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Aggressive weight loss plan

cyrex

cyrex

New member
Hey all. I am interested in some suggestions on a very aggressive weight loss plan. I am currently very fat. I'm 6'3" weigh about 290 lbs with around 30% body fat. I tore my ACL in college playing football and have not been in shape since. My knee is currently healthy and I am ready to start training again. To start, I just want to just tear down my weight and lose as much as possible in the next 16 weeks. For short-term motivation I am doing a competition with other guys in my office. We are to lose 10% of our body weight in 12 weeks and keep it off for another 4 weeks. Long term goal is to get down to 10% bf and build up to around 230lbs where I was before my knee injury, but first thing is first.

I want to do everything I can to win this competition at work. I am looking for recommendations on my diet to boost my metabolism. Obviously I will be trying to do as much cardio as time and mental toughness will allow, so I think I have my training plan covered, but I'm looking for suggestions on a diet plan that will boost my metabolism and keep it up there for a while.
I have some ephedra capsules left from before my injury as well as some xenedrine with ephedra, so I have that at my disposal for supplements (I will be under doctor supervision using them). Does anyone know where I can get anymore ephedra supplements? Also any recommendations on other 'helpers' would be nice. I was thinking of getting some liquid clen, but I am not sure if I want to take the legal risks of that route since my only option at the moment would be ordering online.

I digress. Back to the diet. For the first 2 days I am not going to be eating anything and drinking as much water as I can consume. This will server a few purposeses:
1) I don't remember when the last time I was really 'hungry' and want to know what that feels like again.
2) I haven't been drinking much water so if I replace my urge to eat with drinking water, I will be able to break into drinking more water quicker and drop my retained water sooner.

So one of my questions is will the fasting for a few days harm or help my metabolism? I assume it shouldn't do much for only 2 days of it, but does anyone have a recommendation on increasing or decreasing the fasting part?

Second, I have had great success previosly in 'kick starting' my metabolism with a ketonic diet for 2 weeks with 1 day in between where I break the diet and eat pizza or pasta to 'trick' my body into thinking all is normal and continue to burn fat. Is there futher research on the effectiveness of this? Is there a better strategy and how long can it last?

What has everyone else seen working for dramatic weight loss? Also are there any supplements that I might be able to use to help my progress? I do gain and lose weight fairly easily and lost near 60 lbs in a 2.5 month period so I know my body can do it, but I want every advantage over my competition.


Second, does anyone have any recommendations on post-competition? Again, my long term goal is to get to around 230 lbs with 10% bf. Should I try to get down to 8 or 9% before trying to bulk up? or is 15-18% good enough, start bulking up and then cut down once my lean body mass is around 215?

If anyone can refer me to any literature, or media to look at for assistance or their own personal opinion or experience I would be very thankful.
 
BTW Any websites with non-biased info on comparisons of different diet strategies (atkins, southbeach, weightwatchers, high carb, etc) would be great. Unfortunately google is littered with advertisements for a weight loss product with no decent information that is unbiased.
 
A classic.
From Crumcake - God, I miss him :bawling:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124600

I've done fasts even though I don't suggest them. So I won't comment other than I would just dive right into the diet.

The below is From Tha One Crum Cake - this is his diet:

This is a Strict Diet for 8 weeks. No CHEAT days, None. 56 days Straight. If you can't deal with it, then this isn't for you. If you can hang, The results will be Phenomenal.

This is a Diet for someone who is in Shape, but just needs to lose those LAST few pounds of Stubborn fat.

This diet will work ESPECIALLY for those with excess Fat in the lower abs, thighs, lower back area.

Diet Guidelines:

Avoid All starches, You don't need them if your goal is to get down to 4-7 fucking Percent BodyFat.

1. Eat Tons of Green Veggies (Fiber)

2. Eat Lots of Healthy Fats ex. Steak, Flax Oil, E.v. OliveOil, Salmon, Fish Oils, etc. (Energy)

3. Eat TONS of Protein (Preserve Muscles)

4. DRINK 1 1/2 gallons of H20 a day AT LEAST.

Avoid ALL fruit drinks, Juices, rice, breads.

Eat carbos ONLY after a grueling Glycogen depleting workout.

You will have Tons of energy from the Healthy Fats,
Good digestion from the Fiber,
and great Muscle Hardness and Protection from the Protein.

Healthy Fats = Energy
Protein = Muscle Hardness, Muscle Protection
Fiber = Digestion, and various other health Benefits.


Healthy Fats, Lots of Fiber, And TONS of Protein. That's the key.

Not only will you DROP bodyfat while maintaing Muscle, but you will ALSO have an abundance of energy and your skin (complexion) will be looking great as well.

Example of a Day...

1. 3 servings of Whey/ 1 tablespoon of Flax Oil
2. 8 - 10oz London Broil Steak (Extra Lean)/ 1-2 cups Green Veggies.
3. Grilled Salmon/ 1-2 cups Green Veggies.
4. 3 servings of Whey/ 1 tablespoon of Flax Oil
5. 2 Cans of Tuna/ Chopped Onions/Celery/ 1 tablespoon of Safflower Mayonaise.
6. (Post Workout) MRP or 2 servings of Whey/10oz Orange Juice.
7. 8-10oz Extra Lean Steak/ 2 cups Veggies.

Breaks Down to about:
Protein 1.5 - 2 grams per lb of Bodyweight
Fat .5 - .75grams per lb of Bodyweight
Carbs (only post workout) 30-50 grams
Fiber in the form of Green Veggies - As much as Possible.

Supplements:

Do NOT take ANY FAT BURNERS...why? They will Surpress your appetite TOO much, You need to eat every 2 hours. If you take a fat burner you won't be up to it.

1 Multivitamin
Extra Zinc 30 - 50mgs
Fish Oil Caps
Flax Oil Liquid
200mcg Selenium
800mgs Folic Acid
800iu Vitamin E
2grams Vitamin C

WORKOUTS:

Staying ACTIVE!! is the KEY. ALWAYSSSS stay Active.

Lift 4 times a Week. Alternate Between Heavy Low Rep workouts, and High repetition Moderate Weight Workouts.

Cardio, 4-7 days a week, Alernate Between 20 min High Intensity (Jump Ropes, Sprints) and Low intensity for 45min - 1hour (Walking, Light Jogging, Jumping Jacks (lol) )



This DIET is NOT easy by Anymeans, It takes proper planning a day ahead of time. (You have to have the Steaks/ Veggies/ Chicken/ Salmon, Thawed out Before cooking them, Put stuff in Tupper Ware..you Just have to be Prepared.)
Be prepared to Go through at LEAST 1lb of lean Steak a day, and 10 servings of Whey Powder a day and TONS of Green Veggies a day. Be prepared to be going grocery shopping at least twice a week.

Like I said ths diet is not easy, But oh well, No one said this game is Easy.

But Remember if you can stick through it for 8 Grueling weeks, You'll be Satified at the End with your Amazing Results.

Good Luck.

p.s. NEVER mix Fat and Carbs at the Same meal.

Peace,

Crumcake.
Click to expand...
 
Oh a few thoughts - save the supplements for when you have lost weight and even with the addition of cardio (or more cardio) you hit a dead end. You need to leave something in reserve when your body slows down in the weight loss department.
 
great. Thanks. The main reason for the short fast is just so I can remember what it feels like to be hungry again.
 
Cyrex said:
great. Thanks. The main reason for the short fast is just so I can remember what it feels like to be hungry again.
Click to expand...


Oh believe me - I know just what you mean.
It's kinda like a rush, like a really good workout - until the pain sets in.
 
Cyrex said:
Hey all. I am interested in some suggestions on a very aggressive weight loss plan. I am currently very fat. I'm 6'3" weigh about 290 lbs with around 30% body fat. I tore my ACL in college playing football and have not been in shape since. My knee is currently healthy and I am ready to start training again. To start, I just want to just tear down my weight and lose as much as possible in the next 16 weeks. For short-term motivation I am doing a competition with other guys in my office. We are to lose 10% of our body weight in 12 weeks and keep it off for another 4 weeks. Long term goal is to get down to 10% bf and build up to around 230lbs where I was before my knee injury, but first thing is first.

I want to do everything I can to win this competition at work. I am looking for recommendations on my diet to boost my metabolism. Obviously I will be trying to do as much cardio as time and mental toughness will allow, so I think I have my training plan covered, but I'm looking for suggestions on a diet plan that will boost my metabolism and keep it up there for a while.
I have some ephedra capsules left from before my injury as well as some xenedrine with ephedra, so I have that at my disposal for supplements (I will be under doctor supervision using them). Does anyone know where I can get anymore ephedra supplements? Also any recommendations on other 'helpers' would be nice. I was thinking of getting some liquid clen, but I am not sure if I want to take the legal risks of that route since my only option at the moment would be ordering online.

I digress. Back to the diet. For the first 2 days I am not going to be eating anything and drinking as much water as I can consume. This will server a few purposeses:
1) I don't remember when the last time I was really 'hungry' and want to know what that feels like again.
2) I haven't been drinking much water so if I replace my urge to eat with drinking water, I will be able to break into drinking more water quicker and drop my retained water sooner.

So one of my questions is will the fasting for a few days harm or help my metabolism? I assume it shouldn't do much for only 2 days of it, but does anyone have a recommendation on increasing or decreasing the fasting part?

Second, I have had great success previosly in 'kick starting' my metabolism with a ketonic diet for 2 weeks with 1 day in between where I break the diet and eat pizza or pasta to 'trick' my body into thinking all is normal and continue to burn fat. Is there futher research on the effectiveness of this? Is there a better strategy and how long can it last?

What has everyone else seen working for dramatic weight loss? Also are there any supplements that I might be able to use to help my progress? I do gain and lose weight fairly easily and lost near 60 lbs in a 2.5 month period so I know my body can do it, but I want every advantage over my competition.


Second, does anyone have any recommendations on post-competition? Again, my long term goal is to get to around 230 lbs with 10% bf. Should I try to get down to 8 or 9% before trying to bulk up? or is 15-18% good enough, start bulking up and then cut down once my lean body mass is around 215?

If anyone can refer me to any literature, or media to look at for assistance or their own personal opinion or experience I would be very thankful.
Click to expand...

I think making a competition out of it will help get you motivated for this long hard journey that lies ahead of you, but your going to have to want it for yourself not for others nor to win a bet. With that said there's alot of issues that needs to be address. First of all, your fasting strategy serves no purpose whatsoever. You said it yourself, "I assume it should'nt do much for only 2 days of it". So why do it?? It will only decrease your metabolism, not to mention, not being able to lift your d*ck to piss from lack of evergy. Second, drinking only water will benefit you extremely, but your bf is 30%, your not going to notice the loss of retained water, thats just not feasible yet. So yes, i do agree with just drinking water, but you need to get a diet going, where you eat 6-8 meals a day. Thats how you begin to get your metabolism up. You need to focus on 1.how many cals a day 2. only good, clean cals. I know starting a diet is like trying to quit smoking cold turkey, so for a month, allow yourself a cheat meal once a week, but when the urges stop, stop cheating. You said you had success with the ketonic diet. NOT a fan. Not even in my pre-contest diet(one week out) do i totally cut all carbs. What was your bodyfat at when you tried this strategy? Your doing some of the tricks that bodybuilders do for pre and post contest. This want, I repeat, want work with a bodyfat of 30. I wouldnt recommend this to anyone unless they're under 10%. I beleive your over complicating things. Focus on your diet before you try the tricks of the trade.
With your post comp question, it is really a personal preference, but i try not too go any higher than 12% all yr. long. I also beleive that the further you push down in bf, the better results your going to get when you come off.
As far as supplements for weight loss, there are so many of them, but i recommend a eca stack. Ephedrine, caffeine, asprin.
To recap

You definitely need to do some research formulating a sound diet. Also, just focus on sticking to the diet and not as much on strategizing, keep it simple. For best results, do your cardio in the morning on empty stomach. I dont know what your lifting routine is but it should be a routine focused on toning. Your not going to gain muscle while on a serious cutting diet. Take glutamine to help maintain muscle while on this diet, preferably after cardio and before bed.
You want dramatic weight loss, besides starving yourself(which will only work until you get hungry and gain all the weight back + some) get lipo or the surgery where they taple your stomach. All three strategies are dramatic :) , but in your situation, i feel you just need to stick to a diet and exercise and weight training program. If you want us to critique your diet, post it.
 
great thank you for your input 6_pak. I am still formulating my diet, I will post it here soon.
 
I don't suggest any fasting. Although limiting fasting to 2 days shouldn't be a problem people tend to think they can starve themselves skinny and your body just doesn't work like that. Basically when you deprive your body of energy like eating an extremely restricted diet it thinks you are starving. what little food you do eat is more likely to be stored as fat...remember, your body is in emergency mode trying to prevent starvation. You best bet for dropping BF relatively fast is to get on CKD. That should get you burning fat as a primary fuel.

This is a breakdown of what you'd want to do based on the spreadsheet by Mr. X. Basically follow this diet plan with lots of low-intensity cardio and you should see results.

Day Cal/day Fat Protein Carb
1 3306 312 124 Less Than 20 Grams
2 3132 261 196 Less Than 20 Grams
3 2958 214 259 Less Than 20 Grams
4 3480 271 261 Less Than 20 Grams
5 3132 244 235 Less Than 20 Grams
6 2958 214 259 Less Than 20 Grams
7 4524 50 226 792
 
I decided to go with a form of the CKD.
Right now I am definately in ketosis and in the last 4 days have lost about 12 pounds. A majority of that is water weight, but I've been trying to do at least 45 minutes of cardio every day with some very fast jump roping for 5 minutes to finish up + the lifting. My diet has consisted of hard boiled eggs, browned Hamburger + cheddar cheese, a broccli + steak stir fry, and a little flax seed oil.

I am beginning to plan out a better diet and prepare things in advance since I work from 7:00 a.m. to about 6:00p.m. every day in an office sitting down and sometimes longer
 
1 Multivitamin
Extra Zinc 30 - 50mgs
Fish Oil Caps
Flax Oil Liquid
200mcg Selenium
800mgs Folic Acid
800iu Vitamin E
2grams Vitamin C

whats the reason for the selenium, folic acid and zinc?
 
Read the 13 Weeks To Hardcore Fat Burning Diet article.

The best dieting program to cut on earth. Scientifically safe and researched. No craps such as low-carbs. Starchy carbs are extremely important for energy. Fat can't give you the energy for heavy weight lifting sessions. It uses muscle glycogen primarly.

Enjoy.
 
I really feel like I'm doing well on this right now. So far i'm down 14 lbs from 5 days ago. Yes, much of this is water weight, but according to my keto sticks I am constantly in ketosis (moderate or higher). I've been doing about 50 minutes of cardio every day this week and have been drinking near 3 gallons of water a day.
 
Cyrex said:
I really feel like I'm doing well on this right now. So far i'm down 14 lbs from 5 days ago. Yes, much of this is water weight, but according to my keto sticks I am constantly in ketosis (moderate or higher). I've been doing about 50 minutes of cardio every day this week and have been drinking near 3 gallons of water a day.
Click to expand...

WOW

Awesome.

Great job.
 
Good job! Generally, trace-low is what you want to shoot for on keto-stix. Any higher and you A) aren't drinking enough water or B)are eating more fat than necessary. Sounds like you have enough water so you might consider cutting back on some fat...especially after the initial day or so getting into keto. Lots of good info and dedicated forums on www.C-D-K.com

JoBu

velvett said:
WOW

Awesome.

Great job.
Click to expand...
 
JoBu said:
Good job! Generally, trace-low is what you want to shoot for on keto-stix. Any higher and you A) aren't drinking enough water or B)are eating more fat than necessary. Sounds like you have enough water so you might consider cutting back on some fat...especially after the initial day or so getting into keto. Lots of good info and dedicated forums on www.C-D-K.com

JoBu
Click to expand...

I think you mean
http://www.C-K-D.com/
Cyclical Ketogenic Diet
 
Thanks. I was wondering about the keto stix. I am definately getting enough water, but I also may be slightly diabetic too, although I have tested my blood sugar in the past (my father has a mild form of diabetes) and my blood sugar seems normal but that was before I was this fat. I will cut down on the fat a bit though and see what happens.
 
I would suggest not pigging out on the carb up. You should eat a good amount but try to not eat junk food like pizza, and ice cream. If you can't deal with not eating this shit then theres no point in dropping all this weight. Your just gonna gain it all back in time and feel even worse. When you get to 10% bf, then you can have these junkfood cheat meals. Remember CKD is mainly for people with low bodyfats who are trying to go even lower for competitions, and they can handle a little junk. Other then the Post workout shake after yoru depletion work out on friday where you should have dextrose (a high glycemic carb) and the meal after meal with some other moderatley high glycemic carbs, I would limit yourself to good low glycemic carbs like oatmeal, yams, brown rice, etc. Limit your fats during your carb up!

As for supps Ephedrine and Caffeine works good. You could also try some green tea extract, but stick to your diet and getting the cardio in is the key to fatloss.
 
Thanks :-)
so far i'm down 12 lbs.
I didn't pig out much at all on my carb up I had rice, pancakes, oatmeal, etc.
Today I did 75 minutes of cardio I took a progress pic to compare from January 2. I can tell a big difference already.
 
jan2jan10.jpg
 
Cyrex said:
Thanks :-)
so far i'm down 12 lbs.
I didn't pig out much at all on my carb up I had rice, pancakes, oatmeal, etc.
Today I did 75 minutes of cardio I took a progress pic to compare from January 2. I can tell a big difference already.
Click to expand...

Im sorry, Im confused now. which plan are you doing for the carb up?
Is it a weekly carb up? or just when you feel you loosing weight fast?
 
it's weekly. I officially started on Janaury 2. I did my carb up on Saturday since I will always be able to do a big workout on sundays.
 
Thanks. I think a lot of that area around my waste was probably water retention, but yes I can definately see results. The last 2 days i've hit the cardio hard. Last time I check my body comp (about 2 weeks ago) I had around 207 lbs of LBM so hopefully I can keep up above 200 with all this cardio.
Monday I did 75 minutes on the treadmill burned a little over 1100 calories (according to the treadmill's calculations) and Tuesday I did 65 minutes on the treadmill for somewhere over 1000 calories burned. I've been eating well, but probably not enough.
I will see if I can keep that up (over 1000 calories burned with cardio) at least through Friday.
I wonder how long someone could last doing this every day.


Also I have added some creatine to the mix for the ability to add in higher intensity intervals after being on there for 30 minutes or more. The last two days I have felt great afterwards. Monday I had a blueberry/protein smoothie which probably had more sugar than I need right now, but it was darn good and free :-)
 
Coming up on my carb up here tomorrow. WOOHOO i get to have rice, pancakes, and some Pink Lady apples (By far the best apple for eating raw).

Anyways as of today, after working out I am 283.3 Down from 298.6 on Jan 2. I have a wild workout planned for Sunday :-). Full body weight training, 30 min treadmill and 15 min jump roping (if I can find one long enough)
 
The fastest data for fat loss Ive seen is referred to in the Atkins book called the fat fast. In a nutshell two groups of individuals at a naval hospital where one ate nothing and lost 21lbs, if I remember correctly about only 7 lbs was fat the rest was lbm. THe second group consumed 90%fat 10% protein they lost 15lbs by hydro testing and 14.5lbs were fat with s slight loss of lbm at 0.5 lbs. I have done this with great results although I didnt weigh myself, the weight loss was dramatic.

Ive postulated a theory and thought and researched metabolism and how this seeming counterintuitive result could occur as I stated in an earlier thread. My hypothesis is this:

A medical fact is that insulin is the storage hormone and glucagon is the releasing hormone, they work in opposing regulation. Insulin overrides glucagon and makes it hard to release fat from cells when present so the key is to raise glucagon levels while keeping insulin to a minimum. This allows for ketosis where fat is broken down into ketone bodies and used for fuel. THat is one form of energy production and one route for the body to make energy. THe debate rages whether carbs are a better source energy source or are ketones and its route. Some studies suggest that they (ketone bodies) are in fact preferred by the brain than glucose as studied in epilepsy research. For sake of this theory I shall use this to explain my hypothesis. I think that if one was to seriously research the literature they would come to the same conclusion. SO in a nutshell, fat and later its derivatives ARE the preferred energy source for the human body. This seems counterintuitive as this whole hypothesis and fasting data suggest but Ive researched the hell out of metabolism and its pathways. I have a degree in cardiovascular techonology and work for the largest cardiology group in Seattle. I have a patient scheduled one per hour with most tests, mainly echocardiograms take me on average 20 minutes I have alot of internet surfing to do so I have a requisite knowledge and understanding on how to read medical literature and research and how to interpret it. So back to my hypothesis; we shall state as one point of my thesis(I know theres plenty of room for debate) that fat is the preferred energy route. I know counterintuitive as it sounds, but think simply: if evolutionarily speaking we would evolve the most efficient route for energy storage for the inevitable caveman famines, we dont store it as carbs. We store only a few thousand calories of glucose in our muscles, presumably for fight for flight response. That is quick energy needed to outrun a sabretooth tiger attack, but shortlived energy with cardiovascular results. I believe that is where the great myth of carbs being the preferred energy source. If it fuels us in quick burst, it must be the best fuel. But that doesnt mean its the preferred energy source as most draw as a conclusion. Again I point to the fact that we dont store glucose for energy purposes in caloric deprivation situation faced by cavemen. In times of lack of food sources fat is used as an energy, it packs more energy per gram and we have adapted a mechanism that is quite natural and evoltionary in nature. So that is a simple argument for the fat being better than carbs for energy although it is quite a complex theory, but I wont get too deep, nor cite for sake of brevity. The fight or flight response legacy of evolution has now in modern human lifestyles is a leftover and not as necessary and has damaging effects to the cardiovascular system when we are in state of stress. THat is the theory behind why a stressed out person is at a higher risk for heart attack which is a quite lengthy explanation I dont want to get too deep in. But in short insulin is very damaging to the endothelial cells lining causing fatty streaks moving on to calcification and in diabetics peripheral arterial disease where they amputate body parts in late stage. Diabetic angiograms, which is where we shoot a dye into the coronary arteries(heart arteries) and then fluoroscoped (xrayed) and there is a significant greater chance of damaged arteries, it looks like someone sprayed crap in a tube and it scatters along the walls. Im getting way off track, but if those plaques rupture a clot will form just like when you get a scrape, your body doesnt know the difference they just sense the release of rupture and send clotting factors blocking blood flow. Instant heart attack, the heart muscle downstream from the newly formed clot doesnt get blood and just as important waste products are not carried away resulting in muscle necrosis or myocardial infarction or simply known as a heart attack (this differs from electrical heart attacks, but that commonly occurs as a resulted of muscle irritation whre electricity flow of the heart is altered causing energy loops and a fatal arrythmia). So there is ample medical facts about the negative effects of insulin. And what causes insulin release, carbs and sugars. Hardly an argument for carbs being the best energy source since it encourages heart disease. Now of course many will never have a heart attack some would say, but in Vietnam autopsies of young men killed revealed that even at early age it was seen that fatty growths had already formed. Many experts say that this is response to refined foods such as pasta, bread anything that breaks down the cell walls of plants making the carbs easier to be digest being introduced into the modern human diet. This is indexed by whats called the glycemic number, the higher the number the faster its absorbed, the faster the blood sugar rises, the faster insulin is released and to a greater amount with obvious negative cardiovascular effects. Insulin is doubly dubious as it also stimulates hunger even after eating. Just think about how easy it is to overeat pasta and then raid the fridge for more. Again evolutionary relic, but think about, when a caveman finds a bunch of fruit in season he must eat as much as possible before it rots. SO insulin stimulates more eating and some have postulated that alcoholism may be traced to fermented fruit as it rots, logical but debatable as most things are. So as logic dictates excess insulin is bad, it follows that a high carb diet is bad especially processed carbs (breads and pasta) and is not necessary if your muscle is tanked already with the few thousand calories of glucose needed for the fight or flight response. Again many would argue that exercise depletes the glucose and that we need carbs for that reason. THat is in my mind a myth because one important metabolic pathway rarely known to the great majority of people. ITs called NEOGLUCOGENESIS. The word broken down neo (alternate but similar) gluco (glucose) and finally genesis (creation of). This pathway is glucose production based on protein breakdown and is central to my theory as to why the participants lost twice as much fat on 1000cal day 90% fat 10% protein diet(modified fast) as did the group who ate nothing over the ten day period. Again think that caveman relied mainly on animals and their natural fat and protein. This is still true in modern times with cultures in artic regions that survive just fine without carbs, in fact with less cardiovascular disease than cultures where carbs have been introduced. They say it takes about twenty years for a culture to exhibit the same rate of disease once sugars and processed carbs are introduced.
So what have I said so far:
1. fat is the preferred energy source not carbs.
2. carbs are not needed for glucose storage after exercise b/c of a metabolic pathway of NEOGLUCOGENESIS.

Simply put most carb proponents are not even aware of that metabolic pathway and it doesnt figure into their thinking, so any of their theories arguing for carbs leaves out an important piece of the puzzle. We dont need processed carbs period.

So fat is like metabolic gold for the caveman and is the difference between survival in times of famine. They just didnt have the opportunity to store as much as modern human with supermarkets and year round fruit and carbs galore. They unlocked the key to fat loss as an energy source quite easily as this why it evolved that way. SO how do we take advantage of this and how do we explain the amount of fat doubled to with the 1000 cal day 90% fat and 10% (15 lbs on average with 14.5 lbs of fat loss with only 0.5% of lbm) versus the complete starvation (no calories over the ten day study with 21 lbs lost and only 7lbs fat the rest lbm/muscle)???? My hypothesis is it is due to largely overlooked processed of neoglucgenesis ( again production of glucose from protein) or in this case from lbm/muscle. Logic dictates that this metabolic pathway also allows for insulin production. Thats the key you see the muscle being burned hampers the glucagon (energy release hormone; insulin storage hormone and insulin overides glucagon) ratio, thus consuming the fat diet alters the insulin/glucagon ratio to a more favorable environment for fat loss. So you may try that diet and those principles and compare your results with other diets as you progress with weight loss. I think the results will speak for themselves. Ive rambled too long. I know this controversial, but its damn interesting to think about even if you dont believe it!!
 
wow. i think that needs a binding and a title page :-)

very interesting, but I definately do not want to starve myself I am happy with my loss so far and will continue to work hard and eat as I have been for another 3 weeks, after that I will move to something a little more well rounded with a wider variety of foods. I hope to stay about 205 lbs LBM by the time im down to 15% bf
 
Cyrex said:
wow. i think that needs a binding and a title page :-)

very interesting, but I definately do not want to starve myself I am happy with my loss so far and will continue to work hard and eat as I have been for another 3 weeks, after that I will move to something a little more well rounded with a wider variety of foods. I hope to stay about 205 lbs LBM by the time im down to 15% bf
Click to expand...

Thanks! Maybe I'll write a book someday hahahaha! Just kidding, I just had too much time on my hands last night to write it. Lots more details to get into, but I dont think I'll finish it.

I just started that diet today after writing that. I'll post how I feel and how dramatic the weight loss, although I never weigh myself, Ill just rely on how my clothes fit LOL!

Sounds like you have a good strategy so far and Im sure youll have great results afterall it is a somewhat drastic diet to follow and is not necessary if you not worried about time.

Good luck! Im sure you'll stick with it. If you have any questions though I'll try to answer them about metabolism. :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
 
cyrex said:
Hey all. I am interested in some suggestions on a very aggressive weight loss plan. I am currently very fat. I'm 6'3" weigh about 290 lbs with around 30% body fat. I tore my ACL in college playing football and have not been in shape since. . . .
Click to expand...

Status update:

i'm down to about 240 and my scale tells me anywhere between 14 and 16% bf. My digi cam is broke, but I'll try to get some after pics soon.
 
actually I got down to about 235 or so by September (my wedding).
I've since been working out hard and trying to put some muscle on.
 
You can do this brother. I am in the same boat as you.
I am trying to diet and lose around 60 pounds. I am about 5"10 and 257 pounds. I do have a significant amount of muscle and am now just trying to lose the fat covering it.

Diet is everything. If you are not following a clean diet, than all the cardio and training becomes somewhat ineffective.

As far as unbiased advice, I tend to go to bodybuilding.com.
They have some great writers there that really provide sound advice and motivation. Check out the transformations page. It always gets me motivated.

If you are looking to haev a challenge, count me in.

Good luck bro.



cyrex said:
I decided to go with a form of the CKD.
Right now I am definately in ketosis and in the last 4 days have lost about 12 pounds. A majority of that is water weight, but I've been trying to do at least 45 minutes of cardio every day with some very fast jump roping for 5 minutes to finish up + the lifting. My diet has consisted of hard boiled eggs, browned Hamburger + cheddar cheese, a broccli + steak stir fry, and a little flax seed oil.

I am beginning to plan out a better diet and prepare things in advance since I work from 7:00 a.m. to about 6:00p.m. every day in an office sitting down and sometimes longer
Click to expand...
 
ILOVEMYWIFE said:
You can do this brother. I am in the same boat as you.
I am trying to diet and lose around 60 pounds. I am about 5"10 and 257 pounds. I do have a significant amount of muscle and am now just trying to lose the fat covering it.

Diet is everything. If you are not following a clean diet, than all the cardio and training becomes somewhat ineffective.

As far as unbiased advice, I tend to go to bodybuilding.com.
They have some great writers there that really provide sound advice and motivation. Check out the transformations page. It always gets me motivated.

If you are looking to haev a challenge, count me in.

Good luck bro.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the support, I've actually already come quite a long way already (this was from last year)
 
Update:
Still 6'4" ;)
I'm down to 256 lbs 16.5% bodyfat. I feel great. I really need to build up my inner pecs more so you can notice some seperation in my pecs. They look like jello right now, but sure don't feel that way when I'm flexing them.


I'm squatting 405 4 sets of 8 was not much of a problem tonight.
Deadlifting 475 3 sets of 6 yesterday
Bench is only 275 3 sets of 6-8 (forgot what I did last week)
Barbell rows are up to 225 4 sets of 8 without much problem. Last few reps on last 2 sets are tough but I get them done.



Now for the funny story:
Tonight was leg night. I started with squats, then did front squats, leg curls everything up till then was like any other night when I'm lifting. Then I head back over to the free weight section where there is a leg press machine/hip sled. I toss on 6 plates (45lb) on both sides and sit down and toss out about 10 reps. This middle aged couple were about 4 feet from me doing situps on a decline bench and started freaking out and yelling "Oh my god look at all that weight!" I was quite embarassed and shrugged it off saying its really not that much because it's at an angle hoping they would leave. So I toss on 3 more plates on each side and sit down and I hear them whispering to each other (oh my gosh, how much weight is that? Is that normal to be able to lift that much weight?) So hoping they would leave soon, I just sat there and stretched. 5 minutes go by and they are still standing there staring at me. I had to go to the bathroom and leave the area completely for them to stop waiting for me to do my lift. How fricken annoying is that. Yeah it's flattering when someone there who actually knows what they are doing compliments you on some good reps or something, but these people that are obviously new to the place freaking out cause some 6'4" 260 lb guy is pushing up 810 lbs on a leg press machine as if it was out of the ordinary is just plain annoying and rude. If they had only stayed to watch me do them 1 legged with 630 lbs on there LOL.
 
Nice work Cy!! Moving along very well! Dude, might want to lay off the shrugs unless you want your entire head to be swallowed up by your traps soon, LOL... jk, obviously... they're getting huge from the front view! Midsection looks better... keeps getting smaller!

Good story too! Yeah people need to mind their own business... wearing headphones helps me stay focused though!
 
Nice weight... but at the expensive of you're lively hood: Typing on Elite... not worth it, lol.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever tried a 405 load for shrugs... I'd deff need straps for more than 2 reps I'm sure :)

Do you get an insaine forearm pump on back day (doing rows, shrugs... ect.)? I do without trying, I think it's a good thing, but I don't want my forearms outpacing my bi and tri growth... lol, then I'd eventually look like Popeye!
 
I do! I noticed it when I did back on monday and figured i'd so some forearm curls just for the heck of it. I do closeup magic as hobby so I value my fingers and hands quite a bit, but one of the things I do is tear a deck of cards in half which requires a good grip. I can just about tear a deck in half and then in half again stacked up (108 cards by then including the jokers)
 
but can you put it back together . . .
that is the true test.

I do a routine where I tear 1 signed card (both front and back) into 4 pieces. Then i slowly and visually reattach them piece by piece and hand the card out to the spectator to keep. If they ask how I do it, I will take the rest of the deck and tear it in half once and then again (I'm still working on that part but I've done it right 2 times so far) and then I say LOTS of practice.
 
Yes, but then my boss yelled at me cuz I wasn't fast enough with the Scotch Tape.... he wanted to read it while on the Ivory Throne.








:lmao:
 
now, now... I believe typing "post whore" to state the obvious after an amusing post is much worse than the post that was pointing out the said, "post whore."




:FRlol: ok I'm done... seriously
 
haha you have a very good point.

Progress update:
Last night was chest/tricep night. I was able to bench 20 lbs more than last week on the flat bb bench
I was also able to do 110 lb db bench for 4 sets of 6 which is something I had never done before

Not great numbers for someone my size but I'm still making progress.
 
NICE bro... following my lead with the heavy DB press work I see ;) jk.. that's sweet seriously... I'm hopping to work up to the 100's soon for a few reps!

20lbs more on your flat barbell bench press is damn good for just 1 week! Keep doin' what you're doin'!

How's the diet going for you? ... it's kicking my ass mentally (well maybe not just the diet... other things, ok.. it's probably not the diet... lol, nevermind I just had a quick therapy session with myself... wow I need help!)
 
I'm not really on a diet. I'm just on standard maintenance right now. Or at leas that's what I've been telling myself for the last year. Basically eating pretty clean with SOME room for improvement but what I'm not doing is:

No fast food
No sugary treats
No baked goods (cookies, cake, etc)
No soda
1-2 gallons of water per day
5-6 meals per day
high protein
Low sugar

the rest kinda just falls in place with my natural eating habits and preferences. When I stop drinking soda and eating fast food I lose weight pretty easily.
 
I just did the math. It looks like I've lost 45 lbs of fat and gained about 15 lbs of muscle in the last year . . .

Not too bad

It looks like I might be able to hit the 255 lb mark with 10% bodyfat by July if I go ahead and dive in and start up a cycle in a few weeks.

TEMPTING . . . .
 
15 lbs of muscle in a year is damn good... but loosing 45lbs of fat along with it... Extradinary! ... or as the Guiness commercials say "BRILLIANT!" lol

cycle, eh? how many years you've been back lifting consistantly?
 
before that, lifting very seriouly before my knee injury about 9 months before since I was 17


so basically seriously lifting for 7 years with a 9 month break (which did have some regular physical therapy) and some 2-3 week breaks.
 
nice... oh yeah HS Football, right? Forgot about that... excellent.

What have you been thinking about running and how long? Or have you already got the supplies, or haven't planned it yet?
 
Test E 125mg Shots 1-10
Sust 250 125mg Shots 1-10
For wk 1-5
wk6-10(or 12) 250mg Test E 2x/week

Arimidex .5mg EOD wk 1-16
Nolvadex for PCT (maybe clomid also)

Yes I have everything I need right down to the alcohol swabs

Explanation on the first 5 weeks:
I happened upon 5mL of QV Test 250 that I don't plan on getting more of, since test is test I'm gonna use it to hopefully get a kickstart from some of the quicker releasing esters and just to use the shit up so I'll mix each 1mL shot half and half with Test E and the Sust and when the Sust is gone, just 1 full cc of Test E
 
I think I'll take the plunge on Sunday.

I've done a TON of research. Actually considered doing this 2.5 years ago or so but decided not to after reading these forums (i don't thin I was a member back then). But now I think I'm old enough. I know I have the dedications and seriousness, my diet is satisfactory right now and shouldn't take much modifications to hit where I need to be with it. I realize I could probably wait and make decent gains without, but I'd rather make those gains sooner and see how it goes.

I'm curious to see how it will go, how much muscle I'll gain. Will i gain more fat, lose more fat? How much of my gains will I keep? etc
None of this info can be certain until I do it so here I go . . . :-)
 
Yes you have... I know you're well read on the topics you will decide to pursue, it should be quite the experiment!! I can't wait to!! but not for awhile probably... Have you thought about keeping a journal in the "My Steriod Cycle" for it? (please do ;) )
 
I have considered it :-) I probably will
i'm working on my program so hopefully I'll have it up and running before I'm half way through the cycle..


As of now I'm about 85% sure I'm gonna start on Sunday night. I'm pretty excited about it. I realize I could wait a bit, but then again using gear is really cheating in the sense that we are breaking the rules to gain an advantage over everyone else. So if you are going to cheat, when do you cheat? I say you cheat whenever you feel that the act of cheating WILL actually give you an advantage over not cheating. I think I'm to the point where I will be able to benefit from going on a cycle. Do I think it is the most efficient use of my gear? no definitely not. But what do I have to lose if I do everything by the book? Some money. I'm prepared to lose some money if this doesn't work. Of course I'm prepared for a lot of things:
Getting caught and the legal implications
Getting an infection
Permanently ruining my natural testosterone production
Injuring tendons and/or ligaments
Acne
Hair Loss
Excess hair growth
muscle soreness at injection spots
Getting FUCKING HUGE
Getting Strong as an OX
etc etc

I know all the risks.
I know all the benefits.

I think it's definitely time to put my research to the test.

I'm especially intrigued because I have always had a natural interest in biology, chemistry, endochrinology, and other sciences since I was very young. Had I not gotten a computer when I was 5 years old and had a 4th grade teacher that taught me how to write programs in BASIC on an Apple II I probably would have gone to med school and gone into medicine.

I'm not scared of the needles or injections. When I got my bloodwork done a few weeks ago I almost asked the nurse if I could draw the blood myself just for fun! haha

anyways I do have a thread here if you haven't seen it:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452718

I was asking for some input on my diet, but I wasn't really able to give a good typical day of what I eat. For the most part lately I've been eating boiled eggs (usually 1 whole and 3 or 4 just the white), or Cheerios or Kashi All Bran for breakfast

a couple more eggs for 2nd meal + some shaved turkey


Lunch which will consist of either shaved turkey and provolone cheese, baked or grilled chicken, brown rice, steamed broccoli, a handfull of raw baby carrots, or a sweet potato. (of course I don't eat all of this, but approximately 500 calories worth of food made up from things like those listed here)

Meal 3 is typically a muslce milk shake (about 300-400 calories depending on how thick I make it)

Meal 4 has typically been whatever I had leftover from lunch

Meal 5 or 6 is dinner which is similar to lunch but I mix it up with steak, hamurger, fish, stirfry with chicken or sirloin.

then a protein shake usually postworkout or before bed depending on if I workout that day

Dinners for the last 3 nights have been the following

Wed: Garlic chicken with brocolli and some green onions and brown rice with low sodium soy sauce for seasoning.

Thurs: My own creation (mix of brocolli beef and mongolian beef)
Sirloin steak cut up into small bite sized pieces stirfried with brocolli, green onion and mushroom, using a soy sauce, beef stalk, red wine sauce that I came up with. Some crushed red pepper, garlic and a dash of sesame oil. Served on brown rice. This was absolutely amazing. Best meal I have had in a LONG time.

Tonight: I've gotta go to a local pizza place to take my wife and her sister (visiting) so I'm not sure what I'm gonna eat there. I might just take 2 glucorell and have a slice or two of whatever they order. Speaking of that I'm gonna post a new thread about that in the diet section :-)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You're going to be ...


:freak:ishly HUGE in a few months! You'll do well for sure bro. Hopefully the beefed up metabolism will burn off plenty of fat too and you'll be all set for summer!

I know what you mean about being interested from a young age about basically the medical field. I've pondered with the idea many times about switching out of finance to it... it's just so damn interesting I love it!!! But I guess that's why EF came into my life :) lol

Oh yeah... I posted in that link! haha.

So are you going to have HCG on hand... in case your nuts are the size of chick peas? (as well as the Test. reason, to bring back up to "par" quickly)
 
HCG is the one thing I do not have on hand and would kinda like to get a hold of not for planned use necessarily, but incase I do notice some dramatic shrinkage. Kinda tough to get when your source goes AWOL, anyways that's another discussion for another time and at another place :-)
 
Yeah just in case would be good... OH It's SUNDAY, did you shoot your first yet?!?!
haha, i know exactly what you mean!! I almost decided to place an order, damn glad I held off!
 
bumpety, BUMP.

So regarding your diet: Would you say you are eating "maintenance," "bulk," or "reducing calories?"

I know you want to gain muscle and loose fat (as we all want to :) ) Just curious as to how your diet is especially with adding some Test to the mix!
 
Not sure at the moment really. Still eating the same types of food, but I haven't tallied up the calories for a few days. I really need to. My guess is i'm under maintenance right now, but when I get a chance to tally them up, I'll readjust to get to maintenance (not including my workouts) for the rest of this week. Then I will bump it up about 200 calories a week until I'm done with my cycle. Hopefully that will allow me to lose a little more fat from my working out energy expenditure, and get to a point where as I'm feeling the effects of the test, bump up the caloric intake to a point where I can grow some nice lean muscle.

I've asked a few questions on here to this effect:

"Is it good to start a Test E only cycle with a 'cutting diet' and ramp up to a bulking diet to finish it off since test e takes about 4 weeks to kick in."

I've gotten some negative responses from some vets on this one, but I don't they were backed by experience or anything scientific, but only habit of beginning day 1 with the same diet you will follow till the last day of your cycle. I feel pretty comfortable with my scientific background and it seems to make perfect sense that eating just a little below maintenance at the beginning of a cycle will allow you to lose some fat without much muscle loss (very little cardio), and by ramping up calories to bulk, allow your body to get used to the extra calories slow enough, and once the test kicks in you make some lean gains and at a minimum, if you gain fat you will only gain what you lost in the beginning with a net gain of nearly 100% muscle.


Example numbers

Weight 250
BF 15%
LBM 212.5
Let's assume a 16 week cycle start to PCT (8 weeks on Test E with 4 weeks of PCT starting 2 weeks after last shot)
Let's assume maintenance is 250x12 = 3000 calories
Let's assume workout 5 days/week burning 700 calories extra per day
Let's assume the end result is 15 lbs of muscle gained between weeks 4-12. avg 2 lb/week.
Let's assume only fat is lost and no muscle is gained for weeks 1-4
We will start week 1 at 2400 calories and incrementing 150Cal/day every week up until week 10 then on week 11 we will decrement 150Cal/day every week until PCT
Week 1 of cycle eating 2400 calories on average per day
After week 1: we lose 1.4 lbs of fat

Extrapolate this to week 10 and we have these stats:
Weight 258.3lbs 14%bf 10 lbs of MUSCLE gained 1.71 lbs of FAT LOST

Week 16:
Weight 265.6lbs 14%bf 16 lbs of MUSCLE gained 0.40 lbs of Fat Gained


I've got a nice excel spreadsheet that has all of this, but here are the trends I see:

Fat
At week 6 we have a peak fat loss of 3.74 lbs (33.76 lbs of fat) then we start gaining some fat.
At week 11-12 we are right were we started with fat lbs, but we've gained muscle so this is ok. By week 16, we've netted a gain of .4 lbs of fat ending up at 37.10 lbs of body fat from 37.5 lbs of body fat dipping as low as 33.76 lbs of body fat

Explanation on fat levels:
There is a big caloric deficit to start and then we even out to maintenance around week 4-5 (perfect timing)
We get to a max caloric surplus around week 10 (great cause this is the last day of peak test levels).
We then go back down to week 16 to a caloric deficit of 337 calories per day to shed off some of the fat gained during the cycle.


Muscle:
We don't start growing muscle at all until during week 4-5. This is for 2 reasons. 1) we are at a natural plateau as everyone is when they use steroids :wink: and 2) because we have a caloric deficit in our diet.

Assuming we gain 16 lbs of muscle between weeks 4 and 8 (when testosterone levels are high and we have a caloric surplus) this increases our daily maintenance rate since we now have more muscle that needs fuel but we are still increasing calories to week 10 and continue with a caloric surplus up until week 13-14 where it finally dips below [new] maintenance.

From start to finish on our pyramid diet we have gained 16 lbs of VERY LEAN muscle. Only .4 lbs of fat gained in a 16 week period.

Total weight going from 250 lbs to 265.6 and body fat dropping a full 1%
 
haha... yes they may actually "notice" lack of productivity, but...

You could always pull the "It makes me work harder when I work" card ;)
 
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