A Little Reminder About Cycles

[Nelson Montana]

This has been said before but it bears repeating.

Just about every day someone wants an opinion on a cycle. Or they'll ask "Should I add some prop to this?" Or, "Should I make it 300 mgs or 350mgs? Or, "Winnie and dball or Var and Proviron." Or, "10 weeks or 14 weeks?"

You get the idea.

And very often they'll get responses such as "Nice cycle" or "I'd make it 200 mgs of prop, drop the Var and add 600 mgs of whatever.

At the end of the day...it's all bullshit.

All of these drugs grow muscle. How much you actually grow depends mostly on training and genetics and the drugs will simply make things go better.

As for "cutters" and "bulkers" ...that's diet. Eat less -- you cut. Eat more -- you bulk.

I don't want to put a crimp in the fun we all have here discussing this and that, but there comes a time to get real. The actual combinations are not that scientific. Find one or two compounds that work well for you, and pick a dosage. Then get off the boards and into the gym and bust your ass and you won't have to ask so many questions. You'll see for yourself.

 

[flotown]

I agree with almost all you said. But I do believe which drug is important. Maybe less in bodybuilding(this is not my area) but for powerlifting. If I were to run nothing but test I would be crap. But I put some a-50, trenbolone, or Halotestin - fluoxymesterone - in there and I am going to ripping it up. I think it is very dependent on what your goals are. For that matter what about cutting. Most guys would say it is smart to compounds with less water retention. If someone has questions they shouldn't be afraid to ask. A lot of it is bs, adding 100mgs here isn't going to make the difference. But which compound can have a great effect on reaching your goal. Yes they all build muscle but our goals are more specific sometimes.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I agree with almost all you said. But I do believe which drug is important. Maybe less in bodybuilding(this is not my area) but for powerlifting. If I were to run nothing but test I would be crap. But I put some a-50, trenbolone, or Halotestin - fluoxymesterone - in there and I am going to ripping it up. I think it is very dependent on what your goals are. For that matter what about cutting. Most guys would say it is smart to compounds with less water retention. If someone has questions they shouldn't be afraid to ask. A lot of it is bs, adding 100mgs here isn't going to make the difference. But which compound can have a great effect on reaching your goal. Yes they all build muscle but our goals are more specific sometimes.

What you're talking about is basic knowledge of what the drugs do. Hell, any book on gear will provide that information. The it's a metter of a little experimentation. And of course, everyone has their favorites so asking an opinion over one compound or the other is kinda poinless since you'll get 10 different opinions. My issue is with the nit-picking of minutea and the responses. The best cycle is the one you make the most of -- not the combination of drugs.

 

[OMEGA]

I disagree with this:

"As for "cutters" and "bulkers" ...that's diet. Eat less -- you cut. Eat more -- you bulk."

if your endomorphic and using gear that aromatizes it will be a hell of alot harder to get cut then if you use gear that is non, or low in aromatization.


just saying..........

 

[ricorico]

i recommend dosages and diff drugs with the assumtion that diet and training are already in check. Obviously those ARE the more deciding factors on how u will look at the end of your cycle. But if your on the ball wiht those, then tweaking your cycle is what will make that lil difference

 

[OMEGA]

Find one or two compounds that work well for you, and pick a dosage.

I agree with this

 

[holy ghost]

i agree people take cycles too seriously sometimes

me i always add too many compounds.

 

[flotown]

What you're talking about is basic knowledge of what the drugs do. Hell, any book on gear will provide that information. The it's a metter of a little experimentation. And of course, everyone has their favorites so asking an opinion over one compound or the other is kinda poinless since you'll get 10 different opinions. My issue is with the nit-picking of minutea and the responses. The best cycle is the one you make the most of -- not the combination of drugs.

I agree. But I a lot of guys come here without even a basic idea of gear. It is true that through a little research and experimentation can take care a lot of the stupid things that go on on this board that could be avoided. Yes the harder you work the better the cycle will be. I stand by my statement that a compound could make or break a specific goal, assuming everything else is in check. But this board is about asking hor help and sharing our experiences so all of us will have a better place to base from.

 

[Sanel27]

Whoa, straight to the point. I like it and agree with most of the argument N.Montana makes, but I also do agree with Omega and that squirel...

But what nelson is saying is really the honest brutal truth. Do some research, get you head on straight then head to the gym.

 

[flotown]

the honest brutal truth. Do some research, get you head on straight then head to the gym.

Amen brother. Who can argue that.

 

[ukkared]

Whoa, straight to the point. I like it and agree with most of the argument N.Montana makes, but I also do agree with Omega and that squirel...

But what nelson is saying is really the honest brutal truth. Do some research, get you head on straight then head to the gym.

All true, but it never hurts to see if someone else would run different compounds or change the duration of the cycle.

 

[Nelson Montana]

All true, but it never hurts to see if someone else would run different compounds or change the duration of the cycle.

Yes, but does my ass look fat in this dress?

 

[holy ghost]

ask omega hed be honored to oblige olol

 

[gyle]

I find the best way to tweak MY cycle is to go by MY OWN experiences. I have friends that do better, handle better, or certain compounds work differently, sometimes way differently, for them than me even if we have the same goals. Everybody's life n' physical makeup are different, and sometimes you have to take everything into account like: job duties, physical stats, how much stress 1 can handle ( PHYS.&MENT. ), determination level, time alloted for workouts, how quick one recovers from X, sleep time, ETC... It's the same with P.C.T.-Different strokes for different folks! All these things are factors, so for me I go by how I feel, what I know about myself, and by my progress, or lack of.

 

[needtogetaas]

Yes, but does my ass look fat in this dress?

fucking shit lol

 

[samoth]

Nelson's spot on. People constantly try to obfuscate a relatively simple thing nowadays.

I'd say the bulk of it is to blame on thousands of tiny labs trying to market everything under the sun and people on discussion boards arguing nuances that are essentially meaningless to all but the top tier of competitive athletes.

The more [seemingly] complicated this kind of thing is, the more the "vets" appear smart and wise beyond their years, and the more people can be manipulated by those who stand to make money in the scene. Such self-propagating complexity simply seperates further the top of the scene's population from the bottom, not unlike adding more and more water to a small amount of oil.

People wonder why the turnover rate for anabolic boards are so high, or why all the "vets" are gone. Well, duh. The subjects generally discussed on these boards aren't exactly rocket science, folks. You don't need a triple-digit IQ to talk about this stuff -- or to make it in your kitchen, for that matter. You might think you're coolly didactic when posting a dissertation-length response about the differences between running testosterone enanthate versus testosterone cypionate, but it's really only the blind teaching the blind. Okay?

Notwithstanding, this should be an interesting thread with illuminating responses from numerous parties.

 

[needtogetaas]

this thread is pointless for one reason...the cycle thread have bin here since ef started and they will always be here.never going to get rid of them...people love them for a number of reasons
1.people just want to talk about there cycles
2.people want to know about deferent types of aas
3.people want to know what they should take for there problems well on and off cycle
4.pct people want to know whats best for them
5.newbs dont even no the basics so they want reassurance they are doing the right thing
6.yes its fun for most people
so lets just role with it.

 

[layinback]

it is all analogs of testosterone. two effective routes of administration oral and I.M. injection. thats it! steroid cycles do not make for good shop talk in the real world so i think this is a catharsis for some of us

 

[CremasterBlaster]

Here's the best analogy I can come up with.....and I think I may have to side with Nelson and Samoth on this one......

I played poker (semi-professionally for a little bit)......nothing much, but it keeps me occupied and I am reasonably good enough to earn some extra on the side.....

True poker "pros" have heard, seen and been involved with every type of "bad beat" thats out there.....losing quad aces to a royal, geting rivered by every cold caller at the table.....but the first thing that newbies in poker want to share when they corner a seasoned vet is "you shoulda seen it, all in with the nut flush....and this jackass goes all in and catches runner-runner quads and takes me for my whole bankroll"..........the pro usually rolls his eyes and mentally screams inside "not another bad-beat story"......you see, no one cares....you play your own cards the way they were dealt, and if you don't have the balls to move your chips when you have to, the only one that loses or wins is you......thats why I lift, because its not a team sport, its not a touchy-feely gather round the huddle slap ass activity.
If I succeed and grow and become stronger, I have myself to thank....if not I can only blame myself..

 

[5x10]

This has been said before but it bears repeating.

Just about every day someone wants an opinion on a cycle. Or they'll ask "Should I add some testosterone propionate to this?" Or, "Should I make it 300 mgs or 350mgs? Or, "Winnie and dball or Anavar - oxandrolone - and Proviron." Or, "10 weeks or 14 weeks?"

You get the idea.

And very often they'll get responses such as "Nice cycle" or "I'd make it 200 mgs of testosterone propionate, drop the Var and add 600 mgs of whatever.

At the end of the day...it's all bullshit.

All of these drugs grow muscle. How much you actually grow depends mostly on training and genetics and the drugs will simply make things go better.

As for "cutters" and "bulkers" ...that's diet. Eat less -- you cut. Eat more -- you bulk.

I don't want to put a crimp in the fun we all have here discussing this and that, but there comes a time to get real. The actual combinations are not that scientific. Find one or two compounds that work well for you, and pick a dosage. Then get off the boards and into the gym and bust your ass and you won't have to ask so many questions. You'll see for yourself.

you speak the truth
people make it more complicated than it is

 

[needtogetaas]

Nelson's spot on. People constantly try to obfuscate a relatively simple thing nowadays.

I'd say the bulk of it is to blame on thousands of tiny labs trying to market everything under the sun and people on discussion boards arguing nuances that are essentially meaningless to all but the top tier of competitive athletes.

The more [seemingly] complicated this kind of thing is, the more the "vets" appear smart and wise beyond their years, and the more people can be manipulated by those who stand to make money in the scene. Such self-propagating complexity simply seperates further the top of the scene's population from the bottom, not unlike adding more and more water to a small amount of oil.

People wonder why the turnover rate for anabolic boards are so high, or why all the "vets" are gone. Well, duh. The subjects generally discussed on these boards aren't exactly rocket science, folks. You don't need a triple-digit IQ to talk about this stuff -- or to make it in your kitchen, for that matter. You might think you're coolly didactic when posting a dissertation-length response about the differences between running testosterone enanthate versus testosterone cypionate, but it's really only the blind teaching the blind. Okay?

Notwithstanding, this should be an interesting thread with illuminating responses from numerous parties.

 

[mattdan]

Great post. Throw in a test is test statement and I'm your new bitch.

Yes, I know there are *some* differences between tests. But they are minor and way too friggin much is made of it. I see so much analysis paralysis about which test is best it's rediculous.

You can only cut with prop, but if you bulk it has to be enantate. Huh?

Great job as usual Nelson.

 

[ShowKidd]

This has been said before but it bears repeating.

Just about every day someone wants an opinion on a cycle. Or they'll ask "Should I add some testosterone propionate to this?" Or, "Should I make it 300 mgs or 350mgs? Or, "Winnie and dball or Anavar - oxandrolone - and Proviron." Or, "10 weeks or 14 weeks?"

You get the idea.

And very often they'll get responses such as "Nice cycle" or "I'd make it 200 mgs of testosterone propionate, drop the Var and add 600 mgs of whatever.

At the end of the day...it's all bullshit.

All of these drugs grow muscle. How much you actually grow depends mostly on training and genetics and the drugs will simply make things go better.

As for "cutters" and "bulkers" ...that's diet. Eat less -- you cut. Eat more -- you bulk.

I don't want to put a crimp in the fun we all have here discussing this and that, but there comes a time to get real. The actual combinations are not that scientific. Find one or two compounds that work well for you, and pick a dosage. Then get off the boards and into the gym and bust your ass and you won't have to ask so many questions. You'll see for yourself.

very true Nelson, and i do believe that you do not need as much as people claim, i think that for most of us that anything over 1gm per week is too much for most compounds, there is a point of diminishing returns that i agree with you in your book. there is a lot of people that have gotten up to 260lbs and single digit BF% on 500 per week and genetics had nothing to do with it.after all it doesnt matter if you run 3oo ew or 3 gm's a week if your body doesn't have enough receptors to utilize it. i myself DO NOT have good genetics but have put on a goos amount of muscle from when i started 21 months ago (about 44 lbs, went from 185 at 17%BF to 220 at 10.3%BF) and i have done 2 cycles at 500 ew(except for a couple shots of deca). i believe that for all the guys that are skinny and are not growing they run higher and higher doses trying to make up for the fact that they are not eating enough to grow as an ectomorph, never mind having the juice speed up metabolism from training hard resulting to little or no gains, anyway that is just my opinion so each his own, take it with a grain of salt

 

[rage_roid]

I agree in some with nelson, but not at all... theres much difference btw getting 1.5 g. of testo, and getting 750 mg. test, 400 mg. deca, and 100 mg. eod of tren, sides with 1.5 gr. of test can be pretty fucking nasty, not saying that youre aint gonna get any sides with the stack... but for sure much less that from the 1.5 test only cycle... and the combination of three differente components can get you if not the same bulk as 1.5 test, pretty much equal, and give you some more harndess... I find the discussion cyp test vs. e test really stupid, but when we are talking about a hole cylcle... there are certain tipes of stack that helps to get good gains and keep the test sides as lowest as POSSIBLE...

 

[gslben]

I agree for the most part but a 20yo that comes one here sees you're post count and thinks "Well my research stops here, that's the be-all end-all".....?

Has a buddy that's running anavar and comes up with some similar looking pills himself and they're anadrol then he's in for a surprise.

Kid would be a dope I know but the world is littered with em.

I agree though...100 reply posts about whether or not to add a compound in week 8 or week 9 is pretty retarded.

 

[perryscoon]

Right, all the winny, clen, tren, masteron, eq, and T3 in the world won't do shit if you're still slammin pizza and french fries.