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SlimJim300
New member
Messing with our thyroid is serious business. Hopefully this poll will help us see the truths, dangers and myths of synthetic thyroid hormone usage.
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Thyroid dangers in reality? -- EVERYONE VOTES
- Thread starter SlimJim300
- Start date
your thyroid will be supressed after T3 cycle, no matter what. thyroid is like a gland like other glands in the endocrine system it regulates its self throug negative feedback mechanisim. you can still deal with rebounds by using 7-keto, guggle, L-tyrosin. also you should increas you claoric intake slightly because diet supress the thyroid naturaly. Plus using AAS after finishing T3 cycle is a good idea, because your thyroid will be supressed so you wil burn less calorie, so the extra unburnned cals will be good with AAS to back muscle.
HGH man
New member
I see an Endocrine Dr. since 86 because my pituitary has tumor. Part of what he had me on is syntroid. He has me do tests each year to see if it is doing what it is suppose to do,it is.About 5 months ago I decided to have him put me on Armour (T-4 and T-3) and get off Syntroid. According to tests that he put me on to see if Armour did it's thing,it did . I think Armour is better than snytroid,it is all natural .
CLOMIDCLOWN
New member
Yeah, what is the difference (healthwise) of synthetic vs. natural thyroid hormones. I noticed that the mexican version of Armour is natural.
celica
New member
This is a paper that my Dr. gives to his patients with slow thyroid-
Thyroid Dysfunction
At the clinic, we have seen a surprisingly large number of patients, mostly women, who present with an array of symptoms that have gone unaddressed, usually for many years- despite persistent complaining to their doctors. Many of these women have been told that they are crazy or at least have psychological problems and they should seek counsel. This is such a large part of our practice that we feel it warrants a discussion. Almost every day, without fail, someone comes in with complaints consistent with hypothyroidism:
Cold
Constipated
Dry skin
Hair falling out
Swelling and fluid retention
Difficulty in concentrating (brain fog)
Brittle nails
Inability to get fever
Weight gain (or can not get it off)
Coarse skin-especially heels
Yellow palms
Cold feet (the spouses will admit to this!)
These are but a few symptoms.
Hypothyroidism may be the most under-diagnosed condition in this country and may contribute to a world of sluggishness and malady that can easily be remedied with a $5 prescription. The problem is that physicians are not willing to trust their clinical judgement, and would rather place it in the hands of the laboratory technician. It has become commonplace to draw laboratory studies to make determinations on thyroid function. The gold standard has become the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH). We have had many patients who presented to the Clinic, reporting that the other doctor did not lay a hand on them. He did, however do a lab test and determine that their function was normal and therefore so were they. Remind you that this was the specialist, who was being seen only after actually begging the primary care doctor. Most of these patients leave the specialist's office discouraged and disappointed, afterall, he is the specialist. Please do not be discouraged. The symptoms you are experiencing are real and can be abated. You are not crazy.
The problem with all this is the fact that the lab studies can be normal (and usually are most of the time), while the patient can truly be clinically hypothyroid. At the Clinic the majority (greater than 90%) of the patients with suspected hypothyroidism, who are eventually treated with replacement therapy, have normal lab studies.
Have you all become numbers? Why is it that after so many visits, experts have continued to keep you in the same condition that you have been in for years? Why is it that we have been so jaded by the establishment that we continue to ignore the basic facts that are emphasized (hopefully) in our medical training? That is......examine the patient. It is astounding how many people present to the Clinic claiming that no one laid their hands on them. The sad thing is that it is a hands-on diagnosis, and most of the institutions are teaching a hands-off approach.
The Basics
Hypothyroid = Low Thyroid Function
Hyperthyroid = Excessive Thyroid Function
Obviously, these diagnoses are on opposite sides of the spectrum-one high, and one low. However, while the diagnosis of hyperthyroidism can easily be made by laboratory studies, the diagnosis of hypothyroidism very rarely follows the labs. Why?
Without becoming too technical, the answers lie within the cells of the body. Inside of the cells of the body. From a laboratory stand point, we measure the thyroid function by peripheral blood work. We cannot determine moment by moment activity inside of the cells. This is where the true activity of the thyroid hormone is taking place. Thyroxine (or T4), which is produced in the thyroid gland in the neck, must travel to each and every one of the cells in the body and be converted into Tri-Iodothyronine (T3) inside of the cells of the body. The molecular difference between these two substances is essentially very minuscule (T3 has one less Iodine atom), while the functional difference is what makes this discussion pertinent. T3 is the active hormone. That is, it causes all of the metabolic activity that we discussed previously. T4 does not. It must be converted into T3.
Several things prevent the conversion of T4 to T3:
-Estrogen
-Steroids
-Dieting
-Sugar
-Stress
-Medicines
Why Can't They Fix It?
Perhaps this is just plain oversight. It would seem simple to understand that if you could not convert T4 to T3 then why would you continue to give T4 despite the continuation of symptoms? This is what is going on----if you are lucky enough to get your doctor to give you thyroid replacement medications. Most probably, he/she is giving you Synthroid. Problem? Synthroid is synthetic thyroid (syn/throid), and is composed only of T4. The missing component is T3 and needs to be replaced as well. At the Clinic we use Armour Thyroid. It is a desiccated thyroid hormone from the glands of pigs and cows, which contains all of the components (T4, T3, etc.) and is regulated by the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP). Many physicians will tell you that Armour is not regulated, and this is still quite confusing to us as it bears the USP seal and can be found in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR). They can say what they want, but many thousands of patients have found great relief in replacement therapy with Armour, and a large percentage of those presented while on Synthroid. If you are on Synthroid and you have any of the symptoms listed at the top of the screen, perhaps you should be asking questions. If you have symptoms and your doctor will not address them, get another doctor.
This is not a monopoly.
Find someone who will listen to you. Do not give up. You are not crazy.
Easy Testing For Hypothyroidism:
Basal Body Temperature-One of the most common complaints from people with hypothyroidism is the fact that they have low temperature. Some patients cannot even generate a temperature when they are seriously ill. You may be or know someone who rarely exceeds 98 or 99 degrees at the height of their flu or pneumonia. This may be confusing for those of you who are going through menopause or peri-menopause, but that is for another discussion. In general, you know who you are (Many of you have been dealing with this since childhood). An easy way to evaluate this is to take your resting body temperatures first thing in the morning.
You will need a thermometer which is to be shaken down at night before retiring, and placed on the bedside table. Immediately upon awakening, without stirring (i.e., no excessive movements), reach for and place the thermometer in your mouth. Record the temperature each morning for 10 days. Many of you will be below 97 degrees. Do not let your doctor dismiss these findings, especially in the face of some of the aforementioned.
Exceptional reading for those interested will be found in a book by the late Dr. Broda Barnes entitled Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness.
Thyroid Dysfunction
At the clinic, we have seen a surprisingly large number of patients, mostly women, who present with an array of symptoms that have gone unaddressed, usually for many years- despite persistent complaining to their doctors. Many of these women have been told that they are crazy or at least have psychological problems and they should seek counsel. This is such a large part of our practice that we feel it warrants a discussion. Almost every day, without fail, someone comes in with complaints consistent with hypothyroidism:
Cold
Constipated
Dry skin
Hair falling out
Swelling and fluid retention
Difficulty in concentrating (brain fog)
Brittle nails
Inability to get fever
Weight gain (or can not get it off)
Coarse skin-especially heels
Yellow palms
Cold feet (the spouses will admit to this!)
These are but a few symptoms.
Hypothyroidism may be the most under-diagnosed condition in this country and may contribute to a world of sluggishness and malady that can easily be remedied with a $5 prescription. The problem is that physicians are not willing to trust their clinical judgement, and would rather place it in the hands of the laboratory technician. It has become commonplace to draw laboratory studies to make determinations on thyroid function. The gold standard has become the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH). We have had many patients who presented to the Clinic, reporting that the other doctor did not lay a hand on them. He did, however do a lab test and determine that their function was normal and therefore so were they. Remind you that this was the specialist, who was being seen only after actually begging the primary care doctor. Most of these patients leave the specialist's office discouraged and disappointed, afterall, he is the specialist. Please do not be discouraged. The symptoms you are experiencing are real and can be abated. You are not crazy.
The problem with all this is the fact that the lab studies can be normal (and usually are most of the time), while the patient can truly be clinically hypothyroid. At the Clinic the majority (greater than 90%) of the patients with suspected hypothyroidism, who are eventually treated with replacement therapy, have normal lab studies.
Have you all become numbers? Why is it that after so many visits, experts have continued to keep you in the same condition that you have been in for years? Why is it that we have been so jaded by the establishment that we continue to ignore the basic facts that are emphasized (hopefully) in our medical training? That is......examine the patient. It is astounding how many people present to the Clinic claiming that no one laid their hands on them. The sad thing is that it is a hands-on diagnosis, and most of the institutions are teaching a hands-off approach.
The Basics
Hypothyroid = Low Thyroid Function
Hyperthyroid = Excessive Thyroid Function
Obviously, these diagnoses are on opposite sides of the spectrum-one high, and one low. However, while the diagnosis of hyperthyroidism can easily be made by laboratory studies, the diagnosis of hypothyroidism very rarely follows the labs. Why?
Without becoming too technical, the answers lie within the cells of the body. Inside of the cells of the body. From a laboratory stand point, we measure the thyroid function by peripheral blood work. We cannot determine moment by moment activity inside of the cells. This is where the true activity of the thyroid hormone is taking place. Thyroxine (or T4), which is produced in the thyroid gland in the neck, must travel to each and every one of the cells in the body and be converted into Tri-Iodothyronine (T3) inside of the cells of the body. The molecular difference between these two substances is essentially very minuscule (T3 has one less Iodine atom), while the functional difference is what makes this discussion pertinent. T3 is the active hormone. That is, it causes all of the metabolic activity that we discussed previously. T4 does not. It must be converted into T3.
Several things prevent the conversion of T4 to T3:
-Estrogen
-Steroids
-Dieting
-Sugar
-Stress
-Medicines
Why Can't They Fix It?
Perhaps this is just plain oversight. It would seem simple to understand that if you could not convert T4 to T3 then why would you continue to give T4 despite the continuation of symptoms? This is what is going on----if you are lucky enough to get your doctor to give you thyroid replacement medications. Most probably, he/she is giving you Synthroid. Problem? Synthroid is synthetic thyroid (syn/throid), and is composed only of T4. The missing component is T3 and needs to be replaced as well. At the Clinic we use Armour Thyroid. It is a desiccated thyroid hormone from the glands of pigs and cows, which contains all of the components (T4, T3, etc.) and is regulated by the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP). Many physicians will tell you that Armour is not regulated, and this is still quite confusing to us as it bears the USP seal and can be found in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR). They can say what they want, but many thousands of patients have found great relief in replacement therapy with Armour, and a large percentage of those presented while on Synthroid. If you are on Synthroid and you have any of the symptoms listed at the top of the screen, perhaps you should be asking questions. If you have symptoms and your doctor will not address them, get another doctor.
This is not a monopoly.
Find someone who will listen to you. Do not give up. You are not crazy.
Easy Testing For Hypothyroidism:
Basal Body Temperature-One of the most common complaints from people with hypothyroidism is the fact that they have low temperature. Some patients cannot even generate a temperature when they are seriously ill. You may be or know someone who rarely exceeds 98 or 99 degrees at the height of their flu or pneumonia. This may be confusing for those of you who are going through menopause or peri-menopause, but that is for another discussion. In general, you know who you are (Many of you have been dealing with this since childhood). An easy way to evaluate this is to take your resting body temperatures first thing in the morning.
You will need a thermometer which is to be shaken down at night before retiring, and placed on the bedside table. Immediately upon awakening, without stirring (i.e., no excessive movements), reach for and place the thermometer in your mouth. Record the temperature each morning for 10 days. Many of you will be below 97 degrees. Do not let your doctor dismiss these findings, especially in the face of some of the aforementioned.
Exceptional reading for those interested will be found in a book by the late Dr. Broda Barnes entitled Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness.
juve
New member
Thyroid dangers are extremely overstated, oversimplified and misleading 
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4 Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH
In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days
Patterns off recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis in patients taken of chronic thyroid therapy
LG Krugman, JM Hershman, IJ Chopra, GA Levine, E Pekary, DL Geffner and GN Chua Teco
To determine the patterns of recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary- thyroid axis following long-term thyroid hormone therapy, TRH tests were performed on 8 euthyroid nongoitrous patients, 5 euthyroid goitrous patients, and 5 hypothyroid patients while they were taking full doses of thyroid hormone and 3, 7, 10, 14, 17, 21, 28, 35, 42, 49, and 56 days after stopping it. Serum TSH, T3, and T4 were measured before and at multiple intervals over a 4-h period after giving 500 mug TRH iv. In euthyroid non-goitrous patients, the mean duration of suppressed TSH response to TRH (maximum deltaTSH less than 8 muU/ml) was 12 +/- 4 (SE) days after stopping thyroid hormone and the mean time to recovery of normal TSH response to TRH (maximum deltaTSH greater than 8 muU/ml) was 16 +/- 5 days. None of the euthyroid nongoitrous patients ever hyperresponded to TRH; their average maximal deltaTSH was 24.5 +/- 2.2 muU/ml. Serum T4 fell below normal in 4 euthyroid non- goitrous patients, reaching lowest values at 4 to 28 days. While serum T4 was low, deltaTSH was subnormal. Normal increments of T4 and T3 after TRH occurred at 19 +/- 5 and 22 +/- 6 days, respectively. In the 5 goitrous patients, patterns of recovery of pituitary and thyroid function assessed by the same parameters were much less consistent. In the 5 hypothyroid patients, the mean duration of suppressed basal TSH and suppressed deltaTSH was 13 +/- 3 days; mean time to attain a supranormal basal TSH (greater than 8 muU/ml) was 16 +/- 4 days and to reach a supranormal deltaTSH (greater than 38 muU/ml) after TRH was 29 +/- 8 days. Following prolonged thyroid therapy in euthyroid patients, recovery of normal TSH responsiveness to TRH preceded recovery of the normal T3 and T4 response to TRH by 3 to 6 days. Basal serum TSH may be used to differentiate euthyroid from hypothyroid patients 35 days after withdrawal of thyroid therapy; the response to TRH does not improve this differentiation.
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4 Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH
In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days
Patterns off recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis in patients taken of chronic thyroid therapy
LG Krugman, JM Hershman, IJ Chopra, GA Levine, E Pekary, DL Geffner and GN Chua Teco
To determine the patterns of recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary- thyroid axis following long-term thyroid hormone therapy, TRH tests were performed on 8 euthyroid nongoitrous patients, 5 euthyroid goitrous patients, and 5 hypothyroid patients while they were taking full doses of thyroid hormone and 3, 7, 10, 14, 17, 21, 28, 35, 42, 49, and 56 days after stopping it. Serum TSH, T3, and T4 were measured before and at multiple intervals over a 4-h period after giving 500 mug TRH iv. In euthyroid non-goitrous patients, the mean duration of suppressed TSH response to TRH (maximum deltaTSH less than 8 muU/ml) was 12 +/- 4 (SE) days after stopping thyroid hormone and the mean time to recovery of normal TSH response to TRH (maximum deltaTSH greater than 8 muU/ml) was 16 +/- 5 days. None of the euthyroid nongoitrous patients ever hyperresponded to TRH; their average maximal deltaTSH was 24.5 +/- 2.2 muU/ml. Serum T4 fell below normal in 4 euthyroid non- goitrous patients, reaching lowest values at 4 to 28 days. While serum T4 was low, deltaTSH was subnormal. Normal increments of T4 and T3 after TRH occurred at 19 +/- 5 and 22 +/- 6 days, respectively. In the 5 goitrous patients, patterns of recovery of pituitary and thyroid function assessed by the same parameters were much less consistent. In the 5 hypothyroid patients, the mean duration of suppressed basal TSH and suppressed deltaTSH was 13 +/- 3 days; mean time to attain a supranormal basal TSH (greater than 8 muU/ml) was 16 +/- 4 days and to reach a supranormal deltaTSH (greater than 38 muU/ml) after TRH was 29 +/- 8 days. Following prolonged thyroid therapy in euthyroid patients, recovery of normal TSH responsiveness to TRH preceded recovery of the normal T3 and T4 response to TRH by 3 to 6 days. Basal serum TSH may be used to differentiate euthyroid from hypothyroid patients 35 days after withdrawal of thyroid therapy; the response to TRH does not improve this differentiation.
