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Accomodating Resistance for Bodybuilders

b fold the truth

Elite Strongman
Platinum
Here are a few articles that can help with the basic understanding on how accomodating resistance helps powerlifters and athletes, with a few pics so you get the idea on how to set them up.

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_127resist.html
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls01.htm
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls6.htm
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls15.htm

I have been thinking for the past few weeks about how a bodybuilder and a powerlifter could possibly cross-train. Although not fully possible for most people, it is possible to pick up a few fine points from both perspectives. I have always believed in hard, heavy, and compound movements for size and strength. Untill recently, I have been only training for size and strength. The past several months I have been training for function.

One of the major aspects of training for function is the different types of special strengths that an athlete needs. Maximal strength, strength endurance, speed strength, explosive strength, and accelerating strength are the major special strengths. The best programs for strength and function will cover all of these aspects in my opinion.

As I set out on my journey to become a better athlete I was set up with a training program based upon the Westside Barbell methods. After weeks of questioning of the system, I began to see results. Months later, I am still seeing results. Recently I have really pushed the envelope of accomodating resistance on my squats. I am working to increase my explosiveness to a much greater level on all of my lower body activities.

Something then hits me. When I was a bodybuilder, many moons ago, I would always take my reps super slow because I believed that the negative portion of the lift was the part that made me grow. I even added some negatives to my routine from time to time. I began to think back on all of the things that I used to do as a bodybuilder: drop sets, negatives, forced reps, forced negatives, heavy weight on the negative and my partner would take weights off for the positive, etc...

WSB advocates the use of bands and chains to help with accomodating resistance. Ever notice that you can quarter squat 500, parallel squat 400, and full squat 300? If you like to do full squats (like myself) and you can only handle 300 at the bottom, then the top portion of your squat isn't really working anything. If you were to add 200lbs of band tension to that full squat...you would have 300 at the bottom and 500lbs at the top...making the squat a more productive exercise for the entire body.

Ever wonder why your back seems to be too weak to do squats or deads? Is it being properly strengthened? That one time that you go for a new personal record on the squat (parallel) and you really push yourself with 400lbs...and your back is only used to handling 300lbs on the top portion...you end up with an injury. Your body was not used to using the 400lbs because you could only do a full squat with 300lbs.

People do partial deads out of the rack to help with their deadlift. The main reason is that they feel that they can pull more weight which will give more muscle mass in the upper back area, traps, and just all over. Why not pull from the floor? Many people will not pull off the floor because their back can not handle the same amount of weight straight off the floor. It would be nice to only have to pull 300 from the floor yet be holding 500 at the top. Kills two birds with one stone.

Flat bench press: the weight increases as the exercise gets easier.

Overhead press: same thing...maybe you could possibly do behind the neck presses again for the first time in years because you might only be pressing the 45lb bar off of your shoulders...yet be able to have 200lbs on the bar at the top.

Standing Bar Curls: decided to go to cables and concentration curls to allow for a full contraction? Add the bands to the bar for constant tension.

Think about this...everytime you lower the bar...the bands are pulling you down. When you squat with bands...the bands pull you down to the floor just as a partner assisted forced negative would. With the bands, you can choose how much the negative will be though and not have to rely on a partner. The negative resistance lessens up as your joints (knees, elbows, shoulders, etc...) become in a more vaulnerable position too.

Pure explosiveness. Developing explosiveness will not only make your lifts stronger...it will make you a better athlete no matter what your venue is. When I do box squats and have over 300lbs of tension on the bar...the bands will either pin me to the box or I will be explosive enough to come back up from a dead stop. This explosiveness is the same as what I do when I shoot my hips to filp a 1,000 lb tire, full squat, from a 3 point stance on the football line, etc...

Think about explosiveness like this. Remember the last time you were doing a bench press, close grip, overhead press, squat, deadlift, etc...and got to your sticking point and got stuck? If you were more explosive through the positive of that lift...you would have blown straight through your sticking point.

The use of chains is not something that I can fully comment on at the moment because I have not used them to their fullest extent. They still provide the explosive positive training but not the negative resistance. The chains load and deload through every rep hence you lift more weight as your leverages become more efficient.

It is also good to note that they are very therapeutic, good for stretching, and can be used while on the road. They can easily be packed away in your suitcase and taken into any gym or simply used in a motel room. I also use them to help me stretch and warm up before a contest.

Here are some links to my training with bands...

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=135625

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=133506

B True
 
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BUMP...

B True
 
Sounds good in theory; isokinetic training.

However, I don't think it works in practicality. Not everyone locks out as much as they lift off the ground.

You're assuming a linear relation between the angle in a particular ROM. Different people have different strength curves.

It might work better with single jointed movements like barbell curls however.

Interesting.

-Zulu
 
WSB methods are based solely on these methods.

B True
 
B Fold: did you buy the videos off of WSB on accomodating resistence, or did you just try it off of reading the articles? Im thinking about getting the video's to see exactly how it is done (although your pics do help)
 
The videos show a lot more than you can read. I saw those guys flying with the weights and the bands and thought that they were easy....till I got some bands.

I do suggest them...maybe if nothing else but just for a variable in your training.

B True
 
I think this is a good post...and well thought out. I don't necessarily agree that the bands would help on every exercise...but it could on some.

Most of the bodybuilders I know don't usually like to focus on negatives...but when they do it is simply for a change in their program. I think that the bands would be beneficial for that, and also to provide a new degree of soreness. I did them on box squats for the first time on Friday and I am more sore than I thought I was going to be. :)

I think the bands could be used to help with stretching (like you said), and on some major exercises...Ex: bench press, squat, deadlift, etc. I think that using bands on the exercises for the pretty muscles wouldn't really provide much of a difference than just doing a few sets of negatives with the dumbbells or whatever that person may be using.

I am going to get some simply because I like the variation in my training and I also like the added resistance every now and then.

Good post.
 
"WSB methods are based solely on these methods.
"

Could you quote any relevant information which might answer my questions? I"m very curious to know why the isokinetic way of training would be superior to regular isotonic training.

I agree it is very interesting for variety's sake though.

The thing is, there seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that it works, but is there any empirical evidence?

Thanks,

-Zulu
 
ZZuluZ said:
Sounds good in theory; isokinetic training.

However, I don't think it works in practicality. Not everyone locks out as much as they lift off the ground.

You're assuming a linear relation between the angle in a particular ROM. Different people have different strength curves.

It might work better with single jointed movements like barbell curls however.

Interesting.

-Zulu

This style of training allows for people to work with their strength curve. The main reason why people get stuck at the lock out of the bench press is because that portion is rarely ever worked. The use of bands and chains work that motion.

People may not be able to lock out as much as they can pull off the ground on a deadlift...but with lighter weights and the use of accomodating resistance...they will learn to develop the speed and explosiveness to push through those sticking points.

I'm not really assuming a linear angle or ROM for an exercise...but the squat should be that way, deadlifts about the same, the flat bench press is a straight line motion as well as overhead presses.

Accomodating resistance is resistance that accomodates to the body's natural strength curve. As the exercise gets easier...the bands accomodate with more resistance.

B True
 
ZZuluZ said:
"WSB methods are based solely on these methods.
"

Could you quote any relevant information which might answer my questions? I"m very curious to know why the isokinetic way of training would be superior to regular isotonic training.

I agree it is very interesting for variety's sake though.

The thing is, there seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that it works, but is there any empirical evidence?

Thanks,

-Zulu

There are lots of big guys at the WSB club, they also have some VERY strong people there. There are several bodybuilders who train there with them for several months out of the year.

Please read the article links that I posted in my original post, they will probably explain the reason behind accomodating resistance than I can.

I have been doing these types of training for a while now and it amazes me how much harder they make the exercise. When doing the bench press I can normally push it off my chest (with a struggle) and once I pass my sticking point it just flyes up to a lockout. With the bands, I can get past my sticking point and the exercise gets harder where it used to get easier. The use of accomodating resistance makes the ENTIRE exercise more useful. You can do make the entire exercise a difficult one...not just where your sticking point is.

B True
 
Inspiring post! I knew that a chain is as strong as the weakest link, but now we can train our weak links using chains...
 
I went back and read all four articles...all of which I had already read, although it had been a while.

It obviously works. However I'm not convinced it will work for everyone.

For example: Most people fail 6 inches of their chest. The initial drive off the chest and the lockout are the strongest positions. How can bands and chains help with this?

They assume that you're weakest of your chest, a bit stronger in the middle and the strongest at the lockout.

If that's not true [it is not for most people] then you're in effect doing a supramaximal isometric at the top or still not working the bottom of the lift to its full potential.

Just starting some discussion.

Great thread idea.

-Zulu
 
ZZuluZ said:
I went back and read all four articles...all of which I had already read, although it had been a while.

It obviously works. However I'm not convinced it will work for everyone.

For example: Most people fail 6 inches of their chest. The initial drive off the chest and the lockout are the strongest positions. How can bands and chains help with this?

They assume that you're weakest of your chest, a bit stronger in the middle and the strongest at the lockout.

If that's not true [it is not for most people] then you're in effect doing a supramaximal isometric at the top or still not working the bottom of the lift to its full potential.

Just starting some discussion.

Great thread idea.

-Zulu

Most people fail at mid point of the bench press because that is where their body is trained to fail. That is the point in which the triceps take over the pressing movement. Many people also fail there because of technique problems...including myself.

When you find the correct band tension for your weak point of the press then you can work to correct your problem. Still...if your speed on that press was faster...you would blow through that weak point and you would not get stuck there.

The problem I was originally trying to adress was that when you get past your sticking point and the exercise gets easier...bands and chains can make the full exercise more productive.

For a bodybuilder, the "semi-forced negative" that you get from the bands can really help you grow. It really accentuates the negative portion of every lift.

I do not have all of the answers and probably can not answer your questions fully...because I just don't know. What I do know is that it works for me and for everyone else that I know who has used them properly.

B True
 
bump...
 
where do you get these bands from? I think it will help me a lot in my explosive squats for vertical leap training, as I tend to slow down at the top.
 
It was brought to my attention by Arioch, that isokinetic methods of training are NOT suitable for individual strength curves, but rather for the biomechanical strength curve.

BTW, strong negative resistance may be a plus to bodybuilders, but the elongated eccentric will result in far long recuperation times.

-Zulu
 
bump...
 
How does accomodating resistance theory ala Westside differ from variable resistance theory ala Nautilus?
 
Jacob Creutzfeldt said:
How does accomodating resistance theory ala Westside differ from variable resistance theory ala Nautilus?

Ya know...I really don't know much about Nautilus or variable resistance theory. I think that many variables must come together and then change often to make one grow...even the WSB principles are based on constant change, but the plan stays the same.

Spatterson, Hannibal...can you chime in here?

B True
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ZZuluZ
but the elongated eccentric will result in far long recuperation times.
__________________________________________________

During an eccentric movement muscle fibers are attempting a contraction, yet are stretching. Perhaps this is causing more damage or tension per fiber.
 
I normally use bands on squats for every workout...but WSB cycles the use of bands on the bench press 3 weeks on then to chains. The chains don't have the negative contraction that the bands do...they load and deload.

B True
 
Well, the eccentric part of the lift is what creates most DOMS and causes greater CNS fatigue.

"How does accomodating resistance theory ala Westside differ from variable resistance theory ala Nautilus?"

Because the nautilus machines are based on averages which hardly coincide with the VAST majority of trainers. For most people, the restistance will be too big or too small. Machines in general are also inferior in that they render the eccentric part [for bodybuilders, essential] of the lift useless and don't make you stabilize anything. The construction of these machines also leaves a lot to be desired.

MHO,

-Zulu
 
bump...

B True
 
Good post, can you recommend the types of bands and general weight ratios they give. Also how are the used, it seems as if everyone knows how but myself... Good point on the lockout, Usually I fail at midway points where the primary muscle action is taken over by the secondary muscles...
 
thanks for the sight, can you put a video site on where they should attach to I know the bar but where does the other end attach to??? any likns or anything case I'm real interesting in geting some to get past some problems I have in my explosive strength training....
 
Hmmmm....there are some pics on the elitefitnesssystems site I think....

Just make sure that they are held down tight and tight on the bar...

B True
 
Personally I love the bands, especially on DE Squats... This Past week I used ! set each of Light, Average, and Strong bands, with an extra loop on a couple...It came to about 500 pounds band tension plus 205 bar weight...And DAMN...Those were some intense box squats... Everytime I unracked it I was fighting to not be flung across the gym...And needless to say It made it real easy to sit back on the box...lol
 
Looks like everything got answered here, so I just wanted to add that accomodated resistance is not "a.k.a. Westside." It's been around for a long time. Westside may have pioneered the widely spread use of jumpstretch bands, but the idea in general is one for the ages.
 
the bands will either pin me to the box or I will be explosive enough to come back up from a dead stop.

band squats are scary shit the first time you try them. Man they work good on developing explosiveness though! Train with 'em for a while and then go to a bar that doesnt get harder as you ascend (bands) and your weights just fly up!! I use a green on each side but I cant help but worry a little bit about a band breaking, could be disasterous...
 
Just wanted to bump this post so maybe a few more people could get some ideas from it...

B True
 
this is a good idea. thanks for bumping it. i'll try them and see what lifts they work for. what would you guys suggest for length of time for the eccentric portion of lifts? maybe 4 seconds eccentric then 2 concentric? maybe longer?
 
jeremys said:
this is a good idea. thanks for bumping it. i'll try them and see what lifts they work for. what would you guys suggest for length of time for the eccentric portion of lifts? maybe 4 seconds eccentric then 2 concentric? maybe longer?

With enough band tension...you will struggle to keep the bar from falling down on you and crushing you...making it a negative movement followed by a positive movement. You will NOT want to try to go slow...if you do...you will never get the bar back up.

B True
 
which would work better for growth: bands or bar weight with slow eccentric?
 
jeremys said:
which would work better for growth: bands or bar weight with slow eccentric?

Well...I like to use the bands...and I am growing!!!

B True
 
Well you use the band togetehr with bar+weight, the bands pull downwards on you, so the eccentric stress is even greater, then you have to reverse this and push hard against the combined weight of the bar/plates and band.

sorta like plyo together with weights rolled in one.
 
It depends on the move and how you have the bands rigged. In a squat, yes, there is greater eccentric when anchored at the floor.
 
heavywear said:


band squats are scary shit the first time you try them. Man they work good on developing explosiveness though! Train with 'em for a while and then go to a bar that doesnt get harder as you ascend (bands) and your weights just fly up!! I use a green on each side but I cant help but worry a little bit about a band breaking, could be disasterous...

good I hope this makes me a freaking jumping monster!!! :basket:


just wondering if the pink bands are enough with 135lbs?
I currently full squat around 250lbs for reps - quite hard
That should add 100lbs to the top of the 135 right?

I kinda wished I had ordered the greens instead:(
 
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i was thinking that with a bar w/o bands i could make the eccentric slower vs. bar with bands. i was thinking about TUT
 
Interesting explanation BFOLD- the best I've heard yet-(sorry but Simmons writings didn't do it for me), somewhat similiar to the theory behind the design of Nautilus (the variable, varying resistance with the maximum being in the fully contracted peak posiiton).
The only real problem I see with this method is how would you do all this if you train in a commercial gym or club, like many- if not most do.
 
intenceman,
i work in a commercial gym and bring my bands with me. get some funny looks, but i like the results, so go with it.
brian
 
Wanted to bump this back to the top for a few people to gander at...

B True
 
Intenceman said:
The only real problem I see with this method is how would you do all this if you train in a commercial gym or club, like many- if not most do.
I just take mine to the gym with me...no one cares.
 
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