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Blut Wump - Korte 3x3

blut wump

blut wump

New member
It's time to hit the Korte 3x3 so for the sake of posterity or my posterior I'm planning to run my first log.

I'm planning to do all weights in Kilos. Convert them how you will. Americans will count every 20Kg as 45 pounds and then deal with the pennies. So,
20 - 45
40 - 90
60 - 135
80 - 180
100 - 225
120 - 270
140 - 315
160 - 360
180 - 405
etc.

For any calculations for the Korte percentages, I multiplied by 2.2 and then added 25 for squat, 10 for bench, 15 for dead. I used these numbers in pounds for the Korte percentages and then converted back to Kilos, by dividing by 2.2, and rounded to a nearby 2.5Kg.

For example,
Max Dead: 185
185 * 2.2 -> 407 + 15 -> 422. I'd then use the 422 for all my deadlift calculations and then convert back to Kilos and round off to a 2.5.

Despite all my bluster and bravado, I've decided to stick with the basic percentages until I've started the program and experienced the volume. I can always change them once I'm under way if they do turn out to be too light or, perish the thought, too heavy. I could even think about adding in assistance work. I think if I ran the madcow 5x5 again I could expect greater increases than the Korte increases so I'm expecting to find this load too light.

Another option is to increase the volume by doing more sets since the Korte allows for ranges of 5-8 sets in squat and deadlift and 6-8 sets in bench. I was already intending to do extra sets on specific days: Mon - dead, Weds - Bench, Fri - squat, to begin to accustom myself to the nature of the intensity phase.

Recent Maxes:
ATF Squat: 140 -> 308 + 25 -> 333
Bench: 135 -> 297 + 10 -> 308 (don't ask)
Dead: 185 -> 407 + 15 -> 422

My calculations, then, are based on poundages of 333, 308 and 422.

Volume Phase...W1 (58%).....W2 (60%)......W3 (62%).....W4 (64%)
Squat................87.5.............90................95...............97.5
Bench................82.5.............85...............87.5.............90
Dead................112.5...........115..............120..............122.5

Intensity Phase......60%.....80%.....85%.....90%......95%
Squat...................90.......120......130.......137.5....145
Bench...................85.......112.5...120.......125.......132.5
Deadlift...............115.......152.5...162.5.....172.5....182.5

For more info on the Korte 3x3 look to the top-right corner of this page:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/

Good luck to me.
 
Nice layout. Looks like a template I can use to set mine up when I try it. :)

One thing you mentioned that I was wondering about:

I think if I ran the madcow 5x5 again I could expect greater increases
Click to expand...

Right now I'd like to bring my lifts up as much as I can; Korte 'only' has increases of ~15lbs on, say, the deadlift. While this is probably pretty good for world class guys, at my level I'd like to bring it up (a lot) more than that.

Plus 5 x 5 has room for some other exercises that I enjoy doing, like PP and BB rows.

Any thoughts on the pro's and con's of both programs? I've heard Korte is 'harder' but I don't want harder just for the sake of doing it, at least right now. I mean I've heard Madcow say there is 'zero' room for assistance. It may bring up work capacity, perhaps?

Anyway, good luck with the program, looking forward to following your progress.
 
I feel just the same: that these expected increases are too small, at least for my squat and deadlift. Still, I've had such a long-term ambition to do 3 plates on bench for reps that I'm happy to spend the rest of this year getting there if this is what it takes. I achieved my deadlift target of 400 pounds on the last 5x5 and I've no real idea where my squat is going.

I'm expecting that the 16-20 working sets per day will increase something worth having and have a good effect on loading and correspondingly on strength gains.

I hoping that I'll be bumping the values once I get a feel for the volume and that I'll get the 10% that I've come to expect from a run of the 5x5.

Regardless of the above, it's going to give me a lot of practice on my deadlift form and ATF squatting form at 15-20 sets per week on each. For the bench it recommends switching positions through wide/shoulder/narrow from set to set so that'll get me to work a greater variety too. Overall, I decided it was worth a two-month investment for the experience.
 
Blut Wump said:
Regardless of the above, it's going to give me a lot of practice on my deadlift form and ATF squatting form at 15-20 sets per week on each. For the bench it recommends switching positions through wide/shoulder/narrow from set to set so that'll get me to work a greater variety too. Overall, I decided it was worth a two-month investment for the experience.
Click to expand...
good call IMO.

Cheers (wow it feels strange to type that :))
 
Closet Brit.
:beer:

That's the other thing about having my own thread: I can type all kinds of crap without feeling guilty about it.
 
Blut Wump said:
I can type all kinds of crap without feeling guilty about it.
Click to expand...
The flipside is that others will feel the same way.

Like the time I went to Shelbyville because I needed a new heel for my shoe. So I hopped the ferry over to Morganville, which was what they called Shelbyville in those days. To ride the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days nickels had pictures of bumble bees on 'em. "Gimme 5 bees for a quarter" you'd say. Now where was I... So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions then becasue of the war. The only ones you could get were those big, yellow ones...
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Like the time I went to Shelbyville because I needed a new heel for my shoe. So I hopped the ferry over to Morganville, which was what they called Shelbyville in those days. To ride the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days nickels had pictures of bumble bees on 'em. "Gimme 5 bees for a quarter" you'd say. Now where was I... So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions then becasue of the war. The only ones you could get were those big, yellow ones...
Click to expand...

lol. Cue falling asleep.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
The flipside is that others will feel the same way.

Like the time I went to Shelbyville because I needed a new heel for my shoe. So I hopped the ferry over to Morganville, which was what they called Shelbyville in those days. To ride the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days nickels had pictures of bumble bees on 'em. "Gimme 5 bees for a quarter" you'd say. Now where was I... So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions then becasue of the war. The only ones you could get were those big, yellow ones...
Click to expand...
Point taken but, please, don't mention the war!
 
I just read through the program and it looks very sound and solid.

Now, about the concerns that the projected increases are too small......you're right that a world class lifter would be overjoyed at the ''small'' increases. But for the majority of people who are probably nowhere near their physical potential, you want more.

This is my problem with programs revolving around percentages. With the dual factor 5x5, the heavy day is your test day and the rest of the week's %'s are based upon that. If you follow it as a dual factor approach, the workload tonnage gets rammed up just like in Korte's program. The thing is lifters who are not elite aren't the same lifter from week to week. They get stronger from week to week at a high rate, and therefore the %'s of maxes aren't accurate from one Monday to the next.

This is a great program. Don't sweat the lack of assistance work for now, The Bulgarians didn't do much assistance and their record speaks for itself.......Give it a shot and see what you think.....worst case senario, the weights are too easy, and you get a little stronger and you try something else next cycle.....things could be much worse. I hope you give it a shot and I will be following the journal closely.

Good luck.
 
Week1 Day1

This is not a trivial program and I think these next four weeks are going to be gruelling. I was taking reasonably short rests between sets and none of the sets can actually be called hard but you feel the fatigue building as the workout progresses. When I'd finished, my lower back was not happy with me.

Warmups were a bit strange. Typically my first warmup weight is 60Kg (135) for both squat and bench. For bench I typically do five speed reps with a wide grip immediately followed by five more with a narrow grip. I'll then slap another 20Kg on and do another five reps. Well, for squat and bench, adding 20Kg put me straight into my work sets. I can see I'm going to have to do lighter warmups: they might also help loosen me up for all the volume.

Towards the end I kept remembering that madcow often says that the 5x5 can be made much harder by eliminating the ramps on days 1 and 3 and doing them as 5 sets at your top weight. Welcome to the Korte.

Cycling through the three grips, Wide, Shoulder, Narrow, on bench added to the fatigue. I'm not sure my elbows like the shoulder-width grip.

I tried to make an effort to get closer to the bar on the deads. Just as I thought my shins were healing, too.

I think this program is likely to give good results or bury me and I'm glad I left my ego at the door when I plotted out the weights. By the time I'd finished I did some hammy stretches and a few crunches and reckoned I was done for the day. I didn't feel any inclination to add any assistance work. I have to remember, though, that I've lost some conditioning with having done mostly low-rep work for the past month or so.

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide
ATF Squat: 60x10, 80x4, 87.5 x 5 for six sets - nothing much to report
Bench: 60x5W, 60x5N, 82.5 x 6 x 6 SWSNSW - last two sets were starting to feel tiring and I was looking forward to deadlifts
Dead: 60x10, 80x5, 100x3, 112.5 x 5 for 7 sets - no strain but tiring
 
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BiggT said:
I just read through the program and it looks very sound and solid.

Now, about the concerns that the projected increases are too small......you're right that a world class lifter would be overjoyed at the ''small'' increases. But for the majority of people who are probably nowhere near their physical potential, you want more.

This is my problem with programs revolving around percentages. With the dual factor 5x5, the heavy day is your test day and the rest of the week's %'s are based upon that. If you follow it as a dual factor approach, the workload tonnage gets rammed up just like in Korte's program. The thing is lifters who are not elite aren't the same lifter from week to week. They get stronger from week to week at a high rate, and therefore the %'s of maxes aren't accurate from one Monday to the next.

This is a great program. Don't sweat the lack of assistance work for now, The Bulgarians didn't do much assistance and their record speaks for itself.......Give it a shot and see what you think.....worst case senario, the weights are too easy, and you get a little stronger and you try something else next cycle.....things could be much worse. I hope you give it a shot and I will be following the journal closely.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm hoping to be able to increase by more than the initial calculations but if today is anything to go by I'll be glad to hobble through at these 'small' increases.

My only sanity-preserving thought is that it's been two to three months since I was last in the volume phase of the madcow 5x5 and my conditioning will swiftly return. Still, one day of week one is too soon to start worrying about being buried.

I'm wholly behind the attitude that I get whatever I get and the worst case is that I learn something for my time investment. The percentages aren't set in stone and I'll see how it goes. I look forward to your support and criticisms.
 
biggt is right about the state of programs based around percentages. Us newbies may gain much more than elite level lifters, so the percentages don't always reflect our true strength. During my volume phase, I worked on scaling up the volume and getting my body accustomed to the workload, rather than worrying too much about intensity. Only in the latter two weeks did the intensity really start popping (and boy, did it ever). Good luck.
 
That's where my thoughts were taking me: a couple of weeks of acclimatizing and then I'll see where I really stand.

I think I'll take a proper read through your Korte thread.
 
blut wump,

Your conditioning to high volume work will return very soon, and you won't feel so tired. I think that has a lot to do with it. After these four weeks, you should be more than ready for the intensity phase.

Short rest periods and high volume with ''light'' weights is one of the most physically exhausting ways to train and it will take plenty of getting used to. Cycling grips does enhance fatigue, but is great for conditioning. You are approaching each set fatigued in a way you normally wouldn't be. You're doing wide-grip presses with blown out triceps, close grip presses with fatigued shoulders, etc......

Very interesting, and I am looking forward to the intensity phase to see how much conditioning you gain from this.
 
Blut Wump said:
Point taken but, please, don't mention the war!
Click to expand...

I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it. ;)



I'll be following this log with interest as well. I wanna try Kortes after I do the 5x5.
 
BiggT said:
The thing is lifters who are not elite aren't the same lifter from week to week. They get stronger from week to week at a high rate, and therefore the %'s of maxes aren't accurate from one Monday to the next.
Click to expand...

The majority of the strength gains will occur in the competition phase, correct? i.e, the prep phase is just to build up volume/fatigue like the first 4 weeks of 5 x 5 and even us non-elites wouldn't necessarily see big gains here that would require weight adjustments.

I guess what I'm wondering is if I should just shoot for a higher predicted 1RM and work off those % or be convservative with the prep and then make the adjustments in the last 4 weeks.

Blurt Wump said:
last two sets were starting to feel tiring and I was looking forward to deadlifts
Click to expand...

That reminds me I remember Madcow saying a few times that what makes this program grueling is the heavy pull you have waiting for you at the end of the workout...
 
I didn't mind the deadlift at all and was looking forward to it. As I was doing it, though, it kind of felt like a chore.

What I might find is not necessarily that I get stronger over the first four weeks but that conditioning improves. This program feels like it has a lot of volume but no individual lift of the volume phase need be hard. Even when you look at the intensity phase it seems easy until, maybe, the last two weeks. Even the 'hard' lifts are just singles at reasonably light weights. 80%? 85%? pfft!

I know I've had strength gains in the past from light work. I'm more worried that I'll just wear out than that my strength will fail me.

grrr at the Blurt
 
Was hoping to slip that by dammit.

Anyway, I can see myself getting buried by the volume too; when I was reading over the numbers 80-85% 1RM single for 1-2 sets seemed pretty easy to me too, especially since 3 x 3's are at only 60% 1RM.

I glanced over the program again and he says these low intensity sets are for power and technique. I wonder how these fit into intensity phase though i.e, do they help your heavy singles or are they just there to keep you ready for competition.

Otherwise I can see myself wanting to alter it to, say, 80-95% 1/3 x 3...

Anyway it's obviously a tried and true program, just curious about how it was set up especially compared to 5 x 5. I think I have to read it again :)
 
Glanced through them, seem like good reads. Thanks.

(don't know if I like the possibility of my bench going down, though ;))
 
Week 1 Day 2

Today was definitely easier than Monday. It occured to me that maybe the 'sled'-dragging on Sunday had taken a bit out of me.

My thighs felt a bit tight as I started the squats but that went away. Annoyingly, I got a pain in my right knee on set4. I'm going to have to play with foot spacing and angle to keep this from being a hindrance.

Bench felt easy too except that the last two sets of Narrow grip were starting to take it out of my triceps. I was beginning to feel some concern about being able to lock out on the last rep. I did eight bench sets since it's Wednesday.

Deadlifts also easy enough but my lower back was complaining again. Sometimes I forget that I have a bad back. I was doing SLDL with more weight than this last week.

One thing I tried very much to do today was to relax during the sets. I occasionally found myself tensing to lift and tried not to. I think it made the lifts easier. I again tried to keep the workout fairly brisk. I wasn't timing myself, as such, but I know that the deads took under 9 minutes discounting warmups since I looked at the clock before and after. The whole workout took about 40 minutes and I didn't feel rushed. I finished off with some hammy and lower back stretches and 5 sets of Needsize's abs 5x5 on the decline jobby.

I was thinking that after the next workout I should bump the weights but then I realised that I'm supposed to anyway. I think it'll be time to reassess the intensity after next Monday's workout.

You already know the weights but here they are, anyway.
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder-width, W - Wide
All weights in Kilos

ATF Squats: Barx10, 40x8, 60x5, 87.5 x 5 x 5 - knee hurt on set 4
Bench: Barx10S, 40x8N, 60x5W, 82.5 x 6 for 8 sets NSNWNSNW - locking out on last rep of last two Narrow sets and final Wide set was neither hard nor trivial
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x5, 100x3, 112.5 x 5 for six sets - nothing much to report. Didn't feel as much of a chore today but I recall thinking a couple of times that I'd just done a rep with less than good form.
 
Yeah, controlling your mental state during the sessions helps to avoid over-reaching, and just overall conserving energy. I believe Korte condones an "ESM" method or some sorts in his articles.
 
I was thinking about it afterwards in relation to the deadlift. It's like trying not so much to do a deadlift and lift the bar but more to stand up in a deadlift movement with the bar being just added resistance. I'm trying to stand up rather than trying to deadlift the bar.

Maybe it's all too Zen for this time of night. Doing the same exercise over and over again gives you a lot of time to think about it.
 
Week 1 Day 3

A few days late but I'd better get this in before it gets overtaken by week2

My right knee was hurting from the start so I had to experiment with foot placement. The first two sets I had my heels very close together with wide flared feet. I think of them as Penguin Squats. They helped a little but from set 3 onwards I was using a soulder-width stance with feet forwards. This allowed me to squat without pain but if I tried to settle-in at the bottom it still hurt so I was going fully down but not relaxing-in when I got there.

This put more strain on my lower back so I got my usual lower back ache during squats rather than having to wait until deadlifts. The good thing was that it went away while benching and didn't come back.

My triceps were getting into trouble towards the end of benching. I've occasionally suspected that I might have a triceps weakness but couldn't believe it. With luck, this program having isolated the problem will also fix it.

The weights were even less of a struggle today so I did 8 sets of each. I had some triceps and 'tear-drop' muscle doms over the weekend but otherwise fine. I might do a double increase on the weights as I go into week 2 and use the week 3 weights. I just hope my knee doesn't let me down. If I do the weight bump then I might drop down to basic volume for the first day of week2.

ATF Squat: 20x10, 40x8, 60x5, 87.5 x 5 for 8 sets - two penguin sets + 6 very classical stance, lower back ache + bad right knee
Bench: 40x10N, 60x6S, 82.5 x 6 for 8 sets WSNSWSWN - triceps would have let me down had I continued with more sets
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x6, 100x3, 112.5 x 5 for 8 sets - nothing to report except a lack of lower back ache
 
Any idea what's up with the knee pain? Mine still hasn't totally gone away although it's a lot better as long as I warm up properly.

And on the bench you go W-S-N...how are the close grip feeling since you're using the same weight as your wide, correct? I see you mention your triceps giving you trouble, my closegrip is about 60% of my regular grip, I think, haven't done them in awhile. If I do this I can't see myself using the same weights for wide and narrow...
 
Perhaps the knee pain is in relation to the newly increased volume. If so, then maybe you should not scale up to 8 sets until say, week 2 or 3, when you are more accustomed to it.

But then again, if it is too easy on a paticular day, I think that the effect of the korte is lost.
 
Week 2 Day 1

I decided to jump straight to next week's projected weights after having felt fine doing 8 sets of each last Friday. Accordingly I dropped the volume back down to compensate but I think I still felt better than I did last Monday. See what the week brings.

My right knee was a bit better than on Friday but I still felt the need to nurse it. I was able to sit and settle-in on the squats but I could feel that I was holding off fully relaxing at the bottom. My knee was clicking every time I went down. I chose an expanded penguin stance today: shoulder width but with about a 30 degree flare.

Not much to report for bench and deadlift. Triceps were starting to complain by the last set and my lower back was complaining a lot by the end of the deads. Something has definitely changed with my deadlift form as I occasionally graze my knees on the way up which I never used to do. I'm making a bit of an effort to get myself a shade lower when I begin to pull. I'm also getting concerned that I'm not guarding my arch with these weights since I can just muscle it up through any bad positioning.

The weights today were better. Enough of an effort that you wouldn't mistake it for cardio. I seem to be coping with the volume. I hope they don't turn into the proverbial 'famous last words'. I'm fine, arggghhh.

ATF Squat: 20x10, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 95 x 5 x 5 - knees better but not good
Bench: 20x10S, 40x8N, 60x5W, 80x2S, 87.5 x 6 x 6 NSNWNS - triceps starting to fade again
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x5, 100x3, 120 x 5 for 7 sets - lower back aching a lot again
 
Jim Ouini said:
Any idea what's up with the knee pain? Mine still hasn't totally gone away although it's a lot better as long as I warm up properly.

And on the bench you go W-S-N...how are the close grip feeling since you're using the same weight as your wide, correct? I see you mention your triceps giving you trouble, my closegrip is about 60% of my regular grip, I think, haven't done them in awhile. If I do this I can't see myself using the same weights for wide and narrow...
Click to expand...
My knee started to hurt before I started the Korte. Maybe 8 months of squatting has finally just caught up with me. I really don't have much of a clue how to warm up my knees which might be part of the problem. I do the lighter sets and give my knee a rub and a bit of a stretch and a few words of encouragement and hope it can cope.

On the bench I think my weakest might be the shoulder grip rather than the narrow grip. If your close-grip weight is 60% of your regular then I think you have something to work on since you'd be unable to be doing sets for reps at 60%+.

I remember years back I always preferred a shoulder-width grip and would use a wide grip about 1/3 of the time and never liked it. The books all said that one should be strongest with a wide grip and I can't remember when I switched over and stopped doing narrower grips. I'm obviously finding the wide grip sets easier than the other two so I'm doing fewer of them. My triceps are coping fine but they are suffering during the later sets. With any luck, after finishing this program, it'll be a long time before a I fail to lock out on the bench.
 
super_rice said:
Perhaps the knee pain is in relation to the newly increased volume. If so, then maybe you should not scale up to 8 sets until say, week 2 or 3, when you are more accustomed to it.

But then again, if it is too easy on a paticular day, I think that the effect of the korte is lost.
Click to expand...
I'm sure the volume isn't helping but it started to complain about going deep two or three weeks ago. Maybe I've twisted it or something. I think I'll get one of those elasticated bandages for daily wear.

I think I just had a bit of extra energy on Friday and with a weekend's worth of recovery ahead of me I did the extra sets. I also had a five hour drive straight after the gym and I might have been trying to defer that.

I'm not yet unhappy with the Korte. The first day I was worried about being buried and by the third day I was throwing in extra sets. It should settle down soon enough and I should be able to calibrate successive runs better.
 
Blut Wump said:
My knee started to hurt before I started the Korte. Maybe 8 months of squatting has finally just caught up with me. I really don't have much of a clue how to warm up my knees which might be part of the problem. I do the lighter sets and give my knee a rub and a bit of a stretch and a few words of encouragement and hope it can cope.
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same here; I do deep BW squat while holding onto the squat rack and then a couple warmup sets with just the bar. Then pray.

Blut Wump said:
On the bench I think my weakest might be the shoulder grip rather than the narrow grip. If your close-grip weight is 60% of your regular then I think you have something to work on since you'd be unable to be doing sets for reps at 60%+.

I remember years back I always preferred a shoulder-width grip and would use a wide grip about 1/3 of the time and never liked it. The books all said that one should be strongest with a wide grip and I can't remember when I switched over and stopped doing narrower grips. I'm obviously finding the wide grip sets easier than the other two so I'm doing fewer of them. My triceps are coping fine but they are suffering during the later sets. With any luck, after finishing this program, it'll be a long time before a I fail to lock out on the bench.
Click to expand...

For example my 3RM bench with hands wider than shoulder width is something like 275; my close grip (hands inside shoulder width) 3RM is probably 205/225 or so (haven't tested). But I did close grip as a tricep exercise, don't think I could do 275 x 3 close grip (unless I was on a decline bench on the smith machine ;) ).

That reminds me, there used to be a powerlifter at a gym I used to go to who powerlifted and his 'normal' grip was very narrow, hands maybe 6-8 inches apart. He had a ~670 bench this way :eek2:
 
That's closer to 80% than to 60%. The way I see it, if you think you have a weakness then the sooner it's dealt with the better all around. At the very least, strengthening your triceps will mean not having to worry about lockout. It's good to have one less thing on your mind when you're concerned about being squished on the bench. ;)

I have no idea what it would do to your sticking point, assuming you have one part way up, but extra triceps strength is likely to help. I know I got a bit of a shock to find myself uncomfortable with the weight on shoulder grip last week. With any luck I'll grab a few newbie gains to help the program along. I've forgotten what the protocol is during the intensity phase regarding whether I'm supposed still to be cycling grips. That could be fun. :)
 
Hmm so I glanced at the 3 x 3 bench article for the first time...he says to use weakest grip most often, although intensity is based on your strongest grip (I assume).

So just thinking out loud, even at 64% (heaviest in prep phase) I'd only be doing 180lbs on close grip. That's not too bad, and I don't see any grip cycling in the comp phase. And it's a lot different setup than squat and dead, didn't realize that.
 
One of the problems with the Korte, as I see it, is that the intensity is meant not only to be based off your strongest grip but also your performance in full contest equipment. This might mean no gear at all for some (me for example) or a full metal jacket with servo assist for others. The singles during the intensity phase are meant to be done in full gear and all other lifts done raw.

This basically means that his percentages are purest fantasy. I know from my own lifting that if I slap on a belt and wraps I can squat another 100lbs ish. Imagine if I were also wearing a squat suit. It could basically mean that my 60% lifts could even be higher than my 1RM raw lift or, at least, comparable with it.

What it ends up meaning is that the weights I'm using as a raw lifter are lower than what I would be using were I to take my 1RM as being fully equipped. This is why I want to increase the weights when I can as and when I adjust to volume. Meanwhile, I get workout speed and reps per set to play with as I manage my fatigue. It might seem like a fully-laid-out program but, by its nature, there are enough variables to juggle that a first run is likely to be sub-optimal.

Still, my first run of the madcow 5x5 was scrappy and went satisfyingly well.

Yay, my 2000th post!
 
Week 2 Day 2

I was concerned before this workout that my knee was going to be a problem but it coped. It's all about getting the foot placement right. Another aspect, which I mentioned last time is that it is inhibiting my being able to settle-in or, at least, relax at the bottom. I think it's also forcing me to make more of an effort to hold my weight back on my heels so maybe the bad knee is a fortunate happenstance. Especially if it happens to improve my stance. Today's foot placement was shoulder width with a slight flare.

I was looking back to my last madcow 5x5 during my squats and saw that if I make the jump to 100Kg next week, which I'm considering, it'll equal the weight I used for my Monday 5x5 squats in week3 which was a bit of a grind. I can see why some might consider the Korte to be harder than the vanilla 5x5.

My first three working sets of bench felt harder than expected. Maybe I'm not spending enough time on warm-ups. I went for water and the next set was easier. I went for 7 sets and an 8th might have been a bit of a struggle. I was thinking of stopping on 6 but realised that I wouldn't be breaking any patterns by finishing on Wide grip and knew I could do that.

Not much to report on deads. They're back to feeling a little gruelling but not hard by any means. My lower back was giving me its usual grief. I just try to ignore it since it really only bleats between sets.

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 95 x 5 for 6 sets
Bench: 20x10N, 40x8S, 60x5W, 80x2S, 87.5 x 6 for 7 sets WSNSNSW
Dealift: 60x10, 80x8, 100x5, 120 x 5 for 6 sets
 
Week 2 Day 3

Not a lot to report, really. I did seven sets on everything rather than the eight I did last week. I'm starting to slow down a little and the workout took more than an hour so maybe the fatigue is starting to build. I also didn't have much inclination to do much besides go home. As ever, no particular set can be called hard but the workout slowly empties the tank as you work though it.

My knee and lower back didn't cause me any problems today. Not great but not a problem either.

I still haven't decided on the weights to use for next week. I was thinking of bumping the Squat to 100Kg and the Deadlift to 125Kg and then move to 105Kg for Squat and 130Kg for Deadlift in week 4. For bench, I'm not sure at all. I expect I'll bump it to 92.5Kg but just stepping to 90Kg might be more sensible on my triceps.

I'm definitely finding the two closer grips easier on bench than I was at the start. I'm also starting to feel concerned that I might be neglecting my wide grip since it gets least use, being my strongest setting. Maybe I should have a day where it gets most use to keep my eye in.

I also doubled up the warmups on bench. Maybe it helped, it certainly didn't do any harm.

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x15, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 95 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10NS, 40x8NW, 60x5SW, 80x2SN, 87.5 x 6 for 7 sets WNSNSNW
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x8, 100x5, 120 x 5 for 7 sets
 
At the end of the prep phase to you expect to be right about at your 6 x 5-6RM max, or even setting PR's?

The original template has 64% 1RM for 5 on dead & squat and for 6 on bench.

I'm just wondering as you're adjusting the weights as you go along if you want to push it to failure at the end. Or if all the volume is going to take care of the loading?
 
Jim Ouini said:
At the end of the prep phase to you expect to be right about at your 6 x 5-6RM max, or even setting PR's?

The original template has 64% 1RM for 5 on dead & squat and for 6 on bench.

I'm just wondering as you're adjusting the weights as you go along if you want to push it to failure at the end. Or if all the volume is going to take care of the loading?
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I'm trying to avoid failure. I always feel that I need to get through Monday's workout with enough left over to do the same Wednesday and Friday.

I'm still viewing the percentages as nothing more than guidelines. In the squats I'm going to be doing the same next week as I did on the last run of the madcow 5x5 for day1 in week3. Deads and bench will be much lower than in the 5x5. The other side to squats is that I was still very new to ATF squats during that run of the 5x5 so they'll go where they will.

I'm counting on loading to do its work. It is gruelling to be hitting the three exercises three times each week. I am concerned that I'm working too light but trying to balance it with an extra set or two and the later sets are definitely not over-easy. I just don't know. I guess when it comes down to it I don't have enough experience to know whether I'm pushing hard enough or even grinding myself down to early. Each week I look at the following week and think that it's going to be too much but it isn't. I might have to do another run after this one to maximize benefits with the aid of having done it once already.
 
Blut Wump said:
I might have to do another run after this one to maximize benefits with the aid of having done it once already.
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I'm with you on that one. I'm looking forward to running the same 5x5 run as my first time again. Should be better with little more know-how.
 
These dual-factor programs are a bit of a hassle in this respect. Whenever you switch from one to another, you're back to guess-work. If I ran this Korte for another run and then went back to the madcow 5x5 I'd be back to guessing what weights to use.

I guess (:)) you should always aim to have two runs on a dual factor setup.
 
Just a minor weekend update: thighs, glutes, hams are suffering some doms after a long sleep. Chest and lats also but to a lesser extent. Triceps are fine although they ached a lot last weekend.

I know someone is going to tell me that doms means nothing but the doms does, at least, tell me that I'm working the affected muscles more than they are accustomed to which I can take as a sign that I'm not being overly easy on myself with these workouts.

Week3 coming up: more shit to kill. :)
 
I thought I read where normally you shouldn't dead more than 1/week because it's so taxing on the CNS, but I've been deadllifting twice a week for the past 4 weeks or so, starting at about 55% to about 85% 1RM.

I've found that lately I've been napping a lot, like 15 minute fall asleep on the couch before dinner, and have some DOMS in my posterior chain that I have to work through.

Wow and you still have 2 more weeks of prep ;)
 
I guess I can put off needing to order sleeping pills a while longer then. :)

You've gotten me worried again, now. Still, I just remember how bad madcow week4 Wednesday workouts are. These can't be worse, at least not too much worse.

Have you given thought to what's up next? I'm not in position yet to recommend the Korte. G5.0's workout looks like it's doing him good. You seem to be having a lot of fun trying lots of different things at the moment, though.
 
Heh, I dont' mean to be a wet blanket...I'm just curious as I have my sights set on Korte at some point. But I also want to try DFHT. And I really like Starr 5 x 5. :flake: :p

Right now I just finished my 4 week obligation to myself to work on core and stabilization. I have to maintain some measure of this. And worked on some weakpoints in my posterior chain, although I think I loaded up because I got carried away with steps 'n bands 'n intensity.

So I'm thinking of deloading somehow next week and either going for a 500 dead attempt after that or I may ease into it by doing 3 x 3 intensity. The latter seems more reasonable, heh.
 
Week 3 Day 1

I bumped all three weights by another 5Kg from last week's weights. This means I'm now 2.5Kg over what were my projected week 4 weights so all's well so far. I'm not sure that I'll be able to cope with the same again on Bench but I expect I'll bump by another 5Kg on Squat and Deadlift for week 4.

This is the same weight on squats I had for Monday in week3 last 5x5 and I grunted and groaned my way through the five sets back then. I did six sets today and it felt about right. It looks like exercise really does make one stronger. Thighs were still tight from last week but they loosened out about half-way through.

Bench was fine but I'm still mentally adjusting to doing 6 reps rather than the 5 reps of the 5x5. I'm finding the narrower grips easier than when I started, which is good. My usual, wide, grip might be paying the penalty. I did equal numbers of each grip today and probably shall through the week. I'm not sure my triceps could have gone for a 7th set.

I was sucking vapour by the time deads came around. I felt hungry and tired and wanted to go home. Six sets later I decided it was enough but then a stray thought came into my head to do some curls. I reckoned that if I had energy for curls then I could do another set of deads instead so I did. My back was mostly coping today. Not sure my form is as good as it needs to be.


All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10 for 2 sets, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100 x 5 for 6 sets
Bench: 20x10NW, 40x8SN, 60x5SW, 80x2NS, 92.5 x 6 for 6 sets WSNSWN - last rep of last set was a struggle to lock out
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x8, 100x5, 120x2, 125 x 5 for 7 sets
 
Hey blut wump, glad to see you are adapting. My view on it is to not let your body adjust at all. It will adjust as you progress through the program. Keep scaling up the volume and intensity!
 
Ok, I'm game. I'll bump the squats and deads another 2.5Kg on Wednesday and see whether I can make another bump on everything on Friday. I must be going senile but, what the heck, I reckon I can cope.

Thanks.
 
Week 3 Day 2

Thanks to Super Rice for coming in and disturbing my blissful indolence. I bumped the Squats and Deads by 2.5 Kg each and I'll do the same on Friday. I'll also bump the Bench 2.5 Kg on Friday. I hesitate to think where I stand with percentages for the intensity / competition phase. As ever I'll have to play it by ear.

I felt well today. No particular aches nor pains although my knee is still not 100%. I can feel the loading starting to creep up on me. You get to that stage where there's willpower involved to keep hammering out the sets. Excellent: that's what it's all about. If I don't get myself loaded up, I'm wasting my time doing the program.

The Bench is starting to be a struggle and I'm not entirely sure why. I'm inclined to think that it's mostly down to having just come from Squats straight to the bench. I hope my Bench isn't dropping. I know I'd trade a bit of Bench for a bit more Squat and Deadlift but I want everything to go up. Maybe I just need a shade more rest.

I'm definitely continuing to slow down. The workout was pressing on to around 90 minutes today. I was feeling drained by the time I started on the work sets for deadlift so broke out my PWO drink a little early which helped. I did 7 sets on everything and finished off with the usual hammy stretches and five sets of Needsize's 5x5 on the decline jobby. My lower back was pretty much fine today.

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 30x10 for 2 sets, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 102.5 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10SW, 40x8NW, 60x5S, 80x3N, 92.5 x 6 for 7 sets WNSNWSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 127.5 x 5 for 7 sets - short-shifted the warmups
 
Blut Wump said:
You get to that stage where there's willpower involved to keep hammering out the sets. Excellent: that's what it's all about. If I don't get myself loaded up, I'm wasting my time doing the program.
Click to expand...

Awesome, playtime is OVER :garza:

As far as bench goes, that link you provided earlier had some guy whose bench went down doing Korte. But IIRC he came from WSB so he attributed it to the lack of assistance in Korte.

Not to get too far ahead, it just reminded me. :)
 
It was one of the Wade Hanna articles. I was thinking about that while I was scratching my chin today between sets hoping I wasn't getting weaker.

There's not a lot I can do about it, really. All I ever did for my triceps was to hammer out some close grip bench sets or a few triceps pushdowns while I was on any program. Extra CG bench I can manage but if I catch myself walking to the pushdown machine I'll end up having to do more bench or deads in penance.

I think I'll bump everything by 2.5Kg on Friday. Do another bump for Monday and then keep trying to bump through next week unless it's getting definitely too much. I do have sets to play with as an alternative to extra weight. Ideally: more sets and more weight. :)
 
ATF Squat: 30x10 for 2 sets, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 102.5 x 5 for 7 sets

thats a fair bit of volume there. how do you feel after that?
 
d-dub said:
ATF Squat: 30x10 for 2 sets, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 102.5 x 5 for 7 sets

thats a fair bit of volume there. how do you feel after that?
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Certainly well enough to continue with the rest of the workout and to bump the weights again today. I've mentioned in other posts that 100x5x5 had been my day1 squat in week3 of my last run of the madcow 5x5. I looked at my week4 from that run and it was a mess: I did 2 sets of 5 at 105Kg followed by three sets back at 100 and they were all with a belt. I also did less warmup volume back on the 5x5. I'll be bumping to 105Kg today and expecting at least six sets. I also don't have doms to speak of from that last workout.

If someone had told me that I'd be hitting 105 by the end of the third week three weeks ago I probably wouldn't have believed them, much as I'd have liked to. I'm obviously enjoying the benefits of the last run of the 5x5 and I'm acclimatizing to to the general volume of this program. I'm glad Super Rice posted when he did else I would have cruised through this week at 100Kg and trepidatiously bumped to 105 for the whole of next week.

Am I overtraining? I hope so since that's the intent of the dual-factor approach. I'm also finding that getting to the end of the workout is started to consume an effort of will. This, to me, is a sign of loading happening.

I've also been meaning to mention for a few days that I started on my all-out supplement stack of Creatine, Tribulus, ZMA, HMB, Glutamine last Sunday to help me through these last two weeks of loading. I take multi-vits/minerals and ginseng pretty much all the time anyway with occasional breaks on the ginseng.
 
Week 3 Day 3
I bumped all of the weights today by another 2.5Kg. First the bad news: I only did four sets at the new weight of 105Kg on Squats. The good news?: I bumped to 107.5Kg for the other three sets. :)

During those last three sets my left 'teardrop muscle' was telling me it was time to stop. With stretching I held it at bay but eventually listened to it and moved on to Bench. I think maybe the poor muscle was just suffering ongoing fatigue. It feels fine today.

Bench was ok and definitely not over-easy. I struggled to lock out more than once. On a few of the sets I found myself bringing the weight down to the nipple-line and sometimes even a shade higher on the chest. I was finding it easier to lower the weight to a higher spot on my chest.

I was gasping again by the time I got to Deadlift. A few sips of dextrose and I was moving along, though. I stopped when I did since I was getting that same over-use feeling on the right side of my lower back and into my right glute.

I finished off with the usual hamstring stretches and Needsize's abs 5x5. Total time of just over 1.5 hours. Slept almost 10 hours, which is good. I'm appalled at how long I'm spending on warmups except Deadlift warmups which I'm doing slightly fewer reps on these days since I reckon most of everything is already warmed up by then and it saves a few ergs of energy.

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 105 x 5 for 4 sets, 107.5 x 5 for 3 sets
Bench: 20x10NW, 40x8SW, 60x5W, 80x3S, 90x2N, 95 x 6 for 7 sets WNSNWSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130 x 5 for 7 sets
 
Jim Ouini said:
Glanced through them, seem like good reads. Thanks.

(don't know if I like the possibility of my bench going down, though ;))
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I just took another read through the Wade Hanna article on the Korte 3x3. One of the first things I noticed is that he had the Bench down as 5 reps during the volume phase. He was short-changing his sets by a significant percentage if he was doing only 5 reps instead of 6.

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/hanna12.htm
 
I've been noticing that my belt has been getting ever more loose as I've been getting dressed and I decided to weigh myself this morning.

When I started the Korte I weighed 117.4Kg, down from 122.8Kg three or four weeks prior. I'm back up to 118.8Kg but my waist has dropped by around 1-1.5 inches (~3cm). That's assuming my belt hasn't stretched over the past three weeks :)

Conversions:
117.4Kg - 258lbs
118.8Kg - 261lbs
122.8Kg - 270lbs

I'm wasting away.
 
Blut Wump said:
I just took another read through the Wade Hanna article on the Korte 3x3. One of the first things I noticed is that he had the Bench down as 5 reps during the volume phase. He was short-changing his sets by a significant percentage if he was doing only 5 reps instead of 6.

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/hanna12.htm
Click to expand...

Just thinking out loud (well not really I have to get excel open)...1 rep x 6 sets x 3 workouts per week x 400 (? didn't see his bench #'s) = 7200lbs

Weekly load = 6 reps x 6 sets x 3 workouts x 400 = 43200lbs

So ~17% less...wow that one rep really adds up. Lesson learned I guess is get your reps in prep/volume phase...

Reminds me that MC2 kept saying to make sure you choose your weights wisely and back off if you have to so you don't miss any reps in the volume phase.

Also, congrats on stretching your belt ;)
 
Indeed, it's a huge difference. Also if you look at the 1RM calcultors, the difference between the weight you can bench for 5 reps as against 6 reps is only about 3% or 4%. By dropping that single rep, his workload is down by around an eighth.

I know when I'm doing the bench sets I get to three and think 'no problems' and then remember that I'm having to hit six rather than the usual five reps. That extra rep is unpleasant and I'm sure that's the one I'd drop given the choice.

It's kind of gratifying to look at the weights lifted all summed in that way. The idea that I'm benching or squatting over half a ton per set is uplifting.
 
Week 4 Day 1

Well, I'm not sure whether this was a good workout. My bench collapsed utterly today. Not onto me, just metaphorically.

I bumped all the weights by another 2.5Kg. Squats seemed to be going well until I failed to rise on the last rep of the fourth set. I didn't even get any warning. Luckily I was working-in with someone so they could save me. I did the next three sets without any hitch.

The Bench was another matter. I reached my working sets and knew it wasn't going to go well. They just felt heavy as had the warmups. On the second and fourth sets I only got 5 reps. I didn't try for a sixth since there was no point. I took 2.5Kg off and got 3 reps. I removed another 5Kg and got 3 reps twice. After the Deadlift I went back to the Bench and did some more but I was pretty spent by then.

Deadlifts were fine. Running on almost empty but fine. The workout took almost 2 hours and I didn't bother with abs. I've little doubt that I'm getting into loading now. This week is going to be fun. I intend to bump Squat and Deadlift again.

Given that Squats actually went well aside from that single lapse half-way through and the Deadlift was fine, I probably have to think it was a good workout but the tatters of my erstwhile Bench are troubling. However, I absolutely and utterly could not have done the Squat part of this workout four months ago.


All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 110 x 5 for 7 sets - failed on fourth set
Bench: 20x10NW, 40x8SW, 60x5W, 80x3S, 90x2N, 97.5x6W, x5N, x6S, x5W, 95x3N, 90x3SW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 135 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench Part2: 80x6W, 95x6S, x4N - might have gotten more but I had a wobble and my enthusiasm and focus ran out.

Edit:
A slight amendment to the statement that I bumped the weights by 2.5Kg. I bumped the deads by 5Kg from Friday. The Squats were kind of bumped 5Kg, too, since I only did 3 sets on Friday at 107.5Kg.
 
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So waddya think, is the bench ~64% of your new projected max? Seems like you're timing it just about right though since this is the last week of prep phase.

And then next week the new Blut monster hatches...
 
Thank you for your kind words. :)

My projected 64% was 90Kg which was ages ago. I actually stepped right over it when I went from week2 to week3.

I don't really know what happened to the Bench. I know I find it hard to hit Bench straight after Squats but that's what all of those warmup sets are for. I'm sure I could come up with pseudo-reasons from the last 24 hours but Deads were fine and Squats were fine except for the minor glitch half way through.

It's at times like this that one misses madcow popping in with a reasonable explanation besides that I'm too weak or lazy to push the weight up.

As you say, almost time to pupate and come out as a Blutterfly.
 
Week 4 Day 2

A good workout. I bumped the Squat and Deadlift by another 2.5Kg. After Monday's fiasco on Bench I considered lowering the weight but I thought maybe the Monday session would have acted as a minor deload so kept the same weight. One of the Narrow grip reps was a struggle to lock out but otherwise great.

The workouts are now very gruelling. I just think of them one set at a time and try not to look ahead to what's still to be done. There's no getting fired up over anything: I just do the sets until they're done. I think I might be gettng psychologically dependent on my PWO drink during deads. Those sips really make a difference.

Not much else to say. I'm in uncharted territory with the ATF squats and they feel solid. I noticed that during bench I was again bringing the bar quite high. I guess the only question for my last workout in the Volume phase is whether I bump everything again or just Squats and Deadlift.

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 112.5 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10NS, 40x8W, 60x5N, 80x3S, 90x1W, 97.5 x 6 for 7 sets WSNWNSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 137.5 x 5 for 7 sets

Edit:
I forgot to mention that I finished off with the usual and mandatory hamstring stretches and also 5 sets of the abs 5x5.
 
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Week 4 Day 3

Well, I feel that I've survived the Korte. I had a monster sleep last night but I was a little anxious before the workout today and, as usual, the workout was done against an ocean of fatigue which you just learn to ignore. It went well. I bumped all three exercises by another 2.5Kg.

The Squats felt heavy. It's hard to be sure how much is just fatigue but they all went up and down well enough. I recall grunting a couple of times but never felt that any rep was likely to fail. It was a joy to finish the last set.

Bench up again. It makes the Monday workout even more of an oddity and I actually felt more in control of today's weight than Wednesday's. I received my copy of 'Starting Strength' this week and I made an effort today to try to rotate my chest up. Maybe it helped. After I reached six sets I had to choose whether to do one last one at Wide but I reckoned that I had one more in me at Shoulder Width so ended up doing 8 sets at 100Kg. When I started the Bench today I had that feeling that I could have taken a PR for weight if I'd wanted to. I've no idea how successful I'd have been but it felt very solid. The last three sets took grunts to finish.

Deads went fine. I was trying to concentrate on extending my knees before anything else. My lower back was bleating again. I had considered going for 8 sets but after the 7th I'd had enough. The Volume phase was over.

I'll offer reflections on the Volume phase and thoughts on the Intensity phase over the weekend when I'm feeling more alert. One thing I did notice between Squat sets today is that I'm scheduled to add 5Kg for a couple of singles next week. Hmm.


All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 110x1, 115 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10SN, 40x8W, 60x5N, 80x3S, 90x1W, 100 x 6 for 8 sets SNWSWNSW - last three took a grunt to close but solid
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 140 x 5 for 7 sets
 
it might have been posted here, but do you mind throwing up a sample day of what your diet looks like blut wump?

Kudos to you for keeping such a detailed journal. I am very interested in hearing realworld experience of a program as demanding as Korte's 3x3.

Do you feel this program neglects cosmetics a bit much? or are you even concerend abotu that?
 
view said:
it might have been posted here, but do you mind throwing up a sample day of what your diet looks like blut wump?

Kudos to you for keeping such a detailed journal. I am very interested in hearing realworld experience of a program as demanding as Korte's 3x3.

Do you feel this program neglects cosmetics a bit much? or are you even concerend abotu that?
Click to expand...
Diet doesn't get a lot of attention but most days are pretty much the same:
Milk and oats within an hour or so of waking with all my morning supps
Noodles and chicken breast a couple of hours later. Sometimes tuna instead. Sweet potato instead of noodles if I've recently been to the supermarket.
A milk and protein shake about an hour before the gym - this often gets missed
Noodles and chicken again when I get home from the gym or just a sandwich of some sort on off days. Pate and salami, peanut butter and jelly, cheese and ham, whatever, really. Often three or four eggs with a couple of slices of toast, instead.
A solid evening meal with plenty of protein (chicken/bacon/eggs) and lots of veggies. I've been trying lately to cut out evening carbs but sometimes I cook a decent pasta since my SO loves my tomato sauces. If I feel I've earned it from the gym I might treat myself with the super-everything kebab from the kebab shop but that's rare.
3 hours or so gap before bed so that I can take my bedtime supps
30 minutes later... Cheese with a milk and protein drink
Sleep.

If anyone cares to take a stab at guessing what my caloric intake is likely to be from that, I'd be glad to hear it. I weigh around 265, low 20s BF, probably. Maybe sub 20% but unlikely.

I've not felt any lack of cosmetics from doing the program. I was concerned about my lats but I had doms in them over the first couple of weeks. Go figure. I reckoned it must have been from the benching. I think my anterior delts might be showing a bit more benefit than the other heads. Triceps, obviously are doing fine. I could care less about biceps but I think they've grown too. Before I started the Korte, though, I spent a month touching up the cosmetics like traps and biceps so I could just be getting carry-through from that work.

At the end of the day, if I feel that I look big and strong I don't care too much that I might end up looking like a Neanderthal. I'm only half-way through the program so far, though. There's another month of neglect still to come as I do the Intensity phase.
 
Congrats on finishing the tough part (that was the tough part, right?).

Nice reference for me, not just the weight progression but mental/physical state as well. Awesome work.

So - how do you feel about hitting your new projected maxes now in 4 weeks? Pretty doable? I haven't gone over the #'s but it seems like you got stronger during the prep phase?
 
Thanks for the congrats. Just like with the 5x5 I feel that I've done the hard part on completing the Volume phase and can now sit back while the royalties pour in for a couple of weeks.

I've little doubt that I would be able to finish the Intensity phase on the original projections. That, however, is one of the aspects on which I need to reflect. How far do I try to take the next phase? The basic Korte increments are done and dusted I reckon and I need to decide what numbers I'll be aiming for. My first thoughts are 200Kg deadlift and 160Kg squat. I'm hesitant to plot out the bench since I seem to have a mental blockage at 3 plates. I need a target, though, and it might as well be to press 3 plates in week 8 rather than have it as my new max.

Similarly with the dead and squat. I think I'll plan to be deading 200Kg (450) in week 8 and ATF squatting 160Kg (360).

I tried to note my mental and fatigue states as I went along since they're, in a way, more useful to look back on if I do the run again. Super Rice stepping in and telling me to work harder was a huge kick in the pants. A lot seemed to kick in over the last couple of weeks. I even found myself toying with the idea of a fifth week of Volume earlier this evening. I've decided to put that down to fatigue-induced delerium.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm rambling and it's way past my bedtime so I'll get back to this after some sleep.
 
Volume Phase Summary

All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

Week 1
Day 1
ATF Squat: 60x10, 80x4, 87.5 x 5 for six sets - nothing much to report
Bench: 60x5W, 60x5N, 82.5 x 6 x 6 SWSNSW - last two sets were starting to feel tiring and I was looking forward to deadlifts
Dead: 60x10, 80x5, 100x3, 112.5 x 5 for 7 sets - no strain but tiring

Day 2
ATF Squats: Barx10, 40x8, 60x5, 87.5 x 5 x 5 - knee hurt on set 4
Bench: Barx10S, 40x8N, 60x5W, 82.5 x 6 for 8 sets NSNWNSNW - locking out on last rep of last two Narrow sets and final Wide set was neither hard nor trivial
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x5, 100x3, 112.5 x 5 for six sets - nothing much to report. Didn't feel as much of a chore today but I recall thinking a couple of times that I'd just done a rep with less than good form.

Day 3
ATF Squat: 20x10, 40x8, 60x5, 87.5 x 5 for 8 sets - two penguin sets + 6 very classical stance, lower back ache + bad right knee
Bench: 40x10N, 60x6S, 82.5 x 6 for 8 sets WSNSWSWN - triceps would have let me down had I continued with more sets
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x6, 100x3, 112.5 x 5 for 8 sets - nothing to report except a lack of lower back ache

Week 2
Day 1
ATF Squat: 20x10, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 95 x 5 x 5 - knees better but not good
Bench: 20x10S, 40x8N, 60x5W, 80x2S, 87.5 x 6 x 6 NSNWNS - triceps starting to fade again
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x5, 100x3, 120 x 5 for 7 sets - lower back aching a lot again

Day 2
ATF Squat: 20x10, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 95 x 5 for 6 sets
Bench: 20x10N, 40x8S, 60x5W, 80x2S, 87.5 x 6 for 7 sets WSNSNSW
Dealift: 60x10, 80x8, 100x5, 120 x 5 for 6 sets

Day 3
ATF Squat: 20x15, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 95 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10NS, 40x8NW, 60x5SW, 80x2SN, 87.5 x 6 for 7 sets WNSNSNW
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x8, 100x5, 120 x 5 for 7 sets

Week 3
Day 1
ATF Squat: 20x10 for 2 sets, 40x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100 x 5 for 6 sets
Bench: 20x10NW, 40x8SN, 60x5SW, 80x2NS, 92.5 x 6 for 6 sets WSNSWN - last rep of last set was a struggle to lock out
Deadlift: 60x10, 80x8, 100x5, 120x2, 125 x 5 for 7 sets

Day 2
ATF Squat: 30x10 for 2 sets, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 102.5 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10SW, 40x8NW, 60x5S, 80x3N, 92.5 x 6 for 7 sets WNSNWSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 127.5 x 5 for 7 sets - short-shifted the warmups

Day 3
ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 105 x 5 for 4 sets, 107.5 x 5 for 3 sets
Bench: 20x10NW, 40x8SW, 60x5W, 80x3S, 90x2N, 95 x 6 for 7 sets WNSNWSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130 x 5 for 7 sets

Week 4
Day 1
ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 110 x 5 for 7 sets - failed on fourth set
Bench: 20x10NW, 40x8SW, 60x5W, 80x3S, 90x2N, 97.5x6W, x5N, x6S, x5W, 95x3N, 90x3SW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 135 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench Part2: 80x6W, 95x6S, x4N - might have gotten more but I had a wobble and my enthusiasm and focus ran out.

Day 2
ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 112.5 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10NS, 40x8W, 60x5N, 80x3S, 90x1W, 97.5 x 6 for 7 sets WSNWNSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 137.5 x 5 for 7 sets

Day 3
ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x2, 110x1, 115 x 5 for 7 sets
Bench: 20x10SN, 40x8W, 60x5N, 80x3S, 90x1W, 100 x 6 for 8 sets SNWSWNSW - last three took a grunt to close but solid
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 140 x 5 for 7 sets

It'll be easier to do a printout with all the lifts in one place and easier to look over them in the future.

Firstly, it's a relief to think that the Volume phase is over and that in itself is a telling sign of loading. The workouts began in week 1 at a fairly brisk pace taking around 45 minutes and ended up much more sedate and taking 90 minutes or more.

I was spending a lot more time on warmups in the last couple of weeks, though, and these were time-consuming. The knee trouble from the first week never went away and I think that the warmups helped with that along with being very careful about foot-stance. I'm sure that the extra warmups were needed on bench, too, since it was taking me two or three worksets to get going in the earlier weeks. I ended up reducing warmups for deadlift, at least in number of reps. I was typically shattered by the time deads came around in the last couple of weeks and those few reps saved were more for peace of mind than saving the muscles.

The Squats have exceeded all expectations. I only began doing ATF squats a few months ago and many muscles probably needed time to catch up along with my needing to improve technique. During the last run of the madcow 5x5 in week7 I was doing 110Kg for 3x3 with a belt needed. I finished this Volume phase with 115x7x5 without a belt. Simply no comparison and I have no idea where my squat max is likely to be going over the next four weeks. I've gone almost 20Kg over the projected 64%. If I were to take my 115 as being 64% then that would indicate 180Kg (405). I know I can do that in belt and wraps to parallel. I need to be flexible with this as the Intensity phase gets under way. Careful not to short-change myself and careful not to overdo the weight through over-enthusiasm.

Bench was a bit of a mixed bag. I had felt that I'd been losing bench strength over the three or four weeks between ending the last 5x5 and starting this. I'd been cutting bodyweight and my bench had been slipping down. The starting weights didn't feel particularly heavy but it was hard work getting the sets in. As with the other exercises, I acclimatized to the volume and ended up going over the projected 64%, by 10Kg. I can't accept that I'd have any hope of pressing 156Kg so the idea of extrapolating the 64% back out to a new max isn't valid so I should ignore the 180Kg idea on the squat too. The last week on Bench was odd with Day1 imploding on itself and then bumping the weight two sessions later for 8 sets. My last 5x5 volume phase had ended on 112.5Kg for 5x5 but all with my best grip. Overall, Bench was fairly unremarkable with some slow, steady progression.

Deadlift is hard to think about mostly because I could hardly think when I came to do them. During the first week, they kind of felt like a chore. I started to enjoy them more during the second week and then just did them over the last couple of weeks. Lower back ache coming and going. Without a shadow of doubt my back is stronger than it was a month ago. We have a big water-overflow butt I need to tip out from time to time and that has become a much easier task. I've gone almost 20Kg over the projected 64% the same as with Squats. I was doing about the same at the end of the last 5x5 Volume phase but not for seven sets and the 3x per week nature of the Korte is more pertinent to deadlifts in comparison with the 5x5 than for Squat and Bench since the 5x5 only had me deading once per week. I'll have to see where it takes me.

I think overall I have to agree with Jim that I have gotten stronger over the past four weeks. Hey, I'm not Elite yet so I can still pick up Volume-phase gains. My capacity for working through fatigue has certainly increased. If I can do the same again over the next four weeks, I'll be one very happy mammal.
 
BiggT said:
I agree that the 5x5 is a great way to get people on the road to understanding how to make progress.....it isn't the be all and end all.....but the theory behind it is.....add weight to the bar, get strong, get big. Drop sets and down sets and triple bomb blast sets will be the last thing on your mind once you focus on progressively increasing weight on selected main movements. The program teaches you to think for yourself and to evaluate a program for yourself. If you don't like 5x5, do 3x8 or 4x12 or 3x10 or 3x3, whatever, just be consistent and gradually up the weight, focus on big lifts and realize what a "foo foo" exercise is and why, although you get a 'pump' from them, they are an utter waste of time.

About gear, I ran 5x5 programs with gear in the past. You can push that much harder, gain that much faster, and recover that much quicker. You can ram up the workload more, you can add extras, and excessive soreness to the point of screwing up the routine is a non-issue. It is an enhancement, nothing more, nothing less. Instead of mon-wed-fri.....I'd train mon-tues-wed-fri-sat.....sat was for rowing, tricep and bicep work and calves.....tues was for snathes.....I'd flat bp on mon, ohp on tues, incline on wed, and do close grips and flat bp to 90% on fri.....if i did that now i'd over reach in week 1, lol....but with a little test and deca, my shoulder girdle thrived.....I'd back squat heavy mon, do oh squat tues, front sq and gms on wed, and back sq to 90% on fri.....again, I modified it, since my recovery abilities were that much greater, I could do more work in a week and thrive, thus progress faster......gear is gear, it certainly won't hurt your training, lol.

This was in college and I'd typically run 10 weeks of Testosterone Cypionate or Enanthate (400mg/week) and Deca-Durabolin (400mg/week).......The long lasting esters of test and the nandrolone allowed me to still 'feel it' for several weeks after my last shots, so I had flexibility with my deloading, I usually loaded 5 weeks, deloaded 1, loaded 4 weeks, deloaded 1, then came in after the last deload to try to PR on either singles or reps to failure.....then just trained light and low-workload for a good 5 or 6 weeks until my body was back to 'normal'.

I am not advising anyone to do this, lol....it is just a tale of my own experiences.....I did 4 of these cycles in my life, it was in the late-90's and the gear was human-grade, potent, and did what it was supposed to.....not like the crap guys use now, underground and under-dosed.....a gram a week of vet or mexican test for 4 weeks and still waiting for it to 'kick in', lol, I'd day you got ripped off....anyway, I am rambling and I'll stop now.
Click to expand...
BiggT said:
I am glad it was somewhat helpful. I never thought of gear as a means to 'get big' or 'get strong'. I think this way of thinking is responsible for so much of its misuse and abuse. I never thought in terms of taking something for 8 weeks, blowing up, stopping, then shrinking.

I always used it as a means to recover faster, much, much faster, and allow myself to do A LOT more work during my training cycle, to extend the training cycle. You can really ram up the poundages on the medium day and not worry about it effecting you on your next heavy day, on the 'light' day, sometimes I'd hit a few heavy doubles or singles on the front squat because I felt good and I didn't have to sweat it on Friday.

But to sum it up, I more or less "rode the gear" to keep gaining and gaining and gaining in the weight room, when normally I would have peaked, deloaded, and eventually hit a plateau.

Knowing more now than I did then, I'd probably run a 12-16 week cycle of a low dose of test, a low dose of deca, and a little equipoise if it was available. I feel the 12-16 weeks allows more time to just ride the recovery abilities and keep gaining steadily. You could , say, load 3/deload1 and do this 3 or 4 times one after the other. With say 200-400mg of test, 200-400mg of deca, and 100-200mg of eq, you won't 'explode' per say, but you will be able to train hard and long for a long period of time and recover and make gains, and your body will recomposition.....you are still depending on your sound training program, you are just enhancing its effectiveness and kind of prolonging the life of your gains, making them greater. I'd definitely recommend proper use of ancillaries and regular bloodwork with a 3-4 month cycle though.

I would NEVER do this, but just for conversation's sake, I have talked with people and learned that a lot of top, world-class level strength athletes stay on year round. It is not uncommon for guys to run 500-600mg of test a week all year, cycling different esters, and then upping it to 1-2 grams before a competition. That is not something I would do, then again, if it were my livlihood, I guess you'd have to ask me the same question then.
Click to expand...
Apologies to BiggT for copying his posts out of context from Here but I wanted to keep them for future reference. My view of supplements has always been that I lift to lift weights and become stronger not to get bigger and bulge a lot. Supps are an aid not a crutch. He articulated well the idea of using gear to help one to help the body to do what it does progressively and steadily.
 
Intensity Phase

Well, this is where I could end up breaking the whole program by pushing too hard and failing to deload properly. Still, if that were my biggest worry then I could stop now and take whatever I already have. To maximize gains, I need to make fresh projections and try to account for any gains I've already acquired through the Volume phase since only by pushing hard in the Intensity phase can I make those gains carry through to further gains in neuromuscular efficiency.

In an earlier post I suggested that fresh targets of 160Kg for Squat, 140Kg for Bench and 200Kg for Deadlift seemed plausible. Looking at them, they now seem scary, especially the Squat. I'm going to project for them and if I seem to be out of my depth then I'll try to adjust.

Code: 
           60%       W5       W6      W7        W8
           ---       --       --      --        --
Squat:     100      130      140     150       160
Bench:      90      117.5    125     132.5     140
Deadlift:  125      167.5    180     190       200
If I hit these numbers I'll be most pleased. It does mean aiming for Deadlift and Squat PRs in week 7 and new PRs all around in week 8.
 
Awesome progress on the volume phase Blut Wump. The new projections seem plausible based on the progress so far (from where I'm sitting anyway). Shame about the bench being so stubborn. It'd be nice if you could get to 142.5, just so you know you're definitely past the 3 plates mental-block you mentioned at the start. The thought of adding on 1.25kg to each side once you've loaded 3 plates just seems silly though :)

These next four weeks should be fun. Good luck!

... sits back with popcorn.
 
anotherbutters said:
Awesome progress on the volume phase Blut Wump. The new projections seem plausible based on the progress so far (from where I'm sitting anyway). Shame about the bench being so stubborn. It'd be nice if you could get to 142.5, just so you know you're definitely past the 3 plates mental-block you mentioned at the start. The thought of adding on 1.25kg to each side once you've loaded 3 plates just seems silly though :)

These next four weeks should be fun. Good luck!

... sits back with popcorn.
Click to expand...
Thanks. It's good to hear someone suggest that the numbers look plausible. Every time I look at them, anxiety makes me want to lower them. Having an outside view helps me to believe.

I know what you mean about the 142.5. I was just looking at the bench numbers and I might add 2.5Kg to them. That would, at least, have me equalling my old PR in week7 which will be a big boost for the following week since it will be so easy. ;)

If you're sitting comfortably...
 
Blut Wump said:
Thanks. It's good to hear someone suggest that the numbers look plausible. Every time I look at them, anxiety makes me want to lower them. Having an outside view helps me to believe.
Click to expand...

YOU CAN DO IT /Bella Karoli

*hugs Blut Wump*
 
I weighed myself again this morning.

Last Sunday I was a svelte 118.8Kg, today I'm a porcine 121.0Kg. All that hard work dieting just to catch the express to heaviesville. This program is a disaster. ;)

My belt is still loose but, I think, less so than last week.
 
Actually, I've been eating a fair bit these past few days. Not really so much eating more as just not holding back as much. I need food for recovery and I've decided that my bench problems last Monday were due to lack of sustenance. :)

I'm also aching just about everywhere today which tells me that the muscles are taking up all these nutrients and asking for more.

The sleep has been hitting too.
 
Revised Intensity Phase Weight
Code: 
[b]
           60%       W5       W6      W7        W8
           ---       --       --      --        --
Squat:     100      130      140     150       160
Bench:      90      120      127.5   135       140
Deadlift:  125      167.5    180     190       200[/b]
I've bumped some of the bench weights as per an earlier post.
 
Blut Wump said:
Revised Intensity Phase Weight
Code: 
[b]
           60%       W5       W6      W7        W8
           ---       --       --      --        --
Squat:     100      130      140     150       160
Bench:      90      120      127.5   135       140
Deadlift:  125      167.5    180     190       200[/b]
I've bumped some of the bench weights as per an earlier post.
Click to expand...

Are you going to go for these on Monday after a weekend of rest? And then Wed and Fri are 60% days.
 
The Intensity Phase has me doing heavy
Deadlift on Monday
Bench on Wednesday
Squat on Friday

'Non-heavy' lifts are done at the 60% weight for 3x3 for Squat and Deadlift and for 5 sets of 4 for Bench.

So, Monday's workout will be:
Squat: 100Kg 3x3
Bench: 90Kg 5 sets of 4
Deadlift: 167.5Kg for 1-2 singles

It'll hardly be worth my while to warm up.
 
An I see that make more sense to break up all the heavy days and separate dead and squat as much as you can.
 
Jim Ouini said:
An I see that make more sense to break up all the heavy days and separate dead and squat as much as you can.
Click to expand...
I'm also hoping that I'll be able to attempt a deadlift without feeling bleary-eyed while I'm doing it.

I'm not yet sure why the Bench gets so much Volume. You have to think while you're running this program either that Korte has a really poor bench and felt the need to work it or his bench was so good that he simply had no respect for it.

It seems like a good system. On each day, two of the exercises go light while you work the third. This might be why the program doesn't have a fixed deload period, as such. Also you only do singles on the heavy lifts; none of this heavy 3x3 nonsense.
 
Week 5 Day 1

First day of the Intensity Phase. It wasn't the easy ride I was half expecting. My legs were still aching from last week and my knee was still giving me grief.

Putting the ache in my legs aside, though, the Squats went fine. No real surprise considering I was only doing 9 reps rather than the 35 reps last Friday with a higher weight.

Ditto Bench: no big deal. The Korte articles don't mention cycling the grip during this phase but I decided to do it anyway. I decided the do sets 1, 3, 5 with my Wide grip and slot the other two in between.

Deadlift was a bit of a shock. It felt heavy and that includes the sets to get up to the weight I was doing on Friday. I still felt tired when I reached deads and my lower thighs were aching as was my lower back again. I think I'm still a bit of a wreck from last week and I'm glad I have until Friday before attempting my first heavy(ish) squat. I was in a bit of a quandary as to how to ramp my warmup sets. I didn't want to make too large a leap at any stage but I was also concerned about burning away my precious energy. The second top single went up comfortably enough but I felt like I was going to pop a blood vessel.

I have a concern about the 60% weights in that maybe they are too low. I might have to see about bumping them as time passes.


All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x3x3
Bench: 20x10NS, 40x8W, 60x5N, 80x3S, 90 x 4 for 5 sets WNWSW
Deadlift: 60x8, 80x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x1, 140x1, 150x1, 160x1, 167.5 x 1 for 2 sets
 
You're still loaded. Hopefully you will deload and find things easier, quicker than the weights go up and you find things harder, if you know what I mean :)

Are there any kind of guidelines anywhere for the total number of warmup sets to do when building up to a heavy single? To my (inexperienced) eye, I'd say you were doing too many and the top warmup was too close to the actual top set. What do you think about this:

Deadlift: 60x8, 90x5, 110x3, 130x1, 150x1, 167.5 x 1 for 2 sets

That's still 5 warmup sets. I'm asking a question as much as suggesting anything.

As for the 60% weights, the main concern is obviously not them, but the singles. I'd keep the 60% as they are until you're happy with the singles.
 
gotta agree with anotherbrutters here. stick with the 60% effort on the other lifts. You have a huge load that needs to be deloading.
 
Thanks to both of you. There's no question that I'm loaded to the gills. I can hardly credit that I was considering for a while on Friday that it might be worth trying to run another Volume week to dig myself in deeper. Insanity.

The 'warmups' today were a bit of a dilemma. I was confident that I would be able to lift the top set but I was not confident that some part of me wouldn't decide the weight was too heavy if I made too large a leap. I think I need to find something part way between what I did and what AB suggested. Of course, it gets worse each week as the top set gets higher. I'll see if a Plat search comes up with some good suggestions. I recall Curgeo giving someone advice.

I'll not be messing with the 60% weights until they really do start to feel too light. One aspect to the 60% weights, though, is that if I were using a suit or shirt then the raw 60% lifts would be heavier than they are since I do all my lifts raw. Still, deloading is the first priority at this time.
 
Let us know if you find anything interesting on the warmups. I think you're right to cut some out, it's just a matter of how many and I'm sure there isn't a 'correct' answer. The fact that today was hard suggests that there were too many.

When you said you didn't want to make too large a leap at any stage, if you think about them as percentages, they're no bigger no matter which week you're in. Compare a big guy pulling 600 with a little guy pulling 200. Who needs more warmups? I'd venture they're the same.

On the suit, from what I remember Korte suggests wearing the suit only for the last two weeks, and I can only assume that it doesn't apply to the 60% weights in those two weeks. Why bother suiting up for a 60% lift when the purpose of those particular days is the single in deads or squats?
 
Here's a link with a couple more links inside it from madcow:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393729

Don't forget that I've not pulled heavy for over a month and that I'm fatigued. They felt heavy around the point I was passing 100Kg but I was confident my muscles could cope to the end. I was mostly nursing my CNS which is unused to the exertion. I think I do typically take smallish increments when I start to get close to a top lift. It's just that today I crept up slowly through the lower end too.

On the suit and 60% aspect: if I were to wear a suit, belt and wraps then my top squat would be closer to 200Kg or more than the 160Kg I'm aiming for. Accordingly, my 60% value would be closer to 120Kg since all percentages are taken from your fully-equipped competition lifts even though you do most of the program raw. I think it's one of the flaws of the Korte and the way it considers its percentages. You only use gear for the heavy lifts in the Intensity Phase. All I have is my belt for the squats.
 
Comp phase is de facto deloading, correct? You've cut your volume and kept intensity high, increasing it as it were. Or would it have been better to do a 'Week 5 Madcow' and cut your volume while keeping the weights the same as Week 4 for proper deloading?

As far as warmups go I too will be interested to see how you approach it as you approach 100% 1RM. I feel the same way in that I like to be within sight of my top weight just for the confidence thingy.

Today a guy I know was deadlifting and he said 405 x 10 was 'easy' (touch 'n go, but still his first went up no problem) and he slapped another plate on (he'd never done it). He had his hands on the bar and it didn't budge at all. he tried 2 more times and nothing, I think mentally he was gone already.
 
Jim Ouini said:
Comp phase is de facto deloading, correct? You've cut your volume and kept intensity high, increasing it as it were. Or would it have been better to do a 'Week 5 Madcow' and cut your volume while keeping the weights the same as Week 4 for proper deloading?

As far as warmups go I too will be interested to see how you approach it as you approach 100% 1RM. I feel the same way in that I like to be within sight of my top weight just for the confidence thingy.

Today a guy I know was deadlifting and he said 405 x 10 was 'easy' (touch 'n go, but still his first went up no problem) and he slapped another plate on (he'd never done it). He had his hands on the bar and it didn't budge at all. he tried 2 more times and nothing, I think mentally he was gone already.
Click to expand...
It's a mixture of both increased and reduced intensity since two of the three workouts on any exercise are at the 60% weight, down from last week's slugathon. The heavy days for each exercise are at a higher intensity but only for singles. I recall Super Rice considering the likely need for a designated deload week but when he got to this stage found that it wasn't needed.

I'm still not sure about warmups. I should throw less energy at the lower end, for sure. Do enough pure warmup to be warmed up and then get quickly into some serious sets. The heavy day calls for 1 or 2 singles but I have to bear in mind that this is my full workout for that exercise. It makes sense to me to be getting in some more singles at 90%+ of my target weight. Yesterday, for example, the 150Kg was 90% and the 160Kg was 95% of the 167.5Kg. It's not as though the 167.5 was an all-out 1RM attempt and the extra sets should be going towards strength building rather than trying to get my top single in and calling it a day. I might view week 8 a little differently.

The CNS and mental fortitude play a big part in lifting heavy. Sometimes it's just a matter of refusing to allow the weight any kind of vote. I've read that grip can cause a lift to fail and not just for the obvious reason of letting go. The mind knows that your grip won't survive a lift and then sends the signals to the back that the lift is impossible. Net result being that the weight is glued down or you fail after just breaking the floor. I've had in the past weights suddenly seem easy after switching to a mixed grip and I've read that often people can lift way more with straps due to the proprioceptive feedback of a secure grip.

I'll try to remember to note in my posts when I switch to using a mixed grip.
 
Hmm just thinking out loud I probably would've tried 143 x 1, 152 x 1 and then 168 x 2 x 1...but that's just me since those are easy increments to add to the bar ;)

But the intensity phase does seem strange, maybe because I'm just used to 5 x 5 layout - I also would've thought more sets at the target intensity to build strength e.g., it's not clear to me how only 1 x 1 at 80% and a bunch of sets at 60% for the week is ideal...but it seems like Korte would've specified something like 80%-85%-90%-95% x 3 x 1-3 if that's what he wanted...

Blut Wump said:
I've read that grip can cause a lift to fail and not just for the obvious reason of letting go. The mind knows that your grip won't survive a lift and then sends the signals to the back that the lift is impossible.
Click to expand...

I've read the same. I know when I was working on my grip that as I reached my grip limit the lifts were pretty hard. Then I'd go mixed grip or strap and it would fly up.

But then I read that gloves (not that I use them) may 'deaden' the proprioception and not give proper the neural input for, say, a monster bench attempt. I thought it might also apply to straps for a pull...
 
Well, he definitely specifies singles. That's reasonable since it's a proper PL routine and you never get asked to lift a double or triple in a meet.

It is odd that he makes no recommendations on getting to those singles.
 
Week 5 Day 2

Today was the first day of the program that I had a feeling of 'Is that it?". Not too surprising since it was my first heavy bench day which meant that my legs were able to take a rest.

Lower back, hamstrings and thighs were aching as I began the Squat warmups but that mostly went away. Nothing else to report on Squats. I hope my legs feel another healthy chunk better by Friday.

Bench was fine. The lift felt a lot easier than the Deadlift on Monday. That could be a mixture of the jiggling I've done with the target weights and that I'm a couple of days further into deloading. The original projections would have had me doing 112.5Kg which would have been just too light. Even the two singles at 120Kg had me feeling that I should be doing a 3x3. Still, Korte knows best.

Nothing much to say about Deadlift either. I practiced dropping a warmup set. :)

Finished off with some hamstring stretches and five sets of Needsize's 5x5.


All weights in Kilos
Bench: N - Narrow, S - Shoulder width, W - Wide

ATF Squat: 20x10, 30x10, 50x8, 60x5, 80x3, 100x3x3
Bench: 20x10NS, 40x8W, 60x5W, 80x3N, 100x2W, 110x1W, 120x1WW
Deadlift: 60x8, 90x5, 110x3, 125x3x3
 
Let's hope I don't just end up opening a can of Wump-ass.

I don't yet like to think about week6. I'm not yet emotionally convinced that I can be hitting an old PR in Squat and coming to within 5Kg of my Deadlift PR and still have two further weeks beyond. As with much of this program, it's a case of head down and just do it. I'm waking up from the stress of the Volume phase and starting to think and it's not appropriate for this blood and guts program. I'm very much hoping that the Friday Squats feel comfortable. It'll be a big morale booster.

That aside, though, I'm feeling stronger and the only way to determine the improvement is to get in and lift some ever heavier iron.
 
Just as an aside, a guy at the gym asked me about my routine when I was doing 5 x 5 since he saw me squatting all the time. I kind of described Korte to him and he said he wanted to do it with me.

I've seen him train and he does the 1 bodypart/week workout and lots of machines, occasionally I see him dead and he has a pretty good bench. But he's admittedly never squatted much less 3 x week and I'm not sure about his conditioning.

Anyway, whaddya think, he'll get buried the first week (hell I might get buried the first week)? It actually might be OK since I'm not real keen on a training partner right now :p

Or worse he might even get hurt?
 
I'd suggest thinking back to your first 5x5 and how that felt. The Korte is worse.

Here's a post from madcow2 where he mentions the Korte several times in awe.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4798263&postcount=6

Still, if the guy is commited and has the mental fortitude to ignore the fatigue then do it. If the weights are slightly underestimated and not ramped so aggressively for him as Super Rice goaded me into then it might be a manageable cost in exchange for having a training partner if you want one.
 
Well I'm not really hankering for a workout partner right now - getting to the gym at a certain time, the idle chit chat, the jealous glances when I spot somebody else...

Seriously though, I don't know how you go from never squatting to Korte but like you said I guess if the weights are manageable for him and he has the desire to see it through it's possible.

*watch as I drop out after 2 weeks*

:FRlol: at MC2:

...it's pretty hard and no offense but it's not something I'd usually mention to a girl. That said, you are already deadlifting, you are committed, the choice is yours whether or not you want to use it. Personally, I'd be impressed. You'd have my vote for hardcore woman of the year because it has made weeping children out of more than a few hardened men.
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