Agree/Disagree?

[Dial_tone]

http://www.ketv.com/news/9737294/detail.html

Long story shortened - State trooper was fired for posting on a KKK website while off-duty. Judge reinstated him based on First Amendment rights. What do you think? Are cops held to a higher standard?

I'm okay with this decision.
----------------------

OMAHA, Neb. -- Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning said he filed an appeal on Friday related to a Nebraska State Patrol trooper who has admitted affiliations with the Ku Klux Klan, after an arbitrator ruled that the Patrol failed to show why the trooper was a threat.

Bruning said Trooper Robert Henderson, 50, of Omaha admitted in February that he had some communication with a white supremacist group called the White Knights. He was terminated in March.

Henderson, an 18-year veteran of the patrol, appealed the termination, and an arbitrator decided last week that he should be reinstated. The arbitrator said Henderson's First Amendment rights allow him to be a member of any group he chooses, Bruning said.

The arbitrator's ruling said that the Nebraska State Patrol failed to demonstrate why Henderson posed a threat to the public or the patrol. Paul Caffera's 48-page report is highly critical of how the State Patrol has handled this disciplinary case. Caffera said he shares "the disgust" the patrol has in Henderson's decision to align himself with the Ku Klux Klan, but Caffera said his ruling is based only on law, and in this case the Patrol did not prove Henderson's firing was justified under terms of the collective bargaining agreement.

Caffera noted that public employees have broad protection of their political beliefs. Since the patrol provided no evidence that Henderson did anything wrong on the job, the arbitrator said, Henderson's firing violates his right to free speech.

"It's very likely that ... the state patrol could have successfully defended the constitutionality of its decision to terminate (Henderson) by either showing some actual harm to its ability to maintain discipline and good order within the ranks, or by showing some actual diminution in the state patrol's ability to perform its police function," the ruling stated.

In his ruling, the arbitrator said the patrol failed to meet deadlines set in its investigation of Henderson, and that suggested to him that the patrol did not think the trooper posed a serious threat on the job.

"The snail's pace at which the investigation of (Henderson's) association with the Knight's Party Web site provides a clear and unambiguous signal that the agency did not seriously consider (Henderson's) activities to be a hindrance to his performance," the ruling stated.

Bruning Files Appeal

Bruning has filed a motion to vacate the arbitrator's decicision.

"Maybe a New York lawyer doesn't have a grasp on integrity, but (State Patrol) Col. (Brian) Tuma does, and I do and the governor does," and we don 't want this person on the staff, Bruning said. "We don't want the agency destroyed by a racist like Bob Henderson."

Bruning said Nebraska has a right to defend and protect its integrity. The decision came through binding arbitration and is generally tough to fight, Bruning said, but the attorney general said he believes it was just a wrong decision.

Tuma said Henderson was never cited on the job for racial profiling or other racist actions.

Tuma said his office's appeal is based on conduct unbecoming an officer. Both Tuma and Bruning said that Henderson isn't a welcome member of the state patrol.

"This is not Birmingham. This is not 1960. We have no interest in having racists in our ranks ... The First Amendment allows you to join disgusting groups ... but it does not allow him to be employed by the state of Nebraska as a state trooper. So he has a right to these thoughts, but we don't have to employ him," Bruning said.

Bruning said he has contacted state Sen. Ernie Chambers to file paperwork to revoke Henderson's status as an officer so he can't work in another state.

The Kansas Bureau of Investigation initially found out about Henderson's alleged activities in October 2005. Those officers tipped off the Nebraska State Patrol, reporting that someone identifying themselves on a white supremacist chat board as a Nebraska law enforcement officer posted that he was interested in talking with other white supremacists, particularly others in law enforcement. The tip led to the investigation.

Tuma said the KKK's history of violence make a trooper's involvement with the organization suspect. He and Bruning said that the White Knights is known to be a non-violent group that was retooled in the 1990s after David Duke headed the organization.

"Being affiliated with a white supremist organization is not consistent with the practices and policies of our agency," Tuma said.

Tuma has 60 days under the order to reinstate Henderson.

Lawyer: Henderson Has Quit Racist Group

Henderson's union attorney, Vincent Valentino of York, said his client has quit the group and is sorry he ever joined. Valentino said Henderson's membership and activities have been blown out of proportion.

Henderson wasn't "running around in a sheet and hood," Valentino said. "He was on his own time, on his own private computer. And he never brought any of the activity to the work force."

Valentino said that whatever Henderson may have done, state employees have a right to think what they want in private.

According to the arbitrator's ruling, the case had its origins in 2003, when Henderson's wife left him for a Hispanic man. Henderson is white.

Authorities said that when confronted, Henderson admitted to being a member of the Knights Party since June 2004.

According to an arbitrator's report, Henderson wrote on the Web site about how his fiance was being harassed by a black coworker and nothing was being done. He later wrote that "whites are losing their rights slowly. It's sad. I pray about it. I hope my prayers get answered."

He signed the entry "White Knight NE."

Sarpy County Chief Deputy Mike Jones said that when Henderson worked for him in Troop A for 10 years, he was an average trooper. Jones called Henderson an "impulsive individual" but not someone who ever showed signs of being a racist.

Jones said Henderson had several disciplinary problems stemming from decision-making and judgment issues.

Jones said he doesn't feel that Henderson could function as a law enforcement officer for any agency.

Henderson has not been available for comment.

Web Site Identifies Itself As 'Love Site'

The official Web site of the Knights Party, which is based in Harrison, Ark., clearly identifies itself as affiliated with the KKK. In the section that answers frequently asked questions, the site proclaims the United States was founded as a white, Christian nation and that membership in the Knights is reserved for white Christians.

The site says members do not endorse hatred, and that the Knights is a love group -- not a hate group.

Henderson posted on the members-only site, and it takes six months to a year before an applicant becomes a full member of the Knights.

The application fee for membership is $35.

A call was placed by KETV NewsWatch 7 to the national office of the Knights Party. No one returned the call.

 

[Phenom78]

I have to agree, unless we all agree (as California intends to do) to outlaw thought.

While our actions can be regulated, our thought should not.

 

[pdaddy]

Fire his ass, they have an occupation that cannot have biases. Why do you think they weed out the biggots for jury duty? There will be racists in any line of work but a cop has the power to ruin someobody in many facets.

I would consider that guy a liability.

 

[mrplunkey]

I don't think they had a legal right to fire him based on his use of free speech.

But I also think that *any* participation in a widely-recognized hate group such as the KKK should be considered equivalent to the use of "fighting words" on the part of the participant.

For example, if someone walks into a bar and gets in someone's face and say "Your mother is a whore. Let's fight" and that person gets their ass kicked, it isn't entirely the ass kicker's fault. The recipient of the ass-kicking can also be found culpable via the use of "fighting words". Similarly, I think any form of participation in any group like that (or wearing their insignia, singing their songs, etc. etc) should be considered equivalent to using fighting words. So bottom line... sure, wear that KKK insignia on your sleeve but if some black guy beats the shit out of you then you shouldn't have provoked him.

 

[Phenom78]

Fire his ass, they have an occupation that cannot have biases. Why do you think they weed out the biggots for jury duty? There will be racists in any line of work but a cop has the power to ruin someobody in many facets.

I would consider that guy a liability.

ahahaha

We'll put the robots in charge.

 

[pdaddy]

like robocop?

 

[mrplunkey]

Fire his ass, they have an occupation that cannot have biases. Why do you think they weed out the biggots for jury duty? There will be racists in any line of work but a cop has the power to ruin someobody in many facets.

I would consider that guy a liability.

He's definately a liability, but you can't dismiss someone over being a contingent liability -- they have to be an actual one.

 

[pdaddy]

For merely looking at a hate groups web site, of course he shouldn't be fired, however if he participates in one, then without a doubt.

 

[2dagym]

I agree also. Phenom said it best - If he decides to display concrete acts of racism or discrimination on his job, or hate crimes and such off the job, then we have a problem.

 

[mordy]

Unless its a written, stated requirement to not be part of such an organization, then they are right to reinstate him. However they should make it a requirement asap if you ask me.

 

[mrplunkey]

For merely looking at a hate groups web site, of course he shouldn't be fired, however if he participates in one, then without a doubt.

Participates as in posting "hell yeah!" = in poor taste but legal

Participates as in gathering for a demonstration and yelling "hell yeah!" = in poor taste but legal

Particpates as in assulting a minority = criminially prosecute him then go after his job based on his criminal activity as opposed to his use of first amendment rights.

 

[CrazyRussian]

I think all of our guts tell us the same thing - we don't want some dude posting on a KKK forum to be a cop. But, in reality, I agree with the decision.

 

[jestro]

If the worst thing he said was this

According to an arbitrator's report, Henderson wrote on the Web site about how his fiance was being harassed by a black coworker and nothing was being done. He later wrote that "whites are losing their rights slowly. It's sad. I pray about it. I hope my prayers get answered."

I don't think he should have been fired.

 

[2dagym]

Fire his ass, they have an occupation that cannot have biases. Why do you think they weed out the biggots for jury duty? There will be racists in any line of work but a cop has the power to ruin someobody in many facets.

I would consider that guy a liability.

hidden biases are the most harmful. Of course you have racist cops. It's the ones that don't announce that they are, but are out there giving the tickets and such to their chosen group to hate that deserve to be found out for their discriminatory actions and punished.

 

[pdaddy]

I tend to speak on a morality stand point rather than a legal one.


I've taken way more ethics classes than any ones on law.

 

[Phenom78]

like robocop?

No robocop can think. Therefroe he can have bias. Therefore you would keep him off the force.

In essence you want to penalize human nature.

Should I argue that a cop who posts on a virulent atheist website shouldnt be allowed to keep his job because he may or may not act biased towards those of faith?

Free thought and a free society are linked. You can't have one without the other.

 

[manny78]

Agree.

 

[Delinquent]

If the worst thing he said was this

According to an arbitrator's report, Henderson wrote on the Web site about how his fiance was being harassed by a black coworker and nothing was being done. He later wrote that "whites are losing their rights slowly. It's sad. I pray about it. I hope my prayers get answered."

I don't think he should have been fired.

I agree that if this is all he said, he shouldn't have been fired. It seems that pride in being anything other than white is ok but when someone says their proud to be white, they're called a racist

 

[Lestat]

seems so silly that he'd be fired for smoking a joint, no questions asked, but he can spew racisms all over the internet and he is protected.

under current law, I have to support the judge saying he gets his job back.

but I think that we, as a society, should all be held to higher standards.

 

[Island Son]

why not?
if you have a broker who's into trophy wives, banging hookers in the office (this happened in Canada recently) or gambling in vegas, he's gonna be let go. Because this behaviour opens up the firm to a huge risk.
if you're going to do that shit (KKK site) while in a job of the public trust, FIND ANOTHER JOB!!!

 

[Island Son]

Free thought and a free society are linked. You can't have one without the other.

Red herring. He acted, which goes beyond thought.

 

[Phenom78]

Red herring. He acted, which goes beyond thought.

Why?

Because you are not allowed to verbalize your thoughts in your society?


Thus the Free Speech ruling by the judge.

 

[Phenom78]

seems so silly that he'd be fired for smoking a joint, no questions asked, but he can spew racisms all over the internet and he is protected.

under current law, I have to support the judge saying he gets his job back.

but I think that we, as a society, should all be held to higher standards.

^^^^^

Excellent case study.

California is about to demonstrate what a left leaning society does with free speech and free thought.

That is for those of you who doubted that the left only supports free speech for those who agree with them.

 

[Tytan]

I agree he should be fired, dude took an oath and he should be held accountable for all iof his actions. When you are a public servant like a cop or nurse or something lke that you are always on the clock..You don`t stop being either and go to a kkk or whatever meeting..

 

[jnevin]

LOL @ white christian group.

Everyone's entitled to their beliefs. Actions are different.

I wonder how of us would be fired for posting on an anabolic discussion board and for using steroids/ have used steroids in the past?

 

[jnevin]

seems so silly that he'd be fired for smoking a joint, no questions asked, but he can spew racisms all over the internet and he is protected.

under current law, I have to support the judge saying he gets his job back.

but I think that we, as a society, should all be held to higher standards.

lol coming from the religion hater.

 

[biteme]

Aren't the kkk still racist? I wouldn't want a black cop that was racist. If that meant he would treat me differently based on the color of my skin, then he shouldn't be in a position of power over the people.

 

[biteme]

On the other hand, if the kkk is the equivolency today of the Naacp as I've heard, then it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[jnevin]

I don't want a short dood cop or a chick cop pulling me over. Both have some dumb shit to prove, and I always get a ticket from either kind.

Yes. I admit to vag/ munchkin profiling when I drive too fast.

 

[Dial_tone]

This would be great if we could find a black cop posting on a Black Panther website for comparison. The Black Panthers into violent/non violent halves way back. East coast was the violent side.

 

[jnevin]

This would be great if we could find a black cop posting on a Black Panther website for comparison. The Black Panthers into violent/non violent halves way back. East coast was the violent side.

This actually came to mind when I was reading the article. Or a black cop that's a member of the Nation Of Islam. Jewish profiling?

 

[digimon7068]

While I don't subscribe to the point of view, I have to agree with the ruling. While some of the Klan's activities may be illegal, the Klan itself is not. We have to uphold the rights of the good people AND the assholes or the wheels will fall off.

 

[SoreArms]

why is it OK to fire cops, teachers, etc for posting nudes on the internet? Is the human body more repulsive than racism and biggotry?

 

[jnevin]

why is it OK to fire cops, teachers, etc for posting nudes on the internet? Is the human body more repulsive than racism and biggotry?

You're still bitter about the shit you got about your herpes ravaged wang pics and the HR complaint?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

If he wasn't treating all civilians on equal terms then it would be a problem. If he can be unbiased/unprejudiced with the performance of his job, then fine. But that would kinda defeat the purpose of being involved in the KKK. I guess he knew that.

 

[medical]

The main problem is that since this is public knowledge every case he tries to make against a minority will get pounced on by the ACLU and NAACP and 100% will be thrown out. He is a liability to his department and should resign or be terminated. I agree legally he has done nothing wrong but every job has things you cannot do. Example: Grade school teacher is found to have an extensive collection of porn that depicts the particpants as very young people. Although all models are 18 yo, they are made to look 12 or younger. This same teacher has posted on websites his "fictional" prose about a teacher who has sex with his students. He has violated no laws, but do you want him teaching in your kid's school???

 

[gjohnson5]

The problem with this is that when you work a privledged job , you ARE held to a higher standard. I know in my agency they don't just hire anyone and let them look through personal and corporate tax information. A mistake in my department can be MUCH worse then a Rodney King beating...

I think they SHOULD be sensitive to people who are bad apples and WILL have poor decision making out on the street. His words will manifest itself into dog attacks , taser , and brutality of minority folks (as we know this currently goes on)

 

[cboogsrun]

Whos the racists cop from the OJ thing. Remember him,yeah OJ got off. Not saying it was Mark Furmans fault, but the case was severly hindered because he is a racists. If I was a black dude, I'd love that guy to write me a ticket, I'd say he racists and I wasn't breaking the law. You would think you'd get off. I spent 24 years of my life around the omaha metro area. it sucked. In council bluffs, IA, just across the river, a cop was video taped threatening the guy recording him. The cop said he was 6'4" , 290lbs with 6% bf and if he wanted to hurt him(guy recording) he could easily do so. First off, the cop was 20% bf and he obviously was doing something wrong and thats why he threatened the guy. I fucking hate cops. They are crooked mother fuckers.

 

[PBR]

Fire his ass, they have an occupation that cannot have biases. Why do you think they weed out the biggots for jury duty? There will be racists in any line of work but a cop has the power to ruin someobody in many facets.

I would consider that guy a liability.

a major liability....desk job counting paperclips is about his only recourse.

 

[Phenom78]

The problem with this is that when you work a privledged job , you ARE held to a higher standard. I know in my agency they don't just hire anyone and let them look through personal and corporate tax information. A mistake in my department can be MUCH worse then a Rodney King beating...

I think they SHOULD be sensitive to people who are bad apples and WILL have poor decision making out on the street. His words will manifest itself into dog attacks , taser , and brutality of minority folks (as we know this currently goes on)

Would you adhere to that same standard for any miniority officer who was ever caught making racist anti white statements in his free time?

 

[boss_]

"I fucking hate cops. They are crooked mother fuckers".

Now THAT is some funny shit. I guess blatant stereotyping is the order of the day.

What most people have failed to realize is that every human being holds some form of bias, based on real-life experiences. For this there is no "higher standard". So that's a bullshit statement. As far as black racist cops, etc. Here's the deal: MOST blacks are racist. So they should not be allowed to serve the public? Ridiculous. There's a big difference between someone's personal views and their ability to effectively perform public service. Do some take advantage of it? Certainly. But their track records will fuck them down the road.

I personally don't care for ghetto gangsta blacks or illegal mexicans. But in the heat of battle, I have laid my life on the line to save and protect them. So I can personally attest to the difference. Wanna hate people? Try a job in public service.

 

[Island Son]

Would you adhere to that same standard for any miniority officer who was ever caught making racist anti white statements in his free time?

hell yes

i know some people who work for the federal government.... they are ALWAYS on the clock even in private life.... no getting drunk in public, smoking up etc.

If you don't want the life, don't take the job.

 

[gjohnson5]

Would you adhere to that same standard for any miniority officer who was ever caught making racist anti white statements in his free time?

God this reverse discrimination stuff gets old...
Absolutely

 

[Phenom78]

God this reverse discrimination stuff gets old...
Absolutely

LOL

It isn't about discrimination

Its about freedom of thought.

Everyone is all for it until people disagree with them.

 

[BlondeBombshell27]

I don't blame them for firing him. Racism and hate aren't family values. You're suppose to set a positive example if you're in law enforcement.

 

[gjohnson5]

Freedom of thought ... What nonsense
A cop posting on a KKK board means that this person cannot make good judgements.

The person should be removed from a job where his judgement is critical in getting the job done

 

[BlondeBombshell27]

I enjoy telling racist people that Jesus was a Jew and that Jesus wasn't a white man at all.

 

[Phenom78]

Freedom of thought ... What nonsense
A cop posting on a KKK board means that this person cannot make good judgements.

The person should be removed from a job where his judgement is critical in getting the job done

Gotcha

Don't think like you = lack of good judgement.

 

[theprofessor]

he could have posted at some other board... especialy with the concerns he was posting...
knowing what the KKK is all about...
fire his ass...

 

[gjohnson5]

Gotcha

Don't think like you = lack of good judgement.

When it's a group of people with a certain skin color , yes...

 

[Phenom78]

When it's a group of people with a certain skin color , yes...

You mean whites?

Or did you meant to say harboring unpopular thoughts about other races.

Because if that's what you mean we should just do away with cops altogether, since no one would be able to apply.

 

[gjohnson5]

Man , me and you are going at it in a few threads.
I'm starting to think you are 75th , LOL

As long as the racist thoughts are not express in words or actions, then I have no problem with it

As soon as they come ouyt of the closet then they should be let go

You mean whites?

Or did you meant to say harboring unpopular thoughts about other races.

Because if that's what you mean we should just do away with cops altogether, since no one would be able to apply.

 

[gjohnson5]

It is now K time even for phenom

 

[BlondeBombshell27]

Most or all cops are stupid rednecks on powertrip. They think that they have to prove something to the whole entire world.

 

[Razorguns]

if a normal joe can't get a police job, cuz of a bad credit, or a weed possession 15 years ago - neither should he. The same reasons a pd wouldn't hire you if u told them yhou were in the kkk, is the same reason they should fire him. Doesn't allow for confidence of the public in the police.

And you know how much people love to scream racism at cops. He's a liability waiting to happen. Imagine him arresting a black man at 3am with no videos. Lawsuit city.

 

[digimon7068]

The problem with this is that when you work a privledged job , you ARE held to a higher standard. I know in my agency they don't just hire anyone and let them look through personal and corporate tax information. A mistake in my department can be MUCH worse then a Rodney King beating...

I think they SHOULD be sensitive to people who are bad apples and WILL have poor decision making out on the street. His words will manifest itself into dog attacks , taser , and brutality of minority folks (as we know this currently goes on)

Most law enforcement people (at least the ones that I know) have to go through a battery of personality/psychological tests during the interview process in an effort weed out those candidates with character flaws. . .there is a certain amount of compassion, morality, etc. that is required by the job. . .I'm guessing this guy was subjected to similar tests and passed.

 

[Y_lifter]

I would say it depends on what exactly he posted.

He is supposed to uphold racial hate crimes etc, and if he were posting
and perpetuating them, then he should be fired.

If he posted something relatively vaugue or just a question, then no biggie
but still not smart given his position.

No different than a Dr legally prescribing drugs to someone that does not need them. Not technically illegal, but still improper worthy of action against him.

 

[alien amp pharm]

He was probably upset because no action was being taken at his wife's work because the guy hitting on her was black and thus the company feared the lawsuits and backlash from you politically correct dumbasses.

I'd be pissed too.

I do not support either, but what's the difference in the KKK and the NAACP? Both support based on race. There are hatefull, racists people in each I gaurantee that. The KKK doesn't go around lynching people like many of you want to believe.

 

[Y_lifter]

Also,

LOL @ Dial Tone giving the offical OK on this topic for all the dark skinned people of the world.

 

[mkazzbmf]

Fire his ass, they have an occupation that cannot have biases. Why do you think they weed out the biggots for jury duty? There will be racists in any line of work but a cop has the power to ruin someobody in many facets.

I would consider that guy a liability.

Agreed

 

[Phenom78]

It is now K time even for phenom

LOL @ even for Phenom.

Because I don't want to live in a totalitarian society where even peoples private thoughts are monitored by the government.

Yeah sorry, my family came here to escape that crap bro. Im not about to support turning into the US into the same kind of place.


That we are even discussing this topic is absurd. I can only attribute it to the fact that most people just aren't very bright or operate under the fantasy that all future questionable thought will be in line with their thinking.

Way to cede your rights to the government.

 

[heatherrae]

I am a HUGE advocate of freedom of speech. However, when that freedom interferes with your ability to do your job, I would say that you can be fired at will.

Now, many people have said that unless he actually does an act of racism on the job, he should not be fired. However, I tell you as a former criminal defense attorney, that I would bring up his racists comments every time I represented a minority client who was arrested by him. It would be my duty to examine whether there was actual probable cause or whether he was just acting on prejudice.

Also, think about what would happen if he had to shoot a minority while on the job. The press would be all over the statements on the KKK site and the city could even be thrown into a riot over it.

One more thing. Now that the press has picked up the story, how do you think minorities are going to react when he goes to ask them questions, pull them over, arrest them? If I were in that position, I don't know if I would pull over for this weirdo.

Nah, I think he should know that posting on a KKK site would get him in hot water and is jeapordizing his effectiveness as a cop. Cops are entrusted to serve and protect. He can't be trusted in this position after exercising such bad judgment. He should eitehr be fired or given a harmless desk job.

 

[Phenom78]

I am a HUGE advocate of freedom of speech. However, when that freedom interferes with your ability to do your job, I would say that you can be fired at will.

Now, many people have said that unless he actually does an act of racism on the job, he should not be fired. However, I tell you as a former criminal defense attorney, that I would bring up his racists comments every time I represented a minority client who was arrested by him. It would be my duty to examine whether there was actual probable cause or whether he was just acting on prejudice.

Also, think about what would happen if he had to shoot a minority while on the job. The press would be all over the statements on the KKK site and the city could even be thrown into a riot over it.

One more thing. Now that the press has picked up the story, how do you think minorities are going to react when he goes to ask them questions, pull them over, arrest them? If I were in that position, I don't know if I would pull over for this weirdo.

Nah, I think he should know that posting on a KKK site would get him in hot water and is jeapordizing his effectiveness as a cop. Cops are entrusted to serve and protect. He can't be trusted in this position after exercising such bad judgment. He should eitehr be fired or given a harmless desk job.

The only salient issue is his ability to do his job post publication.

As a practical matter it would be near impossible for him to conduct law enforcement proceedings at this point.

My guess would be the city will find some settlement with him and he'll move on.

 

[Frisky]

If he has a history then YES, he should be fired... If he's done nothing to exibit racism then i would beleive there is no grounds to fire him. Its sad sometimes, because maybe he's an accident waiting to happen.. but even in domestic disputes, there has to be evidence to press any charges right? I see no difference in this situation. I think that if they give him enough rope he will eventually hang himself... Its only a matter of time esp being affiliated with that orginzation.

 

[heatherrae]

The only salient issue is his ability to do his job post publication.

As a practical matter it would be near impossible for him to conduct law enforcement proceedings at this point.

My guess would be the city will find some settlement with him and he'll move on.

Exactly my point. Agreed.

 

[Dial_tone]

He was probably upset because no action was being taken at his wife's work because the guy hitting on her was black and thus the company feared the lawsuits and backlash from you politically correct dumbasses.

I'd be pissed too.

I do not support either, but what's the difference in the KKK and the NAACP?

Your post deserves to be ignored from this point forward, but I digress. One has a looooong history of violence and one doesn't.

Both support based on race. There are hatefull, racists people in each I gaurantee that. The KKK doesn't go around lynching people like many of you want to believe.

anymore....but they would if they could count on a jury that let them get away with it.

 

[The Shadow]

Personally - I feel that if somone carries those type of feelings - sooner or later they WILL interfere with his profession

 

[Phenom78]

Your post deserves to be ignored from this point forward, but I digress. One has a looooong history of violence and one doesn't.



anymore....but they would if they could count on a jury that let them get away with it.

I think the point he was making is with respect to compatibility of racial views. I think most take it as a given that any actual violence, or ongoing or even recent violence, would disqualify the exemption.

And brohaim , if we are going to be denying people jobs based on prejudicial inclinations, then I doubt many black men would be able to find work in this country based on homosexual bias alone.

 

[heatherrae]

Personally - I feel that if somone carries those type of feelings - sooner or later they WILL interfere with his profession

Even if he never acts on it, a prosecutor would have a hard time prosecuting a case against a minority when the arresting officer is openly racist on a website. He should have known better and exercised such bad judgment that I wouldn't trust his judgement on much else.

 

[alien amp pharm]

So we post on a steroid site, I guess we are all roid abusers.

Phenom has it right, when we start taking away our free speech we have a police state. Many of you PC sheep fail to see it.

Sadly this guy's carrer is already ruined, Heatherrae gave examples why. Despite not making one racist comment or action, that we know of.


Let's make fun of God and Christ, but OMG! OMG! somebody said a racist comment, lets kill him!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me a break.

 

[Phenom78]

So we post on a steroid site, I guess we are all roid abusers.

Phenom has it right, when we start taking away our free speech we have a police state. Many of you PC sheep fail to see it.

Sadly this guy's carrer is already ruined, Heatherrae gave examples why. Despite not making one racist comment or action, that we know of.


Let's make fun of God and Christ, but OMG! OMG! somebody said a racist comment, lets kill him!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me a break.

Exactly

I dont think anyone who has ever posted on an atheist site, especially any that have ever referred to those of faith in a derogatory manner, should be allowed to hold jobs. Certainly any such bias would eventually reflect in their dealings.

 

[boss_]

I am a HUGE advocate of freedom of speech. However, when that freedom interferes with your ability to do your job, I would say that you can be fired at will.

Now, many people have said that unless he actually does an act of racism on the job, he should not be fired. However, I tell you as a former criminal defense attorney, that I would bring up his racists comments every time I represented a minority client who was arrested by him. It would be my duty to examine whether there was actual probable cause or whether he was just acting on prejudice.

Also, think about what would happen if he had to shoot a minority while on the job. The press would be all over the statements on the KKK site and the city could even be thrown into a riot over it.

One more thing. Now that the press has picked up the story, how do you think minorities are going to react when he goes to ask them questions, pull them over, arrest them? If I were in that position, I don't know if I would pull over for this weirdo.

Nah, I think he should know that posting on a KKK site would get him in hot water and is jeapordizing his effectiveness as a cop. Cops are entrusted to serve and protect. He can't be trusted in this position after exercising such bad judgment. He should eitehr be fired or given a harmless desk job.

Sure, you could bring up his comments in every case you tried, and the judge would get tired of your shit in short order. If this officer had been caught LYING or some other form of misconduct, you have a point. Since it is the law that keeps him in his job to begin with, you don't.

I'm not familiar with this case, and don't know all the facts, except for what was quoted in this thread. I'm sure since you are a "former criminal defense attorney" you do...

Hope you sleep well at night, btw...

 

[Longhorn85]

I agree also. Phenom said it best - If he decides to display concrete acts of racism or discrimination on his job, or hate crimes and such off the job, then we have a problem.

Ditto

 

[heatherrae]

Sure, you could bring up his comments in every case you tried, and the judge would get tired of your shit in short order. If this officer had been caught LYING or some other form of misconduct, you have a point. Since it is the law that keeps him in his job to begin with, you don't.

I'm not familiar with this case, and don't know all the facts, except for what was quoted in this thread. I'm sure since you are a "former criminal defense attorney" you do...

Hope you sleep well at night, btw...

yeah, I sleep just fine at night. I have a duty to bring up racial bias of an arresting officer if there is evidence of such. Whether the judge got "tired of my shit" or not is just too bad. He or she would have to determine the admissibility of the comments, and rule according to the defendants constitutional rights. So, no, I don't feel bad at all bringing up potential defenses and letting the jury decide. I, evidently unlike you, believe in our justice system and protecting people's rights.

 

[Dial_tone]

I think he can pretty much bank on the notion that anytime he has to testify in a trial against a minority the opposing lawyer will bring this up; should be interesting.

 

[jnevin]

I enjoy telling racist people that Jesus was a Jew and that Jesus wasn't a white man at all.

Funny part about that is quite a few people, and the mormon religion as a whole think that jesus was white, and that's part of what made him special.

I wish I was kidding when I said that.

 

[jnevin]

Exactly

I dont think anyone who has ever posted on an atheist site, especially any that have ever referred to those of faith in a derogatory manner, should be allowed to hold jobs. Certainly any such bias would eventually reflect in their dealings.

That's a two way street. Someone posting on a faith based website could have their views cloud their judgment when dealing with different faiths or people of no faith. It happens all the time here in UT. I had a builder drop me because he found out I'm not mormon. He flat out told me he felt more comfortable doing business with "someone that shared his values and had the same upbringing". aap has repeatedly said people are going to hell for their beliefs, how is that unbiased?

Hell, the website the cop was posting on called themselves a christian site. I know that's not christian behavior, but you get someone like Lestat pulled over by a bible thumper that posts on how hw thinks the world should be, and there's a potential issue.

This whole thing would be a non-issue if it was a hispanic cop posting on a mexican nationalistic site, a black cop posting on a black panther or nation of islam site, or a female cop posting on the lifetime channel chat board .

 

[Phenom78]

That's a two way street. Someone posting on a faith based website could have their views cloud their judgment when dealing with different faiths or people of no faith. It happens all the time here in UT. I had a builder drop me because he found out I'm not mormon. He flat out told me he felt more comfortable doing business with "someone that shared his values and had the same upbringing". aap has repeatedly said people are going to hell for their beliefs, how is that unbiased?

Hell, the website the cop was posting on called themselves a christian site. I know that's not christian behavior, but you get someone like Lestat pulled over by a bible thumper that posts on how hw thinks the world should be, and there's a potential issue.

This whole thing would be a non-issue if it was a hispanic cop posting on a mexican nationalistic site, a black cop posting on a black panther or nation of islam site, or a female cop posting on the lifetime channel chat board .

My pointy exactly. It's a stupid practice altogether.

And how do we go about administering it?

Have people sign swron statements about everything they've ever said or thought prior to gaining employment?

Do we then prosecute anyone who lied on the application?

1) Have you ever made any derogatory comments about women? If yes please list each seperately and explain why?

Well...uh...I called my gf a bitch once when we got in a fight. I also called her a dirty whore during sex multiple times.

Uhm...I once said women were lousy drivers, but I was just kidding. It was a joke...really...

 

[jnevin]

My pointy exactly. It's a stupid practice altogether.

And how do we go about administering it?

Have people sign swron statements about everything they've ever said or thought prior to gaining employment?

Do we then prosecute anyone who lied on the application?

1) Have you ever made any derogatory comments about women? If yes please list each seperately and explain why?

Well...uh...I called my gf a bitch once when we got in a fight. I also called her a dirty whore during sex multiple times.

Uhm...I once said women were lousy drivers, but I was just kidding. It was a joke...really...

I think the olny sane solution is to lobotomize anyone that will ever deal with anyone at any time in their life.

 

[Y_lifter]

Having a job with nearly limitless power over the public, with no one
to watch over them when on the street etc. I believe the question of him being
able to do his Job as unbiased as possible is an issue here.

A cop or goverment official is Expected to have a higher level of ethical and moral repute as compared to other jobs due to this power over the public.
Not saying many don't have issues, but when it is recognised that they have an issue, action should be taken to remove or limit their ability to use that power.

 

[heatherrae]

I think he can pretty much bank on the notion that anytime he has to testify in a trial against a minority the opposing lawyer will bring this up; should be interesting.

I can guarantee you that they will! So, in effect, he can't make arrests without being a liability now. If he ever has to shoot a minority in the line of duty, justified or not, you better believe that the police force will be sued because they know that he posts on a racist website. The defense costs $$$. He is too big of a risk.

 

[gjohnson5]

Weren't you in favor of the Bush wiretapping program??

I was going to quit Elitefitness when I got my gov't job because I felt that it was a conflict of ethics. Now that I see in my agency that folks are somewhat loose and not to "tight assed" as I once thought , I have relaxed that opinion some

But I think that some on your side of the fence want folks to be monitored more then the yare now. Some right wingers believe that people should not have privacy at all.

I think people don't care about the monitoring unless it's THEM that are being monitored....

LOL @ even for Phenom.

Because I don't want to live in a totalitarian society where even peoples private thoughts are monitored by the government.

Yeah sorry, my family came here to escape that crap bro. Im not about to support turning into the US into the same kind of place.


That we are even discussing this topic is absurd. I can only attribute it to the fact that most people just aren't very bright or operate under the fantasy that all future questionable thought will be in line with their thinking.

Way to cede your rights to the government.

 

[jnevin]

Weren't you in favor of the Bush wiretapping program??

I was going to quite elitefitness when I got my gov't job because I felt that it was a conflict of ethics. Now that I see in my agency that folks are somewhat loose and not to "tight assed" as I once thought , I have relaxed that opinion some

But I think that some on your side of the fence want folks to be monitored more then the yare now. Some right wingers believe that people should not haveprivacy at all.

I think people don't care about the monitoring unless it's THEM that are being monitored....

If I'm not mistaken, the wire tapping only applies to call coming from outside the U.S. Different rules apply. It's like customs for calls in a sense.

 

[heatherrae]

Weren't you in favor of the Bush wiretapping program??

I was going to quit Elitefitness when I got my gov't job because I felt that it was a conflict of ethics. Now that I see in my agency that folks are somewhat loose and not to "tight assed" as I once thought , I have relaxed that opinion some

But I think that some on your side of the fence want folks to be monitored more then the yare now. Some right wingers believe that people should not have privacy at all.

I think people don't care about the monitoring unless it's THEM that are being monitored....

I'm very much not in favor of the wiretapping program, and I am the biggest proponent of freedom of speech that I know. However, in this case, I think the issue isn't so much freedom of speech as it is his ability to do the job he was hired to do. He has put too much ammo out there to attack his arrests.

 

[gjohnson5]

I will agree that his wife should have more protections under the law. Woman should not have to tolerate with sexual harrassment in order to do a job (now if the chicks wanna harass me they are more then welcome )

Anyway
His reaction to the situation means to me that he will react negatively again. What if his partner got shot by a black dude. This guy my go after and shoot , kill the first black person he sees. It is a character flaw that the psychological testing did not find.

It does not matter what race the cop is. Harboring resentment like that for anyone is bad

I'm very much not in favor of the wiretapping program, and I am the biggest proponent of freedom of speech that I know. However, in this case, I think the issue isn't so much freedom of speech as it is his ability to do the job he was hired to do. He has put too much ammo out there to attack his arrests.

 

[Phenom78]

Weren't you in favor of the Bush wiretapping program??

I was going to quit Elitefitness when I got my gov't job because I felt that it was a conflict of ethics. Now that I see in my agency that folks are somewhat loose and not to "tight assed" as I once thought , I have relaxed that opinion some

But I think that some on your side of the fence want folks to be monitored more then the yare now. Some right wingers believe that people should not have privacy at all.

I think people don't care about the monitoring unless it's THEM that are being monitored....

Because you are being too simplistic.

No one is wiretapping purely domestic calls without warrants.. If they were then I would be the first to call for prosecution.

It is long established that citzens have no expectation of privacy for antyhing crossing a national border. Which is why customs doesn't need a warrant to search international packages. SCOTUS ruled long before Bush that they could download your hardrive if they wished provided it was crossing a border. A telephone company is no less real a border than an airport in Chicago.

I doubt you'd find many right wingers as you put it anxious to establish a more powerful and invasive government.

That has been the agenda of you left wingers since most of the 20th century. We are the ones trying to prevent you from doing so.

 

[gjohnson5]

This is the line GW fed you...

If I'm not mistaken, the wire tapping only applies to call coming from outside the U.S. Different rules apply. It's like customs for calls in a sense.

 

[gjohnson5]

Guys , I simply don't believe that for a comprehensive anti terror program that monitoring only international calls is sufficient. There would be no monitoring of terror cell here in the US.


Newflash
There are terror cells in the US
End Newsflash


This is why phone companies are denying his requests for phone records without a warrant. He is infact running a dragnet

 

[Phenom78]

Guys , I simply don't believe that for a comprehensive anti terror program that monitoring only international calls is sufficient. There would be no monitoring of terror cell here in the US.


Newflash
There are terror cells in the US
End Newsflash


This is why phone companies are denying his requests for phone records without a warrant. He is infact running a dragnet

Bro

Your command of the facts is extremely flawed.

No credible source is even making the assertion you are with respect to domestic wire tapping.

 

[Protobuilder]

I have to agree, unless we all agree (as California intends to do) to outlaw thought.

While our actions can be regulated, our thought should not.

Apparently you haven't heard of "hate crimes." LoL You know, where if you think bad thoughts while killing someone, you get extra time in the joint. Well, it's OK to think bad thoughts about certain races while killing them, you just can't think bad thoughts about the "favored" races while killing them.

 

[jnevin]

Apparently you haven't heard of "hate crimes." LoL You know, where if you think bad thoughts while killing someone, you get extra time in the joint. Well, it's OK to think bad thoughts about certain races while killing them, you just can't think bad thoughts about the "favored" races while killing them.

Otherwise that's considered a "love murder".

 

[Phenom78]

Apparently you haven't heard of "hate crimes." LoL You know, where if you think bad thoughts while killing someone, you get extra time in the joint. Well, it's OK to think bad thoughts about certain races while killing them, you just can't think bad thoughts about the "favored" races while killing them.

LOL

Who do you think you're talking to bra?

Those should be abolished as well. Stupidest thing ever enacted.

And what is the punishment anyway? If you kill someone we'll give you the chair twice? If punishments are not prohibitive enough for violent crimes, then raise them across the boards.

The entire notion that killing, injuring, or raping someone is somehow less "offensive" depending on the predisposition of the perp towards that persons race or gender is absurd.
"Yeah Im gonna kill you, then rape your wife and daughters, but I hope you will be comforted by the fact that I'm only doing so because I don't care for you on an individual level, and not because of your ethnicity."

 

[Protobuilder]

LoL @ phenom. I guess my sarcasm didn't come through. We're on the same page.

It's offensive to me that the person's thoughts make one iota of difference when committing some brutal crime. I'm pretty sure that smashing someone's head in w/ a brick is a hate crime, regardless if you love race or not. LoL But to say "hating group X" is worthy of an extra 10 years in jail . . . that's a VERY dangerous slope.

 

[pdaddy]

"I fucking hate cops. They are crooked mother fuckers".

Now THAT is some funny shit. I guess blatant stereotyping is the order of the day.

What most people have failed to realize is that every human being holds some form of bias, based on real-life experiences. For this there is no "higher standard". So that's a bullshit statement. As far as black racist cops, etc. Here's the deal: MOST blacks are racist. So they should not be allowed to serve the public? Ridiculous. There's a big difference between someone's personal views and their ability to effectively perform public service. Do some take advantage of it? Certainly. But their track records will fuck them down the road.

I personally don't care for ghetto gangsta blacks or illegal mexicans. But in the heat of battle, I have laid my life on the line to save and protect them. So I can personally attest to the difference. Wanna hate people? Try a job in public service.

Lol, what an ignorant thing to say. I work in public service as well and it has only made me more empathetic towards those that might be considered to recieve the blunt of racism or a bias. A weak person would allow a specific subculture to evoke hate or resentment and a weak person would also use their occupation as an excuse to think less of another. Your frame of thinking only makes thing worse.

 

[Dial_tone]

If I'm not mistaken, the wire tapping only applies to call coming from outside the U.S. Different rules apply. It's like customs for calls in a sense.

Unfortunately, you are mistaken.

In his New Year's Day remarks, Bush further misled the public, by insisting that his warrantless wiretaps only involved communications from suspicious individuals abroad who were contacting people in the United States, a policy that would be legal. Bush said the eavesdropping was “limited to calls from outside the United States to calls within the United States.”

But Bush’s explanation was at odds with what his own administration had previously admitted to journalists – that the wiretaps also covered calls originating in the United States, which require warrants from a special court created by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.

The White House soon “clarified” Bush’s remarks to acknowledge that his warrantless wiretaps did, indeed, involve communications originating in the United States

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/010206.html

 

[Phenom78]

Unfortunately, you are mistaken.

LOL

In other words, only international calls, as stated earlier.

 

[Dial_tone]

LOL

In other words, only international calls, as stated earlier.

Let's see. Habib in Pakhistan calls Mohammed in Jersey. Some thereafter Mohammed in Jersey calls Akhbar in Philly....I can see that call being tapped very easily.

 

[Phenom78]

Let's see. Habib in Pakhistan calls Mohammed in Jersey. Some thereafter Mohammed in Jersey calls Akhbar in Philly....I can see that call being tapped very easily.

I can see Akhbar in turn calling space aliens. That doesn't make it so.

There is not even a credible accusation of domesticv wiretapping, never mind evidence of such.

After years of accusing Bush of orchestrating a plot to out Valerie Plame, only to find out it was one of your own who did so, don't you think its about time that you guys have some actual evidence prior to running off at the mouth for years about yet another soon to be discredited conspiracy?

 

[Dial_tone]

And by "you guys" you mean anybody who says anything even remotely construed as anti-Bush?....because FYI, I do vote Republican 70% of the time. I just don't buy everything the party spits out just because the other side has to be our enemy.

 

[Phenom78]

And by "you guys" you mean anybody who says anything even remotely construed as anti-Bush?....because FYI, I do vote Republican 70% of the time. I just don't buy everything the party spits out just because the other side has to be our enemy.

I mean you guys with your non ending stream of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

Then once they are proven false you just invent another.

How much of the national debate, with so many hugely important issues of merit to discuss, has been wasted on this garbage?