Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

AAS induced stroke?

Swole_2112

New member
There's a friend of mine that used to juice to a resonable extent. He'd do 1-2 resonably heavy cycles per year. A little less than a year ago he had a couple of strokes. There wasn't a family history that I am aware of. Doctors said that it was a rare blood condition where the blood clots too easily. After talking to him he questions whether or not the use of juice caused his strokes or at least played some part. I think most of what he ran was d-bol, deca, and sust. Maybe one other thing but I'm not sure. So, what do ya'll think about the idea that the juice caused his strokes are at least played a helping hand in them? I honestly have no idea but would like to hear some others. Cheers.
 
Are you kidding me? He has no knonw family history and your saying it has nothing to do with AAS's? This is a load of bullshit. You can believe whatever you want but this statement is just trying to deny that gear can cause very harmful effects.
 
Ulter said:
Not with what he was using. Only high levels of Eq can cause clumping of red blood cells and blood too thick to pass through capillaries. But even that wouldn't cause stroke. It's unrelated to his AS use.

high levels being what dose?
 
if the AAS messed his blood lipids (this is a definite possibility), this is a risk factor for atherosclerosis. couple that with a fatty diet and you have a recipe for a stroke or heart attact. couple that with the hypertension inherent with AAS and that risk goes up further. i wouldn't say that AAS caused the stroke since there are many factors that could contribute, but i doubt it helped.
 
dr0832 said:
Are you kidding me? He has no knonw family history and your saying it has nothing to do with AAS's? This is a load of bullshit. You can believe whatever you want but this statement is just trying to deny that gear can cause very harmful effects.
Dude, you're an idiot. You dont even know what this guy looks like inside his body. He could have put himself into that position by his improper diet. He should go to a doctor, do all kinds of bloodwork and then say shit. It's idiots like you that give AAS a bad name.

People die of heart attacks all the time, most of them dont have history of heart disease. It's their diet that's killing them.
 
Ulter said:
Not with what he was using. Only high levels of Eq can cause clumping of red blood cells and blood too thick to pass through capillaries. But even that wouldn't cause stroke. It's unrelated to his AS use.
Agree, that's why we have aspirin, to prevent blood clotting. Learn it people, it's called "Aspirin"!
 
yomama said:
Agree, that's why we have aspirin, to prevent blood clotting. Learn it people, it's called "Aspirin"!
aspirin does a great job for preventing strokes as it prevents platelet aggregation and subsequent thrombosis but won't do anything for atherosclerosis except prevent platelet aggregation about the site of atheroma. the combination of aspirin with a clean diet high in fiber would be optimal though.
 
dr0832 said:
Are you kidding me? He has no knonw family history and your saying it has nothing to do with AAS's? This is a load of bullshit. You can believe whatever you want but this statement is just trying to deny that gear can cause very harmful effects.

Can you show me the literature that proves AS contributes to stroke? No?
Then saying it does is a load of bullshit. Since he already has a diagnosis of blood clotting, which is not a result of AS use, saying that it did means you are talking off the top of your head rather than from an informed position.


Optimus B said:
if the AAS messed his blood lipids (this is a definite possibility),

Most recent research (last 20 years) shows that AS has no significant affect on lipid profiles (although this is not true of anti-e's). And no research ever shows that short term fluctuations in lipid profiles, such as those you encounter in cycles, contributes to stroke.
 
How old was he, what did he eat and what condition was he in when he had the stroke?

I am 55 and had a stress test about a month a go, my heart is fine, but bp is high, in my family.
 
Ulter said:
Most recent research (last 20 years) shows that AS has no significant affect on lipid profiles (although this is not true of anti-e's). And no research ever shows that short term fluctuations in lipid profiles, such as those you encounter in cycles, contributes to stroke.
you are right about the other lipids but high testosterone does in fact suppress HDL cholesterol leading to suppressed ability to protect against atherosclerosis.

like i said, i highly doubt AAS is solely to blame for the stroke as it is a very multifactorial condition, but it is a factor.
 
Ulter said:
Can you show me the literature that proves AS contributes to stroke? No?
Then saying it does is a load of bullshit. Since he already has a diagnosis of blood clotting, which is not a result of AS use, saying that it did means you are talking off the top of your head rather than from an informed position.




Most recent research (last 20 years) shows that AS has no significant affect on lipid profiles (although this is not true of anti-e's). And no research ever shows that short term fluctuations in lipid profiles, such as those you encounter in cycles, contributes to stroke.


I can show you were AAS causes high BP and how high BP can cause a stroke. There are other types of strokes than just occlusive people. Hemorrhagic? As in a blood vessel bursts due to high stress? It is VERY possible that this is what caused his stroke. Not saying that it did.
 
swole 2112:
You started the thread and then disappeared.
You should answer questions like how old was he as people have asked.
Did he smoke?
Did he had high blood pressure?
Did he had Diabetes?
 
Ulter said:
It looks like no one plans to read the post. HE HAS A BLOOD CLOTTING DISEASE!!!


Show me where AS use has been proven to cause high blood pressure that resulted in stroke. Not an extrapolation that you put together.

If he has a blood clotting disease then yes, I would go with that.

The bottom line is, high BP causes stroke. I have treated many stroke patients that stroked because of their high BP. I'm not going to do a search and find every person who has died from a hemorrhagic stroke and find out if they were juicing or not. How about you show me where AAS doesn't cause high BP and that people don't stroke because of high BP.
 
Better yet, I'll end with this:


What causes it? The most common cause of intracerebral hemorrhage is high blood pressure (hypertension). Since high blood pressure by itself often causes no symptoms, many people with intracranial hemorrhage are not aware that they have high blood pressure, or that it needs to be treated. Less common causes of intracerebral hemorrhage include trauma, infections, tumors, blood clotting deficiencies, and abnormalities in blood vessels (such as arteriovenous malformations). View an interactive tutorial on arteriovenous malformations from the Toronto Brain Vascular Malformation Study Group.


http://www.strokecenter.org/pat/ich.htm
 
No, but an order of fries with too much salt while driving home from getting laid off can do the same thing.
I am saying that since there are approximately 3 million men in the US using steroids. Why aren't they dropping dead all over the country of stroke? Is because the condition your referring to is highly unlikely even with high blood pressure?
 
I am as big a juicer as most here and i am here to tell you that high bp can cause a stroke. My friend had one last year and is now walking on a walker and can hardly talk. He is only 40 years old. Now dont get me wrong he juiced almost all year long but still....

E
 
Nope. The leading cause of an Intracerebral Hemorrhagic (ICH) stroke is high BP. And ICH makes up 15-20% of all the stroke patients. It is the second leading type of stroke.There are 3 different types, occlusive or ischemic (blockage), intercerebral (arteries inside the brains) and subarachnoid ( arteries in the head but outside the brain).
 
Ulter said:
I just proved you don't know anything about steroids. :)


How so? I stated that AAS causes high BP, which has been proven over and over, and you stated that high BP does not cause stroke.
;)
 
Ulter said:
Thanks. Now how many of those were athletes as opposed to obese? How many died walking up the stairs? Again, you're not giving me any statistics relating to this thread, or steroid users.


I spent many years in the Marine Corps. During those years, my respective Units had 6 Marines (Marines that could run 3 miles in under 18 minutes, very strong and healthy) die of stroke. 3 were on AAS.


I'm not giving you any statistics because I don't have the time or need to find them. All I know is that

AAS= high BP

and

BP= (sometimes) equals stroke


If there are 3 million Americans on AAS then there HAS to be seom dying of stroke related to high BP caused by the use of AAS.

Also, the bro above just told you his friend stroked out because of high BP and AAS use.

One more thing. I juice, so I am not biased here. I just realize ALL the possible side effects and dangers of their use.
 
What I am arguing is that the typical AS user is not a candidate for stroke simply because he uses AS. MOST people use anti-e's which eliminate the E2 that causes the water retention and high blood pressure. So most people cycle without raising their BP any significant degree.
My original point was to say that this person to whom the thread was addressed was not using AS that would have been the reason for his stroke. Mainly because his condition was diagnosed otherwise.
 
The way I see it, there are 5 factors involved in strokes and bodybuilding.

Diet, training/cardiovascular, genetics, AAS, and supplement regime. The extent to which each affects an individual could vary quite substantially.

I would like to believe AAS do not impact health, but my bloodwork would seem to indicate that this is not the case.

That said, with a healthy diet, exercise, and supplement regime one can win the health battle, even while using AAS. I myself am winning the cholesterol battle as we speak.

Here is one thing that has always made me wonder a bit though. If we compared steroid users at age 40 to the rest of the population, would there be more strokes and heart attacks in users compared to non-users? I'm not sure there would be a statistically significant difference. So many people, both AAS and non-AAS users will experience such an event. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any literature on the subject and I doubt any exists.

The bottom line is this: Use, do not abuse; get regular bloodwork done; take the necesarry precautions and be safe.
 
When I read the post and saw blood clotting disorder, I thought of Polycythemia. Since testosterone can cause an increase of RBCs, and he was using a blend of testosterone, a blockage could have occurred due to the increase of RBCs combined with the clotting disorder.
 
The Heretic said:
I understand that, but to blantantly say that AAS can't cause stroke is wrong. That's all I meant by my posts.
Directely it cant. It has a lot to do with diet, what you eat.
 
Once again its a conspiracy that is going to blamed upon the use of AAS. Test, A-drol and EQ causes blood thickening, take an Aspirin a day keep up your cardio, and lead as least of stress free life as possible..... That is what I do when i get hot , sweaty , and my pupils dilate. Stay calm, push fluids, lay off salt anyway, take Aspirin, sweat as much as you can. Don't add clen or ephedra until your body gets accustomed.

peace

EAT RIGHT
 
High blood pressure is a major cause of strokes. I personally have a home blood pressure kit and monitor my BP very regularly. I only get high BP from aromatising steroids and when I am retaining water.

ECA also gives me problems. The problem here is the ephedra kicks BEFORE the aspirin (the addition to counteract high BP somewhat.) It can actually cause a very sudden and very high, but short-lived rise in BP that can potentially be fatal. My BP once elevated to 210/115 about 20 minutes after taking 2 stack IIs from 128/70 as I had checked my BP just before taking it. The room started spinning and I felt incredibly dizzy. I had to lay down to prevent passing out. Scary stuff!
 
aznurse said:
When I read the post and saw blood clotting disorder, I thought of Polycythemia. Since testosterone can cause an increase of RBCs, and he was using a blend of testosterone, a blockage could have occurred due to the increase of RBCs combined with the clotting disorder.


AHHHHHHHH!!! Great post!! Polycythemia also causes increased WBC and platelets. Those with this condition have an increased tendency to clot and STROKE!! I can't believe I forgot about this disorder!

Karma for you AZRN!!
 
The Heretic said:
LMAO!! Bro, yes it can. We just went over this.
If your cholesterol is perfect, and the rest of your body. You could pump 1500mg of eq and not have a stroke.

There is no point to argue, the guy had a stroke because of his lifestyle and eating habits. Or maybe he was doing too much crack.
 
DMI said:
High blood pressure is a major cause of strokes. I personally have a home blood pressure kit and monitor my BP very regularly. I only get high BP from aromatising steroids and when I am retaining water.

ECA also gives me problems. The problem here is the ephedra kicks BEFORE the aspirin (the addition to counteract high BP somewhat.) It can actually cause a very sudden and very high, but short-lived rise in BP that can potentially be fatal. My BP once elevated to 210/115 about 20 minutes after taking 2 stack IIs from 128/70 as I had checked my BP just before taking it. The room started spinning and I felt incredibly dizzy. I had to lay down to prevent passing out. Scary stuff!


Aspirin isn't going to help you with the effects of Ephedrine. ECA stacks cause your vessels to constrict, whic could lead to ICH. Not a clot.
 
yomama said:
If your cholesterol is perfect, and the rest of your body. You could pump 1500mg of eq and not have a stroke.

There is no point to argue, the guy had a stroke because of his lifestyle and eating habits. Or maybe he was doing too much crack.


You have no clue what you are talking about. So please shut-up before I make you look stupid.
 
Abnormal neuroendocrine conditions with or without using AS can cause CVD. That's well documented, but not fully understood. I'll go back to my original statement that there is no evidence that AS, by itself, causes stroke. You're still extrapolating and I won't accept that as fact, but rather theory, unless it's proven in a clinical study.
Everything you've posted is adding AS to a pre-existing medical condition.
 
IMO the bottom line here is that when on aas one must check his or her blood pressure to help insure there health. Like i stated above my good friend stroked out due to his bp to high. He ate perfect and everyting.

E
 
Ulter said:
Abnormal neuroendocrine conditions with or without using AS can cause CVD. That's well documented, but not fully understood. I'll go back to my original statement that there is no evidence that AS, by itself, causes stroke. You're still extrapolating and I won't accept that as fact, but rather theory, unless it's proven in a clinical study.
Everything you've posted is adding AS to a pre-existing medical condition.


The type of stroke I am refferring to have NOTHING to do with CVD. You can hit someone in the head with a bat and they can have a stroke! Is that because they had high cholesterol? There have been THOUSANDS of studies that PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that AAS causes high BP. There have also been THOUSANDS os studies that show high BP can lead to stroke. What part of that don't you understand? I guess if I go and get drunk and drive and kill someone, I'll just use the defense of, "Hey, the car killed them, I didn't". To think that AAS can't cause high BP and to think that high BP can't cause stroke is ignorant at best and stubborn at worst.
 
concordsize said:
IMO the bottom line here is that when on aas one must check his or her blood pressure to help insure there health. Like i stated above my good friend stroked out due to his bp to high. He ate perfect and everyting.

E

This is what it boils down to. :rainbow: I love your concordsize.
 
There have been THOUSANDS of studies that PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that AAS causes high BP. There have also been THOUSANDS os studies that show high BP can lead to stroke. What part of that don't you understand?

Does everyone who uses AS get a stroke? Does everyone who has high blood pressure get a stroke? What part of pre-existing condition don't you understand?

YOU are making the blatant statements here. AS, by itself, doesn't cause stroke.
The kind of strokes you are talking about ARE IMPOSSIBLE without a pre-existing condition.
 
Ulter said:
Does everyone who uses AS get a stroke? Does everyone who has high blood pressure get a stroke? What part of pre-existing condition don't you understand?

YOU are making the blatant statements here. AS, by itself, doesn't cause stroke.
The kind of strokes you are talking about ARE IMPOSSIBLE without a pre-existing condition.

LMAO!! The pre-exhisting condition is HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE caused by AAS useage!! Why can't you see that?

Again, let me ask you a couple of questions that you seem to not want to answer.

Does AAS cause high BP?

Does high BP sometimes lead to stroke?
 
Ulter said:
Does everyone who uses AS get a stroke? Does everyone who has high blood pressure get a stroke? What part of pre-existing condition don't you understand?

YOU are making the blatant statements here. AS, by itself, doesn't cause stroke.
The kind of strokes you are talking about ARE IMPOSSIBLE without a pre-existing condition.


Does everyone who smokes get cancer? Does everyone who drinks get liver damage?
 
Yes high blood pressure causes hemorrhagic strokes. Leading cause. So what? Stop posting about people to whom this thread does not apply and is off topic.
You are still posting about a form of stroke that would not occur due to AS use without a weak vessel which would have to be present prior to the introduction of AS. High BP for time a person would be using AS would not cause the condition you're describing. And you're saying it would just doesn't do it for me. There is no clinical data to support your argument.

To use your weak analogy. Does anyone get cancer from smoking for 8 weeks?
 
actually high blood pressure can weaken vessels which in return cause a stroke or a rupture in the brain.

Just trying to stir the pot a bit. :)
E
 
The Heretic said:
What causes the weak vessels? fool..

HMMMMMMMMM?!?!?!

I'll answer it for you..fool..


HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE!! fool.
Dude, you're an idiot, you dont know what you're talking about. Get off the weed as you cannot understand logic.
 
Whoa,

I leave a post for one day and this is what happens. I didn't think this kind of an argument would grow out of it. As for the specifics of it, age at time of stroke, diet, type of juice, dosage, etc. I don't know. Next time I see him I'll ask and maybe we can give a more accurate diagnosis. Cheers.
 
Ulter said:
Yes high blood pressure causes hemorrhagic strokes. Leading cause. So what? Stop posting about people to whom this thread does not apply and is off topic.
You are still posting about a form of stroke that would not occur due to AS use without a weak vessel which would have to be present prior to the introduction of AS. High BP for time a person would be using AS would not cause the condition you're describing. And you're saying it would just doesn't do it for me. There is no clinical data to support your argument.

To use your weak analogy. Does anyone get cancer from smoking for 8 weeks?

Yes.

I thought we were having an educational convo. I guess not. If you really thought I think that 1st time AAS users are going to have a stroke your wrong. Is it possible? Sure. I'm talking about, and an educated person would know this, people who use AAS on a regular basis and suffer from high BP. Weakening of the vessels occur and a stroke is possible. Period.
 
yomama said:
Dude, you're an idiot, you dont know what you're talking about. Get off the weed as you cannot understand logic.


In other words, you know you are wrong about your first reply and thus resort to imitating me. Nice.
 
The_Heretic said:
Yes.

I thought we were having an educational convo. I guess not. If you really thought I think that 1st time AAS users are going to have a stroke your wrong. Is it possible? Sure. I'm talking about, and an educated person would know this, people who use AAS on a regular basis and suffer from high BP. Weakening of the vessels occur and a stroke is possible. Period.
People who use AAS on a regular basis and suffer from high BP. What's regular basis? And high blood pressure would have to be long term to cause damage to vessels.
http://www.heartpoint.com/highbloodpage.html
 
I have read your argument over and over but your not qualifying anything you're saying. Yes AS will contribute to stroke if the abuse is long term at high doses. The amount of BP increase in the cycles these guys do doesn't even show up in their physical exams in most cases. The amount of pressure it would take to weaken a health vessel is much higher and takes much longer than the few weeks they are cycling. See: yomama
The way you put your post anyone using AS will have an increase in BP that may result in a stroke. If that were true then an otherwise health vessel would burst simply from someone using dbol for a day. And that's just not going to happen.
 
Ulter said:
I have read your argument over and over but your not qualifying anything you're saying. Yes AS will contribute to stroke if the abuse is long term at high doses. The amount of BP increase in the cycles these guys do doesn't even show up in their physical exams in most cases. The amount of pressure it would take to weaken a health vessel is much higher and takes much longer than the few weeks they are cycling. See: yomama
The way you put your post anyone using AS will have an increase in BP that may result in a stroke. If that were true then an otherwise health vessel would burst simply from someone using dbol for a day. And that's just not going to happen.
Amen! I'd give you karma but I'm all out.
 
Dangerous BP is usually regarded as 140/90. I bet you that almost all users of AAS here, when cycling, have a pressure close to or higher than that. Most people cycle for 8+ weeks. They lift harder and usually more when on thus raising their BP even higher. There are very small vessels in the brain that do burst under higher BP. There are new studies coming out that say if a person's systolic (top number) is between 120-139 they are prehypertensive and at risk. Again, I bet almost everybody here has readings this high when off of cycle. This is weakening their vessels. I was speaking to a cardiologist not even 2 months ago about the new BP levels that are coming out. He said when the new recommendations come out systolic pressure is going to be around 100 and diastolic less than 70.

Long term high BP can cause stroke, kidney damage, blindness etc. How long does BP have to be high before this happens? It could be 1 month, it could be one year. I treated a patient the other day, 22 yr old renal patient. He lost both his kidney's when he was 17. Why? High BP. He's waiting on a kidney transplant so he doesn't have to get hooked up to a machine 3 x's per week 8hrs each day. I have also treated stroke victims, anywhere from 15 to 90 yrs of age that had ICH because of high BP. The 17 yr old I was telling you about was very healthy, into sports etc, not overweight. He was diagnosed with hypertension at 15 yr old. He was non-compliant (he didn't take his BP medicine like he should have) and within two years lost his kidney's and had a stroke. He recovered from the stroke. So you two, who obviously have no medical training can sit there and pat each other on the back all day because you think you know what you are talking about, but , as I wrote in an earlier reply, I've known 3 people that had strokes because of elevated BP caused by AAS. All three died. Period.
 
The Heretic1 said:
Dangerous BP is usually regarded as 140/90. I bet you that almost all users of AAS here, when cycling, have a pressure close to or higher than that. Most people cycle for 8+ weeks. They lift harder and usually more when on thus raising their BP even higher. There are very small vessels in the brain that do burst under higher BP. There are new studies coming out that say if a person's systolic (top number) is between 120-139 they are prehypertensive and at risk. Again, I bet almost everybody here has readings this high when off of cycle. This is weakening their vessels. I was speaking to a cardiologist not even 2 months ago about the new BP levels that are coming out. He said when the new recommendations come out systolic pressure is going to be around 100 and diastolic less than 70.

Long term high BP can cause stroke, kidney damage, blindness etc. How long does BP have to be high before this happens? It could be 1 month, it could be one year. I treated a patient the other day, 22 yr old renal patient. He lost both his kidney's when he was 17. Why? High BP. He's waiting on a kidney transplant so he doesn't have to get hooked up to a machine 3 x's per week 8hrs each day. I have also treated stroke victims, anywhere from 15 to 90 yrs of age that had ICH because of high BP. The 17 yr old I was telling you about was very healthy, into sports etc, not overweight. He was diagnosed with hypertension at 15 yr old. He was non-compliant (he didn't take his BP medicine like he should have) and within two years lost his kidney's and had a stroke. He recovered from the stroke. So you two, who obviously have no medical training can sit there and pat each other on the back all day because you think you know what you are talking about, but , as I wrote in an earlier reply, I've known 3 people that had strokes because of elevated BP caused by AAS. All three died. Period.

Heretic, I am interested in what you are saying and tend to agree with you. Also, I'm curious to know if you cycle or not? Maybe you can respond to me in private messages, I want to know more. Thanks!
 
Yes, I cycle. BP is my biggest concern. I am 31 and have seen what high BP can do to a person. I am a firefighter/Paramedic and also have a BSN. I work as an RN, PRN on my off dyas from the station at a cardiovascular hospital. I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I'm getting fired up because some people here are purposely misleading others about some of the sides of AAS.
 
No one is purposely misleading anyone. Your assertions are still just your extrapolations and theories. No pro builder has ever had a stroke on cycle. In 40 years. If your assertions were accurate then don't you find that a bit odd for a group of thousands that uses 5 to 10 times more AS than you do? I am all for people getting being safe while using AS but your posts are more like chicken little than a knowledgeable AS user. The instances of athletes suffering a stroke have not increased when the athlete uses AS. There is simply no data supporting what you are saying.
 
Ulter, why would NIH do a study to see how many steroid users die of a stroke? Do you think they would subject participants to fatally high blood pressure just to see if they get a stroke?

I usually find your posts very informative...but I have to disagree with you. There is a CLEAR link between many AAS and high blood pressure. Do you dispute this? High blood pressure OBVIOUSLY leads to stroke in many people. Do you dispute this? So the link is there. You just aren't gonna find a study that purposely checks how many of its participants are willing to die of stroke from AAS, LOL.
 
Hey i know for a fact that a lot of bodybilders are using Alybyl-E or a pain killer with same compond.To prevent stroke under and after cycel becuse of the blod % is so haigh.I havent been using anything my self,but i think if you chek your blod and its over the limit.You shoud consider using it.I tink it is Equipose that brings it haigest up....
 
Read this: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...am/cam1.pdf+pro+bodybuilder+dies+stroke&hl=en


It states that there have been instances of ATHLETES dying from stroke do to AAS usage causing high BP. It's like you can't add together 2+2 Ulter. AAS causes high BP and high BP can lead to stroke. I can eat McDonalds everyday and because of the fat, salt etc my BP will rise. I may one day have a stroke. What caused my stroke? DIET! Just as if I use AAS and develop high BP, don't take the right precautions, I may stroke. WHat caused the stroke? I know you're going to say high BP in this instance to further your argument, but what caused the high BP?
 
You're taking statistic from the general, obese, population and trying to apply it to athletes. It doesn't fly. The stats he quoted are for people who are by in large are out of shape and mostly obese.

No the NIH would not do a study on steroid users but certainly others would, and have.

This site has been here for 10 years. In that time there have been over 100,000 people posting here. Not one in all that time reported a stroke due to to AS or any other reason. Don't you think that's a little strange if your link of AS= HBP HBP=Stroke was proven science? Maybe a study would show that the vessels in an athlete grow stronger due to volume passing through it. Who knows? Until there is clinical research linking athletes using AS to stroke, and in absence of any data, anecdotal or otherwise, you just can’t make that jump. Well I can’t.

Of course it's possible that just about anything COULD happen. But to just make the general statement that AS causes stroke is not truthful.
 
Now you're being ridiculous. You can make the argument that there are no reported deaths on this site from prostate cancer, yet steroids pose a serious risk of prostate enlargement in some individuals.

Look, its lunacy to suggest that its IMPOSSIBLE for AAS to cause stroke. Because, clearly, AAS can cause high blood pressure and high blood pressure can cause strokes.

And who cares about stats...when someone dies, very rarely are they checked for any types of exogenous androgens... So its stupid to suggest that because there aren't deaths ruled to be caused by steroids, that there is no link between strokes and AAS. They don't check for that shit when someone dies, man. They just report the cause of death as a heart attack or stroke and thats it. Obviously, the cause of death can be hastened by improper AAS use.
 
I just posted a link where they have cases of ATHLETES having strokes because of AAS usage.

Also, your "no one posting here has had a stroke" is stupid. Maybe some have stroked and can't see, type, read anymore or are dead.
 
The Heretic1 said:
Read this: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...am/cam1.pdf+pro+bodybuilder+dies+stroke&hl=en


It states that there have been instances of ATHLETES dying from stroke do to AAS usage causing high BP. It's like you can't add together 2+2 Ulter. AAS causes high BP and high BP can lead to stroke. I can eat McDonalds everyday and because of the fat, salt etc my BP will rise. I may one day have a stroke. What caused my stroke? DIET! Just as if I use AAS and develop high BP, don't take the right precautions, I may stroke. WHat caused the stroke? I know you're going to say high BP in this instance to further your argument, but what caused the high BP?

It also says someone got AIDS from steroid use. It doesn't give a reference for either however. If 5000 pro body builders had 3 instances of stroke then they are under the national average aren't they? So his sampling is less than the general population. If his sampling is even true.

The people you're talking about have a history of HBP. The average steroid user has HBP for two 8 week periods a year. Again, you can't apply general population models to the athletes using AS.
 
poantrex said:
Now you're being ridiculous. You can make the argument that there are no reported deaths on this site from prostate cancer, yet steroids pose a serious risk of prostate enlargement in some individuals.

Look, its lunacy to suggest that its IMPOSSIBLE for AAS to cause stroke. Because, clearly, AAS can cause high blood pressure and high blood pressure can cause strokes.

And who cares about stats...when someone dies, very rarely are they checked for any types of exogenous androgens... So its stupid to suggest that because there aren't deaths ruled to be caused by steroids, that there is no link between strokes and AAS. They don't check for that shit when someone dies, man. They just report the cause of death as a heart attack or stroke and thats it. Obviously, the cause of death can be hastened by improper AAS use.

Well guess what you're wrong again. 2/3 of the studies done on AS use and prostate cancer showed no relation. All but 1 of the remaining 1/3 showed inconclusive results. So I wouldn't expect anyone to report AS induced prostate cancer. This is well documented at Life Extension Group.

You probably didn't read my post. I said ANYTHING is possible.
 
Also, your "no one posting here has had a stroke" is stupid. Maybe some have stroked and can't see, type, read anymore or are dead.
Everyone here knows someone who uses steroids. In over one million posts no one has ever reported what you're saying has happened. That's pretty significant. Whether you recognize it or not.
 
I've been banned twice. Once because I told an admin, after he talked about a shitty sex session he had, that maybe it was him and not the chic and once over this thread.
 
Ulter said:
Well guess what you're wrong again. 2/3 of the studies done on AS use and prostate cancer showed no relation. All but 1 of the remaining 1/3 showed inconclusive results. So I wouldn't expect anyone to report AS induced prostate cancer. This is well documented at Life Extension Group.

You probably didn't read my post. I said ANYTHING is possible.

Wow. Just. Wow. I can't believe the extent to which you deny the link between steroids and health problems....now I am surely guilty of abusing steroids in my time, but I don't ever think for a second that it has enhanced my health one bit. As far your statistic, I'm not going to say that you pulled that out of think air...but...there is a well established link between prostate cancer and high levels of dihydrotestosterone. I'm sure you can find a flawed study somewhere that doesn't show much of a correlation, but you can find other moronic studies elsewhere too - such as studies showing that ephedrine doesn't increase blood pressure, cigarettes not causing signifigant health problems, etc. Besides, do you really need a study to tell you something that should be obvious? To me, its obvious that steroids increase blood pressure. I know dbol/anadrol does a fucking number on me, and high BP does not run in my family. Some people running that for long periods of time, that will surely not be good for their cardiovascular health.

I actually know a guy - outwardly he looks to be in excellent health with little bodyfat.....but several years ago he ran anadrol 50 every day for about a year, with no break. His total cholesterol levels are usually over 400 (YEARS after stopping aas), and he has had a heart attack already. At age 35. Now i'm sure AAS had nothing to do with it, since cardiovascular problems do not run in his family at all.
 
Last edited:
The Heretic1 said:
Dangerous BP is usually regarded as 140/90. I bet you that almost all users of AAS here, when cycling, have a pressure close to or higher than that. Most people cycle for 8+ weeks. .
Hey asshole, I cycle for longer than that and my BP is perfect. If I use dbol, then my blood pressure will get higher, but besides that. High BP depends on what kind of gear you use. So shut the fuck up, try using steroids first and then tell me about BP. :doublefi:
 
yomama said:
Hey asshole, I cycle for longer than that and my BP is perfect. If I use dbol, then my blood pressure will get higher, but besides that. High BP depends on what kind of gear you use. So shut the fuck up, try using steroids first and then tell me about BP. :doublefi:

:rolleyes: You're way too young and immature to use steroids. Grow up.
 
yomama said:
Hey asshole, I cycle for longer than that and my BP is perfect. If I use dbol, then my blood pressure will get higher, but besides that. High BP depends on what kind of gear you use. So shut the fuck up, try using steroids first and then tell me about BP. :doublefi:


Well, first of all you little turd, I've probably been working out for longer than you've been alive. Second of all, your post is so retarded I don't know where to begin. You're assuming that because you haven't had a stroke and don't suffer from HBP (which most users do) that my statements are false. I'll tell you what scrotum-pump, my Dad has been smoking for 40yrs. Doesn't have cancer, never has had cancer, and I guess since my dad doesn't have cancer and he smokes, and according to your scientific studies, smoking does not cause cancer. Dolt.
 
poantrex said:
.now I am surely guilty of abusing steroids in my time, but I don't ever think for a second that it has enhanced my health one bit. .
Really?! :rolleyes: Then dont take it, nobody's making you.
 
The Heretic1 said:
Well, first of all you little turd, I've probably been working out for longer than you've been alive. Second of all, your post is so retarded I don't know where to begin. You're assuming that because you haven't had a stroke and don't suffer from HBP (which most users do) that my statements are false. I'll tell you what scrotum-pump, my Dad has been smoking for 40yrs. Doesn't have cancer, never has had cancer, and I guess since my dad doesn't have cancer and he smokes, and according to your scientific studies, smoking does not cause cancer. Dolt.
I dont give a shit how long you've been working out. Post some pictures so I can laugh at what you have accomplished. I know a lot of people who work out for years and dont accomplish anything.

Not everyone that smokes gets cancer, it depends on how much they smoke, their genetics, lifestyle etc. Give him few more years and he'll drop like a fly.

What I'm saying is that not all steroids cause high blood pressure. Get that thru your head. It also depends on your lifestyle and eating habits. People juice for years and dont have problems. Start taking care of yourself better and dont give me bullshit about steroids giving a stroke.
 
yomama said:
I dont give a shit how long you've been working out. Post some pictures so I can laugh at what you have accomplished. I know a lot of people who work out for years and dont accomplish anything.

Not everyone that smokes gets cancer, it depends on how much they smoke, their genetics, lifestyle etc. Give him few more years and he'll drop like a fly.


LMAO!! You are 7.
 
The Heretic1 said:
LMAO!! You are 7.

Damn man, I don't know what this guys problem is. (yomama). We were having a civil discussion and he comes in here and shits all over it. Heh, now would be a good time to test that new platinum feature, eh...
 
poantrex said:
Damn man, I don't know what this guys problem is. (yomama). We were having a civil discussion and he comes in here and shits all over it. Heh, now would be a good time to test that new platinum feature, eh...

LOL...If you've got it I can't see any better way to use it.
 
You two are too dumb to get anything through your heads. No point of trying to explain anything to you because it goes in one ear and out your ass.
 
yomama said:
You two are too dumb to get anything through your heads. No point of trying to explain anything to you because it goes in one ear and out your ass.


:rolleyes:

Where's your pics big man? Imma post mine up in a second. I gotta scan some.
 
The Heretic1 said:
Dangerous BP is usually regarded as 140/90. There are new studies coming out that say if a person's systolic (top number) is between 120-139 they are prehypertensive and at risk. I was speaking to a cardiologist not even 2 months ago about the new BP levels that are coming out. He said when the new recommendations come out systolic pressure is going to be around 100 and diastolic less than 70.
.


with all due respect, the new lower numbers for blood pressure, cholesterol, ideal weight, etc etc etc are largely just the medical industry medicalizing normalcy to create a larger patient base.


with the stroke of a pen, the altered guidelines create millions of new statin drug dependent patients, or millions new BP med patients etc. for big pharma, doctors, hospitals, labs, etc to feed off of.

just my two cents.

-
 
Top Bottom