3 Months Bulking - Feedback Requested

[JoeMyBro]

Hello,

This is from period 13th January 2009 to 8th April 2009 (approx 3 months).

I'm posting here because I'm feeling as though I've made very very little (if any) progress with my training routine and was hoping for some feedback. I use the FatTrack Self Assessment skinfold caliper to measure my BF% as well as my scale to compare with my weight and "supposedly" the measurements are from this period of 3 months is:

BF%: Start = 8.3%, End = 8.3% -- no change (HIGHLY skeptical about this)
Weight: Start = 147 lbs, End = 161.8 lbs -- (14.8 lbs increase)
Fat: Start = 12.2 lbs, End = 13.4 lbs -- (1.2 lbs increase)
LBM: Start = 134.8 lbs, End = 148.4 lbs -- (13.6 lbs increase)

However, if you look at the before/after shots you can see only a noticiable difference in FAT but no muscle. Now, this is really stressful to me because I've been doing everything I can think of and have read about to make this work (my goal is to put on muscular size). My current goal is to add 50 lbs of lean muscle to my frame but at this rate I fear something is terribly wrong and I'm only gaining FAT and maybe recording incorrectly with my skinfold caliper (although, to be honest I measure the exact same way each week, so it SHOULD be somewhat accurate).

Picture (before = left, after = right):

Link: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1493/annoyedx.jpg

I have no leg shots, I didn't think about it at the time when I started unfortunately.

Training Info:
I've read Sean Nalewanyj's "The Truth About Building Muscle" and am working out at home solo with a bench, barbell, dumbells and free weights doing everything he suggsted. The real problem I am noticing is that, I have not been able to increase the weight I lift very much... if I'm lucky I can increase by a couple reps each week (and this is for big compound exercises, which I'm sure is WAY too little). I train 3 days split consistantly with 99% clean dieting and using creatine, l-glutamine, whey protein shakes etc and wholegrain foods eating 6 times a day every 2-3 hours. Sleep is pretty much normal 8-10 hours per night. I live a very relaxed lifestyle at the moment. If I'm not in the gym I'm on my computer but this doesn't reflect that I sit down eating junk etc. For those who do not know the routine sean has its basically Lift HEAVY with 5-7 reps until concentric muscular failure with mostly big compound exercises being the core of each workout. The workout is split across 3 days of the week, one being Legs/Abs, next being Chest, Shoulders and Triceps and finally Back, Biceps and Forearms.

Any suggestions and feedback is more than welcome I am desperate to determine what is wrong and make all necessary changes to my routine, diet, etc.
​

 

[ExtraMile]

I really feel for you making little progress, but its amazing that you stuck at it, if you can keep this determination and consistency you will make great gains in the future...

Two quick questions -

Do you squat?

Do you deadlift?

 

[JoeMyBro]

Yes I squat and deadlift in my routine. My squat can be a little awkward because my left leg is weird and I basically hve to turn my feet outwards a little so I can go down low enough, but I think its fine. Trying to go to failure on my own with squats is also a little difficult because I have no way to drop the weight safely, but I'm determined trust me.

I'm just trying to figure out something very critical here that I think is the problem:

a). If I can't lift heavier one week, what should I do to make it so I can lift heavier the next week? How can I determine the cause? I read you should be able to add 5% of the weight each week, yet I am unable to do so thus far, despite my greatest efforts and I don't know why.

b). Today I did my back, biceps and forearms. My routine goes: Deadlifts, Bent over Barbell Rows, Bent over Dumbell Rows, Barbell Shrugs, Barbell Curls, Standing Alternating dumbell curls, barbell wrist curls. Now...

I stepped up to do Barbell Curls (biceps). I lifted 31kg x 8 reps, then could only do 31kg x 3.5 reps. The previous workout I lifted 30kg x9 then 30kg x4 and the one before that was 30kg x8 and 30kg x6. So, each week I actually got weaker progressively if you times it all up for total poundage. Why the heck am I lifting less I cannot understand it. I am lifting until concentric muscular failure, yet I expect to be stronger each week and its just not happening. Previous to these three workouts though, I managed to add 1 rep over 2 weeks which is at least something. So... could it be that its possibly because I lifted heavier in deadlifts, etc? I also lifted less in standing dumbell curls too compared to a couple weeks ago where I could do a few more reps at the same weight.

I cannot compare my progress in deadlifts yet objectively, because I only recently bought wrist straps to lift properly, however next week I need to aim for 85kg since this week was 80kg. I'm honestly not sure if I can!

Well... I do dumbbell bench press since barbell is too dangerous I feel solo. Its difficult getting the weight on me, but I can manage so far. I lift at 31kg x2 last time and I was able to do 0.5 more reps total than the previous workout which was also 2kg less (30kg x2) so I think I've been making some small strength gains there at least.

Dumbbell side laterals -- 6kg x 2. How can I improve on this? Each week I can barely lift the 12 reps of 6kg x2 I do not know how I am going to increase the weight. Perhaps at such a low weight I need to focus on adding more reps first?

Well... sorry for writing all that. I just have a lot of questions I was hoping someone could answer. Either way I'm getting to the bottom of this because I am dedicated to my training. I'm going to read the No Nonsense Body Building ebook and try to determine the empty gaps in my knowledge. So far I feel maybe I just lack the confidence to really up the weight... either that or I am just not getting stronger .

ANY TIPS/ADVICE IS WELCOME (sorry if I put this in the wrong forum/topic section)

 

[c24k]

If your aren't able to lift heavier the next week thats fine. It doesn't happen for everyone. Just keep working on what your currently lifting or go up by smaller increments, don't over train yourself. Make sure you get roughly 1.7g of protein per pound of bodyweight. Also try and get a caloric excess. If you go to the Diet and Bodybuilding section you will find an article on RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) it will help you figure out how many calories you need to maintain and then u can add on 500-1000 EXTRA to help you grow. Personally i've never trusted things like that program your doing. Just looked shady. I think you would benefit more from the 5x5 program, which is totally free. Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version . From what i've read in your post your trying to do more than you can like your getting frustrated and adding more weight than you can do to get bigger ASAP which leads up to over-training and possibly hurting yourself. I've been doing the 5x5 and i love it. By the way, how old are you?

 

[JoeMyBro]

I'm turning 21 very soon... the program I'm doing focuses exactly on the concept of "progressive overload", and that nothing shy of muscular failure within a set will result in muscle growth. I've actually read this from both of the programs. The idea is, you lift heavier and your muscles must get bigger. If you lift too little reps with heavy weight, you will only become stronger and your muscles will not have a reason to grow. This means you need heavy weight + high reps (5-7, or something like that).

I guess I need to be looking into this 5x5 program too.. thanks.

 

[c24k]

I'm turning 21 very soon... the program I'm doing focuses exactly on the concept of "progressive overload", and that nothing shy of muscular failure within a set will result in muscle growth. I've actually read this from both of the programs. The idea is, you lift heavier and your muscles must get bigger. If you lift too little reps with heavy weight, you will only become stronger and your muscles will not have a reason to grow. This means you need heavy weight + high reps (5-7, or something like that).

I guess I need to be looking into this 5x5 program too.. thanks.

I'd stay away from Sean N.'s program. You don't always have to go to muscular failure. Lift big and eat big to get big. 1-3 Reps builds Neuromuscular Strength; 4-7 Reps build Strength and Muscle; 8-12 is considered the Prime of Building Muscle but doesn't develop Strength as fast. Anything over 12 is just endurance training and warm up sets. 5x5 is all you need. 3 months and only gained 14 pounds is pretty good btw for being natty. Are you new to working out?

 

[ExtraMile]

Yes I squat and deadlift in my routine. My squat can be a little awkward because my left leg is weird and I basically hve to turn my feet outwards a little so I can go down low enough, but I think its fine. Trying to go to failure on my own with squats is also a little difficult because I have no way to drop the weight safely, but I'm determined trust me.

I'm just trying to figure out something very critical here that I think is the problem:

a). If I can't lift heavier one week, what should I do to make it so I can lift heavier the next week? How can I determine the cause? I read you should be able to add 5% of the weight each week, yet I am unable to do so thus far, despite my greatest efforts and I don't know why.

b). Today I did my back, biceps and forearms. My routine goes: Deadlifts, Bent over Barbell Rows, Bent over Dumbell Rows, Barbell Shrugs, Barbell Curls, Standing Alternating dumbell curls, barbell wrist curls. Now...

I stepped up to do Barbell Curls (biceps). I lifted 31kg x 8 reps, then could only do 31kg x 3.5 reps. The previous workout I lifted 30kg x9 then 30kg x4 and the one before that was 30kg x8 and 30kg x6. So, each week I actually got weaker progressively if you times it all up for total poundage. Why the heck am I lifting less I cannot understand it. I am lifting until concentric muscular failure, yet I expect to be stronger each week and its just not happening. Previous to these three workouts though, I managed to add 1 rep over 2 weeks which is at least something. So... could it be that its possibly because I lifted heavier in deadlifts, etc? I also lifted less in standing dumbell curls too compared to a couple weeks ago where I could do a few more reps at the same weight.

I cannot compare my progress in deadlifts yet objectively, because I only recently bought wrist straps to lift properly, however next week I need to aim for 85kg since this week was 80kg. I'm honestly not sure if I can!

Well... I do dumbbell bench press since barbell is too dangerous I feel solo. Its difficult getting the weight on me, but I can manage so far. I lift at 31kg x2 last time and I was able to do 0.5 more reps total than the previous workout which was also 2kg less (30kg x2) so I think I've been making some small strength gains there at least.

Dumbbell side laterals -- 6kg x 2. How can I improve on this? Each week I can barely lift the 12 reps of 6kg x2 I do not know how I am going to increase the weight. Perhaps at such a low weight I need to focus on adding more reps first?

Well... sorry for writing all that. I just have a lot of questions I was hoping someone could answer. Either way I'm getting to the bottom of this because I am dedicated to my training. I'm going to read the No Nonsense Body Building ebook and try to determine the empty gaps in my knowledge. So far I feel maybe I just lack the confidence to really up the weight... either that or I am just not getting stronger .

ANY TIPS/ADVICE IS WELCOME (sorry if I put this in the wrong forum/topic section)

OK,
1. what is your diet like?

2. increasing weight on side laterals and db curls its pointless, increase 5lbs every week on deadlifts, squats, barbell rows, strict military press and barbell benchpress.
This is one of the best beginner routines and the main focus is increasing weight on those 5 lifts. 5x5 Calculator

3. make sure your resting enough between sets, 2-3mins on heavy compound lifts, 90secs-2mins on smaller single joint lifts like laterals.

4. make sure your sleeping enough.

5. now I dont mean this as an offence but Im gonna say this in the nicest way possible, you dont even need to be bb curling IMO you need to just build up your strength on the 5 lifts mensioned in number 3, Im 14 years old and I bench more than twice your weight lol, I understand your a beginner but going about your training doing back and biceps is the wrong way, do full body workouts just like the one in that workout program I posted above, as an alternate you could do something like this.

Workout A
Squats 3 sets 5-8 reps
Deadlift - work up to 1 set 5 reps
Dips 5 sets 8 reps
Chinups 3 sets 8-10 reps

Workout B
Flat Barbell Benchpress 3 sets 5-8 reps
Dumbell Pullover 3 sets 8-10 reps
Barbell Rows 3-4 sets 8 reps
Strict Military press 3 sets 8 reps

You would then alternate that throughuot a 3 day split, week 1 would go workout A on monday, B on wednesday and then A again on friday, week two would be B,A,B and so on.

Thats the routine I did when I started lifting, SaiBoT came up with it for me and it worked great.

The three main things to concentrate on right now for you will be eating big, lifting big, sleeping big.

Make sense? Shoot whatever other questions you have at me bro

 

[keasbey]

extra nailed this one. look into the 5x5 or the 3x5 program and i wouldnt touch those calipers again. they may be consistent but they are off alot. at 8%bf you wouldnt bother talking to us. a sorta rule of thumb is most guys see abs around 12-13%.

personally id start with the 3x5 and run that routine for 4months atleast its 3 lifts a day so if u feel u have a little extra to give throw in some dips/lat raises/leg press and you will grow.
how is your diet? getting 1-1.25g of protein per lb thats a good way to start. alot of guys notice a huge gain when they up it to 2-3 but just starting out hitting that mark will work well.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I'd stay away from Sean N.'s program. You don't always have to go to muscular failure. Lift big and eat big to get big. 1-3 Reps builds Neuromuscular Strength; 4-7 Reps build Strength and Muscle; 8-12 is considered the Prime of Building Muscle but doesn't develop Strength as fast. Anything over 12 is just endurance training and warm up sets. 5x5 is all you need. 3 months and only gained 14 pounds is pretty good btw for being natty. Are you new to working out?

I worked out for about a year but it was all isolated machine lifts with this home gym I bought. From start to end I was lifting the same amount of weight... really sad... but I also started at 88kg and dropped my weight to 64kg while I believe maintaining most my muscle.

Natty? Well if I gained 14 pounds of fat I'm not too happy -.- and I think that's the case. Those reps you listed seem about right, but I read muscular failure is something to aim for on the set to ensure you're going harder than the previous workout.

 

[JoeMyBro]

OK,
1. what is your diet like?

2. increasing weight on side laterals and db curls its pointless, increase 5lbs every week on deadlifts, squats, barbell rows, strict military press and barbell benchpress.
This is one of the best beginner routines and the main focus is increasing weight on those 5 lifts. 5x5 Calculator

3. make sure your resting enough between sets, 2-3mins on heavy compound lifts, 90secs-2mins on smaller single joint lifts like laterals.

4. make sure your sleeping enough.

5. now I dont mean this as an offence but Im gonna say this in the nicest way possible, you dont even need to be bb curling IMO you need to just build up your strength on the 5 lifts mensioned in number 3, Im 14 years old and I bench more than twice your weight lol, I understand your a beginner but going about your training doing back and biceps is the wrong way, do full body workouts just like the one in that workout program I posted above, as an alternate you could do something like this.

Workout A
Squats 3 sets 5-8 reps
Deadlift - work up to 1 set 5 reps
Dips 5 sets 8 reps
Chinups 3 sets 8-10 reps

Workout B
Flat Barbell Benchpress 3 sets 5-8 reps
Dumbell Pullover 3 sets 8-10 reps
Barbell Rows 3-4 sets 8 reps
Strict Military press 3 sets 8 reps

You would then alternate that throughuot a 3 day split, week 1 would go workout A on monday, B on wednesday and then A again on friday, week two would be B,A,B and so on.

Thats the routine I did when I started lifting, SaiBoT came up with it for me and it worked great.

The three main things to concentrate on right now for you will be eating big, lifting big, sleeping big.

Make sense? Shoot whatever other questions you have at me bro

Hmm ok...

1). My diet is like this most of the time:

Meal 1: Cereal + Whey Protein Shake in Soy Milk (I'm lactose intolerant so soy is my option)
Meal 2: Oatmeal + Tuna in olive oil
Meal 3: Oatmeal + Whey Protein Shake in Soy Milk
Meal 4: Oatmeal + Tuna in olive oil
Meal 5: Oatmeal + Tuna in olive oil
Meal 6: Toast + Peanut Butter + (sometimes) flaxseed oil+extra virgin olive oil combo + Whey Protein Shake in Soy Milk

(yes very plain... on workout days I'd have about half a chicken with some white bread and tomatoe sauce (to help it go down lol) post workout)


2). So basically I just needed to focus on increasing the weight on the big exercises, that the smaller ones are virtually impossible to increase the weight very quickly?


3). Yeah I rested plenty probably about that amount in fact but I never really thought about it.


4). 8-10 hours most nights.


5). Well that's the thing I could never understand why my strength doesn't go up. If that's because of my exercise choices, then I can understand, but my routine does involve those big lifts. I have my own gym at home, so I'm limited to what I have. Plus I workout solo so some exercises just aren't safe in my opinion my friend dropped the barbell on him when he did that it was a close call.

Ok I guess it's time I ditch my routine take a week off and re-evaluate things such as workout this new routine. All the knowledge I read from seans workout makes sense though, and it focuses around those big lifts, but it doesn't mention about strength increase and what to focus on lifting heavier with. I have a feeling if I stepped out into the gym again I could probably lift another 5kg heavier if I tried.

Here is my progress with squats the last 9 weeks of training:

(note, I never change the weight for each new set during the same workout day)

(prior weeks I was practising form mostly at lower weight levels)
40kg: 10 + 8 reps
50kg: 7 + 8 reps
60kg: 7 + 7 reps
65kg: 7 + 7 reps
70kg: 7 + 7 reps
75kg: 7 + 7 reps
75kg: 7 + 7 reps (I believe I did the same weight this week, because the prev. week my back hurt from 75kg so I wasn't gutzy enough to increase the weight)
77.5kg: 5 + 5 reps
80kg: 7 + 7 reps

Ok... so... the thing is i'm not sure if I could lift 80kg from the beginning, or if this was actual progress. I know I started really low and I'm sure I wasn't that weak. But I remember since I started lifting 70kg it felt damn heavy.

Deadlifts was about the same but I didn't have wrist straps so I kept dropping the weight and it stopped me from attempting to lift heavier. Last I lifted was 80kg and it was definately heavy.

I actually do dumbbell rows, not barbell rows. Is this a big issue? -- I had the same problem though with dropping the weight and controlling form only got up to 25kg x 2 for this one. (that is, 25kg per dumbbell not 25kg for 2 reps lol).

Barbell rows is weird. I have a question about this one. Do I focus on lifting heavier or should I make sure I can lift it all the way up into my stomach before progressing with the weight? I can do 50kg now it started at like 45kg. I have no clue if that's strength increase or if I could actually lift 50kg but only went for 45kg because of form or something. I have trouble lifting it all the way up after maybe 4-5 reps so I never knew if I should be increasing the weight on it?

I have not been doing "strict military press" - 1). It wasn't mentioned in my home workout options and 2). I had alook at it, it doesn't looks safe to do solo?? whats your opinion??

 

[JoeMyBro]

extra nailed this one. look into the 5x5 or the 3x5 program and i wouldnt touch those calipers again. they may be consistent but they are off alot. at 8%bf you wouldnt bother talking to us. a sorta rule of thumb is most guys see abs around 12-13%.

personally id start with the 3x5 and run that routine for 4months atleast its 3 lifts a day so if u feel u have a little extra to give throw in some dips/lat raises/leg press and you will grow.
how is your diet? getting 1-1.25g of protein per lb thats a good way to start. alot of guys notice a huge gain when they up it to 2-3 but just starting out hitting that mark will work well.

I think Sean's workout routine is actually good and I don't think its the problem. It involves 4/5 of those big compound exercises you guys have been mentioning, yet I haven't gotten to the point where I push myself to lift heavier. Perhaps all that is required of me is to keep going at this point and focus on those lifts, whilst doing all the other exercises as well as of course.

Here I'll outline my home workout for you guys to see:

Day 1: LEGS/ABS
Barbell Full Squats - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Dumbbell Lunges - 6 sets (3 sets each side), 5-7 reps
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing One-Legged Dumbbell Calf Raises 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated Barbell Calf Raises - 1 sets, 5-7 reps
Weighted Crunches - 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Weighted Leg Raises - 1 sets, 10-12 reps


Day 2: CHEST/SHOULDERS/TRICEPS
Flat Dumbbell Press - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Incline Dumbbell Press - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Dips - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Press - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing Dumbbell Side Laterals - 1 sets, 10-12 reps
Dumbbell Skull Crushers - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Overhead Dumbbell Extensions - 1 sets, 5-7 reps


Day 3: BACK/BICEPS/FOREARMS
Deadlifts - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Bent Over Barbell Rows - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Bent Over Dumbbell Rows - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Barbell Shrugs - 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Barbell Curls - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curls - 1 sets, 5-7 reps
Barbell Wrist Curls - 1 sets, 10-12 reps


So... are you guys SURE I should change my routine from this? Apparently this is the best workout I can get (safely) with a home workout with the equipment I have. I don't have a pull up bar for pull-ups for example.

 

[JoeMyBro]

By the way guys, could you help me determine the accuracy of the skinfold caliper with your personal judgements? Here is my after photos for december 30th last year, when I recorded at 7% body fat:

Link: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4024/happyjla.jpg

(by the way I have scoliosis if you are wondering why I have a curve in my back... it looks worse in other pictures lol)

...So, for example if you guys feel in general it is 9% bodyfat or higher, I will know when it says 7% its probably 2% higher -- just for an estimate since an estimate is better than nothing to track progress...

 

[c24k]

I worked out for about a year but it was all isolated machine lifts with this home gym I bought. From start to end I was lifting the same amount of weight... really sad... but I also started at 88kg and dropped my weight to 64kg while I believe maintaining most my muscle.

Natty? Well if I gained 14 pounds of fat I'm not too happy -.- and I think that's the case. Those reps you listed seem about right, but I read muscular failure is something to aim for on the set to ensure you're going harder than the previous workout.

You need fat to really build muscle. If your really low in BF% which you look ALOT less than your saying. You can only build so much muscle without bulking up. Guys that are huge on here get big from eating alot and doing heavy workouts to bulk up (yes some use gear but there are those that don't). Once you have bulked up is when you 'cut' and define your muscles. Thats what your going for. I worked out for years before i realized this. Eat big to get big lift big to get big. Once your around or over 200 is a GREAT time to cut and tone up your muscles but from your starting point you don't really have much to work with and neither do I. i used to be alot bigger but stuff happened. Anyways we are roughly the same. I'm 6'0 20 and weigh 163-164. i'm bulking up to 230 and then i'll cut down. I have a ways to go but its that 230 and then cutting that brings about the muscles. I'm a hardgainer like you and i have to eat constantly and i saw your six meals and your not eating to bulk your eating to 'cut' you'll need alot more stuff. Get some fish and steak, beef, you don't HAVE to eat clean btw. Thats an option. When your bulking pretty much anything goes. Its when your cutting and toning your body is when you need to eat clean and be on a calorie deficit. Just eat, eat, eat. Hell eat Mc Donalds if you have to I do. 2 double cheese burgers and 2 medium fries is over 1200 calories. Just try not to eat too much fast food its not good for your heart in the long run. Just eat and eat. Also NO CARDIO! This actually applies to hardgainers, we burn calories like there is no tomorrow and doing cardio just hurts you when your trying to bulk. 5x5 and be generally relaxed throughout the rest of your day. It will take some time but if you work hard as you can it will lessen the time.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Sorry I don't understand why you need fat to build muscle. Fat does not turn into muscle. You merely gain fat whilst trying to gain muscle because you need a calorie excess, right? I would love to hear reasons for why fat is physically required to actually develop muscle considering there are people who start at really low body fat % and build up significant amounts of muscle without putting on much fat (and I'm referring to all-natural bodybuilding here).

I started at 88kg and I learned it was best to cut first since I would only gain additional fat at the same time. There doesn't seem to be any reason (that I have heard of) why being "fatter" would assist in muscle growth.

Eating clean will help to maintain muscle, since eating un-clean generally means eating foods which are damaging to muscle cells and actually cause your body to become catabolic instead of anabolic (which you want). I know its optional but I'm used to eating more "healthy" now so I have absolutely no problem with it... in fact I'd prefer to eat healthy and minimize fat gain whilst building muscle.

Although I eat clean, I am also eating in a calorie excess of 500 per day. I know this because I calorie count everything I eat. It's possible theres a margin of error, but I am definately gaining "weight" so its not an issue I am having. I just want to be gaining "muscle" weight instead of "fat" weight which tells me something is wrong with my workouts. At this point my conclusion is that should continue my current routine but attempt to add 5% weight to each of the large compound movements. If I cannot lift heavier than I'll be looking into changing my routine.

If I do cardio, I eat more food to make up for it. Say, if I did 1 hour of walking I only need to eat another 200 calories to make up for it. I do not work myself, and my family will not buy steaks and such for me to eat. My main sources of protein is tuna (lean protein), whey (lean protein) and chicken (lean protein - skin not eaten).

Anyway... the only thing I can tell at this point is that I need to attempt to lift 85kg this week, and the following week 90kg. The fact is everything I've been doing SHOULD result in me being able to lift heavier.. unless I am missing something? My routine is fine - it contains all the big exercises, and in fact enthasizes on them, so I do not see a reason why the workout itself could be the problem here. Maybe this first 3 months had to happen like this, so I could get accustomed to what weight I should start at, and now I'm at the point where I need to push myself and really dig deep with the big exercises. To be fair I think I need to give it another week to make sure I'm improving, because I have definately been able to lift 5% heavier in the last two weeks, but only on the big exercises... which is the main thing I was saying about how I cant lift heavier -- I was actually refering to the smaller exercises like barbell curls, and from you guys I've learned that I shouldn't be focusing on improving with that so much, but rather the big movements which will build up my strength in those exercises in time.

 

[c24k]

1.) Sorry I don't understand why you need fat to build muscle. Fat does not turn into muscle. You merely gain fat whilst trying to gain muscle because you need a calorie excess, right? I would love to hear reasons for why fat is physically required to actually develop muscle considering there are people who start at really low body fat % and build up significant amounts of muscle without putting on much fat (and I'm referring to all-natural bodybuilding here).

2.)I started at 88kg and I learned it was best to cut first since I would only gain additional fat at the same time. There doesn't seem to be any reason (that I have heard of) why being "fatter" would assist in muscle growth.

3.) Eating clean will help to maintain muscle, since eating un-clean generally means eating foods which are damaging to muscle cells and actually cause your body to become catabolic instead of anabolic (which you want). I know its optional but I'm used to eating more "healthy" now so I have absolutely no problem with it... in fact I'd prefer to eat healthy and minimize fat gain whilst building muscle.

4.)Although I eat clean, I am also eating in a calorie excess of 500 per day. I know this because I calorie count everything I eat. It's possible theres a margin of error, but I am definately gaining "weight" so its not an issue I am having. I just want to be gaining "muscle" weight instead of "fat" weight which tells me something is wrong with my workouts. At this point my conclusion is that should continue my current routine but attempt to add 5% weight to each of the large compound movements. If I cannot lift heavier than I'll be looking into changing my routine.

5.) If I do cardio, I eat more food to make up for it. Say, if I did 1 hour of walking I only need to eat another 200 calories to make up for it. I do not work myself, and my family will not buy steaks and such for me to eat. My main sources of protein is tuna (lean protein), whey (lean protein) and chicken (lean protein - skin not eaten).

6.)Anyway... the only thing I can tell at this point is that I need to attempt to lift 85kg this week, and the following week 90kg. The fact is everything I've been doing SHOULD result in me being able to lift heavier.. unless I am missing something? My routine is fine - it contains all the big exercises, and in fact enthasizes on them, so I do not see a reason why the workout itself could be the problem here. Maybe this first 3 months had to happen like this, so I could get accustomed to what weight I should start at, and now I'm at the point where I need to push myself and really dig deep with the big exercises. To be fair I think I need to give it another week to make sure I'm improving, because I have definately been able to lift 5% heavier in the last two weeks, but only on the big exercises... which is the main thing I was saying about how I cant lift heavier -- I was actually refering to the smaller exercises like barbell curls, and from you guys I've learned that I shouldn't be focusing on improving with that so much, but rather the big movements which will build up my strength in those exercises in time.

1.) Alot of those people were genetically pre-determined to gain alot of muscle. If your an ectomorph or have a small frame with nothing to work with where else is it going to come from? I'm speaking from personal experience. I spent years i was only able to get so much without bulking up. Last year i started bulking got to 180 was working towards 210. But anyways no fat is not a necessity to build muscle. It still has alot with who you are genetically, There will always be a limit on how much muscle you can build that goes for everyone.

2.) I've heard that before. In my case it did nothing. When i started bulking and putting on weight is when i started to actually notice a difference and i didn't eat clean. For me it really made a difference. It just might for you to its worth a try.

3.) True but bulking doesn't necessarily have to be your body constantly staying in a constate state of anabolism. Eating un-clean also doesn't make you completely catabolic. Again personal experience. Staying in an Anabolic state from what i've always seen is the bodybuilders route when cutting. I've seen it for bulking to BUT that doesn't mean it works for everyone. Everyone is different. Listening to your body. I offer what i do cuz i see you where i was and i think your a hardgainer so i'm telling you what has worked for me and some others. you don't have to listen to me.

4.) I'd still go with 5x5 here. I think its your ticket. I won't say anything else about diets. since your worried about gaining fat.

5.) About your cardio walking isn't too much of a cardio exercise i meant things like jogging/running/eliptical machines/riding bicycles. How many grams of protein are you getting? Try to get at least 1.7g per pound of bodyweight.

6.) When you are working out how exactly are you going to 85kg? Are you starting at a low weight and progressively work up to 85kg, or do you warm up and jump straight to 85kg and work with that amount of weight only? And yes don't worry about isolation exercises. Just drop them really, you can still do them of course but put it at the end of your exercise, after everything else. its the big compound exercises taht puts on the weight and mass. Also using the barbell u bench with to curl weight adds good mass to your arms.

 

[dabuffguy]

Your whole diet is oatmeal, canned tuna and protein shakes? That's your problem right there bro. WTF?

Eat red meat and chicken, and eat way more carbs. Canned tuna is blech, red meat is for putting on real mass.

You need to eat FRUITS AND VEGETABLES!!!!, sweet potatoes, brown rice and a larger variety of complex carbs altogether and even some simple carbs. Oatmeal is great for breakfast, just not 5 times a day. Your body needs those vitamins and minerals coming from natural sources. You are nutrient deficient in your diet.


Tuna is low in calories. Overall, your diet really just sucks. I mean that in a neutral way. I'm not saying it to be mean, but critically it's totally true. Each one of your meals is too low in calories, mainly protein, and doesn't have enough nutrients in it.




What does your post workout meal look like? Or do you even have one? What is your pre-workout meal like?


15 pounds in 3 months is not bad. I don't know what's wrong with that. That's a decent weight gain.


Your BF is not near 8%. Don't worry about it anyways right now. Focus on size because you are lacking there.


How is the intensity in your workouts? Do you hit failure in your lifts, or do you just do your 5-7 reps per set and not push it hard?

You have to push it hard lifting. If you are not sore, you didn't lift hard enough.

Have you done the same routine for 3 months straight? If so, change it up because your body needs different growth stimulation. Increase your rep ranges and focus on hypertrophy for a while.

And do some cardio. It's good for you and helps muscle recovery. You don't have to do a lot, just 20-30 minutes 2x per week. The "NO CARDIO" notion is total bullshit. Just do it. It's not that much, and if you have lots of protein in your system while you are doing it, you aren't going to lose any muscle mass doing it twice a week for 20-30 minutes.

 

[c24k]

Your whole diet is oatmeal, canned tuna and protein shakes? That's your problem right there bro. WTF?

Eat red meat and chicken, and eat way more carbs. Canned tuna is blech, red meat is for putting on real mass.

You need to eat FRUITS AND VEGETABLES!!!!, sweet potatoes, brown rice and a larger variety of complex carbs altogether and even some simple carbs. Oatmeal is great for breakfast, just not 5 times a day. Your body needs those vitamins and minerals coming from natural sources. You are nutrient deficient in your diet.


Tuna is low in calories. Overall, your diet really just sucks. I mean that in a neutral way. I'm not saying it to be mean, but critically it's totally true. Each one of your meals is too low in calories, mainly protein, and doesn't have enough nutrients in it.




What does your post workout meal look like? Or do you even have one? What is your pre-workout meal like?


15 pounds in 3 months is not bad. I don't know what's wrong with that. That's a decent weight gain.


Your BF is not near 8%. Don't worry about it anyways right now. Focus on size because you are lacking there.


How is the intensity in your workouts? Do you hit failure in your lifts, or do you just do your 5-7 reps per set and not push it hard?

You have to push it hard lifting. If you are not sore, you didn't lift hard enough.

Have you done the same routine for 3 months straight? If so, change it up because your body needs different growth stimulation. Increase your rep ranges and focus on hypertrophy for a while.

And do some cardio. It's good for you and helps muscle recovery. You don't have to do a lot, just 20-30 minutes 2x per week. The "NO CARDIO" notion is total bullshit. Just do it. It's not that much, and if you have lots of protein in your system while you are doing it, you aren't going to lose any muscle mass doing it twice a week for 20-30 minutes.

i meant INTENSE CARDIO, at the time i didn't realize he meant he just walks, i thought he did stuff like running and jogging or riding a bicycle. I never do those for cardio trying to bulk. From MY experience and from friends i know doing cardio like i meant makes a difference, just saying no offence meant or anything.

 

[JoeMyBro]

@ c24k

I think I've got a medium-large frame. I was overweight in the first place. I have no problem gaining weight... so far it seems I just have a problem building muscle lol... but I think I'm homing in on the reasons why this is... genetics, yeah that's true. But I'm not going to use that as an excuse got to find my own way here to build muscle.

As far as cardio goes, I just go for walks. I used to run but it messes up my calves. I also swim and do laps when its not freezing.

@ dabuffguy

The problem I find with adding vegetables to my diet is I have to eat a significantly large amount to get any calories out of it. Also, these days I hear its all void of much nutrients anyway. I was looking into some kind of alternative to it which contains the nutrients I require. Currently I have a multivitamin but I think it's not enough you're right. I'm kicking myself here to ignoring my nutrients I just need some ideas so I'm not eating 24/7 chewing down mass amounts of veggies to get little nutrients out of it.

My meals are not too low in calories I eat larger portions than you think. The ONLY thing I can pick up on is the lacking in nutrients, but I always though a multivitamin would do fine... I really hate veggies to be honest yet alone the amount I'd have to eat just to get some decent calories from it.

Red meat... I actually tried to get some red meat trust me but my parents pay for all my food and they won't buy it for me so yeah... I'm looking into lean red meats though it is in my todo list. I don't see the difference between eating a red meat though. The nutrients inside are the main difference but I guess I've always neglected nutrients.

Yeah I forgot to mention, 15 pounds was probably more close to 11 pounds, since the first week shot up by 4 pounds I think that was probably just water weight because I started creatine. Plus... if I gain 15/11 pounds of fat, so what? My goal is muscle. Fat gain I'm going to have to burn off later anyway so there's nothing good about it as far as I am concerned.

At first I lifted just until 7 reps and didn't push it but the last few weeks I've been definately pushing it... I aim for failure or one rep before failure if I'm afraid of breaking my back under the deadlifts or something... gotta prevent injury thats all. But yeah I'm pushing it now.

That you mention about changing the routine... that's a myth I've read. Your muscles can't think for themselves... if anything, the routine thing is a mental thing or a placebo affect I reckon. Here's a link, read myth #3.

 

[JoeMyBro]

@ dabuffguy

What vegetable/fruit combination would be best and how much do I need? I'm going to commit to eating them, even if it means eating a sever amount... it's fine. I'd rather build muscle than always regret it just because I hate vegetables.

So far I've found this resource defining the top 10 most nutritious vegetables.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I'm trying to find a good high-potency multivitamin since my current one is just a blackmores mens daily multivitamin. Do you think this one is good? link: https://www.nutritionwarehouse.com.au/Multi-VMA-by-BSC-Body-Science-High-Potency-Multi-Vitamin-and-A-pr-11.html

Still can't figure out when, what and how much vegetables/fruit I need in my diet lol

 

[dabuffguy]

Okay, then tell me your portions. I can't imagine anyone eating 10 cups of oatmeal a day. Multivitamins are to ensure you are getting enough, it doesn't replace nutritious food. It's supplementation, which means "in addition to" not "a replacement for".[/B]



Red meat... I actually tried to get some red meat trust me but my parents pay for all my food and they won't buy it for me so yeah... I'm looking into lean red meats though it is in my todo list. I don't see the difference between eating a red meat though. The nutrients inside are the main difference but I guess I've always neglected nutrients.

You are almost 21, time to pay for your own food if you need to. Bodybuilding is a lifestyle, and you are letting it be hindered because mommy and daddy won't buy it for you? Go buy it yourself then. Red meat per/lb costs less than a pound of canned tuna. You don't have to buy the $15/lb tenderloin cut to get good food in. Lean ground beef, and the $2.99/lb sirloins do the trick.

Yeah I forgot to mention, 15 pounds was probably more close to 11 pounds, since the first week shot up by 4 pounds I think that was probably just water weight because I started creatine. Plus... if I gain 15/11 pounds of fat, so what? My goal is muscle. Fat gain I'm going to have to burn off later anyway so there's nothing good about it as far as I am concerned.

Still, 11 pounds is pretty good. Look at how much weight gain that is in a years time at the same pace. 45 lbs. Bodybuilding is a marathon. It takes years to build a big strong body, not a few months.

If you are in calorie surplus to gain muscle, some fat gain automaticaly comes with it. It is just part of the deal and it's normal. You don't have to get a huge gut and gained a ton of fat, but if you gain a little fat it means you are getting in enough calories and you are bulding muscle. Unless you are on steroids, you aren't going to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. And I really hope you don't use them because you don't need them.



At first I lifted just until 7 reps and didn't push it but the last few weeks I've been definately pushing it... I aim for failure or one rep before failure if I'm afraid of breaking my back under the deadlifts or something... gotta prevent injury thats all. But yeah I'm pushing it now.


Yes, you have to push it HARD. You need to be hitting failure. Do a higher rep rage for a while. Like 10-12 on your upper body lifts. Deadlifts can stay at a lower rep range.

That you mention about changing the routine... that's a myth I've read. Your muscles can't think for themselves... if anything, the routine thing is a mental thing or a placebo affect I reckon. Here's a link, read myth #3.


I'm not talking about doing a different excercise, I'm talking about changing your rep ranges, like I said in the post.
Also, you don't need to do the same excercises first and last. some days do inclines first. You'll be able to do more weight and reps in that lift and helps development.
Also, all you use are dumbbells on chest day. I usually use dumbbells too, but using the barbell will allow you to use a heavier weight. Also, you are not doing enough volume. Do more sets. You can do more sets than 8 on yur chest. It should atleast be 12. Do 4 sets of flat, and 4 sets of incline, and atleast 3 sets of dips. Do more work, you aren't doing enough.


On back day, there are no pull-ups or pull-downs for lat work? You need to do some of those.

You only do 2 sets of deadlifts? That's not enough. Save them for last and exhaust all your energy on those. 4-5 sets.

In fact, looking at all of your back excercises again, you are NOT doing enough work. You are only do 2 sets per lift on back? You should at very least be doing 3, and 4 is even better. You aren't lifting enough altogether. Like I said, you need to lift hard and you need to push the boundaries. 2 sets per lift is not going to get you to where you want to be.

You are doing 5 reps per set on an isolation excercise like curls? That's pointles bro. Do high reps on isolation excercises like curls and triceps extensions.

Continuing from my reply, you are not doing enough sets and reps bro.

2 sets of 5-7 reps = 10-14 toal reps on an excercise. That is NOTHING. You will never get anywhere doing this.

If you are doing 5-7 reps, you need to be doing atleast 5 sets per movement. If you do a higher rep range like you need to do for the next while, you should be doing 4 sets per excercise.


I'll copy and paste your routine and show you what it should look like for the next 8 weeks.

Day 1: LEGS/ABS
Barbell Full Squats - 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Dumbbell Lunges - 6 sets (3 sets each side), 5-7 reps
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing One-Legged Dumbbell Calf Raises 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated Barbell Calf Raises - 2 sets, 10 reps
Weighted Crunches - 3 sets, to failure
Weighted Leg Raises - 3 sets, to failure


Day 2: CHEST/SHOULDERS/TRICEPS
Flat Dumbbell Press - 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Incline Dumbbell Press - 4 sets, 10-12 reps (alternating incline and flat press as the first excercise each day you lift chest. Get in barbell work on flat bench too.)
Dips - 3 sets, 8-10reps
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Press - 4 sets, 10 reps
Standing Dumbbell Side Laterals - 4 sets, to failure each set.
Dumbbell Skull Crushers - 3 sets, 10 reps
Overhead Dumbbell Extensions - 2 sets, 8-10 reps


Day 3: BACK/BICEPS/FOREARMS
Deadlifts - 5 sets, 5 reps (5X5) (do these last)
Bent Over Barbell Rows - 4 sets, 8-10 reps
Pull-Ups - 4 sets to failure
Bent Over Dumbbell Rows - 3 sets, 12-15 reps
Barbell Shrugs - 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Barbell Curls - 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curls - 1 sets, 5-7 reps
Barbell Wrist Curls - 1 sets, 10-12 reps




So that is more what you routine needs to look lke. More volume is what you need to grow.


Okay, now let's get your diet better and do this routine and I guarantee you will see so much more improvement in the coming weeks than what you have been doing.

 

[dabuffguy]

@ dabuffguy

What vegetable/fruit combination would be best and how much do I need? I'm going to commit to eating them, even if it means eating a sever amount... it's fine. I'd rather build muscle than always regret it just because I hate vegetables.

So far I've found this resource defining the top 10 most nutritious vegetables.

Get the reccomended 3-4 servings of each everyday. Apples, berries(blueberries, strawberries raspberries), leafy vegetables, broccoli and aspragus.

 

[JoeMyBro]

1). The thing is I read that if you go to failure you actually only need one set per muscle group, and any additional sets is just wasting your bodies precious energy reserves to complete the workout at 100% intensity? I've read this from two seperate sources, one being Sean Nalewanyj's program and Vince Delmonte's program. I'm also not on steroids or anything like that... Here are two other resources I found just then on the topic of how many sets:

How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/6-3-2006-98157.asphttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/strength-training/AN00893

Well... it's not that I don't trust you, but there's so much info out there I need to think for myself too and ask questions.

2). Also, I take about 1 hour by the time I finish already for each of those workouts. If I add additional sets it will take longer and I'm not supposed to go longer than 1 hour?

3). Do you know if frozen mixed vegetables are decent or do I really need to buy everything fresh and combine it?

 

[dabuffguy]

1). The thing is I read that if you go to failure you actually only need one set per muscle group,


That's crap, straight up. Take it from a fairly experienced lifter, this is complete horsecrap bro. You can't take what you've read and assume everything is right. Especially from mayo-clinic dot com or buzzle. WTF do they know, for real?
You have to get the experience and decide what works for you. Obviously, what you are doing now is not working for you, and frankly after imagining the actual amount of work you do per session, it wouldn't work for anyone. There is not enough lifting going on altogether.

You watch any video where a bodybuilder OR a power lifter is lifting, they ALL do multiple sets of the same excercise and push the limits to failure on most occasions.


and any additional sets is just wasting your bodies precious energy reserves to complete the workout at 100% intensity?

No, what additional sets do is waste your body's precious energy to give that same muscle more growth stimulation.

I've read this from two seperate sources, one being Sean Nalewanyj's program and Vince Delmonte's program. I'm also not on steroids or anything like that... Here are two other resources I found just then on the topic of how many sets:

How Many Exercises and Sets Do I Perform for my Strength Training?

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/6-3-2006-98157.asphttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/strength-training/AN00893

Well... it's not that I don't trust you, but there's so much info out there I need to think for myself too and ask questions.


Asking questions is great. Learn and understand all you can. However, take people's suggestions who you know actually get in a gym and trash the iron, try their suggestions and over time you will come to know what works for you. Some things I suggest may not work the best for you, and some things may be highly beneficial to you. I can PROMISE you right now that doing more reps and sets, as well as greater intesnity, will benefit you right now.

2). Also, I take about 1 hour by the time I finish already for each of those workouts. If I add additional sets it will take longer and I'm not supposed to go longer than 1 hour?

You just need to take less time between sets.
I can pump out 7 sets of flat bench, 4 sets of incline, 4 sets of flies, 3 sets of dips, 4 sets of triceps, and every single one of those sets is to failure at 10+ reps, in 1 hour. I wouldn't go past 1 hour and 10 minutes. Cortisol levels rise too much.

Also, dumb bell curls, tricep extensions and other piddly excercises take a back seat to your important lifts like the bench, rows, deads and squats. Ensure that you do all of those. If you have time at the end for curls, then go for it.
If not, wrap it up they won't do much for you right now anyways, they are NOT a priority lift. Doing the big heavy lifts stimulate the muscle growth. Once you add on some good size, then focus on the details.



3). Do you know if frozen mixed vegetables are decent or do I really need to buy everything fresh and combine it?

They are mediocre. Fresh is always desired above frozen.

The very article you linked says this: "during bodybuilding, for example, or to enhance your performance in certain sports — adding additional sets may be beneficial"


Wow, what a concept! And I would change the "may be beneficial" to "absolutely beneficial."


And you know what gets me the most about the article? This: "For most people, there's little evidence to support the superiority of multiset strength training"


That is a down right lie and is a garbage statement. There are 1000's of examples of evidence walking around on 2 tree trunk legs and have 18+ inch arms and can bench 400+ lbs that would beg to differ with this crappy statement. What a load of garbage.



Bro, 1 set to failure doesn't even make you break a sweat. That's pussy lifting. You think any bodybuilder goes in there, does 1 set to failure, and moves to the next excercise? NO!!!
You would finish your lifting in 15 minutes. Nobody does that. Well, nobody that has some results to show for their work anyways.


Look at the guys that are big. They ALL do multiple sets, and many of those sets are to failure.


The other article is just as gay bro. Go ask any serious powerlifter or bodybuilder and they will tell you that doing "1 set to failure is all you need" is complete and utter garbage.

They use statements like "Evidence suggests that..." Yet they don't post the clinical studies held.




Yeah? Well, guess what? The evidence of my training theories suggests this:






Now you can't tell me that any 1 of those guys does 1 set to failure per excercise. NOT 1 BRO!! NOT 1!!!!!



Trust me on this. If you do what I have told you religiously in training and in diet, and you get little results, I will buy you a tub of protein of your choice fro SupplementKingdom. Promise.

Push the limits, lift hard and eat more diverse foods. Go buy your own meat if you have to. Don't let anything limit you. Get things done that have to be done if you want results.






Next, let's break down your diet better.

At 160 lbs, you need 3000-3500 calories a day and 250-300 grams of protein daily. You ARE going to gain a little BF, but it's easy to get rid of. It's not a concern right now. You said you wanted to look muscular, so let's build those muscles. The only way to build lots of muscle is to eat in a calorie surplus. Gaining body fat is a byproduct or "side effect" of excess calories. It's necessary. But if you gain a very significant amount of fat(like 15 lbs or more), you can back off the carbs a little bit.

Remember this: Diet is where the majoirty of your results come from. "You are what you eat" is very real in this sense.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Ok... starting tomorrow I will do your revised workouts you wrote out for me.

However you say I need about 3000-3500 calories per day and...

I've been eating 2700 calories a day, and 2800 on workout days. But just now i've been reading the No-Nonsense Muscle Building e-book and he recommends to consume a VERY large amount of calories. For example, I would require 4300 calories per day...

Here is the calculator I am linked to: Calorie Calculator

I select Advanced Weight Gain, because he recommends going all out, and then cutting down in order to truly gain any size. Saying that, if you do it progressively (conservatively) you will be lucky to gain 5-10 lbs muscle per year instead of the 20 lbs if you bulk up properly and cut down afterward to remove the fat gain.

In the calculator I enter 163.14 lbs as my weight, male, advanced Weight Gain, 8.6% body fat, light activity level and yeah I'm supposed to eat 4300 calories... does this sound accurate to you? I think it's a bit intense that's another 1500 calories from what I already eat daily... yikes... lol

Still, I am willing to do so just wanting to hear you guys opinions. I am determined to gain muscle but I need to be sure I gain most of that weight in muscle so that I don't wind up losing all my muscle on the way down again (cutting phase).

 

[dabuffguy]

Ok... starting tomorrow I will do your revised workouts you wrote out for me.

However you say I need about 3000-3500 calories per day and...

I've been eating 2700 calories a day, and 2800 on workout days. But just now i've been reading the No-Nonsense Muscle Building e-book and he recommends to consume a VERY large amount of calories. For example, I would require 4300 calories per day...

Here is the calculator I am linked to: Calorie Calculator

I select Advanced Weight Gain, because he recommends going all out, and then cutting down in order to truly gain any size. Saying that, if you do it progressively (conservatively) you will be lucky to gain 5-10 lbs muscle per year instead of the 20 lbs if you bulk up properly and cut down afterward to remove the fat gain.

In the calculator I enter 163.14 lbs as my weight, male, advanced Weight Gain, 8.6% body fat, light activity level and yeah I'm supposed to eat 4300 calories... does this sound accurate to you? I think it's a bit intense that's another 1500 calories from what I already eat daily... yikes... lol

Still, I am willing to do so just wanting to hear you guys opinions. I am determined to gain muscle but I need to be sure I gain most of that weight in muscle so that I don't wind up losing all my muscle on the way down again (cutting phase).

4300 calories is overkill bro for your weight. 3500 is plenty for you right now. Once you gain more weight, then up the calories. Get in 3500 calories a day, 1200 of it coming from protein (300grams).

That calculator says I need 5921 calories to gain good weight. That's BS, it's way too high for me. Online calculators suck for the most part.

And if you cut right, you aren't going to lose a bunch of muscle on the way down no matter how much extra BF you have.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I'm going to aim for 3500 per day now.

This week I went from 73.4kg to 73.7kg (I measure myself when I wake up so its most consistent).

I suppose I need to be aiming for more like 1kg gain per week at least in order for any to be muscle and actually have strength gains?

I forgot to mention but my routine has a Warmup period in which I do 5x5 of the first exercise only. It's like this:

First set: 10 reps at 50% of the weight I lift for the first exercise (so on day 1 workout, its squats).
Second: 6 reps at 60%
3rd: 4 reps at 70%
4th: 3 reps at 80%
5th: 1 rep at 90%

..and then I proceed with my workout.

Based on the new routine should I still do this warmup phase since I'm doing additional sets+reps now? I have a workout to do today so hopefully you can answer me before I get into it but if not I'll just do the warmup anyway.

Also, since I'm doing more sets+reps now, should I do less weight since before I lifted 80kg at 5-7 reps and pretty much failure on the 7th rep. I suppose for today I'll aim for 85kg (my planned increase of about 5% total weight) and if I am unable to do extra sets/reps I'll lower it??

I really appreciate all the help your giving me I can't wait to see my muscles explode hehe

 

[dabuffguy]

I'm going to aim for 3500 per day now.

This week I went from 73.4kg to 73.7kg (I measure myself when I wake up so its most consistent).

I suppose I need to be aiming for more like 1kg gain per week at least in order for any to be muscle and actually have strength gains?


No, just eat the 3500 calories daily. I wouldn't expect a certain amount of weight gain each week. You'll gain the weight if you eat the calories.


I forgot to mention but my routine has a Warmup period in which I do 5x5 of the first exercise only. It's like this:

First set: 10 reps at 50% of the weight I lift for the first exercise (so on day 1 workout, its squats).
Second: 6 reps at 60%
3rd: 4 reps at 70%
4th: 3 reps at 80%
5th: 1 rep at 90%

..and then I proceed with my workout.

Based on the new routine should I still do this warmup phase since I'm doing additional sets+reps now? I have a workout to do today so hopefully you can answer me before I get into it but if not I'll just do the warmup anyway.

Your warm up shouldn't tire you. Whatever you feel is adequate. I just do two sets myself. 3 if I lift heavy for low reps.

Also, since I'm doing more sets+reps now, should I do less weight since before I lifted 80kg at 5-7 reps and pretty much failure on the 7th rep. I suppose for today I'll aim for 85kg (my planned increase of about 5% total weight) and if I am unable to do extra sets/reps I'll lower it??

Well, yes. If you hit failure at 7 reps, you need to lighten the weight to achieve 10-12 reps, right? If your first set you achieve 10-12 reps, keep the same weight on the bar, and if you don't get 8-10, it's okay. The following set you will decrease weight to maintain a higher rep range.

I really appreciate all the help your giving me I can't wait to see my muscles explode hehe

Anytime bro.

Also, one thing I failed to mention which is critical.

Form.


Every excercise needs to be performed with proper form.

Mentally, your mind is focused on the muscles you are targeting to perform the movements.

On a bench press, the form is that the chest contracts to bring the bar up. The arms do not push the bar. The focus lies in the chest.

On a row, the focus is the back muscles contracting to bring the weight to your body. Your arms do NOT pull the weight up, the back pulls the weight. Or you can focus on the elbows being pulled back, but never the hands pulling the weight in.


Same goes for all muscle groups. The muscle that is the primary target is the only focus of your mind. This principle in and of itself will bring better muscle development. It's called Muscle-Mind connection. It is important to have this established.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I understand what you're saying about focusing on the targeted muscle group for the actual movements... its a little difficult to feel my chest pushing the dumbells up on bench for example, but I'll try my best yeah...

Considering form is important, if I cannot move the weight all the way to the top for example when doing bent over barbell rows I guess I should go lower weight until I can move it all the way with proper form yeah? It just feels too light that's all...

by the way I noticed you added pull-ups... I would love to do them I don't have anywhere to pull up on though I have limited equipment and we rent so I cant buy one of those door-frame pull up bars either. I think I had already put a replacement exercise in there can't remember which.. if you know another good replacement one that'd be awesome I'll throw that in.

Do you think its stupid doing bent over barbell rows, and then bent over dumbbell rows? I thought to myself this routine looks a bit silly doing virtually the same movement lol

 

[dabuffguy]

I understand what you're saying about focusing on the targeted muscle group for the actual movements... its a little difficult to feel my chest pushing the dumbells up on bench for example, but I'll try my best yeah...

Considering form is important, if I cannot move the weight all the way to the top for example when doing bent over barbell rows I guess I should go lower weight until I can move it all the way with proper form yeah? It just feels too light that's all...

by the way I noticed you added pull-ups... I would love to do them I don't have anywhere to pull up on though I have limited equipment and we rent so I cant buy one of those door-frame pull up bars either. I think I had already put a replacement exercise in there can't remember which.. if you know another good replacement one that'd be awesome I'll throw that in.

Do you think its stupid doing bent over barbell rows, and then bent over dumbbell rows? I thought to myself this routine looks a bit silly doing virtually the same movement lol

Not really bro, I think barbell rows and DB rows are different enough because DB allow you to get a better contraction on both sides and more direct contractions. I do DB rows on a slightly inclined bench to change the angle so it is between a flat row, and a shrug, but is really a row. For me, this has shown to give a better overall appearance, and balance to the back aesthetically.


for the chest, the muscle doesn't push. It conracts toward your sternum. The result is that the arms move forward.

Figure out however you have to think about it to make it work for you.

 

[JoeMyBro]

On day 3 how important is it to do Deadlifts last? I have the warmup sets first which are deadlifts and normally I would then do my deadlifts, but you suggest to do deadlifts at the end of the workout? Is there a reason for this and if so should I then do my warmups with a different exercise for that day?

 

[ExtraMile]

Just follow what dabuffguy said, no offence bro but everytime he gives you a full detailed answer you seem to come up with a problem and why it confuses you. If you are deadlifting last whats the point in doing deadlift warmups at the beginning? Do your deadlift warmups before your deadlifts then whack straight into your heavy sets just get the work done and do what dabuffguy is taking so long to explain to you!

 

[JoeMyBro]

I get that it must be annoying for people but if I have a question I ask it that's just who I am. I like to do things right the first time and figure out everything before I jump in half-assed.

I'll just do deadlifts at the beginning as usual I can't see any reason to leave it till the end that's kind of what I was talking about.

 

[ExtraMile]

I get that it must be annoying for people but if I have a question I ask it that's just who I am. I like to do things right the first time and figure out everything before I jump in half-assed.

I'll just do deadlifts at the beginning as usual I can't see any reason to leave it till the end that's kind of what I was talking about.

sorry bro I didnt mean it as a criticism, Im just like you to be fair, yeah I would say do your deadlift warm ups before your about to deadlift. Say you were gonna deadlift 315 for example, your deadlift session including warmups could go like this
135x5
225x5
285x5
315x5, x however many work sets u do

understand?

 

[JoeMyBro]

Yes... so my day 3 will look like this:

Warmups: Deadlifts 5x5 (from 50% add 10% per set of 5)
Deadlifts - 5 sets, 5 reps
Bent Over Barbell Rows - 4 sets, 8-10 reps
Pull-Ups - 4 sets to failure ---- sadly can't do this I don't have access to pull up bar or anything to hold on to I've looked
Bent Over Dumbbell Rows - 3 sets, 12-15 reps
Barbell Shrugs - 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Barbell Curls - 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curls - 1 sets, 5-7 reps
Barbell Wrist Curls - 1 sets, 10-12 reps

I'm going to start my workout in a couple hours today I'll let you guys know how it went overall.

 

[iggy]

you need to tweak your diet a bit. i have made a group that can help do that.
you need to eat a lot more also. and tuna is great, but too much mercury if its albacore.
also fish makes you smarter, but dabuffguy is right when he says red meat is the most anabolic food you can eat.

you need some eggs in the a.m., complex carbs, salmon, chicken, tons of veggies, orange roughy, milk, and to lift very, very hard.

PM me if you want to talk about anything and welcome to EF bro.

 

[dabuffguy]

you need to tweak your diet a bit. i have made a group that can help do that.
you need to eat a lot more also. and tuna is great, but too much mercury if its albacore.
also fish makes you smarter, but dabuffguy is right when he says red meat is the most anabolic food you can eat.

you need some eggs in the a.m., complex carbs, salmon, chicken, tons of veggies, orange roughy, milk, and to lift very, very hard.

PM me if you want to talk about anything and welcome to EF bro.

Hey, that's something I totally forgot bro. MILK! Easy calories with lots of protein. Duh!





And I say do deadlifts last because they should drain you of all your energy because th eamount of weight you are able to move, and doing them first leaves no energy for the rest of the workout.

 

[JoeMyBro]

OK GUYS... I finished the workout.

Yikes I actually vomited a tiny bit in my mouth when doing abs cause it was more exhausting than usual... as soon as I did those extra sets of squats it really k.o'd me...

I took an hour and 7 minutes to finish the workout. Here's the log of this workout, as well as last weeks workout maybe you can help me determine if I've made some progress:

Last week took 1 hour by the way... so it was 7 minutes longer this time which I realize means the intensity might be lower this week purely because of that.

Anyway...

Day 1: LEGS/ABS

Barbell Full Squats - 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Last Week:
80kg x 7, 80kg x 7

Today:
80kg x 10, 80kg x 6, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 7

Personal Comments for Today:
I feel I could have dug deeper and pushed for 1 or POSSIBLY 2 more reps. From was best at start towards the end I could have gone a little lower probably. This exercise totally wiped me out compared to usual... I feel these extra sets forced the intensity of the workout up heaps?

Dumbbell Lunges - 6 sets (3 sets each side), 5-7 reps

Last Week:
40kg x 7 -- same for next 5 sets

Today:
45kg x 7, 45kg x 7, 30kg x 7 (I lowered the weight), 30kg x 7, 30kg x 7, 30kg x 7

Personal Comments for Today:
This was exhausting... probably the most time consuming exercise trying to get myself to get into it... if I didn't lower the weight I would have taken way too long. My form sucked I feel... stuffed up the movement multiple times, felt sick doing it... I feel it was due to the previous exercise wiping me out already at this point.

Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 3 sets, 5-7 reps

Last Week:
80kg x 7, 80kg x 7

Today:
60kg x 7, 60kg x 7, 60kg x 7

Personal Comments for Today:
As far as I could tell my form was decent. Still felt exhausted at this point, but it was easier than expected. I probably could have lifted 70kg for each set. I think I'd aim 70kg next time unless I did this first in which case I could do 85kg maybe.

Standing One-Legged Dumbbell Calf Raises 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Last Week:
30kg x 12, 30kg x 14, 30kg x 12, 30kg x 14

Today:
25kg x 12, 25kg x 12, 25kg x 12, 25kg x 12

Personal Comments for Today:
I probably could have put on 30kg weight again this week, but I was already exhausted and felt like it was risky to add so much weight. By 12 reps my form was suffering, if I went to failure it would have been at expense of form anyway so I think this was actually on the money, just a little lighter than I could have had it be.

Seated Barbell Calf Raises - 2 sets, 10 reps

Last Week:
60kg x 12

Today:
40kg x 14, 40kg x 14

Personal Comments for Today:
I lowered it significantly because I felt I should work on the form and feeling it in my calves. I never can be sure about this exercise, I go up to 80kg with it and the only thing it seems to be putting a strain on is the bar hurting my skin on the legs rather than the calves, but in comparison to last week I actually think my focusing on feeling it in my calves may have helped, because I was trying to move the weight with my calves instead of my whole legs. I did this exercise last today because it seemed the least important one (?) and I was pressed for time.

Weighted Crunches - 3 sets, to failure

Last Week:
15kg x 24, 15kg x 15

Today:
15kg x 21, 15kg x 10, 15kg x 12

Personal Comments for Today:
Not too bad. I always focus on really feeling it and squeezing my stomach muscles. I didn't do it until failure though because I was worrying about not having enough time but I did it until my abs felt pretty tired.

Weighted Leg Raises - 3 sets, to failure

Last Week:
25kg x 12 <-- dropped weight plate at 6 reps

Today:
2.5kg x 10 (dropped at like 6 reps), 0kg x 8, 0kg x 7

Personal Comments for Today:
I always drop the weight because it slips from within my ankles. I need to find a way to keep it in there so I don't drop it lol.

OK that's it. All critique welcome. I'm just trying to learn here, and grow especially so yeah... the fact I felt drained so quickly may have been a mental thing, or it could have been that it was more intense due to additional sets in squats.

The only improvement I can see is in squats and the rest of the workout was not as intense as usual, especially since I took 7 minutes longer than last time, perhaps squats being the big compound exercise here means the overall workout goal was achieved though? NEXT time what do you think I should aim for? For squats I'm thinking a 5% increase or to stay at 80kg throughout all 4 sets if possible.

 

[JoeMyBro]

you need to tweak your diet a bit. i have made a group that can help do that.
you need to eat a lot more also. and tuna is great, but too much mercury if its albacore.
also fish makes you smarter, but dabuffguy is right when he says red meat is the most anabolic food you can eat.

you need some eggs in the a.m., complex carbs, salmon, chicken, tons of veggies, orange roughy, milk, and to lift very, very hard.

PM me if you want to talk about anything and welcome to EF bro.

Thanks for that. I'm going to go buy some chicken now... but usually I'm stuck with my whey protein cuz atm my family is broke and I don't work so unless I start working I'm stuck with pretty much no meat not even tuna for the last few days it really sucks.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Hey, that's something I totally forgot bro. MILK! Easy calories with lots of protein. Duh!





And I say do deadlifts last because they should drain you of all your energy because th eamount of weight you are able to move, and doing them first leaves no energy for the rest of the workout.

cool but should I switch my warmup exercise to something else then?

 

[dabuffguy]

cool but should I switch my warmup exercise to something else then?

Well, if you do deadlifts on back day, you can 2 two lighter sets to warm up before doing the heavy sets of deads. Just do it all at the end. Why warm up with deads if you are going to be pulling?


The rest of back day is all upper body, so just do a couple sets of lighter rows to get loose, do all your upper body lifting, (minus bicep curls) and then do your deadlifts.

Bicep curls go at the very end. And if time doesn't permit, you can skip them, your biceps are going to grow anyways doing deads and rows. If you do have time, then great go for it, but like I said in th eprevious post, it is not a priority.





Hahaha, yep thsoe extra sets of squats will kill you. You'll get into better shape though, so you'll get more used to it. And if you do squeeze out another rep or two in your sets, you will get bigger.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Thanks man... I really need to learn to push myself even further maybe figure out some motivation tactics (stuff to think about ) in the key moments when I really need to get that extra rep or 2.

I'm feeling a lot more confident about my routine now. First of all, gym was much more exhausting on me today than usual. I also know for a fact I'll get used to it (to a certain degree) since I had to get used to other workout before when I was overweight n unfit. Second, I'm eating more now... going to aim for 3500-4000 per day now even get a part time job if I have to n sell some stuff to pay for some meat too if I have to!!

It will be interesting most of all to see what I can lift NEXT workout, since if I lift greater, at this particular rep range, than that is definite progress and I will no longer be able to doubt myself once I experience it for myself.

Now if you'll excuse me, gotta eat my half-a-chicken lol.

 

[dabuffguy]

Thanks man... I really need to learn to push myself even further maybe figure out some motivation tactics (stuff to think about ) in the key moments when I really need to get that extra rep or 2.

I'm feeling a lot more confident about my routine now. First of all, gym was much more exhausting on me today than usual. I also know for a fact I'll get used to it (to a certain degree) since I had to get used to other workout before when I was overweight n unfit. Second, I'm eating more now... going to aim for 3500-4000 per day now even get a part time job if I have to n sell some stuff to pay for some meat too if I have to!!

It will be interesting most of all to see what I can lift NEXT workout, since if I lift greater, at this particular rep range, than that is definite progress and I will no longer be able to doubt myself once I experience it for myself.

Now if you'll excuse me, gotta eat my half-a-chicken lol.

Wait til chest day, you will be sore.

 

[gear63]

You will get a good routine going soon because you are very dedicated! trees make for a good pull up bar (Arnold used them!)

 

[JoeMyBro]

You will get a good routine going soon because you are very dedicated! trees make for a good pull up bar (Arnold used them!)

The only way I could do pull ups would be if I did it separate because I have no trees in my backyard... I could probably find a park or something or a tree nearby and do pull ups there but how would that work? Maybe do that second half of the day if I have time?

... would you guys do barbell press solo? I've got no spotter so I do dumbbell but yeah I can't push as much weight. Not sure how big a deal it is I read a debate on db vs bb and db makes your pecs grow better people were saying.

 

[dabuffguy]

The only way I could do pull ups would be if I did it separate because I have no trees in my backyard... I could probably find a park or something or a tree nearby and do pull ups there but how would that work? Maybe do that second half of the day if I have time?

... would you guys do barbell press solo? I've got no spotter so I do dumbbell but yeah I can't push as much weight. Not sure how big a deal it is I read a debate on db vs bb and db makes your pecs grow better people were saying.

There are advantages to both. DB target the pecs better, but a BB allows you to put more weight on them. There are ups and downs to both. So, what should you do?

Both! Trade off every workout. I think I made a comment about that earlier in the thread.

Do pull ups whenever you can. 4 sets to failure each time.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Everyone tells me not to do barbell bench without a spotter cuz its too dangerous... I thought by now I could control it and lower it on my chest in the worst case and maybe drop it to the side but the thought of lifting up up trying to put it on the rack and MISSING, having the bar fall onto my neck and killing me really freaks me out lol... I'm sure this happens too, not sure if my life is worth being able to lift more weight with it my goal is for SIZE not strength anyway so maybe its not so important.

I think I'll try this... I'll have a look for somewhere I can do pullups like second half of the day I should be doing pullups... its a bit of a walk too so I get in some light cardio.. or I could jog.

Yeah do you guys do light/medium/hard cardio when bulking or what? I think inverval training might be the best idea?

 

[dabuffguy]

Everyone tells me not to do barbell bench without a spotter cuz its too dangerous... I thought by now I could control it and lower it on my chest in the worst case and maybe drop it to the side but the thought of lifting up up trying to put it on the rack and MISSING, having the bar fall onto my neck and killing me really freaks me out lol... I'm sure this happens too, not sure if my life is worth being able to lift more weight with it my goal is for SIZE not strength anyway so maybe its not so important.

I think I'll try this... I'll have a look for somewhere I can do pullups like second half of the day I should be doing pullups... its a bit of a walk too so I get in some light cardio.. or I could jog.

Yeah do you guys do light/medium/hard cardio when bulking or what? I think inverval training might be the best idea?

Although it isn't best practice, I don't use a spotter doing flat becnh. I KNOW when my last rep is my last rep, if it is questionable, then rack the weight. You can always do another set. Last time I used a spotter iswhen I went for a 1 rep max. 335lbs. Haven't lifted that heavy since, so I dont need a spotter. Also, I lift in a well populated gym, so if an accident occured, I would quickly be helped. Hasn't happened yet.


And mixing it up between BB and DB will give you better size. More weight = greater resistance=greater growth stimulation. Like I said, they both have their benefits to bodybuilding. Do both.

For bulking, do light cardio sesions 2, at most 3 times a week. Don't go over 30 minutes. For you, 2x per week max until you get some good size bro.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Although it isn't best practice, I don't use a spotter doing flat becnh. I KNOW when my last rep is my last rep, if it is questionable, then rack the weight. You can always do another set. Last time I used a spotter iswhen I went for a 1 rep max. 335lbs. Haven't lifted that heavy since, so I dont need a spotter. Also, I lift in a well populated gym, so if an accident occured, I would quickly be helped. Hasn't happened yet.


And mixing it up between BB and DB will give you better size. More weight = greater resistance=greater growth stimulation. Like I said, they both have their benefits to bodybuilding. Do both.

For bulking, do light cardio sesions 2, at most 3 times a week. Don't go over 30 minutes. For you, 2x per week max until you get some good size bro.

Thanks. I'll start with a couple light cardio sessions this week and do some barbell but I'll just have to start lower weight to "practice" and get a feel for how much is too much. Thing is I work out in my backyard, there's nobody around so its a tiny bit dangerous... I'll see how it goes I guess that's the best I can do for the moment.

Thanks again man... I hope the next 3 months brings about some nice size gains compared to previous 3 months.

 

[ExtraMile]

why dont you find a friend who wants to get in shape aswell and both do the same routine, that way you will be more motivated and will also had a spotter on bench and squats...

 

[JoeMyBro]

Don't have much friends at the moment. I also live far out from everyone I do know so they don't come over either. The only situation for me having a gym buddy is when I start my course in a few months...

 

[dabuffguy]

Do what you can bro. you gotta make whatever you have work for you. A gym buddy would be good, but I don;t use one. I do just fine.

EM doesn't have any friends either. He just talks about having friends to make himself feel good. lol, just playin.

 

[JoeMyBro]

LOL...

Ok Just finished my routine and I tried barbell bench today... instead of posting up everything I'll just say I lifted a bit less for most exercises since last week, so that I could do more reps.

With Barbell Bench today I did:
50kg x8, 50kg x7, 40kg x 8, 40kg x 6 = 1310 total kg-age

Last week with Dumbbell Bench I did:
62kg x 9, 62kg x 7.5, 62kg x 4 = 1271 total kg-age

So, in comparison I did more than last week I suppose... I actually attempted 60kg first and got like 3 reps but it was damn heavy I thought I better lower it.

Not sure how wide the grip should be so I just held it as wide as possible. Looking at examples online, like the pic here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bench_press -- that's pretty much my grip width so it should be all good.

I feel so weak... had to go to 20kg for incline bench and I had to stand up just to lift the bar back on when I got through the reps..

Incline Barbell Bench:
20kg x 12, 20kg x 10, 20kg x 8, 20kg x 8.5 = 770 total kg-age

..and last week with Dumbbell Incline:
50kg x 7, 50kg x 4, 50kg x 3 = 700 total kg-age

Well, that's also an improvement overall. However if I did dumbbell I'd probably be able to get more maybe 850 total kg-age...

It's weird, I thought I would be stronger with barbell bench than with dumbbell yet I have to lift less? Despite increasing the reps from 7-12, a 20kg drop is a bit much??

Feedback would be nice... I'll see how I go next week. Maybe I'll do barbell again next week so I can compare better. How often do you guys rotate your barbell with dumbbell bench?

As for the other exercises... too early to tell I had to lift less so I could do more reps but on some I did about the same reps with lighter weight so I'm dumbfounded lol... overall I wasn't as exhausted as I expected to be, but barbell was definately tougher than I thought.

Oh yeah, finished in 1 hour 7 mins compared to 1 hour last week. Interesting isn't it... I get almost EXACTLY 1 hour prior, and now 1 hour 7 mins EXACTLY give or take a few.

 

[dabuffguy]

LOL...

Ok Just finished my routine and I tried barbell bench today... instead of posting up everything I'll just say I lifted a bit less for most exercises since last week, so that I could do more reps.

With Barbell Bench today I did:
50kg x8, 50kg x7, 40kg x 8, 40kg x 6 = 1310 total kg-age

Last week with Dumbbell Bench I did:
62kg x 9, 62kg x 7.5, 62kg x 4 = 1271 total kg-age

So, in comparison I did more than last week.

Total weight moved, yes.

Actual effectiveness? No. Your first sets last week had more reps and substantially more weight. That shouldn't happen.

I could do 50 sets for 50 reps at 40kg, but does that mean it's the most effective because my total weight moved is 100,000? Nope.


I suppose... I actually attempted 60kg first and got like 3 reps but it was damn heavy I thought I better lower it.



Not sure how wide the grip should be so I just held it as wide as possible.


Wide as possible is too wide. Use a comfortable grip, a bit more than shoulder width apart.


Looking at examples online, like the pic here: Bench press - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -- that's pretty much my grip width so it should be all good.

I feel so weak... had to go to 20kg for incline bench and I had to stand up just to lift the bar back on when I got through the reps..

Incline Barbell Bench:
20kg x 12, 20kg x 10, 20kg x 8, 20kg x 8.5 = 770 total kg-age

..and last week with Dumbbell Incline:
50kg x 7, 50kg x 4, 50kg x 3 = 700 total kg-age

Well, that's also an improvement overall. However if I did dumbbell I'd probably be able to get more maybe 850 total kg-age...


If you do Barbell flat bench, do DB incline. If you do DB flat, do barbell incline.

It's weird, I thought I would be stronger with barbell bench than with dumbbell yet I have to lift less? Despite increasing the reps from 7-12, a 20kg drop is a bit much??

Feedback would be nice... I'll see how I go next week. Maybe I'll do barbell again next week so I can compare better. How often do you guys rotate your barbell with dumbbell bench?

As for the other exercises... too early to tell I had to lift less so I could do more reps but on some I did about the same reps with lighter weight so I'm dumbfounded lol... overall I wasn't as exhausted as I expected to be, but barbell was definately tougher than I thought.

Oh yeah, finished in 1 hour 7 mins compared to 1 hour last week. Interesting isn't it... I get almost EXACTLY 1 hour prior, and now 1 hour 7 mins EXACTLY give or take a few.

^^^^

You need to hit more reps on your flat bench bro. 8 for a first set is not enough reps, nor would your form be proper doing this few of reps for a first try. Did you focus on the chest performing the movement, or were you too concerned about controlling the weight? The latter I suppose. If so, then it's too heavy. I do 15+ reps my first set when doing this type of lifting.

How could you possibly do 12kg more weight with DB last week with more reps? That makes absolutely no sense bro. None.

Are you sure you are totalling your weight on the barbell correctly? Are yo sure your DB weight is correct?

Something is definitely off with the weight.

 

[JoeMyBro]

~Well the only thing I can think of is the barbell itself being maybe 5kg... since I don't count in that weight... but I still lifted more with the dumbbells its true.

~I used a pretty comfortable grip, I can't go wider than shoulder width anyway because the rack is in the way.

~I did focus on moving with the chest but I also had to think about controlling the weight because I hadn't done that type of movement before. Even though I did warmup sets, my arms were shaking when I put the barbell on me with the 50kg.

~I highly doubt I'm calculating the weight wrong. I honestly have no idea why I lift less with barbell. I'll have to lower the weight again though since I can't get 12 reps yet.

~The thing with the total kg-age shows not just total weight moved but the difference in intensity and also I was lifting heavy weight, not like in your 50x50x40kg example where 40kg is too light for yourself.

My chest is hurting today, I don't think it normally hurts like this. All I can do is see how I go next week... if I see a big difference in strength its possible I added weight wrong but I've been counting the weight as I add it week after week and it doesn't make sense for me to make an error like that. I even got up and checked the weight on the barbell yesterday because I was wondering why it was so heavy for me, I didn't expect it to be.

Maybe it has something to do with my barbell movement compared to dumbbell movement? With barbell my hands at the top were the pretty much the same width apart at the top, and with dumbbells I move in an "A" figure (the peak of "A" being the dumbbells meeting at the top of the movement). I read that barbell uses your shoulders moreso to help push the weight, so maybe with dumbbell movement I was using a different muscle to help push the weight without realizing it?

Anyway I don't think I should be worried because I lifted hard my chest is feeling it today so I definitely worked the chest. My legs are still pretty sore from those squats LOL.

 

[dabuffguy]

~Well the only thing I can think of is the barbell itself being maybe 5kg... since I don't count in that weight... but I still lifted more with the dumbbells its true.


A standard BB weighs 21kg bro(45 pounds). Is it standard size?

~I used a pretty comfortable grip, I can't go wider than shoulder width anyway because the rack is in the way.

~I did focus on moving with the chest but I also had to think about controlling the weight because I hadn't done that type of movement before. Even though I did warmup sets, my arms were shaking when I put the barbell on me with the 50kg.

My arms shake too sometimes. You are just getting used to it. Form first. Weight comes secondary.

~I highly doubt I'm calculating the weight wrong. I honestly have no idea why I lift less with barbell. I'll have to lower the weight again though since I can't get 12 reps yet.

good. and get that mental focus on the pecs.

~The thing with the total kg-age shows not just total weight moved but the difference in intensity and also I was lifting heavy weight, not like in your 50x50x40kg example where 40kg is too light for yourself.


I was an exaggerated example.


My chest is hurting today, I don't think it normally hurts like this.


Pain = gain


All I can do is see how I go next week... if I see a big difference in strength its possible I added weight wrong but I've been counting the weight as I add it week after week and it doesn't make sense for me to make an error like that. I even got up and checked the weight on the barbell yesterday because I was wondering why it was so heavy for me, I didn't expect it to be.



Maybe it has something to do with my barbell movement compared to dumbbell movement? With barbell my hands at the top were the pretty much the same width apart at the top, and with dumbbells I move in an "A" figure (the peak of "A" being the dumbbells meeting at the top of the movement). I read that barbell uses your shoulders moreso to help push the weight, so maybe with dumbbell movement I was using a different muscle to help push the weight without realizing it?

Anyway I don't think I should be worried because I lifted hard my chest is feeling it today so I definitely worked the chest. My legs are still pretty sore from those squats LOL.

Well, you will get in the groove bro. Your chest should hurt everytime like it is. That means you are doing something right. Mine is tender to the touch sometimes. Even coughing hurts, lol.

 

[JoeMyBro]

"Your chest should hurt everytime like it is"

really? sometimes it doesn't hurt at all... but when it does it hurts the most the day after the workout... its tender to touch but I have to press down a bit... yeah this pain is good I love it... well you know what I mean!

 

[musclemom]

Just for giggles, I'm coming at this from a totally different angle, hear me out gentlemen.

I looked at your pics, Neo, and honestly, for lifting regularly for nearly four solid months (assuming you're coming at it as a newb) and increased calories, you're right, virtually no difference. It's weird!

I would be curious what your hormone profile looks like. Any chance you have decent health insurance that would enable you to go to a doctor and get blood work done to see what your test levels are?

My point, it would be one thing if you were lifting and making strength gains and still looked the same, but I'm hearing that you're not only not changing physically you're not making significant progress in your lifts (or did I read it wrong, I sort of skimmed). I just think, for your age, four months of lifting, even half assed, should have given you something, crap diet or not.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I had a blood test a few months ago and they came back fine, but they may not have tested for everything such as hormonal levels since I think they only tested for bladder issues which is why I had the test done...

There are a few possible explanations as for why I made no progress:

1). All my muscle gain went in my legs - I did not take before and after shots, never really even payed attention to their size.
2). I was so nutrient deficient that my body could not build new muscle.
3). In 9 weeks I went up from 50kg to 62kg with dumbbell bench press. Perhaps I could have lifted 62kg 9 weeks ago, and so I wasn't lifting heavier enough in the first place to actually develop any change in size/strength.
4). I took my before/after shots with different posture which hid any gains from being noticeable. (though I tried to get them exact same posture to be honest)
5). My calorie intake was not great enough - I was having 2700-2800 calories per day. Now I'm recommended for 3500 up to even 4500 per day.

Also these guys think the intensity of the workouts was too low... that and my diet was nutrient deficient. It could come down to genetics also...

The thing is, on paper with my skinfold calculations and such, I've made some Lean Body Mass gains... I cannot see them though, and my strength is so low. Now that I have my focus on deadlifts, squats and bench presses, I'm aiming for a 5% increase per week... I don't even have to wait that long to find out if I've made strength gains - just have to wait until next week because..

...I am certain I tried 100% with squats so that when the time comes next week (tuesday) I SHOULD be able to lift at 105%. I'm also eating vegetables (mixed frozen veggies is what I have) at least twice a day (aiming for 4 meals) and an increase in calories eating at 3500+... to be fair, I've been eating a lot of chocolates since its easter time lol... that puts my calories at 4500 but the main thing is I've got those 3500 coming from good sources. Heck, others eat crap and still gain muscle... still I think I'm going to back off these chocolates lol.

Are there ways to test hormonal levels without going to the doc. I feel a bit weird going up asking to get my hormone levels checked.... that and it costs money I don't have.

 

[c24k]

I had a blood test a few months ago and they came back fine, but they may not have tested for everything such as hormonal levels since I think they only tested for bladder issues which is why I had the test done...

There are a few possible explanations as for why I made no progress:

1). All my muscle gain went in my legs - I did not take before and after shots, never really even payed attention to their size.
2). I was so nutrient deficient that my body could not build new muscle.
3). In 9 weeks I went up from 50kg to 62kg with dumbbell bench press. Perhaps I could have lifted 62kg 9 weeks ago, and so I wasn't lifting heavier enough in the first place to actually develop any change in size/strength.
4). I took my before/after shots with different posture which hid any gains from being noticeable. (though I tried to get them exact same posture to be honest)
5). My calorie intake was not great enough - I was having 2700-2800 calories per day. Now I'm recommended for 3500 up to even 4500 per day.

Also these guys think the intensity of the workouts was too low... that and my diet was nutrient deficient. It could come down to genetics also...

The thing is, on paper with my skinfold calculations and such, I've made some Lean Body Mass gains... I cannot see them though, and my strength is so low. Now that I have my focus on deadlifts, squats and bench presses, I'm aiming for a 5% increase per week... I don't even have to wait that long to find out if I've made strength gains - just have to wait until next week because..

...I am certain I tried 100% with squats so that when the time comes next week (tuesday) I SHOULD be able to lift at 105%. I'm also eating vegetables (mixed frozen veggies is what I have) at least twice a day (aiming for 4 meals) and an increase in calories eating at 3500+... to be fair, I've been eating a lot of chocolates since its easter time lol... that puts my calories at 4500 but the main thing is I've got those 3500 coming from good sources. Heck, others eat crap and still gain muscle... still I think I'm going to back off these chocolates lol.

Are there ways to test hormonal levels without going to the doc. I feel a bit weird going up asking to get my hormone levels checked.... that and it costs money I don't have.

yes.
Here: 4-Hormone Saliva Test for Testosterone, Estradiol, Cortisol, DHEA, ect
Here: Home Testosterone & Estradiol Blood Test
and Here: Home Testosterone, Estradiol, LH, FSH, & Vitamin D Blood Test
I recommend the last one since its a full hormone test. Its the most expensive though. Not sure how much money you have to spend.

 

[JoeMyBro]

lol after seeing those prices I'd rather go to the doctor!

 

[c24k]

lol after seeing those prices I'd rather go to the doctor!

Endocrinologists are not going to be any cheaper if not alot more expensive. Although i've never personally been to one but doctors are always outrageously expensive

 

[JoeMyBro]

yeah I don't think I'll be going anyway...

has anyone else had this test before? surely I should give this new routine/diet a try before forking out all that money which I don't even have at the moment anyway...

 

[dabuffguy]

yeah I don't think I'll be going anyway...

has anyone else had this test before? surely I should give this new routine/diet a try before forking out all that money which I don't even have at the moment anyway...

Just stick to the diet and training bro. You'll make the improvements if you do. It is unlikely you have low testosterone. Possible, but unlikely.

 

[musclemom]

Just stick to the diet and training bro. You'll make the improvements if you do. It is unlikely you have low testosterone. Possible, but unlikely.

Maybe not low testosterone but generally haywire levels, we've had young guys come on before with a similar problem. But you're right, the least expensive course of action is complete pics, (at take least measurements) new diet and tweaked training program, reassess in another three or four months.

Then if you've still got no progress something is definitely going on.

 

[dabuffguy]

Maybe not low testosterone but generally haywire levels, we've had young guys come on before with a similar problem. But you're right, the least expensive course of action is complete pics, (at take least measurements) new diet and tweaked training program, reassess in another three or four months.

Then if you've still got no progress something is definitely going on.

Then yes. If someone is eating big and lifting hard and making no gains, something is not right. either they onlu think they are doing it right and they aren't, or they are screwed up hormonally.

It's hard to tell. If I could, I'd drive down the street and help this bro out and ensure everything is going right with his workouts and stuff.

But this bro has gained weight, so I think he's doing alright. He upped the calories to 3500, and that should be plenty for him to pack on mass and strength.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Actually I've been taking measurements every month here they are:
(note, I have not included left side measurements because they are the same as right side. I don't want to type them up twice)

Measurements taken in inches.

13th of January 09 / 8th of April 09 --- Body Part
11 / 12.2 --- Right Upper Arm Relaxed
13 / 13.7 --- Right Upper Arm Flexed
10 / 10.5 --- Right Forearm
6.5 / 6.6 --- Right Wrist
20 / 22 --- Right Thigh
14 / 14.3 --- Right Calf
36 / 36.7 --- Chest Relaxed
39 / 39.3 --- Chest Expanded
29 / 32 --- Waist Smallest
30 / 32.5 --- Waist Umbilicus
41 / 44? --- Shoulders
34.5 / 36.5 --- Hips

My theory is I suck at taking measurements so these are only guidelines of actual measurement changes. Also, for all I know it was 100% fat gain which makes these measurements.

 

[c24k]

you kno neo (lol matrix right?) i just bought the modern Encyclopedia of BB by Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think its the best $27 investment i've made in a long time, if you don't have the book i think you should take a look at it. It has a buttload of great information. Also Nelson montana has a few books out on BB'ing those might be worth taking a look at as well

 

[ExtraMile]

lol after seeing those prices I'd rather go to the doctor!

damn im glad doctors & hospitals are free here in the UK lol

 

[dabuffguy]

damn im glad doctors & hospitals are free here in the UK lol

socialized medicine sucks balls

 

[c24k]

socialized medicine sucks balls

heck yea it does, even where i live in MS we have soooooo many canadians coming to our hospital to get surgery done because the waiting list is so long in canada that they will die from not having the surgery or have permanent unfixable damage.

 

[ConanX]

I just finished reading this thread and I am VERY impressed with the amount of time and the SOLID advice that dabuffguy gave. Musclemom, I understand where you are coming from but judging by his poor diet and workout routine, it all makes sense to me why he wasn't seeing the gains he likes. I bet the next time he posts a 3-month mass thread, he will have some serious muscle added to his frame.

 

[George Spellwin]

Two comments: Are you really going to failure? It is hard to do without a spotter and especially with a home gym. If you are going to failure, try cutting back to 1 set only taken to failure. I think you may be over-training. Also, get some blood work done to check your testosterone levels and a thyroid panel. Oh, and go Platinum!

 

[JoeMyBro]

Two comments: Are you really going to failure? It is hard to do without a spotter and especially with a home gym. If you are going to failure, try cutting back to 1 set only taken to failure. I think you may be over-training.

I was training to failure but it's hard to tell if I could mentally push myself further. If I cut back to just 1 set to failure I'm changing my routine back more towards what everyone else here is telling me NOT to do. I'm not doing steroids or anything, this is pure natural bodybuilding attempts.

Also, get some blood work done to check your testosterone levels and a thyroid panel. Oh, and go Platinum!

I'm thinking about getting some blood work done but it is an issue of money for me... if I start working again it won't be an issue... hopefully work will be sooner than later...

Guys here's an update of what happened yesterday...

Basically I was doing squats and I was paying attention to my legs trying to focus on my form... my form seemed a bit off... anyway, I did this:

80kg x 10
80kg x 9
80kg x 3 -- this is where I failed. I went down on the 3rd or maybe 4th rep and couldn't push the weight back up. I was kinda stuck under the barbell. I ended up getting it off me by tipping it to the side.
70kg x 6

So, compared to last week this was a complete screw up. I was aiming at doing 80kg for all 4 sets, and I thought I would be ok, because I could do a few more reps on the second set, yet I got to the point where I felt like I couldn't do another rep and I did it anyway because it was only the 3rd/4th rep and I felt like... if I can't do this now, I'm not progressing, and I've been wasting my time. Needless to say my mental attitude was incredibly poor due to this accident with the weights. I also hurt my shoulders a bit, and I had to get the rest of the workout done and I was wasting precious time. I ended up doing the rest of the workout, but I did lighter weights than I could have. I even had to skip one exercise because it was already 1 hour 10 mins and it was pitch black outside... the workout went down the drain...

I've been trying so hard to build this muscle up, to get in a body I'm confortable with, I was in tears... I'm not ashamed to say that... this IS that important to me. It's been my goal for the longest time. To first lose that weight, then to build this muscle, and so far I feel like I'm just going right back to point A gaining nothing but fat. That one moment of screwing up made ruined my whole workout but has put me in a rotten mood since.

Anyway I just have to chalk it down to the fact I lost another opportunity to build muscle. My legs are hurting today, but I could have pushed myself, and It was not progressive overload so there won't be any new muscle coming in anytime soon. I'm really hoping that I have increased my strength for tomorrows workout... it may be true I worked out with flaws the last 3 months but its been 3 months of dedication and exhaustion and times where I feel like I am getting nothing in return for all my efforts except FAT gain which is going to take me even more time to get rid of.

The moment I discover I have gained some muscle and know how to truly do it through actual experience, I will have accomplished my goal. For many its an easy task, and to be honest I didn't think it would be this hard... but its an important step in my life as I've chosen it to be.

Why do I want to build muscle so badly anyway?? C'mon guys... I want to feel confortable inside this body of mine, I want to increase my strength so my back doesn't hurt me so damn much from the scoliosis I have... I want girls to notice me and all that too, of course...

ANYWAY I wil have to let you guys know how I go with my next workout.

 

[dabuffguy]

Guys here's an update of what happened yesterday...

Basically I was doing squats and I was paying attention to my legs trying to focus on my form... my form seemed a bit off... anyway, I did this:

80kg x 10
80kg x 9
80kg x 3 -- this is where I failed. I went down on the 3rd or maybe 4th rep and couldn't push the weight back up. I was kinda stuck under the barbell. I ended up getting it off me by tipping it to the side.
70kg x 6

So, compared to last week this was a complete screw up. I was aiming at doing 80kg for all 4 sets, and I thought I would be ok, because I could do a few more reps on the second set, yet I got to the point where I felt like I couldn't do another rep and I did it anyway because it was only the 3rd/4th rep and I felt like... if I can't do this now, I'm not progressing, and I've been wasting my time. Needless to say my mental attitude was incredibly poor due to this accident with the weights. I also hurt my shoulders a bit, and I had to get the rest of the workout done and I was wasting precious time. I ended up doing the rest of the workout, but I did lighter weights than I could have. I even had to skip one exercise because it was already 1 hour 10 mins and it was pitch black outside... the workout went down the drain...

I've been trying so hard to build this muscle up, to get in a body I'm confortable with, I was in tears... I'm not ashamed to say that... this IS that important to me. It's been my goal for the longest time. To first lose that weight, then to build this muscle, and so far I feel like I'm just going right back to point A gaining nothing but fat. That one moment of screwing up made ruined my whole workout but has put me in a rotten mood since.

Anyway I just have to chalk it down to the fact I lost another opportunity to build muscle. My legs are hurting today, but I could have pushed myself, and It was not progressive overload so there won't be any new muscle coming in anytime soon. I'm really hoping that I have increased my strength for tomorrows workout... it may be true I worked out with flaws the last 3 months but its been 3 months of dedication and exhaustion and times where I feel like I am getting nothing in return for all my efforts except FAT gain which is going to take me even more time to get rid of.

The moment I discover I have gained some muscle and know how to truly do it through actual experience, I will have accomplished my goal. For many its an easy task, and to be honest I didn't think it would be this hard... but its an important step in my life as I've chosen it to be.

Why do I want to build muscle so badly anyway?? C'mon guys... I want to feel confortable inside this body of mine, I want to increase my strength so my back doesn't hurt me so damn much from the scoliosis I have... I want girls to notice me and all that too, of course...

ANYWAY I wil have to let you guys know how I go with my next workout.

Stop worrying about how much weight you are lifting. Building muscle has nothing to do with how much weight you can do. Being strong and building muscle size don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Work each set in the rep range I told you to do. A 3 rep set of squats is NOT!! what the program is bro. 10-12 reps EVERY SET! That means if you have to decrease the weight to hit that rep range, then do it. Even a 9 rep set = fail. 10 reps is a minimum here. I'd rather see you doing 15 reps and being a little light than being too heavy and getting less than 10. Follow the workout plan and adjust the weight accordingly.

It's good to see that you pushed it hard enough that you couldn't get the bar up. That's the intensity we are looking for. Next time, just dump it off of your shoulders behind you.

I'd rather you started your workout with the 70KG, and got 15 reps the first few sets. I ALWAYS squat in the 12-15 rep range. I can max squat about 185kg (405lbs), but I always do my working sets with 110kg at high reps for growth, not power and strength. Granted 2 months ago I injured my back and haven't been able to squat since then and my legs are now puny again.


Building a muscular body isn't an easy task for anybody bro. It takes years to get to where you want to be.

And as far as proressive overload goes, once you can do more than 15 reps on your sets, then add a little more weight to your sets and work until you achieve the same 15 reps at that weight, and increase the weight. More reps can also be considered progressive overload. Progressive overload doesn't mean "add more weight". It means increasing the demands of the body for muscle growth. More reps at a given weight is a greater demand upon the body, so it's progressive overload. There are MANY ways to achiever progressive over load. More wight, more reps, more sets, more frequent (as long as you recover properly), less time between sets, and greater intensity.

So, for you we have done atleast 3 of those if you are following the rep range I told you. More reps, more sets, and more intensity. Also, muscle mind connection. I know you haven;t achieved this because your sets are too heavy to be able to focus on this. Don't lift too heavy. More weight will come, if you follow the program bro. More weight comes with time only. You have to take the idea that you have to do more weight in your brain and throw it in the garbage, because you don't. The others you can change automatically. Follow the program and you will make progress.




More importantly, how's the diet? You eating a lot more? I hope so, because otherwise you aren't going to get anywhere.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Thanks dabuffguy,

I realized after that workout I was trying to push too much... I should have gone back to 70kg but to be honest I'm rushing myself without completely realizing it.

I'll show you what I ate last tuesday (workout day):

Meal 1
-Rice Bubbles with Fat Free Soy Milk
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1.5 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk

Meal 2
-Mixed frozen veggies (about 1 or 2 serves)
-Wholegrain Rolled Oats
-Meatballs (mince, beef)
-2 Small Pizzas, home made with cheese and some peperoni

Meal 3 (pre-workout)
-Wholegrain Rolled Oats
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1.5 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk

Post Workout Shake
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 2 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk
-60g Glucose sugar (or when I run out it will be dextrose which I found is cheaper)

Meal 4 (post-post-workout)
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1 Scoop with Fat Free Soy Milk
-about 200g of tuna in olive oil blend
-1 slice white bread

Meal 5 (pre-bed)
-3 cups Basmati rice
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1.5 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk

Total Calories
3, 994 (18% fat, 47% carbs, 35% protein)

Judging this myself I realize its only 5 meals, but I wasn't awake as much throughout the day to eat 6 meals. In meal 4 I would have normally had half a chicken but the store was out so I was stuck with tuna for that meal and I had a protein shake to up the protein level amount. My aim is actually have veggies with at least 2 meals of the day but yeah I fell short of that this day. I read that I should eat some simpler-carbs for the morning to "break-the-fast" which is why I have rice bubbles cereal.

Please critique this that'd be helpful... I'll post up what I eat today too maybe later though... other days I mix it up have things like some scrambled eggs, peanut butter wholemeal toast... i'm trying to get more variety... if it counts I eat a bit of chocolate lately too lol. Yesterday I was out most of the day I ate a chicken burger and some chips... I'm thinking the chips were a bad move but lol it's the first time I had take-away type food in months.

 

[iggy]

Two comments: Are you really going to failure? It is hard to do without a spotter and especially with a home gym. If you are going to failure, try cutting back to 1 set only taken to failure. I think you may be over-training. Also, get some blood work done to check your testosterone levels and a thyroid panel. Oh, and go Platinum!

nice to hear from you george! i like the server upgrade, it's much faster. you should stop by the karma bookie section sometime

 

[dabuffguy]

Thanks dabuffguy,

I realized after that workout I was trying to push too much... I should have gone back to 70kg but to be honest I'm rushing myself without completely realizing it.

I'll show you what I ate last tuesday (workout day):

Meal 1
-Rice Bubbles with Fat Free Soy Milk (replace with 1 cup oats)
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1.5 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk


Meal 2
-Mixed frozen veggies (about 1 or 2 serves) (good)
- Rolled oats (Do rice or potato instead here.)
-Meatballs (mince, beef) (is the beef lean? lke 90%+ lean.)

-2 Small Pizzas, home made with cheese and some peperoni
(Add some milk here bro)


Meal 3 (pre-workout)
-Wholegrain Rolled Oats
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1.5 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk

Post Workout Shake
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 2 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk
-60g Glucose sugar (or when I run out it will be dextrose which I found is cheaper)

Meal 4 (post-post-workout)
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1 Scoop with Fat Free Soy Milk
-about 200g of tuna in olive oil blend (do chicken some days)
-1 slice white bread

Meal 5 (pre-bed)
-3 cups Basmati rice
-Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein 1.5 Scoops with Fat Free Soy Milk

Total Calories
3, 994 (18% fat, 47% carbs, 35% protein)

Judging this myself I realize its only 5 meals, but I wasn't awake as much throughout the day to eat 6 meals. In meal 4 I would have normally had half a chicken but the store was out so I was stuck with tuna for that meal and I had a protein shake to up the protein level amount. My aim is actually have veggies with at least 2 meals of the day but yeah I fell short of that this day. I read that I should eat some simpler-carbs for the morning to "break-the-fast" which is why I have rice bubbles cereal. (eh, screw that. Drink 100% fruit juice instead for your simple carbs and eat oats for breakfast. I don't think Ronnie coleman doesn't eat rice krispies for breakfast.)

Please critique this that'd be helpful... I'll post up what I eat today too maybe later though... other days I mix it up have things like some scrambled eggs, peanut butter wholemeal toast... i'm trying to get more variety... if it counts I eat a bit of chocolate lately too lol. Yesterday I was out most of the day I ate a chicken burger and some chips... I'm thinking the chips were a bad move but lol it's the first time I had take-away type food in months.

Don't be too concerned about cleanliness of diet right now. Just make sure you are getting in the 300 quality grams of protein and overall calories.

^^^^



Why soy milk? Why fat free?


I'm not seeing enough meat in there. Meat 3 times a day, atleast 8oz (220grams) each time. Using 4-5 protein shakes daily get expensive over time. Try and get more meat in there to avoid the need to supplement with protein so much. It's better anyways.



You need casein protein before bed, not whey. Or cottage cheese works too. Something that digests slowly. Whey digests quickly, so the majority of the night your body doesn't have available protein. Or just 300 grams of chicken.



Not bad bro. A few tweaks to up the protein a bit, and you should be rockin.

And drink TONS of water. Stay hydrated.

 

[JoeMyBro]

^^^^



Why soy milk? Why fat free?

lactose intolerant, fat free cause I got used to it when I was cutting


I'm not seeing enough meat in there. Meat 3 times a day, atleast 8oz (220grams) each time. Using 4-5 protein shakes daily get expensive over time. Try and get more meat in there to avoid the need to supplement with protein so much. It's better anyways.

yea my only concern is eating RED meat 3 times a day. I was told you should only have that 3 times a week... I honestly have no idea about that though... the best substitute is tuna I can get about 200g of it for 3 meals a day for a while if my parents keep buyin it until I get my own money to help myself out here anyway.. I have a small budget for protein maybe ill just take the money outa there when Im out of meat n buy that instead but yea I need some meat ideas that are cheap from supermarket? best I can think of is poultry like chicken, unless the red meat think is innacurate than I can probably get some other stuff inthere?


You need casein protein before bed, not whey. Or cottage cheese works too. Something that digests slowly. Whey digests quickly, so the majority of the night your body doesn't have available protein. Or just 300 grams of chicken.

I overlooked this but maybe thats a big mistake.. I mean considering muscle develops a lot when your sleeping right?


Not bad bro. A few tweaks to up the protein a bit, and you should be rockin.


And drink TONS of water. Stay hydrated.

I drink 3 glasses with each meal. its easier than trying to drink one every hour.

Yea ok im off for my next workout

 

[dabuffguy]

It doesn't have to be beef 3 times per day. Meat, flesh of an animal. 1 red, 1 fish, and one chicken. or 2 chicken and 1 fish. Yes, I wouldn't eat 3/4kg of red meat every day either.


If your budget requires, you can buy white meat chicken in a can too. But you should be able to get 1kg of chicken breast for like $5-6 dollars US. Where are you from btw? UK/AUS?


Use reduced fat, but not skim milk. More easy calories.

Yep, use a slow digesting protein at night bro. It makes a difference.

 

[JoeMyBro]

It doesn't have to be beef 3 times per day. Meat, flesh of an animal. 1 red, 1 fish, and one chicken. or 2 chicken and 1 fish. Yes, I wouldn't eat 3/4kg of red meat every day either.

ok ill see to this...

If your budget requires, you can buy white meat chicken in a can too. But you should be able to get 1kg of chicken breast for like $5-6 dollars US. Where are you from btw? UK/AUS?

Australia. never seen canned chicken but if I buy a whole large bbq chicken its like $10 AU

Use reduced fat, but not skim milk. More easy calories.

The other version of the brand I like which is soy, has equal fat/protein ratio which is why I choose the fat free version... I'm not really having trouble eating enough yet... if I wanted some extra fat a bit of chocolate is ok to fill in the gap although, it is mostly saturated fat...

Yep, use a slow digesting protein at night bro. It makes a difference.

ok i'm going to order some casein protein either now, hopefully they're open, or tomorrow...

 

[JoeMyBro]

Not sure how long you guys train for in bulking/cutting cycles but I figure it doesn't matter at this point I've already been "bulking" for 3+ months. I'm thinking the best idea for me is to actually start trying to get my BF% lower.

It's risen to the point my face is looking chubby again, my legs are rubbing together, I'm feeling fat and cannot notice any difference in muscle size - as you can see yourself from my before/after photos. If I keep going, especially eating 3500 per day, which is an excess of about 1000 calories for myself, I'm going to gain lots more fat with little or no muscle, just like the previous 3 months. I haven't a clue how I'm going to approach muscle gain but I'm thinking its best to cut down while I figure it out, maybe try for some strength gains whilst cutting...

What do you guys think? Sound like a good plan?? Should I take a chance and keep going (at this rate gaining seemingly nothing but fat) or start cutting down and return to a bulk from a lower BF% which would give me time to make sure I am progressing and lifting properly?

I feel ashamed that this happened... I thought maybe I could get it under control and start gaining muscle, but 3500 is a huge amount of calories, and I fear since something is STILL wrong, I'm not going to end up gaining anything but more fat... now I just need to figure out how many calories to consume for my new cutting phase. I'll start tomorrow, take some pictures, you can see yourself how fat I'm getting and how there's been no muscle size-changes. Either way it's not going to matter since I'm either going to cut now, or cut later... I have a lot of fat to get rid of (once again *cry*). I better get on with it, right? DAMN I am just returning to my old fat ass self, I wonder if you can understand how this makes me feel after having put months of effort into getting rid of fat, I go and gain it all back without any muscle, it's like I'm living some kind of nightmare. Anyway I'm an optimist so I'll just keep trying until I get it right.

Edit:
Also do you think my current adjusted routine is all good? I'll keep doing it as it is?

 

[dabuffguy]

Not sure how long you guys train for in bulking/cutting cycles but I figure it doesn't matter at this point I've already been "bulking" for 3+ months. I'm thinking the best idea for me is to actually start trying to get my BF% lower.

No, it isn't. Lift for size right now bro. Frankly, that is really lacking. Don;t worry about your BF too much.

It's risen to the point my face is looking chubby again, my legs are rubbing together, I'm feeling fat and cannot notice any difference in muscle size - as you can see yourself from my before/after photos.

Your before and afters look almost the same. You are being too self conscious. If you are gaining too much fat, just reduce your carbs a bit.


If I keep going, especially eating 3500 per day, which is an excess of about 1000 calories for myself, I'm going to gain lots more fat with little or no muscle, just like the previous 3 months. I haven't a clue how I'm going to approach muscle gain but I'm thinking its best to cut down while I figure it out, maybe try for some strength gains whilst cutting...

No, if you are 1000 calories over what you need, cut carbs by 100 grams per day. you'll still be over maintenance calories, with less carbs. You'll still gain weight, with less fat.

What do you guys think? Sound like a good plan??

No. I've given you a plan, stick with it.

Should I take a chance and keep going (at this rate gaining seemingly nothing but fat) or start cutting down and return to a bulk from a lower BF% which would give me time to make sure I am progressing and lifting properly?

No, by the time you lose your BF, you will have lost your muscle gains. Once you start bulking again, you'll gain the BF right back. Your pics don't look fat at all BTW.

I feel ashamed that this happened... I thought maybe I could get it under control and start gaining muscle, but 3500 is a huge amount of calories, and I fear since something is STILL wrong, I'm not going to end up gaining anything but more fat... now I just need to figure out how many calories to consume for my new cutting phase. I'll start tomorrow, take some pictures, you can see yourself how fat I'm getting and how there's been no muscle size-changes. Either way it's not going to matter since I'm either going to cut now, or cut later... I have a lot of fat to get rid of (once again *cry*). I better get on with it, right? DAMN I am just returning to my old fat ass self, I wonder if you can understand how this makes me feel after having put months of effort into getting rid of fat, I go and gain it all back without any muscle, it's like I'm living some kind of nightmare. Anyway I'm an optimist so I'll just keep trying until I get it right.

Edit:
Also do you think my current adjusted routine is all good? I'll keep doing it as it is?

Bro, you are being impatient. These things take a LONG time. It doesn't happen overnight. If you are gaining too much BF too fast, reduce carbs a bit. But, you are still going to gain fat if you are trying to gain weight. That's just part of the deal.

You don't weigh much, so cutting will result in you loosing muscle mass, and end up looking like a skeleton as opposed to muscular. Don't do it. Get some mass on you first.

You are getting WAY to worried and overconsciouss and worrisome about everything. Take a deep breathe and don't freak out.

Girls worry about being fat. Men worrying about getting bigger and stronger while accepting the fact that they will gain some fat. You can always get rid of it, but you can't gain substantial amounts and stay lean. It doesn't happen.

Not that I know everything, but I am disappointed you express zero confidence in anything I have told you.

Look at my pictures in my thread. I gained 50 lbs in a year. (Not trying to brag, just giving an example). I went from 9% to 14-15% BF. So freaking what about fat increasing by 6%. I ended up gaining a ton of lean mass and strength too. By the time I hit the weight I want, I'll cut down and look like a beast. Muscle first, rid of the fat later. That's how it goes.

Take a chill pill, get mentally focused, and go for it. Eat big and train hard.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Well I was only considering cutting first, I don't see the difference with cutting now or later... losing fat/muscle now, or losing fat/muscle later... I recognize the fact I haven't given the changed routine enough time but yeah I am very self conscious about the level of fat gain I've got happening here. I'll try reducing carbs on non-workout days that should help, because I still need energy do to the workouts.

dabuffguy, do you use steroids or anything like that? I'm not sure if you are a natural body builder considering this is a steroid forum too?

 

[dabuffguy]

Well I was only considering cutting first, I don't see the difference with cutting now or later... losing fat/muscle now, or losing fat/muscle later... I recognize the fact I haven't given the changed routine enough time but yeah I am very self conscious about the level of fat gain I've got happening here. I'll try reducing carbs on non-workout days that should help, because I still need energy do to the workouts.

dabuffguy, do you use steroids or anything like that? I'm not sure if you are a natural body builder considering this is a steroid forum too?

I don't use illegal drugs of any kind including illegal steroids.

The difference is when you have more muscle mass, it burns more calories automatically. And larger muscles stimulate greater amounts of growth hormone production, which also aid in losing fat. Cutting with more muscle mass will give you the desired reult of looking lean hard and muscular. Cutting before gaining any significant mas resuls in lookin glike the skinnny kid with a super high metabolism. That was me in high school. The tall lurpy kid. Having lesser amounts of muscle mass and cutting is ridiculous and the wrong thing to do.

I'm telling you, if you cut now, you'll look like a concentration camp victim. Go for the mass bro.

Don't get self consciouss about getting "fat". You could gain 5% BF and not look fat. You are being WAY too critical of yourself. Loosen up for real.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Well you might be using "legal steroids" though? lol... I read in your 1 year progress page "Monsterdrol"... I looked it up and seems to be a steroid of a sort. I'm not judging, I'm just trying to compare myself to someone who is a natural bodybuilder so I actually have some realistic results to compare to and proper advice for going at it without steroid use.

This week I gained 1.4 kg... wow that's a ton of fat don't you think? No way half of that is muscle...

 

[dabuffguy]

This week I gained 1.4 kg... wow that's a ton of fat don't you think? No way half of that is muscle...

That's called increased caloric intake. There is more food in your digestive tract and you are probably carrying a little bit more water. You didn't gain 1.4kg of fat. Probably a very small portion of it is muscle (less than 10%).

Every KG on the scale should be a celebration for you no matter wher it comes from.

 

[JoeMyBro]

- You didn't mention what "monsterdrol" is... is this a form of "steroid"? What is it?

- To clarify I weight myself in the morning, once a week, and my stomach is pretty much empty at this time since I sleep maybe 8-10 hours. If I gained about 10% that will be about 0.5 kg of muscle a month, which is like 7 kg a year... that's quite a lot actually... well to be honest I don't know how much to expect really. The thing is, if I gain 7kg muscle, thats 90% of fat probably coming in... obviously its a bit too much, I thought the ratio should be more like 1:1 for fat/muscle gain... or so I've read.

- I am betting next week I will be about 1 kg heavier... I don't think it has anything to do with holding extra water, because for how long can I continue to add additional water weight, and its not likely its food because I check when I wake up. If I check after I've been eating a few meals my weight goes up a few kgs.

- Today I did squats, which once again wiped me out. I actually felt sick once again... I did 70kg x 12, 70kg x 12, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 10 -- between the last two sets I rested heaps though maybe 4-5 minutes. Maybe I still need to adjust to the workload. Do you feel this is a satisfactory improvement? I pushed myself, but I admit I could have gone lower towards the end of the last couple sets and for a couple more reps... if I pushed myself a bit harder I reckon I could have gotten 12 reps for all sets, but I'm not entirely sure considering how I felt. Anyway I'm just glad I didn't get stuck under the weight like last time, maybe that's why I held back but yeah I know I need to NOT hold back and actually PUSH my limits. I'm looking forward to incr. my strength next week.

- The thing I'm unsure about, is the amount of time I rest between the sets (of squats particularly). Because I'm puffing heavily for some weird reason, and start to feel "knocked out" like all my energy is wiped out instantly, I wind up resting for long periods of (as I mentioned above) 4-5 minutes. I rested about 90 seconds between first two sets though because I was counting but yeah maybe I could also focus on increasing intensity by reducing the rest time between sets, whilst maintaining 70kg x 12 reps ?? or should I focus on just lifting maybe 2.5kg heavier next time? Sorry to ask "stupid" questions, but there's something wrong in my workouts or diet and I'm trying to figure it out. I mean, if it takes me 15-20 minutes to do just 4 sets of squats I'm thinking maybe there's too much rest time in there. I don't do the movements quickly - I make sure I move slow and controlled and as low as I can (unless I wimp out lol)... anyway I'm guessing I rest at least 3-4 minutes between each set maybe that's too much... I find this only really happens with squats, other exercises I can get away with maybe 2 minute resting periods max...

I want to thank you for your help and conversation, I just want you to know that I am appreciative of your advice, since I'm someone who obviously needs some education in muscle development. By the way, you look huge in your avatar. I dream to get that big lol... how long has it been for you to get that big?

 

[dabuffguy]

- You didn't mention what "monsterdrol" is... is this a form of "steroid"? What is it?

Yes, it is an OTC anabolic.



- To clarify I weight myself in the morning, once a week, and my stomach is pretty much empty at this time since I sleep maybe 8-10 hours. If I gained about 10% that will be about 0.5 kg of muscle a month, which is like 7 kg a year... that's quite a lot actually... well to be honest I don't know how much to expect really. The thing is, if I gain 7kg muscle, thats 90% of fat probably coming in... obviously its a bit too much, I thought the ratio should be more like 1:1 for fat/muscle gain... or so I've read.

You won't continue to gain much fat after you reach a certain point.

You don't need to expect a certain weight for results. If you do things right, you will see the improvements. You could gain 15kg of weight in a year easily at your size, as long as you eat enough.

However, It isn't unreasonable to expect 1 kg of lean muscle a month for someone who is starting out. The more you gain, the harder it is to keep gaining at the same rate.





- I am betting next week I will be about 1 kg heavier... I don't think it has anything to do with holding extra water, because for how long can I continue to add additional water weight, and its not likely its food because I check when I wake up. If I check after I've been eating a few meals my weight goes up a few kgs.

- Today I did squats, which once again wiped me out. I actually felt sick once again... I did 70kg x 12, 70kg x 12, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 10 -- between the last two sets I rested heaps though maybe 4-5 minutes.

Yes, much better. If you felt sick, that's okay. It's not sickness. It's called being drained of energy. You may have even got light headed. It's normal if you are working hard on legs. Make sure you pound down a nice shake and a solid meal after lifting.





Maybe I still need to adjust to the workload. Do you feel this is a satisfactory improvement?

Yes, you did good bro. Next week, leave the weight the same, but you need to do more reps as your increase of workload. Shoot for 14-15 reps next time. Once you hit 15 reps/set (all sets), then let's up the weight to 75kg, or whatever the interval is that is close to that, and we will increase your weights and workloads like that for a while.

I recall last week you did 80kg, and your first set you got 10 reps. You should have been able to push it harder and reach 15 reps for atleast your first set tody @ 70kg. No big worry, you are getting the hang of it. As long as we steadily increase either reps or weight from here, we are on the right track.




I pushed myself, but I admit I could have gone lower towards the end of the last couple sets and for a couple more reps... if I pushed myself a bit harder I reckon I could have gotten 12 reps for all sets, but I'm not entirely sure considering how I felt. Anyway I'm just glad I didn't get stuck under the weight like last time, maybe that's why I held back but yeah I know I need to NOT hold back and actually PUSH my limits. I'm looking forward to incr. my strength next week.

Yep, you need to push hard. Make sure you are going to parallel on every rep. Like I said above, we'll leave the weight the same, but shoot for more reps, then we'll increase the weight the following week.




- The thing I'm unsure about, is the amount of time I rest between the sets (of squats particularly). Because I'm puffing heavily for some weird reason, and start to feel "knocked out" like all my energy is wiped out instantly, I wind up resting for long periods of (as I mentioned above) 4-5 minutes.


Hehehehehe, squats do that to you. I usually take 3-4 minutes on squats between sets. To each his own here. It just cant be way too long. 5 minutes is a bit long.




I rested about 90 seconds between first two sets though because I was counting but yeah maybe I could also focus on increasing intensity by reducing the rest time between sets, whilst maintaining 70kg x 12 reps ??

Reducing rest between sets is one way to increase intensity. But don't rush yourself. Be mentally ready for each set.





or should I focus on just lifting maybe 2.5kg heavier next time?

I think we cleared that up.





Sorry to ask "stupid" questions, but there's something wrong in my workouts or diet and I'm trying to figure it out. I mean, if it takes me 15-20 minutes to do just 4 sets of squats I'm thinking maybe there's too much rest time in there.

Maybe a little bit. 15 minutes for squats sounds fine. Not a big problem. I'll spend 30 minutes doing squats if I am doing 5 or 6 sets for 15+ reps (going ALL the way down).





I don't do the movements quickly - I make sure I move slow and controlled and as low as I can (unless I wimp out lol)...


Control is good, but you don't need to move too slowly. A smooth motion up and down.




anyway I'm guessing I rest at least 3-4 minutes between each set maybe that's too much... I find this only really happens with squats, other exercises I can get away with maybe 2 minute resting periods max...

I want to thank you for your help and conversation, I just want you to know that I am appreciative of your advice, since I'm someone who obviously needs some education in muscle development.


No problem bro. That's what I'm here for. I'm certainly not the know-it-all guy, but I can guide you as far as I have learned from experience, and from advice from lots of good bros here.




By the way, you look huge in your avatar. I dream to get that big lol... how long has it been for you to get that big?


Novemeber of 2007 I was 175 lbs @ about 9% BF. I am 219 @ about 10% right now at 6ft 2 inches. I have been as much as 228 (14% BF), but I hurt my back squatting and lost a lot of lower body mass. I should be 223-225lbs at my current BF level. Now that I can do deadlifts again (no more squats for me ) I'll gain my lower body mass back quickly. I'll be up to 235 by the end of the year hopefully under 12% BF. If not under 12%, I'll be closer to 240lbs.

^^^

 

[JoeMyBro]

Thanks again man. I'll see how things go for a while and report back.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Ok so I've just did some measurements and I'm feeling as though fat gain not optimal. I've been sticking to eating 3500-4000 calories daily, but I feel maybe 3000 should be my goal here? I'm fairly sure my weight gain went up by over 2lbs again in one week, same as last week, and theres no way even half of that is muscle so obviously the fat level is too high??

Ideas? Thoughts? Thanks

 

[dabuffguy]

Ok so I've just did some measurements and I'm feeling as though fat gain not optimal. I've been sticking to eating 3500-4000 calories daily, but I feel maybe 3000 should be my goal here? I'm fairly sure my weight gain went up by over 2lbs again in one week, same as last week, and theres no way even half of that is muscle so obviously the fat level is too high??

Ideas? Thoughts? Thanks

3500 calories is just fine.

You don't need 4000 and I don't recall suggestin you eat that much.

Again, you aren't going to become a fat cow so quit worrying about it.

The scale went up. That's the goal. If you are gaining weight, that means you are probably gaining as much muscle as possible.

How's the workouts going?

 

[JoeMyBro]

Squats: 70kg x 15 reps, x 13 reps, x 12 reps and then x 10 reps.

I haven't made progress with the other exercises, I'm typically exhausted after squats. Especially last workout, I basically didn't try hard on the other exercises after squats because I felt I should only worry about increasing the weight/reps with the squats, maybe that's the wrong attitude but its hard to increase weight on dumbbell lunges, crunches and leg raises. With the stiff-legged deadlifts, I am aware I need to fix my form on that exercise in particular.

What should I aim for next time in regards to squats? 70kg x 15 for all sets? It might be possible, but If I do get stronger that'd mean holding back on the first set since I would go beyond 15 reps.

...and yeah I am getting fat my hips are 2 inches larger (my ass) and my stomach 1 inch in a period of just 1 month. Interesting though my biceps appear to have gone up 0.5 inches but I'm unsure. My chest seems to not want to grow but I can understand as I don't lift very much yet do I!

Definitely gaining fat, no idea if I am gaining ANY muscle. Steroids seem appealing at this time but I am going to avoid them... I think I can reach my goal physique without resorting to them... it's just going to be one hell of a battle.

Goal Physique:
http://burnfatfeedmuscle.org/images/tom-venuto1.jpg

This would be my goal physique... but everyone is different I will look much different to tom venuto but you get the idea of the kind of size and leanness I am aiming for here... hopefully in 10 years I can reach something like this at my peak. I'm just so far from my goal it gets very frustrating and causes me to question everything I do over and over, especially when all I can see is fat gain. Hopefully I'll see some improvements now though...

 

[dabuffguy]

Squats: 70kg x 15 reps, x 13 reps, x 12 reps and then x 10 reps.

I haven't made progress with the other exercises, I'm typically exhausted after squats. Especially last workout, I basically didn't try hard on the other exercises after squats because I felt I should only worry about increasing the weight/reps with the squats, maybe that's the wrong attitude but its hard to increase weight on dumbbell lunges, crunches and leg raises. With the stiff-legged deadlifts, I am aware I need to fix my form on that exercise in particular.

What should I aim for next time in regards to squats? 70kg x 15 for all sets? It might be possible, but If I do get stronger that'd mean holding back on the first set since I would go beyond 15 reps.

Let's stay at 70kg for one more week. If you can do more than 15 reps you first set, then good, and do it.

Yes, squats should be your main focus with legs.




What about upper body lifting?



Oh, and how often are you working out each body part?

 

[JoeMyBro]

Let's stay at 70kg for one more week. If you can do more than 15 reps you first set, then good, and do it.

Ok will do.

Yes, squats should be your main focus with legs.

Good to know, doesn't this make the rest of my workout a waste of time? I end up going for about 1 hour 10 minutes each workout... maybe its best to cut out some "less important" exercises to try to get my routine down to 45-60 minutes?


What about upper body lifting?

I have to get back to you I have my chest workout later today...

Oh, and how often are you working out each body part?

Maybe refer to my workout routine, remember how you helped me change it to be more intense? I believe the answer would then be I work each body part out once per week.

 

[dabuffguy]

Maybe refer to my workout routine, remember how you helped me change it to be more intense? I believe the answer would then be I work each body part out once per week.

I just couldn't remember. Sorry about that. I was in a hurry and didn't have time to scan through all the replies.


Yeah, just do an hour. Do your squats as the main focus, and then whatever other excercises you feel will help you improve.




You are also doing deadlifts, correct? But on a different day than squats (back day)? I think I put you on a 5X5 variation for these.

Let's take a look at those deadlifts too and get a similar type of weight/rep progession going. We aren't aiming to hit failure on these but still lifting heavy; increasing reps, then increasing weight.

 

[dabuffguy]

Bump

 

[SuperStrong]

Hmm ok...

1). My diet is like this most of the time:

Meal 1: Cereal + Whey Protein Shake in Soy Milk (I'm lactose intolerant so soy is my option)
Meal 2: Oatmeal + Tuna in olive oil
Meal 3: Oatmeal + Whey Protein Shake in Soy Milk
Meal 4: Oatmeal + Tuna in olive oil
Meal 5: Oatmeal + Tuna in olive oil
Meal 6: Toast + Peanut Butter + (sometimes) flaxseed oil+extra virgin olive oil combo + Whey Protein Shake in Soy Milk

I haven't read through all the many pages lol, so this may have been addressed already, but this caught my eye and thought i'd give my two cents.

First of all, how many calories are you eating? I would recommend at least 20x your weight since you like you might be somewhat of an ectomorph (body fat isn't much of a concern) and so 20xWeight is just a starting point and you probably will have to increase it as you go along. And if you want to go further you might want to break it down to the calories consisting of 40% protein / 30% carbs / 30% fat. give or take.

Calipers are great to measure, i recommend simple plastic caliper, and just do the one site measurement. It's not accurate per se' in terms of actual % reading but the point of measuring is just to see if your skinfold is increasing (gaining fat), decreasing (loosing fat), or staying the same. Then you can have a decent idea on whether the weight of your scale reading is progress or not. Good thing you seem to be taking pics, i would take them every 2 weeks at least.

Last but not the least, I would not make canned tuna my main source of protein. Canned tuna for the most part is very high in methyl mercury and your body only has a gradual elimination process of it..meaning if you keep eating canned tuna it just further accumulates in your system, not good. There is a canned tuna that advertises "lowest mercury" and i think the brand is King's Tuna or something, best bet is to find it online, and if you are going to use tuna regularly then you should use that.

Also, why soy milk? I personally wouldn't add that to my diet. I believe Raw, organic cow's milk is much better and much healthier - this can be ordered online too if you don't have access to a supermarket that sells this.

Sean's program seems decent especially for natural lifters. So the problem might be in your diet. If you're trying to bulk you need to be eating enough cals. The diet you layed out could be too little cals. How many cups of oatmeal do you eat? Heck I just throw in 3-4 servings into my blender for a shake and drink it in an instant, but I know people like to cook it and that will make you feel full even though 1 serving is like only 20g of carbs...great for cutting but you need more for mass gain.

SS

 

[SuperStrong]

Squats: 70kg x 15 reps, x 13 reps, x 12 reps and then x 10 reps.

I haven't made progress with the other exercises, I'm typically exhausted after squats. Especially last workout, I basically didn't try hard on the other exercises after squats because I felt I should only worry about increasing the weight/reps with the squats, maybe that's the wrong attitude but its hard to increase weight on dumbbell lunges, crunches and leg raises. With the stiff-legged deadlifts, I am aware I need to fix my form on that exercise in particular.

What should I aim for next time in regards to squats? 70kg x 15 for all sets? It might be possible, but If I do get stronger that'd mean holding back on the first set since I would go beyond 15 reps.

...and yeah I am getting fat my hips are 2 inches larger (my ass) and my stomach 1 inch in a period of just 1 month. Interesting though my biceps appear to have gone up 0.5 inches but I'm unsure. My chest seems to not want to grow but I can understand as I don't lift very much yet do I!

Definitely gaining fat, no idea if I am gaining ANY muscle.

This is why you measure using calipers, which I was under the impression you are doing.

Pictures help too. Cuz you can evaluate weekly or biweekly progress.. if you depend on just looking at the mirror it's sort of like watching grass grow, you see it every day so you can't catch the significance of the growth. Snapshots are great in this regard so you can see before&after.

When you are first starting out - don't try to chase two goals, meaning don't try and gain muscle AND loose fat. Focus on one at a time. Sean probably says the same? But the old proverb applies, "he who chases two rabbits catches none."

When you gain muscle you will be gaining fat, so usually you go on a muscle/bulk phase for 12 weeks then take 2 weeks break then resume 12 weeks and you may want to loose fat at the second time around and you adjust calories accordingly and add cardio.

And everyone and anyone will have a different training methodology or oppinion on how to train. I would stick with one and follow it to the T. If you are going to do Sean's then stick with it and follow it through. Just make sure you abide by the fundamentals - diet is in check, you are progressing both in weights and thus calories, form is correct.

Which brings me to exercise form... if you are just starting out you will be building your mind muscle connection. Make sure you are feeling it in the muscle that you are supposed to be working. Concentrate on that muscle maybe even visualize it working as you perform the exercise. Just because you are lifting "heavy" weights doesn't mean you are working the muscle, lift heavy but not too heavy where you are no longer focusing on that muscle. I like to train to failure, but you can even train one set less than failure (and those who advocate that say it's easier on your Central Nervous System thus you recover better) - the important thing is that your numbers increase over time. You should be recording your weights in a journal which i'm assuming you are doing.

SS

 

[JoeMyBro]

Sorry I took so long to get back... lately I've been really concerned with my gains. Visually, there's still no difference, other than fat gain. To be honest, I haven't made an attempt at low calorie days like I should... I find it hard enough getting to 3000 calories even when including some chocolate bars, and with up to 60% of calories from carbs. Perhaps this is the cause of my problem lately...

Since last week, I hadn't gained any weight except 0.1kg lol... most days it was 3500 calories, but admittingly I had half of the week where I went as low as 2400 calories. Still I would think more than 0.1 kg.. it might just be the timing of when I took my weight measurement.

Anyway, here's my workout results so far (note, I had 1 week off, as I have 1 week off after every 8 weeks):

Squats: 70kg x 14, 8, 10, 15
Lunges: skipped it
Stiff Legged Deadlifts: skipped it (I hurt my back doing it.. can't figure out the proper form... I know its as simple as looking it up but I cannot figure it out, even still.)
Calf Raises, Crunches, Leg Raises etc. all standard not really progress on these.

Took 50 mins to complete that workout... I think I'll probably be skipping stiff legged deadlifts until I can figure out proper form. Besides, squats completely wipe me out every damn time.

... and then the following week


Squats: 70kg x 15, 15, 12, 12
Lunges: skipped
Deadlifts: skipped
Calf Raises, Crunches, Leg Raises etc. all standard not really progress on these.

Took 42 minutes this time. I admit I was shotty with the form in squats, I avoided going low most reps because I was scared (literally) of injuring myself... my breathe is taken from me after the first set of 15 reps!!


... since I have chest workout today, and back on saturday, I can only post the previous weeks workouts:

Deadlifts: 85kg x 5, 5, 5, 5, 7
BB Rows: 20kg x 14, 12, 12, 14
DB Rows: 10kg x 15, 15, 15
Shrugs: 62.5kg x 14, 12, 12
BB Curls: 20kg x 17, 12, 9
DB Curls: 20kg x 26
Wrist Curls: 27.5kg x 13

1 week off... then next workout:

Deadlifts: 90kg x 5, 5, 5, 5, 7
BB Rows: 20kg x 14, 14, 14, 12
DB Rows: 10kg x 17, 15, 15
Shrugs: 62.5kg x 15, 15, 10
BB Curls: 22.5kg x 16, 9, 10
DB Curls: 20kg x 28
Wrist Curls: 27.5kg x 14


And for chest workout:

Flat BB Press: 40kg x 14, 12, 10, 13
Incline DB Press: 17.5kg (per dumbbell) x 12, 13, 12, 8
Dips: 77kg x 9, 6, 5
Overhead DB Press: 10kg x 15, 15, 13, 13
DB Side Laterals: skipped
DB Skull Crushers: 10kg x 16, 11, 10
Overhead DB Extensions: skipped

...then 1 week off and next workout:

Flat BB Press: 40kg x 15, 13, 11, 11
Incline DB Press: 17.5kg (per dumbbell) x 13, 10, 8, 7
Dips: 78kg x 7, 6, 5
Overhead DB Press: 10kg x 15, 12, 12, 13
DB Side Laterals: skipped
DB Skull Crushers: 10kg x 16, 10, 10
Overhead DB Extensions: 7.5kg x 10, 10





............. as you can see, I'm not doing so great. I feel like I'm making small improvements on the first exercises. I don't really care much for the others, I just feel like I'm doing them for the sake of it... perhaps I'm better off with a workout revolving around purely the big compound movements? ...then I have shorter workouts?

I am 78kg now. Considering I was, like, 68kg about 4 months ago, gaining 10kg of fat and no muscle to show for it is REALLY making me want to start cutting... I just feel dissapointed overall in my results. I'm not sure if this is how slow it is for others, but in 4 months time I'd have liked to have had something to show, instead of an incredible amount of fat gain... I'm just getting depressed and I'm not sure how good it is for my workouts because of it. I think my limit would be 90kg, since it would take me 6 months to cut down... it will already take me about 4 months to cut down again from this weight... yikes!!