All Guts and Glory - My First Test Cycle

[Wildebeest]

Hi all. I've done my research but I was hoping you'd be able to critique my cycle to see if I can improve on anything.

Background: I've been playing competitive sport for the last 14 years and spent a fair amount of time in the gym. Used to play club rugby and weighed in at a hefty 286lbs at one stage. Cleaned up my diet over the last 4 years and am now down to the following stats:

Age: 27
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 201lbs
BF: 22%

Now doing MMA and really want to realise my physical potential so have decided it's time for an intensive cut. I'd like to finally see my abs for the first time!

My Diet

Breakfast

2/3 cups rolled oats
2 scoops protein powder
15g natty PB

P/F/C: 59/16/42 561cals

Lunch

300g chicken breast
125g brown rice
75g baby spinach
1/2 tsp olive oil

P/F/C: 77/9/45 595cals

Snack/Pre-Workout

PB&J Sandwich on Spelt Bread

P/F/C: 16/11/24 274 cals

During Workout

40g malto
2 scoops whey

P/F/C: 48/0/40 398cals

Dinner

300g chicken breast
125g broccoli
1/2 tsp olive oil
1tbsp 70% reduced fat sour cream

P/F/C: 74/10/2 403 cals

Pre-Bed
2 scoop casein powder

P/F/C: 40/1/3 180 cals

Total: 2411 cals, 313g protein, 47g fat, 155g carbs

Workouts

40 mins cardio ED
BJJ - 1 hour on Wednesday and Saturday, 2 hours on Monday and Thursday

2 day split of 5x5 compound movements (pull-ups, DLs, squats, bench etc.)

Gear

T3: Taper up then 75mcg from Week 2-14
Albuterol: 16mg ED, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off

Test Cyp: 250mg pinned every Mon AM and Thurs PM from Week 1-12
Adex: 0.25 mg EOD

PCT
Nolva: 40/40/20/20, 14 days after last pin


What do you reckon? Your critique is much welcome.

 

[insanityapproved]

damn , 200g veggies per day? that's like 2 bites ? I eat 500g in a single meal lol

 

[TheSVPdeal]

You are way too fat for steroids and your PCT is crap. Should've read the stickies first.

Your T3 and albuterol stack is worthless at your body fat.

 

[searay]

You are way too fat for steroids and your PCT is crap. Should've read the stickies first.

Your T3 and albuterol stack is worthless at your body fat.

think you could be a bit more harsh? jeeesh

NO QUESTIONS....LOOK EVERYTHING UP AND THEN HAVE YOUR OWN CONVERSATION.

 

[searay]

how about something like;
awesome job on the weight loss dude. your diet looks outstanding and the cyle looks good. your pct looks weak however and youll want to have more than just nolva for it. plenty of info. on here to fix that though so best of luck and be safe.

 

[SWOLNUTZ]

He probably didn't see your current weight, because at 201 lbs and 6'1", that's a good height to mass ratio in my opinion. And dropping down 85 lbs is big deal too. I bet you feel a lot better now? As far as your diet, it's definitely on point, you might have to end up adding some calories (in carbs) if you start feeling too weak. That's essentially a competition diet and I remember seeing something similar on another website because I did a double take with the "Maltodextrin". I had not seen that used before.

As far as the cycle, it looks pretty decent. The PCT might be improved though. Here's what I would do, take nolvadex for one week (beginning 2 weeks after your last pin), then at 3 weeks, drop the nolvadex and run clomid at around 100 mg/day for 2-3 weeks. Some folks say 3, but for 500 mg test x week, you could probably get away with just two weeks. Then, after that, you might want to have some HCGenerate on hand and take a few of those a day for a few weeks. It really helps to make you feel better. Overall you'll get pretty good results from that cycle, but having been up to 286 lbs in the past, you'll want to keep an eye on your eating, and I think your diet addresses that.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[TheSVPdeal]

think you could be a bit more harsh? jeeesh

NO QUESTIONS....LOOK EVERYTHING UP AND THEN HAVE YOUR OWN CONVERSATION.

You wanna juice but you're gonna get all sensitive like a girl?

Let me rephrase my post:

Great job with losing weight and making the decision to live longer. I chalk that one up with wanting to breathe air. Congratulations on that too. At 22%, you're too fat for steroids. You risk your heart. Your PCT is shitty. There are stickies that will outline one for you. Your T3 and albuterol stack is great for those with low enough body fat for it to make a difference. Yours on the other hand is too high and the shortcut to fat loss won't work.

I hope that this was more of what you were looking for.

 

[the small soldier]

All this "too fat for steroids" is debatable. All top level IPF heavyweights take tons of gear and THEY ARE FAT AS HELL! I think it really depends on goals and you possibly your outlook on life.

 

[Wildebeest]

searay and swolnutz: Thanks for the good words and input. I'll re-work my PCT and post it up again later today. swolnutz, I'm aware my carbs are a bit on the low side. Is there virtue in upping them daily or should I just do a carby re-feed one meal a week if I'm feeling too weak?

thesvpdeal: I am glad that T3 and Albuterol do not quite work like yourself: It's not like I swallow the pills and they say "Hey man, you're too fat, we're not going to do any work". I know I will be darn surprised if that's how it actually works. My diet is and has been in check for the last 4 years, so I don't see a danger of rebound fat gain. I just want to do a 12 week intensive cut and if I'm going to put in the effort to follow a squeaky clean diet and great training program, I see them as excellent tools for MAXIMISING my results. I have no delusions of getting to single digit bodyfat with this cycle.

 

[lander2312]

YOu need to be taking the HCgenerate during your cycle. It helps stop your nutz from shutting down, thus making pct easier. YOu recover quicker.

 

[oxymoron]

Wilde, how'd you get that bf%? Calipered? Whoever did it was experienced at it? Anyways i'd get it down before hitting your first cycle.

 

[Wildebeest]

Here's what I've come up with:

1. Nolva + DAA PCT
2. HCG Taper + Nolva PCT
3. Nolva + HCGenerate PCT
4. HCGenerate on cycle, continue through PCT along with Nolva.

Which option is best, bearing in mind that I doubt I'm going to put on much muscle mass during this cycle?

 

[Wildebeest]

oxy, BF% was obtained using the Neck/Abdomen/Height ratio. Tanita scale supports this.

What's the logic behind losing more weight before a 12 week cutter? By my calculations, I should lose at least 18lbs of fat in 12 weeks, and be at a decent 13% bf.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Here's what I've come up with:

1. Nolva + DAA PCT
2. HCG Taper + Nolva PCT
3. Nolva + HCGenerate PCT
4. HCGenerate on cycle, continue through PCT along with Nolva.

Which option is best, bearing in mind that I doubt I'm going to put on much muscle mass during this cycle?

Nolva is outdated crap. Use the HCG while on and once you're off switch to UNLEASHED and POST CYCLE for 6 weeks. And if you want to keep feeling "on" use BRIDGE until the next cycle. That's gold.

 

[oxymoron]

What's the logic behind losing more weight before a 12 week cutter? By my calculations, I should lose at least 18lbs of fat in 12 weeks, and be at a decent 13% bf.

You're calculating a drop to 13% bf during this cycle and youre currently 22% bf , 6-1 @ 201 lbs at start.
At those stats u dont have a solid amount of muscle base under the fat to begin this cycle and you will eat up a lot of what u do have as base trying to accomplish that high of a bf reduction. The idea for a cutter is to drop fat while preserving muscle.

Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

 

[TheSVPdeal]

You're calculating a drop to 13% bf during this cycle and youre currently 22% bf , 6-1 @ 201 lbs at start.
At those stats u dont have a solid amount of muscle base under the fat to begin this cycle and you will eat up a lot of what u do have as base trying to accomplish that high of a bf reduction. The idea for a cutter is to drop fat while preserving muscle.

Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

When I mentioned these things, he got upset.

My first cycle was incredible because I had a good base, kept it mild, and had a solid PCT. These are all things that he should plan on.

 

[oxymoron]

When I mentioned these things, he got upset.

My first cycle was incredible because I had a good base, kept it mild, and had a solid PCT. These are all things that he should plan on.

Yep the standard first cycle protocol... put on muscle and get stronger and gain weight. What he's planning is to finish the home stretch of his very successful weight loss using the wrong methods. I've been out of it for a long time and im sitting at 15-16% bf and no way would I start a cycle b/c I won't see the true benefits. And i'd loooooove to do a nice cycle of test tbol right now!


Sent from my HTC T-Bolt.

 

[Wildebeest]

Please tell me where I'm wrong in my understanding oxy.

A fat loss of 1.5lbs a week with minimal muscle loss is not unreasonable, especially given:
1. Nutrient partioning effects of T3
2. The Beta-2 stimulatory effects of Alb
3. The anti-catabolism of running test alongside this
4. Low volume, heavy compound weight lifting
and
5. A clean diet with high protein intake.

If I were to diet intensively for 12 weeks, would this not be the best way to go about it in terms of rate of fat loss AND muscle preservation? Bear in mind I have no intentions of being some huge jacked dude ever.

 

[Wildebeest]

Maybe I phrased this title the wrong way. It's not a test cycle.

It's a T3/Alb cycle backed by Test.

 

[TheSVPdeal]

Please tell me where I'm wrong in my understanding oxy.

A fat loss of 1.5lbs a week with minimal muscle loss is not unreasonable, especially given:
1. Nutrient partioning effects of T3
2. The Beta-2 stimulatory effects of Alb
3. The anti-catabolism of running test alongside this
4. Low volume, heavy compound weight lifting
and
5. A clean diet with high protein intake.

If I were to diet intensively for 12 weeks, would this not be the best way to go about it in terms of rate of fat loss AND muscle preservation? Bear in mind I have no intentions of being some huge jacked dude ever.

No offense Bro, but 22% is fat. Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it.

The effects of the T-3 and albuterol will not even be noticed with the amount of fat you have on you now. Your remark about it not working for me made me laugh out loud.

Your best bet is to stick with what you know works: your diet and exercise. Taking hormones and research chemicals without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet, will leave you with sub par results.

You want a shortcut but you will learn the long and hard way.

My advice is to diet and train down to 15%, at least. In the mean time, do research.

 

[Wildebeest]

No offense Bro, but 22% is fat. Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it.

The effects of the T-3 and albuterol will not even be noticed with the amount of fat you have on you now. Your remark about it not working for me made me laugh out loud.

Your best bet is to stick with what you know works: your diet and exercise. Taking hormones and research chemicals without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet, will leave you with sub par results.

Ok, I get that you're trying to do the right thing as far as you know. But are you basing this on your own personal knowledge or science? I'm being stubborn, yes, but only because you have been all over my thread but have yet to refute any of my points with any degree of science or reason.

"Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it."
How would this happen on a calorie deficit? I'm not looking to gain muscle - and at 2400 calories, I doubt that's going to happen. I'm looking to prevent muscle loss!

"The effects of the T-3 will not be noticed"
An increase in metabolic rate is an increase in metabolic rate. The speculated increase in metabolic rate of Albuterol/T3 is 10% of BMR. I'm pretty sure that's arbitrary, but I'll give you that and admit that's not a whole lot and I can understand why you'd think it's useless.

But then you must realise, this is is EXPONENTIALLY increased with exercise. And therefore, with significant daily cardio and resistance training, there should be a significant increase in calorie output on the stack.

Then you couple that with the synergistic beta-2 activation that it has with Albuterol and one can expect that much more adipose tissue is going to be broken up into free-fatty acids and available to be used as a fuel source.

The test base, nutrient partioning effects of t3 and high protein intake should prevent muscle from being used as an energy source (or at least greatly minimise the occurence of that). Moreover, I eat the majority of my calories around my workout period so nutrient timing to promote anabolism (or at least anti-catabolism) should be sound.

So if diet+exercise was going to work anyway, diet+exercise+t3+alb+test should work a hell of a lot better since the calorie deficit that would've burned muscle and fat will significantly more fat and significantly less muscle. If I keep a calorie deficit of about 5000 cals a week, that should translate to 18 lbs of fat lost over 12 weeks, and hopefully barely any muscle, which will bring me to my target 13%.

"Without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet"
I have state and national rugby, boxing and jiu jitsu awards. I've got a fair knowledge of diet and exercise. No one ever told me I needed a six-pack to be an athlete. I wasn't a 286lbs dickhead eating potato chips and jacking off to Burger King ads all day.

I'm sure the cycle itself is solid. If anything, I'm worried that cals and carbs may be too low and I risk overtraining. So maybe now you can give me some SCIENTIFIC REASONING and show me that you actually know your shit.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but if all you have is snotty broscience, please go sucker some other fat dude.

 

[lander2312]

Wow this has turned into an interesting thread! I think your both right, your just coming from 2schools of thought. Svp is right in telling you that you will not see optimal tesults from anything until your at the 15%bf mark and he is telling you that you can do that naturally. Save the chems till you get to the point that you need them to take your body to the next level.

You are right in the fact that no matter when you take this cycle your body will respond better than without test and chems. Its just basic science weither your 30%bf of 10%bf your body will do more on cycle. Hell drs prescribe test to obese patients to aid in fat loss. My only advice is to try and look at the post on here (this whole site, well except c&c, ) as people taking time out of their day to help you. Good luck and please post results so we know how your doing.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness

 

[dylangemelli]

Ok, I get that you're trying to do the right thing as far as you know. But are you basing this on your own personal knowledge or science? I'm being stubborn, yes, but only because you have been all over my thread but have yet to refute any of my points with any degree of science or reason.

"Your cycle will bloat you and make you bigger. Your muscle gain may bring fat with it."
How would this happen on a calorie deficit? I'm not looking to gain muscle - and at 2400 calories, I doubt that's going to happen. I'm looking to prevent muscle loss!

"The effects of the T-3 will not be noticed"
An increase in metabolic rate is an increase in metabolic rate. The speculated increase in metabolic rate of Albuterol/T3 is 10% of BMR. I'm pretty sure that's arbitrary, but I'll give you that and admit that's not a whole lot and I can understand why you'd think it's useless.

But then you must realise, this is is EXPONENTIALLY increased with exercise. And therefore, with significant daily cardio and resistance training, there should be a significant increase in calorie output on the stack.

Then you couple that with the synergistic beta-2 activation that it has with Albuterol and one can expect that much more adipose tissue is going to be broken up into free-fatty acids and available to be used as a fuel source.

The test base, nutrient partioning effects of t3 and high protein intake should prevent muscle from being used as an energy source (or at least greatly minimise the occurence of that). Moreover, I eat the majority of my calories around my workout period so nutrient timing to promote anabolism (or at least anti-catabolism) should be sound.

So if diet+exercise was going to work anyway, diet+exercise+t3+alb+test should work a hell of a lot better since the calorie deficit that would've burned muscle and fat will significantly more fat and significantly less muscle. If I keep a calorie deficit of about 5000 cals a week, that should translate to 18 lbs of fat lost over 12 weeks, and hopefully barely any muscle, which will bring me to my target 13%.

"Without an extensive knowledge of diet and exercise, which you have not demonstrated yet"
I have state and national rugby, boxing and jiu jitsu awards. I've got a fair knowledge of diet and exercise. No one ever told me I needed a six-pack to be an athlete. I wasn't a 286lbs dickhead eating potato chips and jacking off to Burger King ads all day.

I'm sure the cycle itself is solid. If anything, I'm worried that cals and carbs may be too low and I risk overtraining. So maybe now you can give me some SCIENTIFIC REASONING and show me that you actually know your shit.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but if all you have is snotty broscience, please go sucker some other fat dude.

There are so many things wrong here...

test is going to bloat you no matter what your deficit is... that's what test does... now different tests will have more or less and if an ai is going to help with this but you "doubt this is going to happen" is not accurate, at all...

you might drop some weight here but the true effects of t3 and albuterol will not be noticed as they would if your body fat was lower... your body fat is too high... you absolutely should not be running test on that high of body fat... you can spend all week looking around and your not going to find anyone that recommends you run test with 22%... if you do find someone that does, it will be a rare occurrence...

you have all these "calculations" but have you ever personally ran this stack?? have you had these results before?? fuck i can calculate based on others that something will do whatever i figure and have the complete opposite effect... calculations don't mean shit... output does... true results do...

i mean the fact that you continually keep going back to nolva for your pct, even after everyone is telling you how shitty it is says enough...

i think you have some brain here and could do some nice things but you are too stubborn in your ways... we all are but if you can't adapt to change, you will never achieve your full capabilities... i've had to change so many things i didn't want to, but fuck, it worked... in all facets of life...

your going to do what you want to do and thats fine but you have been given good advice from well respected people... if you don't want it, thats cool, but then don't ask... because unfortunately, we all have to hear shit we don't want to hear at times but that makes us better...

good luck to you...

 

[TheSVPdeal]

There are so many things wrong here...

test is going to bloat you no matter what your deficit is... that's what test does... now different tests will have more or less and if an ai is going to help with this but you "doubt this is going to happen" is not accurate, at all...

you might drop some weight here but the true effects of t3 and albuterol will not be noticed as they would if your body fat was lower... your body fat is too high... you absolutely should not be running test on that high of body fat... you can spend all week looking around and your not going to find anyone that recommends you run test with 22%... if you do find someone that does, it will be a rare occurrence...

you have all these "calculations" but have you ever personally ran this stack?? have you had these results before?? fuck i can calculate based on others that something will do whatever i figure and have the complete opposite effect... calculations don't mean shit... output does... true results do...

i mean the fact that you continually keep going back to nolva for your pct, even after everyone is telling you how shitty it is says enough...

i think you have some brain here and could do some nice things but you are too stubborn in your ways... we all are but if you can't adapt to change, you will never achieve your full capabilities... i've had to change so many things i didn't want to, but fuck, it worked... in all facets of life...

your going to do what you want to do and thats fine but you have been given good advice from well respected people... if you don't want it, thats cool, but then don't ask... because unfortunately, we all have to hear shit we don't want to hear at times but that makes us better...

good luck to you...

This guy doesn't want advice. He wants validation. Wrong forum for that bullshit.

Test causes water retention, all test, especially cyp and eth. Fact... And experience. You will be bigger and bloated. It's pointless running test on a calorie deficit. Test is not going to turn your fat into muscle. Only magic can do that.

I don't know what makes you think that T-3 and albuterol will increase your ANYTHING by 10%. Where did you get that bunch of shit? It's gonna be a waste of money for you. The results are small no matter how much of it you take. Not only do I have experience with this but so do a lot of others on this forum including RADAR, who agreed with me. Talking about your beta-2s won't burn calories but fasted cardio will.

Nolvadex was designed to treat breast cancer, not recover your HPTA. It doesn't do a fucking thing for your recovery. More fact.

You posted this thread giving the perception to others that you wanted help. I have given it to you. I don't have to prove why my advice is sound. Go research it to learn why on your own. It's not what you wanted to hear or delivered the way you wanted it; your problem.

Power lifters juice in the 20 percentile of body fat too. That's not what you want to look like though.

Your 12 posts have added nothing of value to the site so far but you question others that have. Plenty of people have looked at this thread and the only reason that you are not getting a huge response I'd because there is nothing else to say or add.

C'mon son, get with the program.

 

[dylangemelli]

this guy doesn't want advice. He wants validation. Wrong forum for that bullshit.

Test causes water retention, all test, especially cyp and eth. Fact... And experience. You will be bigger and bloated. It's pointless running test on a calorie deficit. Test is not going to turn your fat into muscle. Only magic can do that.

I don't know what makes you think that t-3 and albuterol will increase your anything by 10%. Where did you get that bunch of shit? It's gonna be a waste of money for you. The results are small no matter how much of it you take. Not only do i have experience with this but so do a lot of others on this forum including radar, who agreed with me. Talking about your beta-2s won't burn calories but fasted cardio will.

Nolvadex was designed to treat breast cancer, not recover your hpta. It doesn't do a fucking thing for your recovery. More fact.

You posted this thread giving the perception to others that you wanted help. I have given it to you. I don't have to prove why my advice is sound. Go research it to learn why on your own. It's not what you wanted to hear or delivered the way you wanted it; your problem.

Power lifters juice in the 20 percentile of body fat too. That's not what you want to look like though.

Your 12 posts have added nothing of value to the site so far but you question others that have. Plenty of people have looked at this thread and the only reason that you are not getting a huge response i'd because there is nothing else to say or add.

C'mon son, get with the program.

bam!!

 

[SWOLNUTZ]

searay and swolnutz: Thanks for the good words and input. I'll re-work my PCT and post it up again later today. swolnutz, I'm aware my carbs are a bit on the low side. Is there virtue in upping them daily or should I just do a carby re-feed one meal a week if I'm feeling too weak?quote]

Yeah I like the idea of the one meal re-feed, because you can reward yourself for dieting all week. Also, if you put it in the middle of the week when you're working out, you can give your lifting a little boost from the extra carb intake.

 

[Wildebeest]

There are so many things wrong here...

test is going to bloat you no matter what your deficit is... that's what test does... now different tests will have more or less and if an ai is going to help with this but you "doubt this is going to happen" is not accurate, at all...

you might drop some weight here but the true effects of t3 and albuterol will not be noticed as they would if your body fat was lower... your body fat is too high... you absolutely should not be running test on that high of body fat... you can spend all week looking around and your not going to find anyone that recommends you run test with 22%... if you do find someone that does, it will be a rare occurrence...

you have all these "calculations" but have you ever personally ran this stack?? have you had these results before?? fuck i can calculate based on others that something will do whatever i figure and have the complete opposite effect... calculations don't mean shit... output does... true results do...

i mean the fact that you continually keep going back to nolva for your pct, even after everyone is telling you how shitty it is says enough...

i think you have some brain here and could do some nice things but you are too stubborn in your ways... we all are but if you can't adapt to change, you will never achieve your full capabilities... i've had to change so many things i didn't want to, but fuck, it worked... in all facets of life...

your going to do what you want to do and thats fine but you have been given good advice from well respected people... if you don't want it, thats cool, but then don't ask... because unfortunately, we all have to hear shit we don't want to hear at times but that makes us better...

good luck to you...

Muscle gain may bring fat is what I was contesting, not the bloat.

I have spent 3 months looking around for the best way to do an intensive cut, and came to the conclusion that running this cycle would be *relatively* safe. I've drawn my conclusions based on a lot of sources, not just EF, and not just forums for that matter. I get the sense that you might not have been fat before, and therefore have no idea whether this may or may not work. I've seen results from people in similar cases and I'm going off their reference experiences.

Have I calculated this stuff? No. As I said, I'm sure it's arbitrary. Dictionary.com will tell you that you and I are saying the exact same thing.

Will I do more research into Nolva post-cycle? Yes. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, everyone who did. But this site seems to be heavily biased towards NTBM products and I'm a bit wary when people here tell me nolva is useless and outdated. A vast majority of the bodybuilding world seems to be doing fine with Nolva and without NTBM products. (No diss intended needto, just sayin'). I will look into HCGenerate, HCG and Clomid further in any case.

 

[Wildebeest]

This guy doesn't want advice. He wants validation. Wrong forum for that bullshit.

Test causes water retention, all test, especially cyp and eth. Fact... And experience. You will be bigger and bloated. It's pointless running test on a calorie deficit. Test is not going to turn your fat into muscle. Only magic can do that.

I don't know what makes you think that T-3 and albuterol will increase your ANYTHING by 10%. Where did you get that bunch of shit? It's gonna be a waste of money for you. The results are small no matter how much of it you take. Not only do I have experience with this but so do a lot of others on this forum including RADAR, who agreed with me. Talking about your beta-2s won't burn calories but fasted cardio will.

Nolvadex was designed to treat breast cancer, not recover your HPTA. It doesn't do a fucking thing for your recovery. More fact.

I'm not seeking validation. But you'll excuse me if I don't just take your words at face value. If you told me I'd lose more weight by shoving MORE drugs up my arse every day, we'd still be in this same stand-off.

Test is not going to turn my fat into muscle. I'm well aware of that. Also, I'm already doing fasted cardio, so I might as well talk about my beta 2s. Please refer to daily fasted cardio, workout plan and calorie deficit outlined in first post to see fat-attacking measures. The fact that you keep making these baseless assumptions makes me think that you're prejudiced and refutes your credibility.

Nolvadex will keep all that aromatising estrogen from turning your pecs into B-cups during PCT. You're on point that I need something to fix HPTA levels though. I figured 500mg cyp EW was a light cycle and didn't require too much of a PCT. I admit I figured wrong.

Anyhoozle, let's not turn this into a forum crap shoot. I'm not trying to diss you and your good work. I get that in a bodybuilder's head, you see 22% and sirens and alarm bells are going off. You know your shit obviously, but if you could be so kind as to look past 22% and address any of the other valid points I have made, I would really appreciate if you could tell me why this cycle will not do what I want to achieve from it?

 

[lander2312]

There are alot of NTBM fans here...and I understand you being hesitant. I personally use nolva for pct.....and I cant attest to all NTBM,but man the hcgenerate is incredible. It really does work. Hell actually everything I have bought from him has been great. I use hcgenerate during cycle and pct.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness

 

[dylangemelli]

Muscle gain may bring fat is what I was contesting, not the bloat.

I have spent 3 months looking around for the best way to do an intensive cut, and came to the conclusion that running this cycle would be *relatively* safe. I've drawn my conclusions based on a lot of sources, not just EF, and not just forums for that matter. I get the sense that you might not have been fat before, and therefore have no idea whether this may or may not work. I've seen results from people in similar cases and I'm going off their reference experiences.

Have I calculated this stuff? No. As I said, I'm sure it's arbitrary. Dictionary.com will tell you that you and I are saying the exact same thing.

Will I do more research into Nolva post-cycle? Yes. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, everyone who did. But this site seems to be heavily biased towards NTBM products and I'm a bit wary when people here tell me nolva is useless and outdated. A vast majority of the bodybuilding world seems to be doing fine with Nolva and without NTBM products. (No diss intended needto, just sayin'). I will look into HCGenerate, HCG and Clomid further in any case.

well you know what, if it works out for you, then thats awesome... you know how many people told me it was impossible when I said I wanted to gain 10lbs. on helladrol because i would not cut my cardio... i didn't gain 10, i gained 15 and my body fat dropped... so that just goes to show that anything is possible... so if you are set on it, go for it... i just wanted to give you the best advice i could...

as far as the pct, thats the bigger issue here... i understand that a lot of us recommend ntbm products for pct but there's a reason for it... they work! now, i am a prime example of how they work HOWEVER, I still use low dose serms in my pct but nolva will never be one of them... it will always be a low dose of clomid or torem... part of the major problem is dosing too high with these... i mean for fucks sake, most of them are to treat women's breast cancer... you know what i mean?? so anyway, i am sure you will get it figured out... good luck to you and i hope you can accomplish everything you want out of this...

 

[RADAR]

Muscle gain may bring fat is what I was contesting, not the bloat.

I have spent 3 months looking around for the best way to do an intensive cut, and came to the conclusion that running this cycle would be *relatively* safe. I've drawn my conclusions based on a lot of sources, not just EF, and not just forums for that matter. I get the sense that you might not have been fat before, and therefore have no idea whether this may or may not work. I've seen results from people in similar cases and I'm going off their reference experiences.

Have I calculated this stuff? No. As I said, I'm sure it's arbitrary. Dictionary.com will tell you that you and I are saying the exact same thing.

Will I do more research into Nolva post-cycle? Yes. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, everyone who did. But this site seems to be heavily biased towards NTBM products and I'm a bit wary when people here tell me nolva is useless and outdated. A vast majority of the bodybuilding world seems to be doing fine with Nolva and without NTBM products. (No diss intended needto, just sayin'). I will look into HCGenerate, HCG and Clomid further in any case.

The reason for so many fans is the products work, I have over 40 yrs in the field and i wish i had NTBM products back then, but it was was wasted on cybergenics, muscle juice, etc.

I challenge you to try anything and if you're not happy, return for a full refund,Peroid! Can't get no better than that.

 

[Wildebeest]

Cheers guys.

I've re-worked my on-cycle therapy and PCT. I will be pinning 250 IU HCG 2x a week during cycle, then 500IU everyday for 10 days after last test pin. PCT (14 days after last test pin) will include HCGenerate and Clomid.

I'll post an update here at the end of the cycle so others may gain value from this - whether the answer is that this can be done or whether it is that I'm an idiot. I'm hoping the key factors of strict diet, exercise and use of AI (especially during the initial few weeks of higher BF%) will lead to a positive result.

 

[sojoocy]

Eh from all the research and thinking I have done, you only get your first cycle once, I want to gain as much muscle as I can on said first cycle, so I am going to eat like a crazy motherfucker and train just as hard to do so, if I was in your shoes I'd cut more, get a better base and THEN do my first cycle, but that's just me.

Good luck and I hope it goes well for you.

 

[RADAR]

Eh from all the research and thinking I have done, you only get your first cycle once, I want to gain as much muscle as I can on said first cycle, so I am going to eat like a crazy motherfucker and train just as hard to do so, if I was in your shoes I'd cut more, get a better base and THEN do my first cycle, but that's just me.

Good luck and I hope it goes well for you.

Yeah! Those virgin receptors are ready to take off, make that first cycle a good one.