High liver, only 16! uho

[Captain FT]

Huh... well then.

I was suppose to do this bulk for another 8months or more. Close to being through the first month, and i already have high liver lol.
Should i stop the bulk? I really would like to continue on for at minimum 6 months, but i don't want to fuck my liver up for life.. So whats the fine line i can run here?

Bud, at 16 you have all the right ideas in place for a good foundation. Creatine, whey protein, casein, even the Mutant Mass typically aren't bad for you and from what you posted, your diet (for a 16 year old) looks fine. You shouldn't be having any problems with your liver, but because your doctor saw something that concerns him I would suggest you stop everything, as would all the other good guys here on the board.

We're always willing to help, especially the younger guys that want to learn. You're health should come first. Just stop everything for a month, its not a lot of time, and hopefully you'll be back in action after that.

Another thing that you can learn from this board is not just diet, exercise, and the right supplements to take, but also how to be scientific and solve problems. From your doctors point of view he's thinking "Ok what is he putting in his body that could cause this?" Unfortunately, the supplements we take aren't part of a normal diet, so to rule them out just stop for now. If after a month of no supplements (creatine, protein, whatever) you go back and take the test and still have elevate liver enzymes, or fat count, whatever it is, then your doctor will know to move on to some other factor that could cause your issue.

Hopefully its nothing, but you want to be sure. Once you know, keep us posted and we're happy to help out. Good luck bub.

 

[joe d]

Reason i am asking all this, is because i need some SOLID arguments i can use to argue against with my parents =D hahah They would like me to stop bulking, and i told them that i will find out some information as to why its so high, and that im not going to stop until i pick up the paper from my doctor's office.

So with that said, anything i can use? I would assume that with all the high intake during a bulk, my body will naturally adjust to the intake and my levels shall drop back to normal again? I do not drink any alcohol, pop, juice, or anything for that matter. Just water and milk. So any help on some points i can use?

Thanks.

i side with your parents. over eating is over eating. its not healthy. listen to your parents and your doctor. they care about you.

 

[pbhardbody]

Hey Ark94 let me see if I can give you some information that will enable you to at least ask your doctor some more questions that are pointed and will get you some answers so you dont feel left in the dark about what is going on, or even scared. And that would be a normal feeling btw.

Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT a doctor and this is NOT to be considered medical advice.

First - 20 mg of creatine is overkill. 5 mg is plenty for someone who is under about 200 lbs IMO. The rest could be stressing your system. However, creatine is processed by your kidneys, not your liver. One of the levels that may have been tested is your Creatinine. Creatinine is a breakdown product of creatine. A serum creatinine test measures the amount of creatinine in the blood. This test evaluates kidney function. If kidney function is abnormal, creatinine levels will increase in the blood, due to decreased excretion of creatinine in the urine. IMPORTANT: Creatinine levels also vary according to a persons size and muscle mass.

IMO 2 liters of water per day isnt enough. I would double it. This may help to flush your system of some of the creatine build up from taking too much.

Are you taking any beta alanine? Depending on the bloodwork panels that were ran you should have an ALT number, AST number - these are both liver function tests and are indicators of liver disease. ALT is an enzyme involved in the metabolism of the amino acid alanine. If you are taking beta alanine, it could cause your ALT number to be considered "high".

Ask your doctor if he can prescribe a liver cleanse for you. If he doesnt want to, but doesnt say that there is a risk in you taking one, you can get a milder version at your supplement store. Liver Aid can be purchased at most Walmarts.

Also keep in mind that most blood tests have indicators that tell you the normal range based on age, and whether a level is high or low. But if it is dramatic, it will usually also say ALERT by it. Everything is indicated with numbers. So if a level is high you will be able to see how much higher than the range it is. So because a level is slightly high or low does not mean that it isnt something that can be corrected easily.

As Joe D said, alcohol can play a role in liver function. You said you dont drink alcohol so I wont discuss that further.

You asked about your protein powders. Your bloodwork may also have a test called Total Protein. This is a test that measures the total amount of protein in serum (serum is the fluid portion of blood, without fibrinogen). Total protein is a rough measure of serum protein.

Protein measurements can reflect nutritional state, kidney disease, liver disease, and may other conditions. If totatl protein is abnormal, further tests must be performed to identify which protein fraction, and then which specific protein, is abnormal. Serum proteins are grossly separated into albumin and globulins. Meaning total protein equals albumin plus globulin. Those specific tests are generally included on your bloodwork as well.

Make sure that when you get the bloodwork from your doc, you get copies of ALL the panels ran. They may have you sign a release to get it, but either you or your parents should sign it and get the entire paperwork, not just a one page analysis. This will enable you to see a breakdown of everything that was done and what all of your levels are.

IMO you should follow the advice of your doc after talking with him about this. Dont be afraid to ask him pointed questions. He is working for you. Obviously treat him with respect but answering questions is part of what he should do. I wld suggest you take a parent with you. Two people listening to answers is usually better than one.

Also - if you dont feel that he answered your questions with confidence and knowledge, get a second opinion. Go see a specialist.

The most important thing to remember is that you only get one liver. Treat it with respect. I hope this helps.

 

[ark94]

wow pb great read!!! i appreciate that! i was a bit slow to responding because i have been occupied trying to figure stuff out, and work.

I didn't realize i shouldn't be having 20mg of creatine, so i will def. be trying to flush that out by drinking close top 4L of water a day now.

Also im not taking any beta-alanine or any other pills.

I am getting an appointment with my doctor next week, and a dietitian next week also. So hopefully i can get all the answers i need answered next week. I have stopped everything, and revamped my diet completely to something different, but still in a bulk form. I will have post it in here when i get the time, hopefully tomorrow and maybe see if it is fine to help protect my liver.

So just one question i would like verified... no protein powder at all? I haven't had any, but i can't have anything? Not even iso? I never really considered that a supplement, but i stopped it and i guess if i have to, i can go without it for a month. i don't have any left anyways haha so thats why im curious, is if i should even bother buying some.

When i get to the doctors i am going to try and get the full blood test papers, however i am not sure as to what i am going to ask him. still thinking about stuff to ask, but do you have any suggestions? I know its what i want to know, but coming from other people who have gone through a bulk, what things could i ask to bring in perspective? or whatnot.

i appreciate all the help from you all.

 

[d_rson]

Before you completely change everything you are doing, get your blood test results and take them to a rheumatologist. ALT and AST "liver" enzyme levels can be elevated by several other things in your body. A rheumatologist will have more tool available to determine if the elevated values are truly from your liver or possibly your muscles or kidneys. Did they do a GGT? If not, also ask the rheumatologist to do a GGT. Also find what your CPK is.

I'm not a doctor, but I've been through the "elevated liver values" issue too many times, and it was never my liver.

 

[Foxxxy]

Hey Ark94 let me see if I can give you some information that will enable you to at least ask your doctor some more questions that are pointed and will get you some answers so you dont feel left in the dark about what is going on, or even scared. And that would be a normal feeling btw.

Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT a doctor and this is NOT to be considered medical advice.

First - 20 mg of creatine is overkill. 5 mg is plenty for someone who is under about 200 lbs IMO. The rest could be stressing your system. However, creatine is processed by your kidneys, not your liver. One of the levels that may have been tested is your Creatinine. Creatinine is a breakdown product of creatine. A serum creatinine test measures the amount of creatinine in the blood. This test evaluates kidney function. If kidney function is abnormal, creatinine levels will increase in the blood, due to decreased excretion of creatinine in the urine. IMPORTANT: Creatinine levels also vary according to a persons size and muscle mass.

IMO 2 liters of water per day isnt enough. I would double it. This may help to flush your system of some of the creatine build up from taking too much.

Are you taking any beta alanine? Depending on the bloodwork panels that were ran you should have an ALT number, AST number - these are both liver function tests and are indicators of liver disease. ALT is an enzyme involved in the metabolism of the amino acid alanine. If you are taking beta alanine, it could cause your ALT number to be considered "high".

Ask your doctor if he can prescribe a liver cleanse for you. If he doesnt want to, but doesnt say that there is a risk in you taking one, you can get a milder version at your supplement store. Liver Aid can be purchased at most Walmarts.

Also keep in mind that most blood tests have indicators that tell you the normal range based on age, and whether a level is high or low. But if it is dramatic, it will usually also say ALERT by it. Everything is indicated with numbers. So if a level is high you will be able to see how much higher than the range it is. So because a level is slightly high or low does not mean that it isnt something that can be corrected easily.

As Joe D said, alcohol can play a role in liver function. You said you dont drink alcohol so I wont discuss that further.

You asked about your protein powders. Your bloodwork may also have a test called Total Protein. This is a test that measures the total amount of protein in serum (serum is the fluid portion of blood, without fibrinogen). Total protein is a rough measure of serum protein.

Protein measurements can reflect nutritional state, kidney disease, liver disease, and may other conditions. If totatl protein is abnormal, further tests must be performed to identify which protein fraction, and then which specific protein, is abnormal. Serum proteins are grossly separated into albumin and globulins. Meaning total protein equals albumin plus globulin. Those specific tests are generally included on your bloodwork as well.

Make sure that when you get the bloodwork from your doc, you get copies of ALL the panels ran. They may have you sign a release to get it, but either you or your parents should sign it and get the entire paperwork, not just a one page analysis. This will enable you to see a breakdown of everything that was done and what all of your levels are.

IMO you should follow the advice of your doc after talking with him about this. Dont be afraid to ask him pointed questions. He is working for you. Obviously treat him with respect but answering questions is part of what he should do. I wld suggest you take a parent with you. Two people listening to answers is usually better than one.

Also - if you dont feel that he answered your questions with confidence and knowledge, get a second opinion. Go see a specialist.

The most important thing to remember is that you only get one liver. Treat it with respect. I hope this helps.

+1 great advice, i sure learned something today.


btw ark94 take joe d's , and everybody Else's advice and just drop everything.

 

[OrbitNutrition.com]

To high of protein can cause higher liver values, once you stop eating so much protein it should go down.

 

[pbhardbody]

To high of protein can cause higher liver values, once you stop eating so much protein it should go down.

Orbit is correct.

You need to figure up your macros and take in the correct amount of protein based on lean muscle weight to get a more accurate intake.

But again - go ahead and stop everything, and then you can establish a baseline to work against when your bloodwork is done again.

As far as questions to ask your doctor -- ask him to go through the different panels of the bloodwork and explain what they mean, what your levels are versus the range, and what you can/should do to correct those.

Nothing wrong with asking him to provide you with more detail than he already has. You need to learn about this in the process of correcting it too.

 

[ark94]

Orbit is correct.

You need to figure up your macros and take in the correct amount of protein based on lean muscle weight to get a more accurate intake.

But again - go ahead and stop everything, and then you can establish a baseline to work against when your bloodwork is done again.

As far as questions to ask your doctor -- ask him to go through the different panels of the bloodwork and explain what they mean, what your levels are versus the range, and what you can/should do to correct those.

Nothing wrong with asking him to provide you with more detail than he already has. You need to learn about this in the process of correcting it too.

Yeah i really want to learn how to do macros. And i have a little bit of an idea, but not definite. I am starting macro tracking hopefully next week, i got a long weekend so im going to learn about it, and find out how to do it. I really have no idea, joe d suggested fitday for recording macros. So i will give that a shot.

 

[pbhardbody]

Yeah i really want to learn how to do macros. And i have a little bit of an idea, but not definite. I am starting macro tracking hopefully next week, i got a long weekend so im going to learn about it, and find out how to do it. I really have no idea, joe d suggested fitday for recording macros. So i will give that a shot.

You probably can find good info here on EF too.