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AB's Keeling Over Reeling Through Exhaustion
- Thread starter anotherbutters
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anotherbutters
New member
You were wasting away at 260lb
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5248666&postcount=54
I was testing the water in the first workout as I had no idea how I'd feel by the end of all the deadlifts, but I was ok. I'm ok now too and don't expect any soreness or tiredness tomorrow either. I'm contemplating adding a little on Friday, maybe only 1kg, and going to 8 sets. I'm also thinking of increasing next week's weights by more than I'm supposed to, but I should probably start off with the planned increase on Monday (and back to 5/6 reps) and save further increases until Wednesday, based on how Monday went.
I feel like the weights are too low, but I know fatigue will creep up on me at some point and I'm in this for 4 weeks. I also realise Korte based the percentages on equipped lifts, so I've started too low if you take that into account too.
For reference (I should have put this in the 1st post, but I can't edit it now), here are your and Jim's Kortes:
BW's Korte: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416909
Jim's Korte: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426105
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5248666&postcount=54
I was testing the water in the first workout as I had no idea how I'd feel by the end of all the deadlifts, but I was ok. I'm ok now too and don't expect any soreness or tiredness tomorrow either. I'm contemplating adding a little on Friday, maybe only 1kg, and going to 8 sets. I'm also thinking of increasing next week's weights by more than I'm supposed to, but I should probably start off with the planned increase on Monday (and back to 5/6 reps) and save further increases until Wednesday, based on how Monday went.
I feel like the weights are too low, but I know fatigue will creep up on me at some point and I'm in this for 4 weeks. I also realise Korte based the percentages on equipped lifts, so I've started too low if you take that into account too.
For reference (I should have put this in the 1st post, but I can't edit it now), here are your and Jim's Kortes:
BW's Korte: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416909
Jim's Korte: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426105
super_rice
New member
anotherbutters, have you read my experiences with the korte?
i only squatted ~105kg for 5 when i first did it last summer.
i found that it did absolutely nothing for bench, a small increase in deadlift, and an enormous increase in backsquatting, as i went to squatting 125 x 5. not bad for a month's work (the next month of unloading and maxing didn't work out as planned for me..).
i only squatted ~105kg for 5 when i first did it last summer.
i found that it did absolutely nothing for bench, a small increase in deadlift, and an enormous increase in backsquatting, as i went to squatting 125 x 5. not bad for a month's work (the next month of unloading and maxing didn't work out as planned for me..).
anotherbutters
New member
No I haven't. If you/someone could post a link, that'd be much appreciated, thanks.super_rice said:
It's interesting that your bench and dead didn't really move. I'm trying to get back to my own squat max of 105kg for 5 and beyond, but I naturally thought the Korte would be good for helping my bench and dead too. I'm a bit curious as to why training relatively low intensities for volume is supposed to help powerlifters increase their 1 rep maxes. Maybe there's more carryover at that level. I dunno.
Jim, I just started reading your Korte and noticed you found squats a bit of a challenge from the outset. My squats are a walk in the park and my bench is even easier. I feel like I could do them all night at that weight. I get a sweat going on deads, but they're not what you'd call hard. I need to bump the weights.
blut wump
New member
This all sounds very familiar. I think you've come into this better conditioned than I did and so are finding it even easier.
If a workout feels good then bump something the following workout, sets or weights. I recall holding my bench back while bumping deads and squats once or twice. During the later weeks of your volume run you should bump in anticipation of feeling good.
Super Rice's best suggestion to me was to give your body no chance to adapt to the pace. Just keep the increases reasonable since once you've bumped the weight you can't go back. Just keep balancing weight and volume as you go.
It's been a while but I recall reading a lot of articles where 55% - 65% weights are used for volume training. It was always confusing, though, since 75% ish used to be the norm. It was never clear whether they were accounting for lifting gear or ever-improved neural efficiency.
Anyway, I'm settling in here to watch a funrun at the Korte. It's looking great so far.
If a workout feels good then bump something the following workout, sets or weights. I recall holding my bench back while bumping deads and squats once or twice. During the later weeks of your volume run you should bump in anticipation of feeling good.
Super Rice's best suggestion to me was to give your body no chance to adapt to the pace. Just keep the increases reasonable since once you've bumped the weight you can't go back. Just keep balancing weight and volume as you go.
It's been a while but I recall reading a lot of articles where 55% - 65% weights are used for volume training. It was always confusing, though, since 75% ish used to be the norm. It was never clear whether they were accounting for lifting gear or ever-improved neural efficiency.
Anyway, I'm settling in here to watch a funrun at the Korte. It's looking great so far.
anotherbutters
New member
Korte, Week 1, Day 3
Thanks for the tips. I bumped all the weights today. I wasn't sure whether to drop back to 6 sets, but stuck with 7. I keep writing "EASY" next to the sets in my paper journal and found myself doing the same today. I was losing my grip on the 5th set of deads and grabbed some chalk and all of a sudden deads were easy again. I worked up a bit of a sweat again on deads, but 15 mins after finishing and a quick shower, my heart rate was back to normal and I'd stopped sweating. Fresh as a daisy
On the whole, this first week hasn't been the big increase in workload that I expected, so I guess my conditioning is relatively good from pushing myself on the SF5x5. Again, I felt as though I could have done twice as many sets today. I'm going to bump the weights again on Monday. Maybe just squats and bench, then bump deads on Wednesday, so that I'm always increasing something. I know it's only week 2 next week, but at this rate I'll be in week 4 wondering when it's going to start getting hard (famous last words...
).
I'm hovering around 180lbs, so I've just switched to whole milk. God I love milk I probably drink just under a gallon a day, half of which is now whole.
All weights in kg, warmups excluded.
W1 D1: Squat: 67 x 6 x 5 reps, Bench: 48 x 6 x 6 reps (WSNWSN ), Dead: 87 x 6 x 5 reps ... (147lb/106lb/191lb)
W1 D2: Squat: 67 x 7 x 5 reps, Bench: 48 x 7 x 6 reps (NSWNSWN), Dead: 87 x 7 x 5 reps
TODAY: Squat: 69 x 7 x 5 reps, Bench: 50 x 7 x 6 reps (NSWNSWN), Dead: 90 x 7 x 5 reps ... (152lb/110lb/198lb)
Thanks for the tips. I bumped all the weights today. I wasn't sure whether to drop back to 6 sets, but stuck with 7. I keep writing "EASY" next to the sets in my paper journal and found myself doing the same today. I was losing my grip on the 5th set of deads and grabbed some chalk and all of a sudden deads were easy again. I worked up a bit of a sweat again on deads, but 15 mins after finishing and a quick shower, my heart rate was back to normal and I'd stopped sweating. Fresh as a daisy
On the whole, this first week hasn't been the big increase in workload that I expected, so I guess my conditioning is relatively good from pushing myself on the SF5x5. Again, I felt as though I could have done twice as many sets today. I'm going to bump the weights again on Monday. Maybe just squats and bench, then bump deads on Wednesday, so that I'm always increasing something. I know it's only week 2 next week, but at this rate I'll be in week 4 wondering when it's going to start getting hard (famous last words...
).I'm hovering around 180lbs, so I've just switched to whole milk. God I love milk
I probably drink just under a gallon a day, half of which is now whole.All weights in kg, warmups excluded.
W1 D1: Squat: 67 x 6 x 5 reps, Bench: 48 x 6 x 6 reps (WSNWSN ), Dead: 87 x 6 x 5 reps ... (147lb/106lb/191lb)
W1 D2: Squat: 67 x 7 x 5 reps, Bench: 48 x 7 x 6 reps (NSWNSWN), Dead: 87 x 7 x 5 reps
TODAY: Squat: 69 x 7 x 5 reps, Bench: 50 x 7 x 6 reps (NSWNSWN), Dead: 90 x 7 x 5 reps ... (152lb/110lb/198lb)
anotherbutters
New member
I was going to post this in a new thread, but I think I've answered my own question, so I'm posting it here to get confirmation
My quetion was: "What's the purpose of the loading phase - just to load up with volume, or to allow you to push intensity AND volume, safe in the knowledge that you'll be managing the fatigue in the deload?".
I'm basically wondering whether I should be pushing intensity as much as I can, so long as I can still get the volume in, or should I let intensity take a bit of a back seat and just get the volume in with modest increases in intensity? I'm wondering whether I ought to aim for my current 5RM's for 6-8 sets on the final day of loading.
Thinking about it, I think you should increase intensity as much as you can, so long as you don't burn out before the end of the loading phase, i.e. you need to spend a certain amount of time in a loaded state, not just load up over a couple of weeks.
I'm probably just stating the bleeding obvious. My focus has been on getting the volume in, but I hadn't thought about pushing the intensity really hard.
My quetion was: "What's the purpose of the loading phase - just to load up with volume, or to allow you to push intensity AND volume, safe in the knowledge that you'll be managing the fatigue in the deload?".
I'm basically wondering whether I should be pushing intensity as much as I can, so long as I can still get the volume in, or should I let intensity take a bit of a back seat and just get the volume in with modest increases in intensity? I'm wondering whether I ought to aim for my current 5RM's for 6-8 sets on the final day of loading.
Thinking about it, I think you should increase intensity as much as you can, so long as you don't burn out before the end of the loading phase, i.e. you need to spend a certain amount of time in a loaded state, not just load up over a couple of weeks.
I'm probably just stating the bleeding obvious
. My focus has been on getting the volume in, but I hadn't thought about pushing the intensity really hard.
blut wump
New member
I view loading as something unfortunate that happens that gets in the way of your workouts and forces you to take a break. Similar to muscles getting ftigued or pumped during a set or, better, your CNS running out of nerve bundles to fire. It's the next level of fatigue and you have to stop and take a breather. Looking at it as being a level higher, consider your loading phase as a single set and then you take a breather and dive in on another set.
Hardly any of us here is an elite lifter and, as such, we have a lot of potential for growth with the correct workload. Just as someone fresh can run Rippetoe's A and B workouts and add to his 5RM session by session, we can gain slightly from workout to workout with appropriate stimulus. A lot of studies have indicated that weights around the 70% mark can work very well for advanced lifters. Given that most PLs lift with gear, Korte somehow ended up with his percentages. I know that I was stronger by the end of the volume phase than prior to it and consider my recent 5x5, assisted though it was. I only ran volume work.
On the question of "how much volume?", I guess Prilepin's table fits reasonably in there somewhere. Other than that I'd just say keep adding to the bar slowly and steadily whenever you can do it and still get the work in. I think I ended up viewing 7 sets as my norm but you'll find your own figure in or just outside your comfort level. Eventually, the loading hits and you push yourself to the end.
When Jim finished his loading phase all three of his lifts ended up at 71% intensity. Mine varied between 71% and 76%. I calculated them in Jim's thread somewhere. Those numbers might serve as a guideline and yours may end up different.
I hope there's some info in this rambling.
Hardly any of us here is an elite lifter and, as such, we have a lot of potential for growth with the correct workload. Just as someone fresh can run Rippetoe's A and B workouts and add to his 5RM session by session, we can gain slightly from workout to workout with appropriate stimulus. A lot of studies have indicated that weights around the 70% mark can work very well for advanced lifters. Given that most PLs lift with gear, Korte somehow ended up with his percentages. I know that I was stronger by the end of the volume phase than prior to it and consider my recent 5x5, assisted though it was. I only ran volume work.
On the question of "how much volume?", I guess Prilepin's table fits reasonably in there somewhere. Other than that I'd just say keep adding to the bar slowly and steadily whenever you can do it and still get the work in. I think I ended up viewing 7 sets as my norm but you'll find your own figure in or just outside your comfort level. Eventually, the loading hits and you push yourself to the end.
When Jim finished his loading phase all three of his lifts ended up at 71% intensity. Mine varied between 71% and 76%. I calculated them in Jim's thread somewhere. Those numbers might serve as a guideline and yours may end up different.
I hope there's some info in this rambling.
anotherbutters
New member
Thanks. That was exactly the viewpoint I was interested in. So you're saying the emphasis is on the workouts (pushing intensity), rather than on getting loaded? I can explain better now that I've started looking at the tonnage (all weights in kg):blut wump said:
Code:
SQUAT BENCH DEAD TONNAGE
Weight Sets Reps Weight Sets Reps Weight Sets Reps
Progress so far:
67 6 5 48 6 6 87 6 5 6348
67 7 5 48 7 6 87 7 5 7406
69 7 5 50 7 6 90 7 5 7665
Projected maxes (64% of projected 1RM):
74 6 5 53 6 6 96 6 5 7008
74 7 5 53 7 6 96 7 5 8176
74 8 5 53 8 6 96 8 5 9344 *
74 9 5 53 9 6 96 9 5 10512
Highest maxes (just under current 5RM, or 78% - 83% of projected 1RM):
90 6 5 70 6 6 125 6 5 8970
90 7 5 70 7 6 125 7 5 10465 **
90 8 5 70 8 6 125 8 5 11960(As a slight aside, the first thing I noticed from my progress so far, is that adding a set makes far more difference than adding a little to the bar).
The 'Projected maxes' are from my initial calculation of week 4's weights, with a varying number of sets. The row highlighted * indicates what I expect Korte would have you do on W4D3, so I know I ought to be somewhere above that, since I'm not a powerlifter using equipment.
The 'Highest maxes' are what I think I might be able to acheive if I get stronger and more conditioned over the remaining 3 weeks of loading. They're a shade under my current 5RMs.
So, the interesting thing to note is that if I were to stick to Korte's percentages but do more volume than he suggests (because I'm not a competing powerlifter), I might do 9 sets on W4D3, which is a tonnage of 10512kg (that sounds heavy
). Alternatively, if I follow a route where I increase intensity and reduce the sets accordingly, I could do 7 sets near to my current 5RM and get a similar tonnage of 10465kg (marked **) .Now that I have some numbers, my question becomes easier to understand - should I stick to Korte with high volume, moderate intensity (*) or switch to moderate volume, high intensity (**)? You and Jim took the middle ground with final intensities of 71% to 76%.
As I've stated before, I get the feeling that whilst high volume will give you a much better work capacity, there will be less carryover to a 1RM than training high intensity. From your quote above, if loading is a side-effect that has to be managed, it sounds like you're erring on the side of high intensity, which seems sensible to me.
