CrossFit and Gear?

[Catman22]

Hi Guys,

I have seen over the past 6months or so that CrossFit is really taking off as a training system in the UK! It is getting more and more popular and is getting a lot of interest from sportsmen (not so much body builders)and regular trainers who are swearing by the results.

As a sportsman I am planning a cycle for the beginning of 2012, I am planning on incorporating strength, power and crossfit training in an attempt to improve overall performance moderately rather than increase one facet of my game/physique dramatically.

Basically I want to put on (keep) 10-15lbs or so while dropping a small amount or maintaining body fat (currently around 12-14%)and gain strength, power, speed and maintain or gain endurance.

I know it is ambitious and a bit counter productive to try to improve everything but I want to see how successful it could be.

I was wondering if anyone has done a lot of crossfit while on cycle. I'm not saying done just crossfit, but a lot of it.

If so:
What cycle did you run?
How much crossfit did you do?
What sort of results did you get?
What would you run in the future?
Did you get any problems with calf and back pumps during WODs?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance guys.

 

[Judo Tom]

dont do more than 2 days of crossfit per week if you wanna gain. it will not help 1-2 tough metcons a week is more then enough and while on cycle i would prioritize gaining weight.. endurance is easy

run a low dose or you risk major problems.. i would not go over 500mg of juice and even that will require a lot of work to prevent cramps and serious issues w/ your heart rate, bp, blood volume, cramps and injuries.. DONT take that lightly..

you will need to limit carbs pre workout, drink around 2 gallons of water a day, 10-20g of taurine, calcium,mag,zinc supps.. etc etc..

IMO its gonna be 100x easier to just cycle and do 1-4 crossfit wods per MONTH while on cycle and after the cycle then start adding in 1 a week.. then maybe 2 a week while doing 3-4 strength only workouts..

do you play a sport? is it intense and beat you up? what sport and what is your training like? if its rugby or wrestling or something else that is intense you need to be able to make adjustments and scale down the training to get the most out of it.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ excellent advice from judo.

to the OP: you will notice what crossfit guys look like. they are not bodybuilders. they are much leaner, have better cardio, but are not as strong as lifters. overall they are in great shape, bodybuilders meanwhile strive for mass.. its 2 different things. so if you want to go the crossfit route then dedicate yourself to that, but if you want mass and strength stick to the weight room.

everyone wants to do both.. you CAN'T be good at both. pick 1 and go with it. maybe do crossfit for 6 months and see if you love it.. a buddy of mine used to be a gym rat, now he just does crossfit.. his top line strength is way down but he looks leaner and he has very good endurance.

as for cyling during crossfit. as judo says it will help you some, but it will hurt you with pumps and a hit in your endurance. so i would be very careful running a cycle with it.

 

[Catman22]

Great advice thank you both.
I am not trying to body build, the aesthetics do not bother me so much so I am not training solely for mass or muscle gain, I train for strength and performance.

As you guessed Judo I am a rugby player, this is the reason I wanted to IMPROVE (not master) both rather than one.
If I put on too much mass my cardio and rugby perfomance will suffer.
If I do too much endurance I will lose too much mass and potentially strength and power needed for my sport.

So I am only trying to improve all round by a small amount rather than excelling in one facet of training (strength/power/endurance etc)

Judo, have you run a cycle while doing crossfit/crossfit style sessions?

I agree with what you say and I will probably only do short (strength biased) met cons while on cycle (between 2-7mins) and concentrate on the lifting more than anything, I will limit the long metcons as much as possible.

I was thinking of running test prop, var and HGH for strength, power and endurance all round???

Thanks again!

 

[Judo Tom]

just some advice.. read up on periodization.. just to give you an idea how a lot of people in your boat train.. prioritize 1 thing.. then the next etc etc

what is your schedule like

if you are already strong.. you might just want to do crossfit and then 2 days of strength a week.. look into wendler

id just run test at a low dose like 300-500 id skip the pop and hgh is fine if you want

 

[Zyglamail]

Any AAS or dose that is going to cause a BP increase or RBC increase or will cause "pumps" will cripple you during a crossfit workout.

Many CF workouts you pushing hard as you can and flirting with max hear rates. Do that with high BP and your asking for trouble!

If your RBC gets raised you will have a significant reduction in performance AND likely cause heart hypertrophy due to the extra viscosity of your blood, not a good thing!

Any dose high enough to cause sever pumps during a normal hypertrophy workout will become debilitating during a crossfit workout where the weights may be rather light but your spending a lot of time under the bar, holding the bar etc. Your muscles will knot up so bad you'll be lucky to finish a workout.

 

[Whiskey]

Ugh, my lower back is killing me thinking about it

Whiskey

 

[Lambruh]

EPO and carbs for xfit brother

 

[Catman22]

Thanks again for all the advice guys.

Judo, I have done periodization in my training over the last few years, normally hypertrophy > strength > power > hypertrophy etc.

I am pretty strong to start but would love to up this, I suppose if I did a 8 week cycle I could up the training frequency and get 2 weeks of each phase and an extra 2 weeks to finish on what I thought I needed most work on?

I would have to get some cardio done anyway and will try and keep a metcon in there too, maybe some tabata!

What sort of training have you done on cycle judo?

Cheers

 

[Judo Tom]

imo you can do a bit of everything but still focus on one factor..

also one thing worth giving a shot that comes as close as possible to maximizing everything for an athlete would be to do wendler 5/3/1 and crossfit 2-3x a week.

again keep the dosage low.. spend the extra money on PROTEIN

 

[Catman22]

Sounds good judo,
How low?
I was thinking of running Var (40-60mg ed) and Test Prop (100mg ed)
Would that be too high?
Yea I was thinking of running 5/3/1 but just calculating rolling %max rather than sticking to a set max (i.e. when my max increases I will take the percentage of the new max rather than sticking to % of the original max?)

 

[stevesmi]

i would recommend also an improvement in your diet.. i know a lot of crossfit guys love the Paleo diet which is very similar to a good bodybuilder diet. both feed on real food, not processed.

 

[Judo Tom]

Sounds good judo,
How low?
I was thinking of running Var (40-60mg ed) and Test Prop (100mg ed)
Would that be too high?
Yea I was thinking of running 5/3/1 but just calculating rolling %max rather than sticking to a set max (i.e. when my max increases I will take the percentage of the new max rather than sticking to % of the original max?)

I think thats WAY to high.. start w/ half of all that.. and dont be surprised if you wanna go lower.

700mg of prop might cripple you during runs/cardio stuff like that

go 5/3/1 and just increase bench/press 5lbs a month and squat/deads 10 a month and it will work out nicely for a while.. in a few months just recalculate and see how it goes

 

[Catman22]

OK judo sounds good!
So something like 40mg var and 50mg prop ed?
Really appreciate all the advice!

And Stevesmi, yea I follow paleo and eat very clean, I would obviously up the food intake on cycle.

 

[Judo Tom]

give that a try and just be willing to adjust as necessary.. about a week in you will be going full blast and just see how you feel.. it might take some more time for the rbc levels to peak so again dont be freaked out if you have to lower it.. remember if performance is your goal stay focused on that not dosage.

 

[Catman22]

give that a try and just be willing to adjust as necessary.. about a week in you will be going full blast and just see how you feel.. it might take some more time for the rbc levels to peak so again dont be freaked out if you have to lower it.. remember if performance is your goal stay focused on that not dosage.

Thanks again Judo, sorry to ask a stupid question but what is RBC?
Red Blood Count?

Yea I will start off lower and try to find the sweet spot.

What sort of sides should I be looking for if the does is too high? Just big pumps, or any other indicators?

I know taurine is meant to help with pumps, I was also going to use beta alanine, arganine, citruline mallate, d-aspartic acid, glutamine, and obviously creatine.
Any other supplements I should look into to help?

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks again Judo, sorry to ask a stupid question but what is RBC?
Red Blood Count?

Yea I will start off lower and try to find the sweet spot.

What sort of sides should I be looking for if the does is too high? Just big pumps, or any other indicators?

I know taurine is meant to help with pumps, I was also going to use beta alanine, arganine, citruline mallate, d-aspartic acid, glutamine, and obviously creatine.
Any other supplements I should look into to help?

yes, rbc is red blood cell count. High rbc raises viscosity of blood raises BP and outright causes the heart to work harder 24x7. ultimatly causing thickening of walls and heart problems.

 

[Catman22]

yes, rbc is red blood cell count. High rbc raises viscosity of blood raises BP and outright causes the heart to work harder 24x7. ultimatly causing thickening of walls and heart problems.

Thanks Zyglamail!
Surely a raised RBC would be beneficial to endurance though as RBCs carry oxygen to the muscles?
Obviously if they raise too high then that would be bad, is there a way of telling if my RBC count is up without blood work?

 

[joeblow12345]

Hi Guys,

I have seen over the past 6months or so that CrossFit is really taking off as a training system in the UK! It is getting more and more popular and is getting a lot of interest from sportsmen (not so much body builders)and regular trainers who are swearing by the results.

As a sportsman I am planning a cycle for the beginning of 2012, I am planning on incorporating strength, power and crossfit training in an attempt to improve overall performance moderately rather than increase one facet of my game/physique dramatically.

Basically I want to put on (keep) 10-15lbs or so while dropping a small amount or maintaining body fat (currently around 12-14%)and gain strength, power, speed and maintain or gain endurance.

I know it is ambitious and a bit counter productive to try to improve everything but I want to see how successful it could be.

I was wondering if anyone has done a lot of crossfit while on cycle. I'm not saying done just crossfit, but a lot of it.

If so:
What cycle did you run?
How much crossfit did you do?
What sort of results did you get?
What would you run in the future?
Did you get any problems with calf and back pumps during WODs?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance guys.

Honestly you can only serve one master. You are either going to be great at one thing or mediocre at many things. The thing about juice is you have to tailor cycles to meet specific needs. You cant be big, strong, lean, fast, explosive, and have a high endurance at the same time. Thats why using aas while trying to excell at crossfit is tough. If one area improves the others invariably will suffer. For instance If you gain mass youll lose speed and endurance. I would stay natural and hit it hard, then if your goals change in the future you have the option to juice for that purpose.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[Catman22]

Honestly you can only serve one master. You are either going to be great at one thing or mediocre at many things. The thing about juice is you have to tailor cycles to meet specific needs. You cant be big, strong, lean, fast, explosive, and have a high endurance at the same time. Thats why using aas while trying to excell at crossfit is tough. If one area improves the others invariably will suffer. For instance If you gain mass youll lose speed and endurance. I would stay natural and hit it hard, then if your goals change in the future you have the option to juice for that purpose.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

Thanks for the input Joe,

But I am not doing the cycle to get good or better at crossfit, crossfit is just the training I am including in my programming to improve as a sportsman!

I play rugby and it would undoubtedly be an advantage to me to increase size and strength, hopefully power too.
I just dont want my cardio or speed to suffer TOO much with these increases.

It is about the sport for me, not the crossfit.

I would happily increase my max lifts by 10kgs and lose a little bit of speed and endurance but what I'm saying is I would rather do that than put on 20kg on my max lifts and lose a ton of speed and endurance?

Cheers

 

[Judo Tom]

Thanks again Judo, sorry to ask a stupid question but what is RBC?
Red Blood Count?

Yea I will start off lower and try to find the sweet spot.

What sort of sides should I be looking for if the does is too high? Just big pumps, or any other indicators?

I know taurine is meant to help with pumps, I was also going to use beta alanine, arganine, citruline mallate, d-aspartic acid, glutamine, and obviously creatine.
Any other supplements I should look into to help?

a small bump in your rbc is beneficial.. a huge bump will hurt it and as zyg pointed out is dangerous.. ESPECIALLY for 'endurance' athletes..

you can look to supplement with baby aspirin, any high blood pressure supps like n2guard, drink lots of water, etc and that will all help but if you are on lets say 1g of sauce no way you are going to perform as well on the field.

taurine will definitely help w/ pumps.. ive used 10g's when i was on beast and a high carb diet and it really helped out big time.

also you will be shocked at how well you can recover and increase strength on 300-400mg of test with a GREAT diet and GREAT supps. often athletes will take in 300+ grams of protein but if you do that while on test it is utilized so much more effectively and you will rarely have that run down feeling.

if you are set on var id go 350mg of test 20mg of var and see how that goes..

Good Luck!

 

[Catman22]

a small bump in your rbc is beneficial.. a huge bump will hurt it and as zyg pointed out is dangerous.. ESPECIALLY for 'endurance' athletes..

you can look to supplement with baby aspirin, any high blood pressure supps like n2guard, drink lots of water, etc and that will all help but if you are on lets say 1g of sauce no way you are going to perform as well on the field.

taurine will definitely help w/ pumps.. ive used 10g's when i was on beast and a high carb diet and it really helped out big time.

also you will be shocked at how well you can recover and increase strength on 300-400mg of test with a GREAT diet and GREAT supps. often athletes will take in 300+ grams of protein but if you do that while on test it is utilized so much more effectively and you will rarely have that run down feeling.

if you are set on var id go 350mg of test 20mg of var and see how that goes..

Good Luck!

Great, thanks Judo!

The proposed Cycle I have put together with all the info and help I have received on the forum and my own experience is:

8 WEEKS
50mg Test Prop ED (potentially going up to 100mg depending on feeling)
20mg Var ED (potentially going up to 40-60mg depending on feeling)
Bulbine and Tribulus E/D
Creatine up to 10g E/D
Taurine up to 10g E/D
N2Guard E/D
HCGenerate Start week 5 E/D

PCT
Forma Stanzol (week 9-10)
Unleashed (week 11-12)
Post Cycle (week 11-12)
HCGen (continued week 5-12)
Bulbine and Tribulus E/D

Anything I've missed?

 

[Judo Tom]

that looks real solid. take in a ton of protein and get some good sleep and you will be amazed at the benefits.

 

[Catman22]

that looks real solid. take in a ton of protein and get some good sleep and you will be amazed at the benefits.

Great, thanks for your help and support Judo, really appreciate it!

My diet is pretty solid, like I say my supplements get sorted through rugby so that's a big bonus.

I will log the cycle on a new thread once I have started it, looking forward to seeing some gains!

Cheers

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks Zyglamail!
Surely a raised RBC would be beneficial to endurance though as RBCs carry oxygen to the muscles?
Obviously if they raise too high then that would be bad, is there a way of telling if my RBC count is up without blood work?

Thats why I said its a double edged sword, yes more oxygen carrying red blood cells is good, but there comes a point when the blood becomes too hard to pump so even though there is more oxygen in the blood it doesnt move as rapidly which means the oxygen cant get to where its needed.

Even withing lab norms I can feel a difference when my RBC gets near high end of lab range. Heart rate rises faster and slows slower.

No real way to tell what RBC is without some lab work, I think manay clinics have the basics to check RBC though.

 

[Catman22]

Thanks a lot Zyglamail, very helpful throughout this post.
Appreciate it.
Well here goes nothing!