Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[|D_J^B_J|]

A few issues I'd like to clarify before starting the program:

- Is the deadlift stiff-legged (Romanian) or bent legged?

- Just to clarify and make sure I understand everything, tell me if what I have written is correct:

The weight should increase each week with the exception of the transition from the loading phase to deloading phase (and if you require an extra week in the deloading phase) and you should aim to hit your PB set of 1 x 5 in week 3, correct?

So, for example, if your PB for one exercise is 200, your program for that exercise of 1 x 5 could look like this:
Week 1: 1 x 5 = 150 (start of loading phase)
Week 2: 1 x 5 = 175
Week 3: 1 x 5 = 200
Week 4: 1 x 5 = 215
Week 5: 1 x 3 = 215 (start of deloading phase)
Week 6: 1 x 3 = 230 (start of intensity phase)
Week 7: 1 x 3 = 250
Week 8: 1 x 3 = 260

- One more thing, the program which I was following for the past month didn't have much structure to it. I was basically doing 4 sets of my PB of 6 reps for each of the core exercises once a week, meaning that I am unsure of what my PB for one pyramid set of 5 clean reps is, but it would not doubt be higher than what I currently lift. Should I still lift below my current PB for weeks 1 and 2, or would it be alright to start at my PB for the 1 x 5?

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

A few issues I'd like to clarify before starting the program:

- Is the deadlift stiff-legged (Romanian) or bent legged?

- Just to clarify and make sure I understand everything, tell me if what I have written is correct:

The weight should increase each week with the exception of the transition from the loading phase to deloading phase (and if you require an extra week in the deloading phase) and you should aim to hit your PB set of 1 x 5 in week 3, correct?

So, for example, if your PB for one exercise is 200, your program for that exercise of 1 x 5 could look like this:
Week 1: 1 x 5 = 150 (start of loading phase)
Week 2: 1 x 5 = 175
Week 3: 1 x 5 = 200
Week 4: 1 x 5 = 215
Week 5: 1 x 3 = 215 (start of deloading phase)
Week 6: 1 x 3 = 230 (start of intensity phase)
Week 7: 1 x 3 = 250
Week 8: 1 x 3 = 260

- One more thing, the program which I was following for the past month didn't have much structure to it. I was basically doing 4 sets of my PB of 6 reps for each of the core exercises once a week, meaning that I am unsure of what my PB for one pyramid set of 5 clean reps is, but it would not doubt be higher than what I currently lift. Should I still lift below my current PB for weeks 1 and 2, or would it be alright to start at my PB for the 1 x 5?

Deadlift is standard not romanian. No touch and go except on warm ups. Every rep of every set settles and deweights completely back on the ground between reps (you don't need to let go and fully reset but the floor should totally be supporting the weight and a little adjustment between reps is common).

Keep in mind that you are scaling to 1x5 records in week 3 (what you have above) as well as independently scaling to 5x5 records in week 3. The bench, squat, row are the only ones with both 5x5 and 1x5 and both of these protocols will be records in week 3 and 4. The Wednesday exercises, all 5x5, also scale to records in weeks 3 and 4 (of course the Wed squat is just a lighter % of your Monday so it isn't really part of this).

 

[edergrimek]

question for Madcow2

First off, I love this program and always thought Bill Starr was the best. I am curious though why you say bench pressing can not be replaced with parallel bar dips. I know Bill Starr has never recommended them in place of benching but always wondered if he would find them to be an acceptable replacement. Ever since reading McCallum and trying them in my routines, I've preferred them slightly over benching for adding mass. This post isn't meant to start an argument and I have no intention of posting an argumentative reply, I am just curious.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: question for Madcow2

First off, I love this program and always thought Bill Starr was the best. I am curious though why you say bench pressing can not be replaced with parallel bar dips. I know Bill Starr has never recommended them in place of benching but always wondered if he would find them to be an acceptable replacement. Ever since reading McCallum and trying them in my routines, I've preferred them slightly over benching for adding mass. This post isn't meant to start an argument and I have no intention of posting an argumentative reply, I am just curious.

More than anything, I'm trying to limit people overly messing with the program. For the overwhelming majority of people today, they will take something, customize it, and then blow it up in the process. I can't really speak to whether Starr would approve of them or not. I think that the dip was in question to replacing the Wednesday pressing workout which is generally overhead or incline and I wasn't for that at all since I'm a big believe in overhead work and dipping is 180 degrees removed. As far as replacing flat bench, I guess people could try it. Dips can be rough on the shoulders for some people. They also aren't as configurable in that you are stuck with bodyweight and above for the duration whereas in the bench press you can go as low as just the bar if need be.

 

[wallcrawler]

Bump

 

[edergrimek]

Thanks for the reply, and good point on not using them to replace overhead work.

 

[Slyder190]

Madcow, can the program be repeated a few times and still produce progress? And is there a point where you must up the calories to increase strength as you progress? I stay fairly lean while bulking and am week 5 of 6 weeks of the volume phase (although I did drop the Weds squats for the final 2 weeks). I decided to run the volume phase for 6 weeks as I had to get a feel for the program and had to estimate a few of my 5x5 maxes based on my 1x5 maxes). I have undoubtedly added strength, but my bodyweight has remained relatively the same. Thanks.

 

[Madcow2]

You shouldn't have dropped the Wed squats while you were still loading. If you chart out your volume per week, you just made it dip and with no real reason. The nature of loading is that you don't back off on it until the end. That is the stimulus.

To be honest, all one can really do is add capacity in a good range. If you are getting stronger in the core lift in the range of 5x5 - that's progress. It might not be linear to weight gain but there is nothing you can really do about. You might find you just explode later on or maybe in a few months as you continue to add capacity. Also, most of the gains will show up in the deloading period generally so that might also be a factor and another reason why you don't drop the volume in any way during a loading phase as you've just messed with the stimulus some and sent it in the wrong direction. This is also why it's best not to skip workouts unless there's a really good reason because it screws up the protocol.

Another thing is diet. You can get stronger under calorie restriction but it's very hard to grow. You are already very lean so your diet is already at the margin. It's not like some 18% BF guy holding his diet constant where the body will take the excess calories going to maintaining fat and use some of them to build some muscle - net result being the newly build muscle will now increase caloric requirements and lower excess fat. Unfortunately, you have low fat so your diet is at the margin and concievably there is no excess to allow for building muscle. You can either count calories or just eat more or whatever but you are lean because you don't consume an excess and you can't grow if you don't have an excess - sort of a catch 22 situation. If you've only seen strength gains so far I'd venture this might be an issue. It might not be but if you were eating an excess over 5 weeks you'd either have more muscle or be fatter by now and neither seem to be the case.

 

[harhar]

Im currently doing the single factor (n00b ) one and Im having trouble setting the top 5rep weights for the Wed (light day) workout. How much %of my 5RM should the weights be? Should I add weights on this day everyweek just like I do on Mon and Fri?

I've also added 2 sets of non failure bodyweight pull ups after Mon and Fri workout.

 

[Gobus]

I know I'm not supposed to change anything, but if I wanted develop my deadlift more, could I change around the squat and DL next cycle?

So it would be:

Monday
DL
Bench
Row

Wed
Light DL
Squat
Pull-up
Mil Press

Fri
DL
Bench
Row

How about it? Too much back work?