All Guts and Glory - My First Test Cycle

[Wildebeest]

No offense Bro, but 22% is fat. Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it.

The effects of the T-3 and albuterol will not even be noticed with the amount of fat you have on you now. Your remark about it not working for me made me laugh out loud.

Your best bet is to stick with what you know works: your diet and exercise. Taking hormones and research chemicals without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet, will leave you with sub par results.

Ok, I get that you're trying to do the right thing as far as you know. But are you basing this on your own personal knowledge or science? I'm being stubborn, yes, but only because you have been all over my thread but have yet to refute any of my points with any degree of science or reason.

"Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it."
How would this happen on a calorie deficit? I'm not looking to gain muscle - and at 2400 calories, I doubt that's going to happen. I'm looking to prevent muscle loss!

"The effects of the T-3 will not be noticed"
An increase in metabolic rate is an increase in metabolic rate. The speculated increase in metabolic rate of Albuterol/T3 is 10% of BMR. I'm pretty sure that's arbitrary, but I'll give you that and admit that's not a whole lot and I can understand why you'd think it's useless.

But then you must realise, this is is EXPONENTIALLY increased with exercise. And therefore, with significant daily cardio and resistance training, there should be a significant increase in calorie output on the stack.

Then you couple that with the synergistic beta-2 activation that it has with Albuterol and one can expect that much more adipose tissue is going to be broken up into free-fatty acids and available to be used as a fuel source.

The test base, nutrient partioning effects of t3 and high protein intake should prevent muscle from being used as an energy source (or at least greatly minimise the occurence of that). Moreover, I eat the majority of my calories around my workout period so nutrient timing to promote anabolism (or at least anti-catabolism) should be sound.

So if diet+exercise was going to work anyway, diet+exercise+t3+alb+test should work a hell of a lot better since the calorie deficit that would've burned muscle and fat will significantly more fat and significantly less muscle. If I keep a calorie deficit of about 5000 cals a week, that should translate to 18 lbs of fat lost over 12 weeks, and hopefully barely any muscle, which will bring me to my target 13%.

"Without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet"
I have state and national rugby, boxing and jiu jitsu awards. I've got a fair knowledge of diet and exercise. No one ever told me I needed a six-pack to be an athlete. I wasn't a 286lbs dickhead eating potato chips and jacking off to Burger King ads all day.

I'm sure the cycle itself is solid. If anything, I'm worried that cals and carbs may be too low and I risk overtraining. So maybe now you can give me some SCIENTIFIC REASONING and show me that you actually know your shit.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but if all you have is snotty broscience, please go sucker some other fat dude.

 

[lander2312]

Wow this has turned into an interesting thread! I think your both right, your just coming from 2schools of thought. Svp is right in telling you that you will not see optimal tesults from anything until your at the 15%bf mark and he is telling you that you can do that naturally. Save the chems till you get to the point that you need them to take your body to the next level.

You are right in the fact that no matter when you take this cycle your body will respond better than without test and chems. Its just basic science weither your 30%bf of 10%bf your body will do more on cycle. Hell drs prescribe test to obese patients to aid in fat loss. My only advice is to try and look at the post on here (this whole site, well except c&c, ) as people taking time out of their day to help you. Good luck and please post results so we know how your doing.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness

 

[dylangemelli]

Ok, I get that you're trying to do the right thing as far as you know. But are you basing this on your own personal knowledge or science? I'm being stubborn, yes, but only because you have been all over my thread but have yet to refute any of my points with any degree of science or reason.

"Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it."
How would this happen on a calorie deficit? I'm not looking to gain muscle - and at 2400 calories, I doubt that's going to happen. I'm looking to prevent muscle loss!

"The effects of the T-3 will not be noticed"
An increase in metabolic rate is an increase in metabolic rate. The speculated increase in metabolic rate of Albuterol/T3 is 10% of BMR. I'm pretty sure that's arbitrary, but I'll give you that and admit that's not a whole lot and I can understand why you'd think it's useless.

But then you must realise, this is is EXPONENTIALLY increased with exercise. And therefore, with significant daily cardio and resistance training, there should be a significant increase in calorie output on the stack.

Then you couple that with the synergistic beta-2 activation that it has with Albuterol and one can expect that much more adipose tissue is going to be broken up into free-fatty acids and available to be used as a fuel source.

The test base, nutrient partioning effects of t3 and high protein intake should prevent muscle from being used as an energy source (or at least greatly minimise the occurence of that). Moreover, I eat the majority of my calories around my workout period so nutrient timing to promote anabolism (or at least anti-catabolism) should be sound.

So if diet+exercise was going to work anyway, diet+exercise+t3+alb+test should work a hell of a lot better since the calorie deficit that would've burned muscle and fat will significantly more fat and significantly less muscle. If I keep a calorie deficit of about 5000 cals a week, that should translate to 18 lbs of fat lost over 12 weeks, and hopefully barely any muscle, which will bring me to my target 13%.

"Without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet"
I have state and national rugby, boxing and jiu jitsu awards. I've got a fair knowledge of diet and exercise. No one ever told me I needed a six-pack to be an athlete. I wasn't a 286lbs dickhead eating potato chips and jacking off to Burger King ads all day.

I'm sure the cycle itself is solid. If anything, I'm worried that cals and carbs may be too low and I risk overtraining. So maybe now you can give me some SCIENTIFIC REASONING and show me that you actually know your shit.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but if all you have is snotty broscience, please go sucker some other fat dude.

There are so many things wrong here...

test is going to bloat you no matter what your deficit is... that's what test does... now different tests will have more or less and if an ai is going to help with this but you "doubt this is going to happen" is not accurate, at all...

you might drop some weight here but the true effects of t3 and albuterol will not be noticed as they would if your body fat was lower... your body fat is too high... you absolutely should not be running test on that high of body fat... you can spend all week looking around and your not going to find anyone that recommends you run test with 22%... if you do find someone that does, it will be a rare occurrence...

you have all these "calculations" but have you ever personally ran this stack?? have you had these results before?? fuck i can calculate based on others that something will do whatever i figure and have the complete opposite effect... calculations don't mean shit... output does... true results do...

i mean the fact that you continually keep going back to nolva for your pct, even after everyone is telling you how shitty it is says enough...

i think you have some brain here and could do some nice things but you are too stubborn in your ways... we all are but if you can't adapt to change, you will never achieve your full capabilities... i've had to change so many things i didn't want to, but fuck, it worked... in all facets of life...

your going to do what you want to do and thats fine but you have been given good advice from well respected people... if you don't want it, thats cool, but then don't ask... because unfortunately, we all have to hear shit we don't want to hear at times but that makes us better...

good luck to you...

 

[TheSVPdeal]

There are so many things wrong here...

test is going to bloat you no matter what your deficit is... that's what test does... now different tests will have more or less and if an ai is going to help with this but you "doubt this is going to happen" is not accurate, at all...

you might drop some weight here but the true effects of t3 and albuterol will not be noticed as they would if your body fat was lower... your body fat is too high... you absolutely should not be running test on that high of body fat... you can spend all week looking around and your not going to find anyone that recommends you run test with 22%... if you do find someone that does, it will be a rare occurrence...

you have all these "calculations" but have you ever personally ran this stack?? have you had these results before?? fuck i can calculate based on others that something will do whatever i figure and have the complete opposite effect... calculations don't mean shit... output does... true results do...

i mean the fact that you continually keep going back to nolva for your pct, even after everyone is telling you how shitty it is says enough...

i think you have some brain here and could do some nice things but you are too stubborn in your ways... we all are but if you can't adapt to change, you will never achieve your full capabilities... i've had to change so many things i didn't want to, but fuck, it worked... in all facets of life...

your going to do what you want to do and thats fine but you have been given good advice from well respected people... if you don't want it, thats cool, but then don't ask... because unfortunately, we all have to hear shit we don't want to hear at times but that makes us better...

good luck to you...

This guy doesn't want advice. He wants validation. Wrong forum for that bullshit.

Test causes water retention, all test, especially cyp and eth. Fact... And experience. You will be bigger and bloated. It's pointless running test on a calorie deficit. Test is not going to turn your fat into muscle. Only magic can do that.

I don't know what makes you think that T-3 and albuterol will increase your ANYTHING by 10%. Where did you get that bunch of shit? It's gonna be a waste of money for you. The results are small no matter how much of it you take. Not only do I have experience with this but so do a lot of others on this forum including RADAR, who agreed with me. Talking about your beta-2s won't burn calories but fasted cardio will.

Nolvadex was designed to treat breast cancer, not recover your HPTA. It doesn't do a fucking thing for your recovery. More fact.

You posted this thread giving the perception to others that you wanted help. I have given it to you. I don't have to prove why my advice is sound. Go research it to learn why on your own. It's not what you wanted to hear or delivered the way you wanted it; your problem.

Power lifters juice in the 20 percentile of body fat too. That's not what you want to look like though.

Your 12 posts have added nothing of value to the site so far but you question others that have. Plenty of people have looked at this thread and the only reason that you are not getting a huge response I'd because there is nothing else to say or add.

C'mon son, get with the program.

 

[dylangemelli]

this guy doesn't want advice. He wants validation. Wrong forum for that bullshit.

Test causes water retention, all test, especially cyp and eth. Fact... And experience. You will be bigger and bloated. It's pointless running test on a calorie deficit. Test is not going to turn your fat into muscle. Only magic can do that.

I don't know what makes you think that t-3 and albuterol will increase your anything by 10%. Where did you get that bunch of shit? It's gonna be a waste of money for you. The results are small no matter how much of it you take. Not only do i have experience with this but so do a lot of others on this forum including radar, who agreed with me. Talking about your beta-2s won't burn calories but fasted cardio will.

Nolvadex was designed to treat breast cancer, not recover your hpta. It doesn't do a fucking thing for your recovery. More fact.

You posted this thread giving the perception to others that you wanted help. I have given it to you. I don't have to prove why my advice is sound. Go research it to learn why on your own. It's not what you wanted to hear or delivered the way you wanted it; your problem.

Power lifters juice in the 20 percentile of body fat too. That's not what you want to look like though.

Your 12 posts have added nothing of value to the site so far but you question others that have. Plenty of people have looked at this thread and the only reason that you are not getting a huge response i'd because there is nothing else to say or add.

C'mon son, get with the program.

bam!!

 

[SWOLNUTZ]

searay and swolnutz: Thanks for the good words and input. I'll re-work my PCT and post it up again later today. swolnutz, I'm aware my carbs are a bit on the low side. Is there virtue in upping them daily or should I just do a carby re-feed one meal a week if I'm feeling too weak?quote]

Yeah I like the idea of the one meal re-feed, because you can reward yourself for dieting all week. Also, if you put it in the middle of the week when you're working out, you can give your lifting a little boost from the extra carb intake.

 

[Wildebeest]

There are so many things wrong here...

test is going to bloat you no matter what your deficit is... that's what test does... now different tests will have more or less and if an ai is going to help with this but you "doubt this is going to happen" is not accurate, at all...

you might drop some weight here but the true effects of t3 and albuterol will not be noticed as they would if your body fat was lower... your body fat is too high... you absolutely should not be running test on that high of body fat... you can spend all week looking around and your not going to find anyone that recommends you run test with 22%... if you do find someone that does, it will be a rare occurrence...

you have all these "calculations" but have you ever personally ran this stack?? have you had these results before?? fuck i can calculate based on others that something will do whatever i figure and have the complete opposite effect... calculations don't mean shit... output does... true results do...

i mean the fact that you continually keep going back to nolva for your pct, even after everyone is telling you how shitty it is says enough...

i think you have some brain here and could do some nice things but you are too stubborn in your ways... we all are but if you can't adapt to change, you will never achieve your full capabilities... i've had to change so many things i didn't want to, but fuck, it worked... in all facets of life...

your going to do what you want to do and thats fine but you have been given good advice from well respected people... if you don't want it, thats cool, but then don't ask... because unfortunately, we all have to hear shit we don't want to hear at times but that makes us better...

good luck to you...

Muscle gain may bring fat is what I was contesting, not the bloat.

I have spent 3 months looking around for the best way to do an intensive cut, and came to the conclusion that running this cycle would be *relatively* safe. I've drawn my conclusions based on a lot of sources, not just EF, and not just forums for that matter. I get the sense that you might not have been fat before, and therefore have no idea whether this may or may not work. I've seen results from people in similar cases and I'm going off their reference experiences.

Have I calculated this stuff? No. As I said, I'm sure it's arbitrary. Dictionary.com will tell you that you and I are saying the exact same thing.

Will I do more research into Nolva post-cycle? Yes. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, everyone who did. But this site seems to be heavily biased towards NTBM products and I'm a bit wary when people here tell me nolva is useless and outdated. A vast majority of the bodybuilding world seems to be doing fine with Nolva and without NTBM products. (No diss intended needto, just sayin'). I will look into HCGenerate, HCG and Clomid further in any case.

 

[Wildebeest]

This guy doesn't want advice. He wants validation. Wrong forum for that bullshit.

Test causes water retention, all test, especially cyp and eth. Fact... And experience. You will be bigger and bloated. It's pointless running test on a calorie deficit. Test is not going to turn your fat into muscle. Only magic can do that.

I don't know what makes you think that T-3 and albuterol will increase your ANYTHING by 10%. Where did you get that bunch of shit? It's gonna be a waste of money for you. The results are small no matter how much of it you take. Not only do I have experience with this but so do a lot of others on this forum including RADAR, who agreed with me. Talking about your beta-2s won't burn calories but fasted cardio will.

Nolvadex was designed to treat breast cancer, not recover your HPTA. It doesn't do a fucking thing for your recovery. More fact.

I'm not seeking validation. But you'll excuse me if I don't just take your words at face value. If you told me I'd lose more weight by shoving MORE drugs up my arse every day, we'd still be in this same stand-off.

Test is not going to turn my fat into muscle. I'm well aware of that. Also, I'm already doing fasted cardio, so I might as well talk about my beta 2s. Please refer to daily fasted cardio, workout plan and calorie deficit outlined in first post to see fat-attacking measures. The fact that you keep making these baseless assumptions makes me think that you're prejudiced and refutes your credibility.

Nolvadex will keep all that aromatising estrogen from turning your pecs into B-cups during PCT. You're on point that I need something to fix HPTA levels though. I figured 500mg cyp EW was a light cycle and didn't require too much of a PCT. I admit I figured wrong.

Anyhoozle, let's not turn this into a forum crap shoot. I'm not trying to diss you and your good work. I get that in a bodybuilder's head, you see 22% and sirens and alarm bells are going off. You know your shit obviously, but if you could be so kind as to look past 22% and address any of the other valid points I have made, I would really appreciate if you could tell me why this cycle will not do what I want to achieve from it?

 

[lander2312]

There are alot of NTBM fans here...and I understand you being hesitant. I personally use nolva for pct.....and I cant attest to all NTBM,but man the hcgenerate is incredible. It really does work. Hell actually everything I have bought from him has been great. I use hcgenerate during cycle and pct.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness

 

[dylangemelli]

Muscle gain may bring fat is what I was contesting, not the bloat.

I have spent 3 months looking around for the best way to do an intensive cut, and came to the conclusion that running this cycle would be *relatively* safe. I've drawn my conclusions based on a lot of sources, not just EF, and not just forums for that matter. I get the sense that you might not have been fat before, and therefore have no idea whether this may or may not work. I've seen results from people in similar cases and I'm going off their reference experiences.

Have I calculated this stuff? No. As I said, I'm sure it's arbitrary. Dictionary.com will tell you that you and I are saying the exact same thing.

Will I do more research into Nolva post-cycle? Yes. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, everyone who did. But this site seems to be heavily biased towards NTBM products and I'm a bit wary when people here tell me nolva is useless and outdated. A vast majority of the bodybuilding world seems to be doing fine with Nolva and without NTBM products. (No diss intended needto, just sayin'). I will look into HCGenerate, HCG and Clomid further in any case.

well you know what, if it works out for you, then thats awesome... you know how many people told me it was impossible when I said I wanted to gain 10lbs. on helladrol because i would not cut my cardio... i didn't gain 10, i gained 15 and my body fat dropped... so that just goes to show that anything is possible... so if you are set on it, go for it... i just wanted to give you the best advice i could...

as far as the pct, thats the bigger issue here... i understand that a lot of us recommend ntbm products for pct but there's a reason for it... they work! now, i am a prime example of how they work HOWEVER, I still use low dose serms in my pct but nolva will never be one of them... it will always be a low dose of clomid or torem... part of the major problem is dosing too high with these... i mean for fucks sake, most of them are to treat women's breast cancer... you know what i mean?? so anyway, i am sure you will get it figured out... good luck to you and i hope you can accomplish everything you want out of this...