3 Months Bulking - Feedback Requested

[dabuffguy]

Sorry I took so long to get back... lately I've been really concerned with my gains. Visually, there's still no difference, other than fat gain. To be honest, I haven't made an attempt at low calorie days like I should... I find it hard enough getting to 3000 calories even when including some chocolate bars, and with up to 60% of calories from carbs. Perhaps this is the cause of my problem lately...

Since last week, I hadn't gained any weight except 0.1kg lol... most days it was 3500 calories, but admittingly I had half of the week where I went as low as 2400 calories. Still I would think more than 0.1 kg.. it might just be the timing of when I took my weight measurement.

Anyway, here's my workout results so far (note, I had 1 week off, as I have 1 week off after every 8 weeks):

Squats: 70kg x 14, 8, 10, 15
Lunges: skipped it
Stiff Legged Deadlifts: skipped it (I hurt my back doing it.. can't figure out the proper form... I know its as simple as looking it up but I cannot figure it out, even still.)
Calf Raises, Crunches, Leg Raises etc. all standard not really progress on these.

Took 50 mins to complete that workout... I think I'll probably be skipping stiff legged deadlifts until I can figure out proper form. Besides, squats completely wipe me out every damn time.

... and then the following week


Squats: 70kg x 15, 15, 12, 12
Lunges: skipped
Deadlifts: skipped
Calf Raises, Crunches, Leg Raises etc. all standard not really progress on these.

Took 42 minutes this time. I admit I was shotty with the form in squats, I avoided going low most reps because I was scared (literally) of injuring myself... my breathe is taken from me after the first set of 15 reps!!


... since I have chest workout today, and back on saturday, I can only post the previous weeks workouts:

Deadlifts: 85kg x 5, 5, 5, 5, 7
BB Rows: 20kg x 14, 12, 12, 14
DB Rows: 10kg x 15, 15, 15
Shrugs: 62.5kg x 14, 12, 12
BB Curls: 20kg x 17, 12, 9
DB Curls: 20kg x 26
Wrist Curls: 27.5kg x 13

1 week off... then next workout:

Deadlifts: 90kg x 5, 5, 5, 5, 7
BB Rows: 20kg x 14, 14, 14, 12
DB Rows: 10kg x 17, 15, 15
Shrugs: 62.5kg x 15, 15, 10
BB Curls: 22.5kg x 16, 9, 10
DB Curls: 20kg x 28
Wrist Curls: 27.5kg x 14


And for chest workout:

Flat BB Press: 40kg x 14, 12, 10, 13
Incline DB Press: 17.5kg (per dumbbell) x 12, 13, 12, 8
Dips: 77kg x 9, 6, 5
Overhead DB Press: 10kg x 15, 15, 13, 13
DB Side Laterals: skipped
DB Skull Crushers: 10kg x 16, 11, 10
Overhead DB Extensions: skipped

...then 1 week off and next workout:

Flat BB Press: 40kg x 15, 13, 11, 11
Incline DB Press: 17.5kg (per dumbbell) x 13, 10, 8, 7
Dips: 78kg x 7, 6, 5
Overhead DB Press: 10kg x 15, 12, 12, 13
DB Side Laterals: skipped
DB Skull Crushers: 10kg x 16, 10, 10
Overhead DB Extensions: 7.5kg x 10, 10





............. as you can see, I'm not doing so great. I feel like I'm making small improvements on the first exercises. I don't really care much for the others, I just feel like I'm doing them for the sake of it... perhaps I'm better off with a workout revolving around purely the big compound movements? ...then I have shorter workouts?

I am 78kg now. Considering I was, like, 68kg about 4 months ago, gaining 10kg of fat and no muscle to show for it is REALLY making me want to start cutting... I just feel dissapointed overall in my results. I'm not sure if this is how slow it is for others, but in 4 months time I'd have liked to have had something to show, instead of an incredible amount of fat gain... I'm just getting depressed and I'm not sure how good it is for my workouts because of it. I think my limit would be 90kg, since it would take me 6 months to cut down... it will already take me about 4 months to cut down again from this weight... yikes!!

Yes, eating chocolate bars doesn't do crap for you. Dipping to 2400 calories somedays isn't good either.


Your diet HAS to be consistently high in protein to gain muscle, with good healthy carbs. Chocolate is garbage. Chocolate and candy is bullcrap. Don't eat any of it. Eat good food.

You have gained 10kg in 4 months? That's like 22lbs. That's tons of weight and it is not all fat bro, I know it isn't. Post up some new pictures and let's take a look.



How are you feeling with your strength? Do you feel a bit stronger with the weight?


Let's move up the weight to 75kg for squats and start working that weight. Same rep range goals. Same for chest and back, increase the weight. Try another 5 kg. Let's start handling some more wight across the board. You are going to have to dig down and lift hard bro. You can do it, just be safe and don't overdo it at the same time.

I see you upped the weight on deadlifts. Good job!

 

[c24k]

getting a workout buddy always makes a helluva difference

 

[JoeMyBro]

Yes, eating chocolate bars doesn't do crap for you. Dipping to 2400 calories somedays isn't good either.

my reasoning is my lack of results, causing me to be unmotivated... others have mentioned they notice a difference in size in me, but I am more aware of what is "size" and what is actually just fat filling me out.

Your diet HAS to be consistently high in protein to gain muscle, with good healthy carbs. Chocolate is garbage. Chocolate and candy is bullcrap. Don't eat any of it. Eat good food.

I don't like to eat meat very often... its a big problem I have considering... I have some problems swallowing certain foods, and meat is one of the big problems for me, some unknown reason... I was eating half a chicken per meal, about 200g... but now I cant stand the thought of eating it... I don't mind eating chicken kebabs, or meatballs made with sauce since they are easier to get down. Sometimes I don't mind tuna, but my family has only so much cash. I'm getting paid soon for a bit of work I've done. I think I'll be investing in meat perhaps I need to expand my choices. Couldn't find canned chicken you had mentioned earlier, perhaps they don't sell that in Australia?

You have gained 10kg in 4 months? That's like 22lbs. That's tons of weight and it is not all fat bro, I know it isn't. Post up some new pictures and let's take a look.

taken yesterday 77.9kg (probably more, I had full stomach right bfore bed):

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6904/p1010004gbz.jpg

How are you feeling with your strength? Do you feel a bit stronger with the weight?

a little bit I guess... if I look at the results, I have been able to lift more. nothing significant though.

Let's move up the weight to 75kg for squats and start working that weight. Same rep range goals. Same for chest and back, increase the weight. Try another 5 kg. Let's start handling some more wight across the board. You are going to have to dig down and lift hard bro. You can do it, just be safe and don't overdo it at the same time.

let's see how I go...

I see you upped the weight on deadlifts. Good job!

thanks. one of the few good experiences so far. I'm always happy when I accomplish moving more weight because its the only thing I have to actually tell me that, I should be gaining muscle as a result.

 

[dabuffguy]

thanks. one of the few good experiences so far. I'm always happy when I accomplish moving more weight because its the only thing I have to actually tell me that, I should be gaining muscle as a result.

I can definitely see a difference bro. You are gaining. You can't expect to look like Arnold in 6 months. We all start somewhere, and you have moved a good distance from the beginning. However you manage to get in that protein, you need to do it bro. The ONLY way I went from skinny to having some decent muscle was from eating tons of food, and high in protein.



I feel your mentality is one of impatience and of unrealistic expetations. You want to look like that guy on the magazine cover, we all do. Those guys have lifted for years on end with tons of hard work. If you do the same, you will grow to your potential, which anyone's potential is actually pretty big. So stay at it bro.

I can see the difference, your arms and shoulders have gained noticable size and your chest some too. As far as body fat, it looks only slightly more than your first pictures.


Like I said in my pevious post, let's move up the weghts this week and see how you do. Lift hard man. Act like you are a beast and tear the weights up.

 

[JoeMyBro]

yeah It'd be nice to have a workout buddy... might be possible soon... I'm trying to get into a fitness course, then in a year I can do personal training. I need to find out about Core strengthening... but if I can't develop my own frame I'm going to be the worlds worse PT lol... hehe I know I'll get there I just have some really depressed moments... mostly after I take my picture -.- maybe I need to avoid that lol

 

[JoeMyBro]

I can definitely see a difference bro. You are gaining. You can't expect to look like Arnold in 6 months. We all start somewhere, and you have moved a good distance from the beginning. However you manage to get in that protein, you need to do it bro. The ONLY way I went from skinny to having some decent muscle was from eating tons of food, and high in protein.

I wish I had the motivation to eat all this meat... do u think I could sort of have like a protein shake each meal, in addition with a source of meat? It'd be easier to eat half the amount in meat and the other in protein. especially if I want to have a low carb day. ?

I feel your mentality is one of impatience and of unrealistic expetations. You want to look like that guy on the magazine cover, we all do. Those guys have lifted for years on end with tons of hard work. If you do the same, you will grow to your potential, which anyone's potential is actually pretty big. So stay at it bro.

yeah but I see guys on this forum who have gotten huge in 6 months or 1 year... I suppose they have a little "help" though... it makes me wonder about the "help"... heck even the legal stuff you got. I have no idea about it in Australia though. I haven't given enough time to all natural yet but I'm not one of those people who care about "How" I get there... the easy way is fine as long as it doesn't kill me. for the moment there's no chance I'd get any "help" though.

I can see the difference, your arms and shoulders have gained noticable size and your chest some too. As far as body fat, it looks only slightly more than your first pictures.

too be honest, I just looked and compared once again... I cannot see any difference other than fat gain across my body. I think if I have any gains, its too hard to see them... I thought in a 6 month period I could SEE some gains though, but if its just fat I'm quite upset with it.

Like I said in my pevious post, let's move up the weghts this week and see how you do. Lift hard man. Act like you are a beast and tear the weights up.

Chest workout coming up today... I'll report back (if I get the chance)

 

[dabuffguy]

yeah It'd be nice to have a workout buddy... might be possible soon... I'm trying to get into a fitness course, then in a year I can do personal training. I need to find out about Core strengthening... but if I can't develop my own frame I'm going to be the worlds worse PT lol... hehe I know I'll get there I just have some really depressed moments... mostly after I take my picture -.- maybe I need to avoid that lol

You know what, I wake up some mornings and look in the mirror thinking that I am not getting anywhere and it pisses me off. It really get's upsetting from time to time. Then someone makes a comment on how they notice I have been getting bigger and then it changes.

People are very critical of themselves when it comes to these things. If other people notice, you are doing something right.

If the scale is going up an dyou are gaining even a little bit of strength, you are doing something right. With time bro, you will learn to understand your body and what makes it grow the best. When you lift, you have to pay attention. Does it work for you?

Thus far you have gained 10 kg in 4 months. Honestly, that is a ton of weight. Another 10kg and people will really comment on how buff you are starting to look. Use whatever you can to motivate yourself. You won't do some lifting and wake up the next day with a pristine physique like Kevin Levrone.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Well, here's a photo of my back in April 7 2008 -- when I was (I think) 88kg...

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1331/p1010013i.jpg

now compare it to my current self:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6904/p1010004gbz.jpg

maybe you can tell if there is a difference... because they SHOULD be... I just can't see it. the only difference I see is the 10kg in fat I've yet to gain back.

...ANYWAY I have to run now I'm 30 mins late to start my workout

 

[c24k]

I do this amazing finish to my workout its called "Around the World" get a weight plate if its your first time get a 25lb plate if thats too strenuous go down the next available plate if your plates are in KG it will be your 11 lbs weight. The exercise is done 5,4,3,2,1. First you'll pick up the weight and holding it with both hands you hold it out with your arms fully extended and "drive the bus" your just turning the plate to the right like your driving (5 times), then without rest immediately go to a chest press standing (5 times) then on your 5th press up pull it behind your head and press up keeping it behind your neck (5 times) coming down on ur 5th press up hold the plate to your back and squat as far down as you can (5 times) after that again without rest pull it back front and do 5 big half circles starting either to the right or left swing the weight with arms fully extended in a half circle and bring it back to ur waist and then go to the other direction doing the same thing. Once your done with that take a 15 second break, 30 if your really exhausted and begin again but only 4 and so on. When you get to the final where your only doing it 1 time do it as FAST as possible and when you get to the circle do two full circles. I promise you will notice a difference in definition and strength and endurance. 3 weeks ago i was barely getting the 25 and now i'm doing it with a 45 lb weight. Make sure you DO THIS AFTER EVERY WORKOUT NO MATTER WHAT

 

[JoeMyBro]

c24k, while I appreciate that, it seems a bit random?? I've never heard of that before... is there good reason to attach that to my current workouts?

...man the only thing I can see looks slightly better, in comparison with my before/after shots (just above), is that my back looks more defined... sigh.. and thats probably just less-fat making it look that way.

ANYWAY... I finished my workout today... not THAT successful, but I did push myself.

Flat BB Press: 45kg x 15, 12, 8, 11
Incline DB Press: 20kg (per dumbbell) x 12, 9, 8, 11
Dips: 78kg x 8, 5, 5
Overhead DB Press: 10kg x 15, 16, 14, 13
DB Side Laterals: 10kg x 12, 10, 8
DB Skull Crushers: 10kg x 17, 12, 12
Overhead DB Extensions: 7.5kg x 10, 10

Should I up it to 50kg next time for bench, because the rep range is suppost to be 10-12, and its more like 8-15 with what I can actually do (less consistant)? I'm doing BB for flat, followed by DB for Incline for a while, this way I can track my progress better. If I keep switching them around it will get confusing. I hope its not significantly going to impact my progress though becuase of this.

Finished in 1 hour 3 mins... took 3 mins longer cuz I didn't skip any exercises this time. I have to admit, I look forward to my chest workout... back workout I don't really care for, but my legs workout is the one I always DREAD lol... those damned squats... I'm thinking if I had some better core strength squats wouldn't take so much out of me (cardiovascularly).

On another topic...

DIET - I'm trying to plan myself a strict 3500 calorie, 100g carb diet. The problem is, even with my protein shakes, I add milk which has 13g carbs. About 1 rough serving of veggies is maybe 24g carbs. If I had 3 protein shakes per day, 1 casien protein before bed, and 2 meat sources for the other meals I can probably manage to actually stomache it... but I tried to eat these chicken kebabs today they were damn disgusting!! Probably just the woolworths chicken that tastes so terrible.

Can you help me determine a rough meal plan? I'll start:

(non-workout days - 100g low carb)

Meal 1:
- 5 Large, Whole Eggs, Scrambled (cooked): 420 cals, 30g fat, 4g carbs, 31g protein
- 1x Protein Shake in non-fat Soy Milk: 210 cals, 1g fat, 16g carbs, 24g protein

630 cals - 31g fat - 20g carbs - 55g protein

Meal 2:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 3:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 4:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 5:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 6:
- 1x Casein Protein Shake in non-fat Soy Milk: 210 cals, 1g fat, 16g carbs, 24g protein (I assume its the same as regular protein shake, approx.)


...thats all I can plan for now... this will be a work in progress, but I'll add some food options I know I can get below:

Meat Sources
- 0.5 x 425g Can of Tuna in Olive Oil: 312 cals, 18g fat, 1g carbs, 36g protein (limit: max 2x per day, sounds reasonable??)
- 5x Meatballs (rough figures only): 391 cals, 25g fat, 0g carbs, 39g protein (probably contains carbs too because I cook the mince meat with tomatoe sauce stuff)
- 1 x Chicken Kebabs (I think they are LEAN meat): 98cals, 4g fat, 0g carbs, 15g protein
- 200g chicken (skin taken off): equiv. to approximately 4x chicken kebabs

I think I need to look around for other meats... because, I hate eating the above ones... tuna is sometimes ok.

ANYWAY I understand this meal planning would be time consuming, so if you don't have the time.. its ok... I'll eventually figure it out. Just not sure what kinds of foods are very LOW carb but high in protein/fat. If I buy some flaxseed oil, I suppose that would up my calories at the end of the day, and I can have it before bed each night... don't I have to mix it with extra virgin olive oil? heh I need to do some research.

 

[dabuffguy]

c24k, while I appreciate that, it seems a bit random?? I've never heard of that before... is there good reason to attach that to my current workouts?

...man the only thing I can see looks slightly better, in comparison with my before/after shots (just above), is that my back looks more defined... sigh.. and thats probably just less-fat making it look that way.

ANYWAY... I finished my workout today... not THAT successful, but I did push myself.

Flat BB Press: 45kg x 15, 12, 8, 11
Incline DB Press: 20kg (per dumbbell) x 12, 9, 8, 11
Dips: 78kg x 8, 5, 5
Overhead DB Press: 10kg x 15, 16, 14, 13
DB Side Laterals: 10kg x 12, 10, 8
DB Skull Crushers: 10kg x 17, 12, 12
Overhead DB Extensions: 7.5kg x 10, 10

Should I up it to 50kg next time for bench, because the rep range is suppost to be 10-12, and its more like 8-15 with what I can actually do (less consistant)? I'm doing BB for flat, followed by DB for Incline for a while, this way I can track my progress better. If I keep switching them around it will get confusing. I hope its not significantly going to impact my progress though becuase of this.

Finished in 1 hour 3 mins... took 3 mins longer cuz I didn't skip any exercises this time. I have to admit, I look forward to my chest workout... back workout I don't really care for, but my legs workout is the one I always DREAD lol... those damned squats... I'm thinking if I had some better core strength squats wouldn't take so much out of me (cardiovascularly).

On another topic...

DIET - I'm trying to plan myself a strict 3500 calorie, 100g carb diet. The problem is, even with my protein shakes, I add milk which has 13g carbs. About 1 rough serving of veggies is maybe 24g carbs. If I had 3 protein shakes per day, 1 casien protein before bed, and 2 meat sources for the other meals I can probably manage to actually stomache it... but I tried to eat these chicken kebabs today they were damn disgusting!! Probably just the woolworths chicken that tastes so terrible.

Can you help me determine a rough meal plan? I'll start:

(non-workout days - 100g low carb)

Meal 1:
- 5 Large, Whole Eggs, Scrambled (cooked): 420 cals, 30g fat, 4g carbs, 31g protein
- 1x Protein Shake in non-fat Soy Milk: 210 cals, 1g fat, 16g carbs, 24g protein

630 cals - 31g fat - 20g carbs - 55g protein

Meal 2:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 3:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 4:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 5:
- 1 x Cup Mixed Frozen Veggies (cooked/microwave): 107 cals, 0g fat, 24g carbs, 5g protein

Meal 6:
- 1x Casein Protein Shake in non-fat Soy Milk: 210 cals, 1g fat, 16g carbs, 24g protein (I assume its the same as regular protein shake, approx.)


...thats all I can plan for now... this will be a work in progress, but I'll add some food options I know I can get below:

Meat Sources
- 0.5 x 425g Can of Tuna in Olive Oil: 312 cals, 18g fat, 1g carbs, 36g protein (limit: max 2x per day, sounds reasonable??)
- 5x Meatballs (rough figures only): 391 cals, 25g fat, 0g carbs, 39g protein (probably contains carbs too because I cook the mince meat with tomatoe sauce stuff)
- 1 x Chicken Kebabs (I think they are LEAN meat): 98cals, 4g fat, 0g carbs, 15g protein
- 200g chicken (skin taken off): equiv. to approximately 4x chicken kebabs

I think I need to look around for other meats... because, I hate eating the above ones... tuna is sometimes ok.

ANYWAY I understand this meal planning would be time consuming, so if you don't have the time.. its ok... I'll eventually figure it out. Just not sure what kinds of foods are very LOW carb but high in protein/fat. If I buy some flaxseed oil, I suppose that would up my calories at the end of the day, and I can have it before bed each night... don't I have to mix it with extra virgin olive oil? heh I need to do some research.

You aren't going to gain muscle on low carb bro. If you want to keep some of the fat off stop eating chocloate bars.

And 3500 calories for a low carb diet means you will nead to eat like 550 grams of protein to reach the calorie level.

300+ protein
300 carbs
80-100 fats

That's what you need to reach 3500 calories.





Next chest workout go to 50kg. I am surprised you were able to do 15 reps at 45 after bumping the weight 5kg.

 

[c24k]

Random or not its used by MS State Football players. Fact is it works. Use it or not doesn't really matter, all i can say is it works and i love it

 

[JoeMyBro]

@c24k

Well thanks for detailing it for me. I just don't want to start something new, when I haven't completely got my current routine working for me just yet. It's best not to touch my routine at all, until I am certain I know it works. After all, once I complete my first bulking phase, mentally I'm all set for future attempts!

@dabuffguy

ok it's just you mentioned I should go low carb, in order to reduce fat gains. too be honest it would be very challenging for me, to get that kind of protein in each day.

If you do the math:
this time: 46 total reps at 45kg = 2070
last time: 50 total reps at 40kg = 2000

Making my improvement by 70... which is not that great, but it's still an improvement. And I apparently gained only 0.1kg of weight, so maybe 70 equates to 0.1kg of muscle for me lol... yaaahh right hehe... if only it was that simple.

Next time, I need to aim for at least 42 total reps at 50kg, to have made an improvement, which is at least 10.5 reps per set.

... I wish I had some software to calculate all this for me ...

DIET - do you guys think there's any time where food like chocolate bars, are actually beneficial, "not harmful" to gains, or won't likely be stored as body fat? I would have though post-workout, but they contain lots of FAT which you don't want post-workout. Perhaps in the morning when you wake up and have to break the fast (breakfast).

 

[dabuffguy]

@c24k

Well thanks for detailing it for me. I just don't want to start something new, when I haven't completely got my current routine working for me just yet. It's best not to touch my routine at all, until I am certain I know it works. After all, once I complete my first bulking phase, mentally I'm all set for future attempts!

@dabuffguy

ok it's just you mentioned I should go low carb, in order to reduce fat gains. too be honest it would be very challenging for me, to get that kind of protein in each day.


I didn't say "low carb" I said "less carbs". Which in this case means stop eat chocolate and candy. You see big fat people? It's because they eat potato chips and candy/chocolate. Stop doing it.


If you do the math:
this time: 46 total reps at 45kg = 2070
last time: 50 total reps at 40kg = 2000

Making my improvement by 70... which is not that great, but it's still an improvement. And I apparently gained only 0.1kg of weight, so maybe 70 equates to 0.1kg of muscle for me lol... yaaahh right hehe... if only it was that simple.

I promise you, no bodybuilder calculates their total weight moved. It is totally unnecessary. If you are a powerlifter going for a certain combined score, you would pay attention to this, but not for starting out.


Next time, I need to aim for at least 42 total reps at 50kg, to have made an improvement, which is at least 10.5 reps per set.

... I wish I had some software to calculate all this for me ...

DIET - do you guys think there's any time where food like chocolate bars, are actually beneficial, "not harmful" to gains, or won't likely be stored as body fat?

Do not eat candy and chocolate as a source of nutrition. It's junk food and is labeled junk food for a reason. Beacuse it's junk. Tastes good though, hehehe.


I would have though post-workout, but they contain lots of FAT which you don't want post-workout. Perhaps in the morning when you wake up and have to break the fast (breakfast).


Did you really just consider eating candy for breakfast?

I'm putting it to you straight, if you don't eat to get big, you won't get big. Candy is turd.


I am really wondering how you upped the weight by 5kg on bench and still managed to do 15 reps your first set.

 

[c24k]

if your doing 46 total reps of 45 kg u need much much heavier weight your just building your endurance as many reps as your pulling off go really heavy

 

[dabuffguy]

if your doing 46 total reps of 45 kg u need much much heavier weight your just building your endurance as many reps as your pulling off go really heavy

Not true. A higher rep range is sufficient to build mass. I have him doing higher reps right now for a reason.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I think the total weight moved is a good indicator of progress... if I increase the weight but do many less reps, how am I to know I have made any progress. By increasing that total number, I know overall I am improving - in terms of intensity. The intensity would also increase if I have shorter rest peroids and an overall shorter workout, though I don't monitor the rest periods on paper that's too much to write out.

Well I'm taking your experience as the reason for why I should listen to you and do these high reps... if I keep increasing the weight I'm thinking the reps will be lowered a bit anyway because I won't be able to keep doing 15 reps lol

 

[dabuffguy]

I think the total weight moved is a good indicator of progress... if I increase the weight but do many less reps, how am I to know I have made any progress. By increasing that total number, I know overall I am improving - in terms of intensity. The intensity would also increase if I have shorter rest peroids and an overall shorter workout, though I don't monitor the rest periods on paper that's too much to write out.

Well I'm taking your experience as the reason for why I should listen to you and do these high reps... if I keep increasing the weight I'm thinking the reps will be lowered a bit anyway because I won't be able to keep doing 15 reps lol

Exactly right.

Let's see how you do with the 75kg squats and the 50kg bench. I'm expecting less reps across the board.


And check out strongbow's pictures in this section. Look at his legs; they are awesome. And look at how high of a rep range he used to achieve that.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-gallery-members-pictures/wheels-648346.html

The Workout My Version:
Squats:
1x 40reps 135lbs
2x40 reps 225 lbs
2x30 reps 315 lbs
Squats are all ass to grass, no parallel Bullshit.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...s-pictures/39248d1240598075-wheels-wheels.jpg




High reps work just fine as you can clearly see.

 

[JoeMyBro]

is he natty? I get the impression if you have extra testostorone and stuff due to chemical assistance, you're needing to do additional reps and more frequent workouts even.

squats to the ground... thats intense... I better work on not doing any more cheat reps with my squats, even if they do exhaust me... lol I don't think I'll be hitting 15 reps again

 

[dabuffguy]

is he natty? I get the impression if you have extra testostorone and stuff due to chemical assistance, you're needing to do additional reps and more frequent workouts even.

The only reason you would do more reps or more weight is because of the performance enhancement of the drugs. They push your abilities beyond normal limits, so you might as well take advantage of it right? If you can lift heavier and/or do more reps, all the better.



squats to the ground... thats intense... I better work on not doing any more cheat reps with my squats, even if they do exhaust me... lol I don't think I'll be hitting 15 reps again

It doesn't matter whether someone uses drugs or not, the training concept still applies.


All the way down bro. Basically touch your heels to your butt cheeks. Your weight is light enough you should be able to achieve that. 75kg is not that much really so you shouldnt hurt yourself.

This is an option though as of right now. Hit atleast parallel like you should already have been doing.



Cheat reps? No cheating either. Do it right every time. Remember when I talked about proper form? That is very important.

 

[JoeMyBro]

The training concept may apply but, if I did the same workout as someone using drugs, I would probably be overtraining. I need to train like a natty would to get optimal results, same applies for diet.

75kg for ME is a lot, you'd believe me if you felt the energy get sapped out of me every time! The first set is ok, but the following ones are the killers, which is why I end up chickenning out some times doing poorer form. It's something I definately need to work on.

I think for some reps I sort of just sit as far as I can go anyway, later though I don't continue going that low... I know it would help, but I feel like I won't be able to get back up again.. I did that once and I was caught under the weight, I think I mentioned that experience here...

Todays Back workout:

Deadlifts: 91.5kg x 5, 5, 5, 6, 8

I pushed myself towards the end to get those extra reps, because I hadn't increased the weight much since last time (90kg)

If you wonder why I didn't up it to 95kg, it's just because I didn't have enough weight. I have to buy some more... I'm probably just going to buy a couple more 10kg weight plates should be enough for a little while until I get more money. I also don't know what my schedule will be like in a few months so this is just fine... also I won't be bulking forever, not with the rate I gain fat. I'll definately take your opinions on it though.

By the way, I didn't get any comments regarding my older post. Should I be worried?

Well, here's a photo of my back in April 7 2008 -- when I was (I think) 88kg...

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1331/p1010013i.jpg

now compare it to my current self:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6904/p1010004gbz.jpg

maybe you can tell if there is a difference... because they SHOULD be... I just can't see it. the only difference I see is the 10kg in fat I've yet to gain back.

...ANYWAY I have to run now I'm 30 mins late to start my workout

 

[dabuffguy]

The training concept may apply but, if I did the same workout as someone using drugs, I would probably be overtraining. I need to train like a natty would to get optimal results, same applies for diet.


Trust me, 4 sets at 15 reps on sqauts an dother excercises is not even close to overtraining. The concept still applies, the quantity can be adjusted.



75kg for ME is a lot, you'd believe me if you felt the energy get sapped out of me every time! The first set is ok, but the following ones are the killers, which is why I end up chickenning out some times doing poorer form. It's something I definately need to work on.


Yep, just keep that form srtict. It's important, especially for avoiding injury. If it burns and kicks your butt and you are hesitant to do more and/or chicken out, that means you are pushing hard, and that is good.

I think for some reps I sort of just sit as far as I can go anyway, later though I don't continue going that low... I know it would help, but I feel like I won't be able to get back up again.. I did that once and I was caught under the weight, I think I mentioned that experience here...


Go low as many a you can.


Todays Back workout:

Deadlifts: 91.5kg x 5, 5, 5, 6, 8

I pushed myself towards the end to get those extra reps, because I hadn't increased the weight much since last time (90kg)

If you wonder why I didn't up it to 95kg, it's just because I didn't have enough weight. I have to buy some more... I'm probably just going to buy a couple more 10kg weight plates should be enough for a little while until I get more money. I also don't know what my schedule will be like in a few months so this is just fine... also I won't be bulking forever, not with the rate I gain fat. I'll definately take your opinions on it though.

By the way, I didn't get any comments regarding my older post. Should I be worried?

I commented on your post bro.

Now from a while ago, yo can definitely see an improvement in your back muscles. Your arms look better too. You are making progress, just keep at it.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Well crap... I hurt my wrist/forearm while doing barbell bench press. I managed to lift really well though with 50kg this time... I think it was 15 reps the first set once again

...but today I have my back, biceps and forearms workout... I think all the exercises will use my forearms and I'm not sure if I should do it because I might make it worse? It hurts a bit, mostly when I turn my arm so my palm is facing upward...

Since i've never had to miss a workout before due to injury I'm unsure what the best option is... perhaps I should just skip the workout today, and hopefully if its better tomorrow I can do the workout then instead. If not, I can do it the following day. And if its still not better, I'd be up to my Tuesday workout again with squats which I would have to skip.

I don't want to take time off gym... but most exercises seem to use the arms? lol... this really sucks.

Though, if I make the injury worse I will cause even more problems... I guess I have no choice but to wait until its better and resume the closest workout in my cycle from there. what do u guys think?

 

[dabuffguy]

Well crap... I hurt my wrist/forearm while doing barbell bench press. I managed to lift really well though with 50kg this time... I think it was 15 reps the first set once again

...but today I have my back, biceps and forearms workout... I think all the exercises will use my forearms and I'm not sure if I should do it because I might make it worse? It hurts a bit, mostly when I turn my arm so my palm is facing upward...

Since i've never had to miss a workout before due to injury I'm unsure what the best option is... perhaps I should just skip the workout today, and hopefully if its better tomorrow I can do the workout then instead. If not, I can do it the following day. And if its still not better, I'd be up to my Tuesday workout again with squats which I would have to skip.

I don't want to take time off gym... but most exercises seem to use the arms? lol... this really sucks.

Though, if I make the injury worse I will cause even more problems... I guess I have no choice but to wait until its better and resume the closest workout in my cycle from there. what do u guys think?

Good job benching. 15 reps again? Nice! More strength means more muscle.

Let's do another 5kg. 55kg next time.


Take a day or two rest on your wrist if it hurts. Give your workout a try, if it isn;t going to work because of the wrist, then just rest it.

I just blew my rotator cuff doing bench this monday. I can't lift anything but legs right now. It sucks.

 

[JoeMyBro]

barbell press: 55kg x 12, 10, 6, 8.5 -- I pushed hard too... why did my strength go down? I'm not entirely sure the cause, maybe its normal for this to happen sometimes.

deadlifts: 80kg x 12, 8, 8, 8 -- I pushed hard also, but I felt I could have gone a couple more on the first set if I pushed a bit more -- also, I was working on better form this time (going lower) managing to go at least parallel on all reps (maybe except a few, I cannot pay attention to how low I go all the time bcuz Im so tired at the time lol)

anyway... considering my previous results, this is a sudden drop in strength... its like 9 less reps than last time, though, it is another 5kg heavier than last time. stil I thought it would be only 4-5 reps less...

...dude that sucks about ur injury... thats why form is so important aye but I guess we cant avoid injury altogether.

 

[dabuffguy]

barbell press: 55kg x 12, 10, 6, 8.5 -- I pushed hard too...

why did my strength go down?


It didn't. It's improving. Your reps went down because you are using heavier weight, but that's what your body needs. Keep the same weight for next time. You should be able to do more reps.

I'm not entirely sure the cause, maybe its normal for this to happen sometimes.

deadlifts: 80kg x 12, 8, 8, 8 -- I pushed hard also, but I felt I could have gone a couple more on the first set if I pushed a bit more -- also, I was working on better form this time (going lower) managing to go at least parallel on all reps (maybe except a few, I cannot pay attention to how low I go all the time bcuz Im so tired at the time lol)


You need to buy some more weight plates and use heavy weight on deadlifts. These are 5-rep excercises with deadlifts. If you are pulling 80kg for that many reps, you should start pulling 100kg atleast your next workout. Why did you use 80kg this time when you used 90kg last time?

anyway... considering my previous results, this is a sudden drop in strength... its like 9 less reps than last time, though, it is another 5kg heavier than last time. stil I thought it would be only 4-5 reps less...

It doesn't matter plus you didn't have a decrease in strength. You added 10$ more weight to the bar, you can't expect to do more reps wioth a 10% increase. The heavier it gets, the slower you will progress in weight increases. That's just how it goes. You put more weight on the bar, your body will adapt by growing and getting stronger.this is what I wanted to see.

...dude that sucks about ur injury... thats why form is so important aye but I guess we cant avoid injury altogether.

Yeah, my injury blows. Form is important, but when you have 295lbs on the bar, sometimes your shoulder just gives. It happens to even the biggest and strongest advanced guys.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I wrote that wrong woops, I did 95kg for deadlifts not 80kg. If you think about it, I'm gaining weight so... I have to lift that extra body weight too (squats).

Though, I don't have any extra weight for today so I might have to stay at 95kg for this week and do more reps instead.

I've been sidetracked... got to go buy some extra 20kg but it costs me $3.50 per kg ><

Hmm.. I understand that its more weight but the total intensity went down which is, what I thought would spark muscle growth? If the intensity hasn't increased, there is not "new" stress so your muscles won't need to adapt or "grow"?

On another topic... I'm getting really fat lol how long do you think I should go on before cutting down again. Would it even make a difference if I bulked for 6 months, cut for 6 months and repeat, instead of bulking for 9 months, cutting for 9 months and repeat? I should be growing just the same except I don't have to be fat for as long, right? (or get as fat). Are longer cylces more beneficial some reason? If so I'll have to deal with the emotional stresses of looking like a fat ass.

Regarding my previous wrist injury... it still hurts a bit but I actually didn't skip any workouts... surprisingly it didn't affect my routine, except I didn't do the wrist curls for obvious reasons lol.

I know this sounds stupid but here is what my leg workouts are actually like now:

Barbell Full Squats
Standing One-Legged Dumbbell Calf Raises
Weighted Crunches
Weighted Leg Raises

yup.. last few weeks I've been skipping 3 of my exercises:

Dumbbell Lunges
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Calf Raises (this one is pretty useless though I'd need a machine to get enough weight on there lol)

...it's a sucky excuse but I can't figure out how to do proper form on stiff-legged deadlifts. with the lunges I have poor form too.

I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make in my workout, but maybe I should try to put at least lunges and deadlifts back into my routine? ...or maybe its not important. I still do deadlifts on my back/biceps/forearms workout.

 

[dabuffguy]

I wrote that wrong woops, I did 95kg for deadlifts not 80kg. If you think about it, I'm gaining weight so... I have to lift that extra body weight too (squats).


Okay, good. I was like wtf? lol. But did you actually do that many reps on them with that weight? If so, that's a good improvement.



Though, I don't have any extra weight for today so I might have to stay at 95kg for this week and do more reps instead.

That's okay. Increasing reps is one way to increase groth and stength. Just try and get some weights the fastest you can. Or tape some bags of sand on it or something lol.

I've been sidetracked... got to go buy some extra 20kg but it costs me $3.50 per kg ><

Hmm.. I understand that its more weight but the total intensity went down which is, what I thought would spark muscle growth? If the intensity hasn't increased,

there is not "new" stress so your muscles won't need to adapt or "grow"?

More wieght is new stress even if you do less reps. You are doing fine bro.



On another topic... I'm getting really fat lol


Are you still eating chocloate? Get rid of the sugars and simple carbs. No white breads, sugar, soda etc.


How long do you think I should go on before cutting down again?

It really is up to you to decide, but I honestly would focus purely on gaining mass for atleast 1 yea total, so like another 6 or 7 months. When you cut BF, your muscle growth slows quite a bit, and can actually reverse. It's easier to cut BF with more muscle.



Would it even make a difference if I bulked for 6 months, cut for 6 months and repeat, instead of bulking for 9 months, cutting for 9 months and repeat? I should be growing just the same except I don't have to be fat for as long, right? (or get as fat). Are longer cylces more beneficial some reason? If so I'll have to deal with the emotional stresses of looking like a fat ass.


You don't look fat bro. Again, just cut out some of the simple carbs and sugars. If that doesn't help, then drop 50 gram of carbs more. You don't want to drop carbs a lot though.

Regarding my previous wrist injury... it still hurts a bit but I actually didn't skip any workouts... surprisingly it didn't affect my routine, except I didn't do the wrist curls for obvious reasons lol.


Then just take it easy on the wrist curls for a bit. They make my wrists sore after a while. They aren't that imporant for you at this point anyways.

I know this sounds stupid but here is what my leg workouts are actually like now:

Barbell Full Squats
Standing One-Legged Dumbbell Calf Raises
Weighted Crunches
Weighted Leg Raises

yup.. last few weeks I've been skipping 3 of my exercises:

Dumbbell Lunges
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Calf Raises (this one is pretty useless though I'd need a machine to get enough weight on there lol)

...it's a sucky excuse but I can't figure out how to do proper form on stiff-legged deadlifts. with the lunges I have poor form too.

I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make in my workout, but maybe I should try to put at least lunges and deadlifts back into my routine? ...or maybe its not important. I still do deadlifts on my back/biceps/forearms workout.

As long as you are doing squats and regular deadlifts on your back day, your legs are getting enough work. The extras help minimally.



You are doing good bro. You are getting stronger and your numbers show it. You have to be getting more muscle with that strength. Just keep at it and take it easy on those sugars and simple carbs. I'd rather you fell short of your calories than add trashy foods to reach the calorie number because they do you no good other than to go to your waist.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Yeah I admit last couple weeks I've been on a bit of a rampage with the chocolate lol. I decided this morning to clean up my act (actually, I decided that a week ago err..). I thought it was better to get the calories in even if it was chocolate or pizza or something... some reason though pizza doesn't seem so bad... its white bread I guess for the base, with cheese. I try to have the pizza in the morning since its a simpler carb to "break the fast". Last night I forgot to have my casein protein... I was in bed when I realized it I couldn't be stuffed to get up and make it... I feel guilty about it so I won't be skipping a pre-bed "meal" again lol.

Anyway I'm just sitting here eating my half a chicken and I just finished my back workout!

Deadlifts: 97.5kg x 5, 5, 5, 6, 7

I could only fit 97.5kg onto the bar, I was going to chuck the extra small weights in my pockets but they would make my pants fall off... too awkward LOL even if I am in my backyard training. My form is starting to suffer, I'm unsure... when I lift it up my body tries to lean forward a bit (it's feeling sooo heavy lol)... but oh well I gotta keep going and pushing myself here. When I get a chance to learn about core strength, that will really help me I think (with my flexibility issues and lifting form).

One thing that is really confusing too me... I'm getting fat again, but it feels almost like a different kind of fat. I mean, I don't look "fat" in the same way. Perhaps its extra muscle or "harder" muscle that makes this difference in my appearance? I just wish I took more photos back before I started cutting the first time around... would have been really useful for comparison. Of course it could all be in my head which is why I'm dillegent at my complaining about how fat I'm getting.. then again I shouldn't complain if I'm going to slack off with my diet.

By the way... how much are you benching? Did you say about 300lbs? What rep range is that? I'm trying to compare so I can try to calculate how long it may take to get my chest looking huge like yours in that pic. Very impressive man! lol I'm only benching what, like 55kg hahaha its guna take a while

 

[dabuffguy]

where you at bro?

 

[c24k]

anyone kno what happened to this guy?