5x5 progam. Need help with overtraining issues

[Aclaim]

Hi

I have been a silent reader at the board for a while and now I need some pointers real bad. I don’t find any introduction thread so I hope that I don’t do anything wrong by making this my first post.

To introduce my self first.

I’m from Sweden
30 years old
220/5'10''.

I put on weight easy and I diet down and weigh 183 pounds in september 2008 and am now at 220. To bad that it is a lot of fat but that’s the facts.


Have been working out since I was 16 or to be honest, I have been in a gym since I was 16. Trying to blend in and not be notist.

Played Ice hockey and I was a goalie so I was lacy and didn't want to work out. I regret this now.

I have had strong legs but my upper body were newer strong due to that.



The thing is that when becoming older I have read a lot and I found a great interest in working out and get bigger.

So now for almost 3 years I have tried to read and try different thing to start building my body.


I workout at home in a home gym that has everything that I need. Power rack, bench and barbell with 440 pounds of weights and some dumbbells with 220 pounds total.

Not the best way I know but to have time to work and be home with my family this is the best thing right now.

I have tried DC training and like it but as Dante says to almost everyone, I don't have enough experience for that program.

I now use Bill Starr 5x5 linear program. I really like the aggressive progression in both programs, which has been my biggest mistake in my younger years, not to use higher weights.

I have played football for some years, and with that I mean NFL football not soccer. So I thing that the 5x5 program can help me to get stronger for football too.


To my problem:

Because of my lack of experience in hard heavy training I have been overtraining my self real bad. First I'm not used this situation due to that I have never worked you hard enough earlier. So I can't see and feel the symptoms in time.

I work out naturally (no AAS) have done 6 weeks cycles and then have one week with full rest to recover. I can't go longer before I see the easy symptoms like muscle pain.

I really think that this is too short of time to get to that state. What to you think?

So I had to rest for 2 weeks before starting a new cycle but I had to stop that one after 2 week of light training.

And now I have been resting 2,5 weeks and I still don't feel ready to workout.


My top lifting score is:

Bench 5x220
Squat 5x340
Deads 5x353

So you see that I don’t use that mush weight either.



I have 2 small kids (6 months and 2,5 years. 2 girls) and a pretty stressful job. So my cortisol levels are high I guess.

I don't sleep enough that I know between 6-7½ hours for the most part and then I often have to get up to get my kids at night. I’m trying to change this to that I get at least 8 hours.

I think that I eat pretty okay. I eat high protein between 250-400g/dag and I don't count the rest right now.

I have probably missed some important information but I hope that you can help me to fill that in.

 

[sweed]

hej!
you think muscle soreness is overtraining? it is not. you are doing 9 sets per muscle group per week right now?? muscle soreness is good!

post up you typical training week. what's you diet like??

I did the 5x5 for a little while and enjoyed it!

 

[Aclaim]

Tja

Here is my workout:

Mon:

Bench 5x5 working up to one heavy set.
Squat 5x5 working up to one heavy set.
Row 5x5 working up to one heavy set.

2x10 goodmornings
4x30 weighted situps.

Wed:

Incline bench 4x5 working up to one heavy set.
Light squat 4x5 working up to one heavy set. The heavy set is at 80% of mondays heavy.
Deadlifts 4x5 working up to one heavy set.

3x 30 abs

Fri:

Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8

the first 4 sets is at the same weight as the first 4 on mon. 1x3 is 2,5% higher than mon last set and this will be next mondays heavy weight. 1x8 is the same weight that the 3rd set.

3x10 tris and 3x10 bis
(3X8 dips) Don't have anywhere to do this yet so I don't do it right now.

So as you see I do chest and legs 3 times/ week and it will be 15 sets/week.
Back will be the same but deads is more for the lower back then row i guess.

The problem is that I don't have muscle sorness I really got muscle pain and it is so bad some times that I get nomb in my hands while driving at work.

I can also see my strenght decrease so I guess that it has to be some signs that it's time to rest.

But if you can bring me som light over this I will be very happy.

 

[sweed]

I used to do a different variation.
chest - incline bench 5x5
flat DB presses 2x10-12
incline flies - 2x 10-12

then do each other body part once a week. This gave me increased strength and also worked my volume to do more reps for growth.

Oh so you have more soreness/ pain issues... there are some that have issues with this that I am not familiar with, so I am not sure what can be done about it!! maybe someone else can help you on this??!!!

 

[wrenchmonk]

You're doing the right thing taking some time off. You'll know the difference between injury sore and DOMS. Also, get more sleep it's probably the only stressor in your life that you CAN control.

Taking a week or two off to deload is good thing. Just don't go back to where you left off after that deload week (or two). If you were squatting 340x5, then after taking a week off don't go straight back to it. Start back up at 320x5 or maybe 325x5. Think 3-4 steps forward and 1 step back. Also, during that week off, when you deload, make sure you are still doing some form of lifting but nothing greater than 60%. Example your final 5x5 set for squats shouldn't be more than 205 x 5 during deload week. You have a choice between pre-hab (planned time off) or re-hab (unplanned time off).

My injury experience.
I had a great run with 5x5 intermediate program for about 14 weeks. I increased every lift on schedule for 12 weeks straight. Around week 11 I felt some over use injuries occurring in my forearms and lower back, which I promptly dismissed. Week 12 I hit a plateau on overhead press. Week 13 I hit a plateau on bench. I should have stopped, deloaded, recalculated my maxes and restarted the program or switch to a different program at this point. Week 14, I strained ligaments in my back from rounding my lower back on squats, which put me in bed for a few days. It hurt to laugh and sneezing would cause enough pain to make me black out. Lost a few days of work. I was lucky and didn't injure my spine, just the ligaments. I should have paid attention to my body around week 11, I didn't, it cost me a month of heavy lifting and set me back about four months regarding progress on deadlifts and squats.

My mistakes? I didn't listen to my body 3 weeks prior to the injury. I had ridiculously short warm up sessions and didn't stretch. I also didn't know what a foam roller was. By the bye, get a foam roller and use it prior to your sessions or during the session if you still feel tight or sore. I thought they were just a gimmick to sell unwanted foam but they actually work wonders for injury prevention and recovery.

 

[SaiBoT]

Tja

Here is my workout:

Mon:

Bench 5x5 working up to one heavy set.
Squat 5x5 working up to one heavy set.
Row 5x5 working up to one heavy set.

2x10 goodmornings don't do these
4x30 weighted situps. --- do only 3x12

Wed:

Incline bench 4x5 working up to one heavy set.
Light squat 4x5 working up to one heavy set. The heavy set is at 80% of mondays heavy. work up to 2 sets with the less than 70% of mondays heaviest, these are meant for recovery and form improvemnt not to overkill.
Deadlifts 4x5 working up to one heavy set.

3x 30 abs ----3x12

Fri:

Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 do 3x5 1x3 (with the same weight you would use for the 4th set of 5) 1x3 1x8
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 same as above
Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 same here

the first 4 sets is at the same weight as the first 4 on mon. 1x3 is 2,5% higher than mon last set and this will be next mondays heavy weight. 1x8 is the same weight that the 3rd set.

3x10 tris and 3x10 bis
(3X8 dips) Don't have anywhere to do this yet so I don't do it right now.

So as you see I do chest and legs 3 times/ week and it will be 15 sets/week.
Back will be the same but deads is more for the lower back then row i guess.

The problem is that I don't have muscle sorness I really got muscle pain and it is so bad some times that I get nomb in my hands while driving at work.

I can also see my strenght decrease so I guess that it has to be some signs that it's time to rest.

But if you can bring me som light over this I will be very happy.

Made some small changes that cut a bit on the overall volume, you shouldn't need anthing else, eat, rest and recover.

 

[future]

hej!
you think muscle soreness is overtraining? it is not. you are doing 9 sets per muscle group per week right now?? muscle soreness is good!

post up you typical training week. what's you diet like??

I did the 5x5 for a little while and enjoyed it!

Actually muscle soreness is not a predictor of success. It CAN be good but chronic can be cause from diet deficiencies AND EVEN overtraining.

A progressional system like a 5x5 will most likely just be soreness from increased intensity BUT never discount that overtraining can be hand in hand with the micro-trauma inflected.

 

[future]

Made some small changes that cut a bit on the overall volume, you shouldn't need anthing else, eat, rest and recover.

Good adjustments. I suggest giving that a try. Seems sensible.

And yes, taking time off is a smart thing to do.

 

[SaiBoT]

Good adjustments. I suggest giving that a try. Seems sensible.

And yes, taking time off is a smart thing to do.

Thanks bro

 

[Aclaim]

Thanks for all your help boys (and girls?)

I will try to do as you sad SaiBoT. Have been thinking about taking some weight off on lightday legs so I will do that.

I also noticed that I miss to wright that the last two sets on lightday is at the same weight as you mentioned.

I have been resting a long time now and I hope to be back soon because I can't wait to hit the weights.

Just have to get well from a cold.

So soon it time to start over and see how much I have lost

If there is aneone else that has more info that can help me please post more in this thread.