Intermittent fasting and steroid use?

[notjake11]

1. It takes far longer than 12 or even 24 hours to be put into starvation state. I've done a period of using IF with no AAS where I lost substantial amounts of bodyfat (20+ pounds) while ADDING lean mass (5+ pounds). That doesn't exactly sound like starvation mode. The authors of Eat Stop Eat site studies done on troops going into basic training busting ass all day and being kept to a diet of 800 calories per day. All of them lost fat and gained muscle. True starvation mode requies far longer and stricter levels of deprivation than most people can understand.

2. Maybe you don't, but different eating patterns work for different people. For some, six small meals a day keeps them satisfied and works. Others do a big breakfast, normal lunch and small dinner. Me, I have issues with portion control and once I start eating I have a very hard time stopping. I am healthy now, but have the appetite of a fat kid. FOR ME, holding off breaking my fast works. It keeps my appetite under control. After being back on IF for two weeks, I don't even feel a hint of hunger until 2 or 3 in the afternoon. I intentionally time my workouts to be just before my fast is going to end so I can get the benefits of the IF and still ahve the benefits of the post workout shake and subsequent feeding. Will this work for everyone? No. I know plenty of people that would start to chew on their arm if they went more than a few hours without eating. Does it work for me? Hell yes.

3. It's hard for there to be a placebo when I first noticed I am stronger in a fasted state 15 years ago, a full decade before I ever heard of IF. I noticed when I was still in school that my lifts when I worked out in the morning before eating were all higher than the same workouts done after class when I'd eaten once or twice already that day.

All that being said, I only have experience (and all the research I have seen/read applies to) IF as applied in the absense of AAS. I have only done one cycle of AAS (a puretly oral cycle in the fall) and am still learning about the subject. I don't know enough to know how that would affect things, so that subject would be the realm of Rick as he's the expert in that area as far as I know.

 

[Nelson Montana]

1. It takes far longer than 12 or even 24 hours to be put into starvation state. I've done a period of using IF with no AAS where I lost substantial amounts of bodyfat (20+ pounds) while ADDING lean mass (5+ pounds). That doesn't exactly sound like starvation mode. The authors of Eat Stop Eat site studies done on troops going into basic training busting ass all day and being kept to a diet of 800 calories per day. All of them lost fat and gained muscle. True starvation mode requies far longer and stricter levels of deprivation than most people can understand.

2. Maybe you don't, but different eating patterns work for different people. For some, six small meals a day keeps them satisfied and works. Others do a big breakfast, normal lunch and small dinner. Me, I have issues with portion control and once I start eating I have a very hard time stopping. I am healthy now, but have the appetite of a fat kid. FOR ME, holding off breaking my fast works. It keeps my appetite under control. After being back on IF for two weeks, I don't even feel a hint of hunger until 2 or 3 in the afternoon. I intentionally time my workouts to be just before my fast is going to end so I can get the benefits of the IF and still ahve the benefits of the post workout shake and subsequent feeding. Will this work for everyone? No. I know plenty of people that would start to chew on their arm if they went more than a few hours without eating. Does it work for me? Hell yes.

3. It's hard for there to be a placebo when I first noticed I am stronger in a fasted state 15 years ago, a full decade before I ever heard of IF. I noticed when I was still in school that my lifts when I worked out in the morning before eating were all higher than the same workouts done after class when I'd eaten once or twice already that day.

All that being said, I only have experience (and all the research I have seen/read applies to) IF as applied in the absense of AAS. I have only done one cycle of AAS (a puretly oral cycle in the fall) and am still learning about the subject. I don't know enough to know how that would affect things, so that subject would be the realm of Rick as he's the expert in that area as far as I know.

RIck is an expert because he agrees with you? lol Okay.

Then fact that you have issues with portion control make make fasting a better option that over eating but it still is not an advantage to eating properly.

 

[notjake11]

I'm not saying Rick is an expert because we agree. In fact, my personal opinion is that many cycles would be incompatible with IF. Given what I have read and learned about Tren, for example, going 16 hours without carbs while on that compound would be a horrible idea.

My choice of the word expert was not meant to imply he was a world class authority on the subject. Expert and experience derive from the same root - he has more experience/expertise in the area of combining IF and AAS than I do so I would obviously defer to him to speak on that subject.

 

[training700]

I don't see how people can feel as strong or stronger on an empty stomach... I just don't see it. When going for strength/powerlifting type routines feel the need to have food in me before the workout.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[lanier1974]

Leangains style 16/8 intermittent fasting made me the strongest, leanest, happiest I've ever been. My climbing and lifting went through the roof. Energy levels increased. Focus and mental clarity increased. The differene between false hormonal hunger and real hunger was learned, the former eliminated and the later quite comfortable in an animal, carnal way. Hunger management became in my conscious control. I no longer needed to eat every two freaking hours, I ate two huge meals at lunch and dinner, leaned out, grew stronger, and took charge. Now tell me THAT isn't where it's at.

I've kept my IF protocol during this cycle, adding calories, and doing CBL style carb back loading at evenings. Gained muscle.

 

[RickRock13]

You're wrong bro. Tell me one advantage of fasting.

How about utilizing your bodys own insulin levels to partition its nutrients better....or the fact that there are numerous studies showing that people given the same caloric level over a period of time show a bigger decrease in bodyfat when doing fasted eating vs the grazing method while maintaining the same or MORE lean mass.......but I'm not going to spell everything out for you, but take a look at my thread if you want to know or check out Martin Berkhans site Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health. I'm pretty sure he is a lot more qualified to give advice on an IF diet than you are...lol

 

[RickRock13]

Catabolism does not occur in the body until fasting beyond the 30-40 hour mark which never happens on IF. It's the old school method of cutting that is catabolic by putting yourself in a continuous caloric deficit day after day. I've been doing IF for over 2 years now and have put on a considerable amount of mass, and have been between 6-8% bodyfat the entire time. My strength has also went to a whole new level. For instance my bench press is nearing a 400 lb max (245 max before IF) which is well over twice my bodyweight right now. Not too bad for being catabolic for two years huh?

 

[RickRock13]

I don't see how people can feel as strong or stronger on an empty stomach... I just don't see it. When going for strength/powerlifting type routines feel the need to have food in me before the workout.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

I didn't see it either until I did it. Now I know that my fasted workouts are not affected by not having a meal before. Your body is still using energy for a good amount of time from the meals the day before. The only time you may see a drop in performance in my experience is if you were going low carb for a length of time like doing CKD. That is why I don't recommend doing CKD and IF together. I recommend carb cycling, but on a smaller scale (high carbs and cals on workout days with low carbs and low cals on cardio/rest days) deplete glycogen and burn fat on those cardio/rest days and replenish glycogen and build on workout days. Eat and train for your goal

 

[ledhead]

I didn't see it either until I did it. Now I know that my fasted workouts are not affected by not having a meal before. Your body is still using energy for a good amount of time from the meals the day before. The only time you may see a drop in performance in my experience is if you were going low carb for a length of time like doing CKD. That is why I don't recommend doing CKD and IF together. I recommend carb cycling, but on a smaller scale (high carbs and cals on workout days with low carbs and low cals on cardio/rest days) deplete glycogen and burn fat on those cardio/rest days and replenish glycogen and build on workout days. Eat and train for your goal

I don't see anything wrong with that. I do that on my rest days...

 

[RickRock13]

Here is a link to a study about how intermittent fasting is better for retaining lean mass while cutting than just caloric restriction.

Intermittent versus daily calorie restriction: whic... [Obes Rev. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI