are the movers and the shakers at the moment. they generate lots of talking points

i humbly apologise for using the word 'toiletries' and perhaps giving my fellow EFers the image of you running out of the house with 4 rolls of toilet paper in your jocks its hardly the image youd like to put forth these days

oh and your friend totally has the right idea. if i werent so naturally good looking and didnt find toiletr...ahem "skin and hair care products" to be a total waste of my time adn energy, with no return on investment, id think about dedicating a room to them too

 

[75th]

so youre saying that protecting american soldiers is the most important thing, even in an unneccessary, illegul, unjustifiable war, where american servicemembers' presence alone is instigating the very retaliation that puts them in harms way, even when the price of protecting said illegal incursion is the commital of a moral, and war crime in the form of dispersing hundreds of tonnes of a radioactive material taht will poison the people and land for centuries?

Thats exactly what I said. Any honest person would agree that, in their minds, the lives of their fellow countrymen is more important than the lives of a Swede, a Fin, an Iraqi, anything. Theres no shame in that.

wow. how dare those iraqis breathe american air in iraq?

Way to take everything way out of context.

the difference between you and i is that i would save the aussie soldiers life by keeping them at home, and not sending them off to fight an unneccessary war for a reason no one seems to be able to come up with.

Cop out. Thats the one thing that annoys me about folks with no argument. You ask them a simple question like; "In the current situation, what would you do?" And they reply with; "I would go back 20 years and never have started this war!"

And besides, I wouldnt have sent anybody anywhere. I dont know how many times I have to remind you that although I fought in it, I never supported the war.

nice pun, even though the obvious design of my previous statement was to illustrate the increased significance of islamic extremism by correllating my exposure to it through main news media, with its prevalence/significance in the world.

If you gauge what is happening in the world by what is reported by the major media outlets, were in bad shape. Using that logic, I can safely say there is zero crime, whatsoever, in Australia, simply because I dont hear about any of it here in the US.

a sane, logical person would see that the previously moderate, right thinking cleric has become radicalised, and ask themselves "why has this happened. what are the factors and influences that have instigated the change?" and through a logic examination of the issue at hand, will hopefully come to some sort of understanding of the root cause of the change.

When did you say this was some previously "moderate, right thinking cleric?"

and further, who are you to say "If we didnt retaliate, its because Allah saw fit to protect the Muslim world, so feel free to suicide bomb whoever you want." are you an expert in middle eastern culture? what makes you think you understand these people well enough to make a statement like that? good thing youre not presumptuous!

I dont know, I have studied it. And had the chance to speak with a lot of folks firsthand during my tenure in Afghanistan and Iraq. Obviously Im not naive enough to think that this applies all across the board, but its still worth thinking about.

exactly. so then, for your next mental exercise, have a think about why they might feel compelled to end their lives.

Because they know nothing else than what we fed them by corrupt rulers dedicated to keep them contained in a 13th century way of thinking. Shit, even prominent Muslim clerics in the UK have come out and said, "Guys, its about time we join the 21st century."

That compells them...along with the promise of shagging a bunch of teenie-boppers after they die.

and besides, a journal from some captured guy who was willing to confess, versus the steady flow of people scattering their intestines all over the place in fiery explosion on a near daily basis isnt terribly persuasive, when we are talking about motivation

This guy was in charge of recruitment over 3 different countries. I would assume he knows a little bit more regarding the final details than some 16 year old who gets suckered into blowing themselves up with the promise of fresh poontang in the afterlife.

it isnt an argument in itself - i was just pointing out how perverse it is to argue that the daily bombing in iraq against americans in iraq is not a 'terrorist' act, and despite the massively increased incidence of such attacks, you suggest that people are safer (sickening use of categorisation), based on a literal rather than reality based interpretation of the data, when the incidents are happening under the very banner of a 'war on terror', which is itself undermined by the same arguments you are making to somehow discredit what i said earlier

"Massively increased incidence?" LOL you should really think before you type. Compare the number of attacks on US troops over the past 6 months with the attacks during the 6 months prior.

excuse me? a minority? military estimates put the number at about 40 000. other estimates are 400 000. youre trying to say taht there are 40 000 - 400 000 iforeigners waging war in iraq, while a 'minority' of iraqis participates? ho-ly shit.

Yes, believe it or not a minority of Iraqi civilians support the resistance. Just look at any of the recent polls. Or the fact that the recent elections were a dramatic success.

And I hate to break it to you, but 40,000 people out of 50,000,000 is indeed a minority. And a big part of the 40,000 is made up from folks filtering into Iraq from neighboring countries.

75th are you mad?

Theres a fine line between genious and madness.

well if we agree to disagree, and you dont come into my thread, there wont be any hot air, will there

Touche.

 

[Lestat]

Godel:

that last al queda tape had a masked gunman speaking with an austrailian accent!

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Godel:

that last al queda tape had a masked gunman speaking with an austrailian accent!

so? you can get satellite TV in those mountains. some clever jihadi has been watching Nieghbours and Crocodile Dundee. cheeky scamming mofos

 

[Lestat]

so? you can get satellite TV in those mountains. some clever jihadi has been watching Nieghbours and Crocodile Dundee. cheeky scamming mofos

what you could see of the dude's skin looked white bro

 

[GoldenDelicious]

what you could see of the dude's skin looked white bro

make up. has to be make up

 

[jackangel]

some of you are unjustly maligning gd by leveling dubious characterizations.

of course, he does have his axe to grind and his fools to taunt, but he's not as bad as you all think.