"BRIDGING" -- Done Right

[Nelson Montana]

PCT helps ..and it's the best we've got ..and certainly better than nothing ..BUT lets not kid ourselves, 4wks of PCT is not going to get your hormones back to your original starting point ..sorry

I know everyone is different, but even so, it woiuld take months (but likely way longer) even with PCT ancillaries ..and then you'd have to gradually taper yourself off of those back to a "natural" state

and if you run TREN DECA ..it gets even more complicated

long story short ..most of us (if not ALL of us) in this game start the next cycle without restoring homeostasis/equilibrium to our hormones/body ..which only seves to further compound the problem

Absolutely true, especially with Tren and Deca. There is, and never will be, a surefire cure for severe damage. But cycling can be done in a way where you make steady gains and hold them, AND RECUPERATE.

This is why I recommened shorter cycles and it's also why I love Primo. Back when I was cycling I DID recover. (Until I hit about 47 and was never going to have the levels I had at 20, so I just went on HRT). But honestly, I spent thousands of dollars on stuff, experimenting along the way. I STILL use what I believe is helpful (and has been shown effective via blood tests) and for that reason I still produce some natural T. My level usually comes in at 900 or so on only 100 mgs of T a week. But again, I'm a little nuts with this stuff. Even at cost, it isn't cheap -- which is why it's debatable to have all the "good stuff" in a single formula.

I'll tell you what. If it just isn't feasable, I'll list all the things in a future post that I think would work and you can buy them separately. Well, most of them. Some are a bitch to find and have to be ordered from foreign sources. Not that some of you aren't used to that. : )

 

[sonicwaste]

We are talking about a healthy natural alternative to staying on steroids between cycles. Lets face it even with the best pct you will still lose gains. I have done both pct and stayed on. AAAH staying on works waaaaaaaaaay better lol. And anyone who has stayed on knows damn well staying on a works better. No matter if you got the best damn pct in the word you are still coming off and you are still going to lose a bunch of gains (sooner or later) if you do not get back on soon. Its just a simple fact.

So With that in mind I would love to have a product that brings people to as close to on as you can be with out being on. Make it not only save the gains but bring levels back to normal too. Something healthy.

Anyway just researching and working on it now. Will it be a product in any ones hands in the next month PFFFT doubt it. Something like this takes a long time. But I would love to make it a reality.

I don't totally agree that you will eventually lose a lot of your gains by coming off. I came off in fall 2003 and continued to work out through 2004. I didn't lose anything to speak of. The in 2004 I quit working out all together. I didn't work out at all from end of 2004 until then end of 2008. In those years I went from 8%bf to 15%bf and I lost about 8-10lbs of muscle. This was no working out for 4 years! and only 8lbs muscle lost. I got back on in March of this year and within the first 6 weeks I had gained back most of the muscle lost.

I think if you are packing 220 plus at low body fat you are probably at the point where your body can't sustain the added muscle without AAS. But being in the lower range, I think the body is still capable of holding on to the mass as long as you keep training.

Just my thoughts

 

[doublebicep]

A natural product for "in-between" cycles. How would this differ from unleashed? Would it be a super-set of unleashed?

I am definitely interested.

 

[joe d]

I don't totally agree that you will eventually lose a lot of your gains by coming off. I came off in fall 2003 and continued to work out through 2004. I didn't lose anything to speak of. The in 2004 I quit working out all together. I didn't work out at all from end of 2004 until then end of 2008. In those years I went from 8%bf to 15%bf and I lost about 8-10lbs of muscle. This was no working out for 4 years! and only 8lbs muscle lost. I got back on in March of this year and within the first 6 weeks I had gained back most of the muscle lost.

I think if you are packing 220 plus at low body fat you are probably at the point where your body can't sustain the added muscle without AAS. But being in the lower range, I think the body is still capable of holding on to the mass as long as you keep training.

Just my thoughts

thats the thing. you wherent ready for aas yet. aas is much better saved to pass your natural limitations not to try and rush things. there is no set weight its different for everyone. its all in the genetics.

bottom line:
if you are holding more mass than you could of naturally you WILL lose all of that additional mass if you stop the gear. the bigger you get the harder it is to keep and the more gear it takes to keep it and the more gear it takes to continue to grow. eventually it will get to a point where your body will not be able to handle any more and it will shut down if you cross that line. some push farther than others.

 

[sonicwaste]

Needto and Nelson:

What do you guys think about the possibilities of running igf, sarm, and protein peptides during PCT and in between cycles?

I've had a good run with IGF-1 LR3. I know the verdict is still out on SARM, but these things could be promising for retaining gains and continue to gain post cycle. Even if the gains are small, I'd be happy to gain 3-5lbs between cycles. Perhaps that is wishful thinking from igf, sarm, and peptides but still possible.

I am very curious to know you guys' throughts on it.

 

[dabuffguy]

If you want to bridge or stay on, just go into HRT permanently and be done with it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'll try to answer all the questions in one shot.

UNLEASHED is great for in-between and would recommend its use, even with the other stuff. What I was thinking about for this products was something that would work along other pathways -- anti-catabolism, blood volume, total T production etc.

Peptides can help,though they're pricy. And IGF is a drug and not without its risks, And SARMS--well, we just don;t know enough yet.

I would not advice anyone under 40 to go on HRT. There's no need for it if the right precautions are made.

 

[Ross]

I am guessing Unleashed and big blast are your products you sell nelson?

AS for low Dose AAS protocols....my belief is once someone passes thier bodies genetic set point for how much hormone support and muscle mass can be held naturally "bridging" is the most obvious choice to maintain this larger than intended size.
The simple fact is the body needs its support networks and high enough hormone levels to maintain extreme amounts of size.



For the average guy looking to get bigger this does not apply. But for the competitive BBer I beleive at some point it becomes essential.


I utilie some bridging in my personal use. My most common being
Day 1 250mg primo 50 mg test prop
Days 8-22 500 iu HCG

then repeat. I wont do this for more than 2 cycles before it becomes ineffective. So the next logical choice are non-AAS cycles(GH, Slin, T-3, Clen, Ephedra, etc)


seems to work well to miantain or increase lean Muscle mass in between my higher dose AAS use

Awesome Post!!

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I think the idea of the product itself is fantastic. With Needto and Nelson working together on it, it makes it that much better IMHO.

This coming cycle of 11-12 weeks will be my last long one. After that I was going to 6 weekers from now on.

I was entertaining the idea of doing something like

cycle week 1-6
pct or hcg 7-12
cycle again 13-18
19-22 PCT again
then 12 weeks off minimum.

. With some sort of HCG or PCT in the middle 6 weeks and again at the end. Bad idea? Or would this product be perfect for the in between phase?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think the idea of the product itself is fantastic. With Needto and Nelson working together on it, it makes it that much better IMHO.

This coming cycle of 11-12 weeks will be my last long one. After that I was going to 6 weekers from now on.

I was entertaining the idea of doing something like

cycle week 1-6
pct or hcg 7-12
cycle again 13-18
19-22 PCT again
then 12 weeks off minimum.

. With some sort of HCG or PCT in the middle 6 weeks and again at the end. Bad idea? Or would this product be perfect for the in between phase?

I'd try to stay off a little longer than 6 weeks to stabilize the HPTA. Other than that, looks good. And yes, UNLEASHED will help and if everything is done according to what I had in mind, it too will help you recover quicker and help prevent muscle loss.