Youth vs Gear

[Underworld]

Hypothetically, who do you think would make better gains, a 17-18 year old on no gear (natural test and GH flying around), or a 30 year old on 500mg test/wk?

Assume they both have diet and training in check, and are both 5'8" 160lbs.

And before you ask, no i'm neither of these 2 people, I just sometimes think our younger members need to be reminded of the power of youth over AAS.

 

[thx9000]

Well, I think 500mg of test EW will make you grow more at 30yo than you will at 17 naturally. Gear simply does that for you. But....

The average 17yo has a lot going for him that the average 30yo doesn't. Better cortisol levels, better natural estrogen management, better thyroid function, better insulin management, better IGF-1 responce to GH and greater sensitivity/response to same.

So, I guess what I'm saying is the 17yo get's much more "bang for his buck" off his natural test levels than does the 30yo even supposing that the two have same/similar T levels. Taking 500mg Test EW simply tilts the odds too strongly in one direction, it can offset a lot. The reality is the 17yo will get a hell of a lot off of 500mg EW...a lot more than the 30yo will get. That's the unfortunate reality and the compelling justification that I think motivates most of these kids.

I say "unfortunate," because cycling really DOES come at a price. I'm not going to begin proselytizing in yet another thread, but there is a trade-off one makes when they decide to start going this route and 17yo is awefully young to make such a "commitment".

 

[karachi183]

Hypothetically, who do you think would make better gains, a 17-18 year old on no gear (natural test and GH flying around), or a 30 year old on 500mg test/wk?

Assume they both have diet and training in check, and are both 5'8" 160lbs.

And before you ask, no i'm neither of these 2 people, I just sometimes think our younger members need to be reminded of the power of youth over AAS.

The 17yo with proper diet,rest,workout schedule!

 

[Underworld]

The 17yo with proper diet,rest,workout schedule!

Yeah I would have said the 17yo too, and if he's not using gear, he's guranteed to keep all his gains (no false pretences of size from water retention).

He also won't risk stunting his growth or messing up his natural test production and regretting it later.

 

[AlwaysOn]

I would say the 17 year old has the advantage here.

 

[wayneboard1]

Well, I think 500mg of test EW will make you grow more at 30yo than you will at 17 naturally. Gear simply does that for you. But....

The average 17yo has a lot going for him that the average 30yo doesn't. Better cortisol levels, better natural estrogen management, better thyroid function, better insulin management, better IGF-1 responce to GH and greater sensitivity/response to same.

So, I guess what I'm saying is the 17yo get's much more "bang for his buck" off his natural test levels than does the 30yo even supposing that the two have same/similar T levels. Taking 500mg Test EW simply tilts the odds too strongly in one direction, it can offset a lot. The reality is the 17yo will get a hell of a lot off of 500mg EW...a lot more than the 30yo will get. That's the unfortunate reality and the compelling justification that I think motivates most of these kids.

I say "unfortunate," because cycling really DOES come at a price. I'm not going to begin proselytizing in yet another thread, but there is a trade-off one makes when they decide to start going this route and 17yo is awefully young to make such a "commitment".

While I know of certain "prices" to be paid, what do you see as the price you pay? Are you referring to abuse or 1 cycle or what exactly. From what I learned, the price comes with abuse, improper PCT, etc, but IF done properly, certain cycles can be beneficial. Thanks for elaborating.

 

[thx9000]

While I know of certain "prices" to be paid, what do you see as the price you pay? Are you referring to abuse or 1 cycle or what exactly. From what I learned, the price comes with abuse, improper PCT, etc, but IF done properly, certain cycles can be beneficial. Thanks for elaborating.

I'm not sure I have the energy, or commitment, for this argument at this point. I'll keep this as generic as possible in an effort to head-off the attacks.

When you begin to cycle whether it be at 17, 24, 30, or 40, you begin a new way of "training". No, this doesn't apply to everyone, but let's face it, it does apply to most. That "most" being those that are using gear as a means to some cosmetic goal. Not an indictment of people who make that choice, I was one. However...

After that choice is made it's all too easy to repeat the process over and over. It's difficult to dispute that gear does impact lipid profiles and (usually) blood pressure and insulin sensitivity. Again, I'm avoiding mentioning all the other hypothetical problems. Any amount of time you spend in a "compromised state" has a negative impact on your short term and possibly long term health. For many people there may never been a noticable impact for others there is. As time-off shrinks and time-on grows longer, or we age and time-off simply doesn't do as much repair as it once did, the chances of the negatives adding up starts to grow.

 

[will b huge]

Well, I think 500mg of test EW will make you grow more at 30yo than you will at 17 naturally. Gear simply does that for you. But....

The average 17yo has a lot going for him that the average 30yo doesn't. Better cortisol levels, better natural estrogen management, better thyroid function, better insulin management, better IGF-1 responce to GH and greater sensitivity/response to same.

So, I guess what I'm saying is the 17yo get's much more "bang for his buck" off his natural test levels than does the 30yo even supposing that the two have same/similar T levels. Taking 500mg Test EW simply tilts the odds too strongly in one direction, it can offset a lot. The reality is the 17yo will get a hell of a lot off of 500mg EW...a lot more than the 30yo will get. That's the unfortunate reality and the compelling justification that I think motivates most of these kids.

I say "unfortunate," because cycling really DOES come at a price. I'm not going to begin proselytizing in yet another thread, but there is a trade-off one makes when they decide to start going this route and 17yo is awefully young to make such a "commitment".

THAT WOULD BE INCREDIBLE if a 17 year old actually knew how to diet and train properly....I would love to see what would be possible between the ages of 17 and 20 with a great diet and hard training.......most definitely kill the test, *(unless he was stacking with Growth Hormone, Clen, DBOL, Winny, T3 too)

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[borg4902]

I unfortunitally am exposed to a person like this daily^. He is 6'3''and has been working out since he was 13 or 14. He was a natural 210 with ripped abbs. He just started a cycle of deca 400/wk and eq 200/wk with 25 or 30 mg dbol ed. He is looking massive. He is like a young Jay Cutler dosent drink is all obout the diet and training. Just a really driven hard working kid. It will be interesting to see how he turns out after 10 weeks or so.

 

[wayneboard1]

I'm not sure I have the energy, or commitment, for this argument at this point. I'll keep this as generic as possible in an effort to head-off the attacks.

When you begin to cycle whether it be at 17, 24, 30, or 40, you begin a new way of "training". No, this doesn't apply to everyone, but let's face it, it does apply to most. That "most" being those that are using gear as a means to some cosmetic goal. Not an indictment of people who make that choice, I was one. However...

After that choice is made it's all too easy to repeat the process over and over. It's difficult to dispute that gear does impact lipid profiles and (usually) blood pressure and insulin sensitivity. Again, I'm avoiding mentioning all the other hypothetical problems. Any amount of time you spend in a "compromised state" has a negative impact on your short term and possibly long term health. For many people there may never been a noticable impact for others there is. As time-off shrinks and time-on grows longer, or we age and time-off simply doesn't do as much repair as it once did, the chances of the negatives adding up starts to grow.

First off thanks for your reply. I wasn't trying to start an argument, simply asking a question. I am on my first cycle, and am still learning a ton on here every time I log on. What you said makes perfect sense. Thanks again.

 

[Guvna]

The 17yo with proper diet,rest,workout schedule!

BS. the 30 year old will gain more. Period.

 

[will b huge]

I unfortunitally am exposed to a person like this daily^. He is 6'3''and has been working out since he was 13 or 14. He was a natural 210 with ripped abbs. He just started a cycle of deca 400/wk and eq 200/wk with 25 or 30 mg dbol ed. He is looking massive. He is like a young Jay Cutler dosent drink is all obout the diet and training. Just a really driven hard working kid. It will be interesting to see how he turns out after 10 weeks or so.

He will be a monster, but hopefully he is educated and does a proper PCT or he will lose all gains and have bitch tits with little raisins for balls......

I know you will help him and keep your diet up.....I know its tough and are probably getting sick of chewing that plain chicken, but keep it up.....it will be worth it.....

 

[Guvna]

THAT WOULD BE INCREDIBLE if a 17 year old actually knew how to diet and train properly....I would love to see what would be possible between the ages of 17 and 20 with a great diet and hard training.......most definitely kill the test, *(unless he was stacking with Growth Hormone, Clen, DBOL, Winny, T3 too)

[]

You should have met me then. I started working out at 14. A few months after I started, I weighed 135 pounds, and could bench 135 (at about 8%). at 16 I deadlifted 455 pounds and could bench 315. At 17, I was 225 @ 12% ( Also gained about 4-5 inches in height during that time, so that was not all muscle and fat). I got a horrible sickness in the middle of my junior year that left me at 195. it took me until the end of that summer (9 months) to gain it back. At the end of high school, I was 215 @ 10%, and could bench 365 and dead over 500. you should have seen me. I was the only fag to carry around a big ass lunch box. I took the whole lunch break to eat. and I had protein shakes between two of my classes. Those were the days.

By the way, I trained two more years naturally and only gained about 3 more pounds TOTAL (it fucking sucked) before hitting the gear. I was and am sure I reached my genetic limit.

 

[buttbeater]

When i was 17 and focused on training i did not grow half as much as when i started to use juice. i think some people are kidding themselves.

 

[will b huge]

You should have met me then. I started working out at 14. A few months after I started, I weighed 135 pounds, and could bench 135 (at about 8%). at 16 I deadlifted 455 pounds and could bench 315. At 17, I was 225 @ 12% ( Also gained about 4-5 inches in height during that time, so that was not all muscle and fat). I got a horrible sickness in the middle of my junior year that left me at 195. it took me until the end of that summer (9 months) to gain it back. At the end of high school, I was 215 @ 10%, and could bench 365 and dead over 500. you should have seen me. I was the only fag to carry around a big ass lunch box. I took the whole lunch break to eat. and I had protein shakes between two of my classes. Those were the days.

By the way, I trained two more years naturally and only gained about 3 more pounds TOTAL (it fucking sucked) before hitting the gear. I was and am sure I reached my genetic limit.

Bro, I did say it would be incredible and thats incredibly rare right there....Congrats on your discipline and not caring what other people thought about your lunchbox and crap.......(I wish I was as smart as you 15 years ago---LOL)

 

[will b huge]

When i was 17 and focused on training i did not grow half as much as when i started to use juice. i think some people are kidding themselves.

The natural testosterone levels elevated in a 17 year old are really quite high buttbeater and if we had some studies in front of us, I think you would be quite surprised at the results......And a more important fact, is we are trying to let the 15-20 year olds that are out there reading this thread know that they need to wait and not here threads like the one above that you posted.....cmon now......Lets be smart here.......Look at the title of this thread......(All I know is that if my kids were reading this post, I would damn sure want them to be reading my posts in this thread and not listening to that one----that is all)

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[Guvna]

Bro, I did say it would be incredible and thats incredibly rare right there....Congrats on your discipline and not caring what other people thought about your lunchbox and crap.......(I wish I was as smart as you 15 years ago---LOL)

thanks bro. I sometimes hate the stuff I missed out on, but I had a far better foundation to build on than anyone I knew, and that gave me a great natural base that I would always have with me. It gave me an incredible headstart both physically, emotionally, and socially-and that was invaluable AND worth the things I missed.

 

[50cent]

You should have met me then. I started working out at 14. A few months after I started, I weighed 135 pounds, and could bench 135 (at about 8%). at 16 I deadlifted 455 pounds and could bench 315. At 17, I was 225 @ 12% ( Also gained about 4-5 inches in height during that time, so that was not all muscle and fat). I got a horrible sickness in the middle of my junior year that left me at 195. it took me until the end of that summer (9 months) to gain it back. At the end of high school, I was 215 @ 10%, and could bench 365 and dead over 500. you should have seen me. I was the only fag to carry around a big ass lunch box. I took the whole lunch break to eat. and I had protein shakes between two of my classes. Those were the days.

By the way, I trained two more years naturally and only gained about 3 more pounds TOTAL (it fucking sucked) before hitting the gear. I was and am sure I reached my genetic limit.

My son is 16 and has until November b4 basketball starts. he trained last yr with a personal trainer and now he's hooked on lifting. But his diet sucks! He's 5'11" 160 and not strong (tho he thinks he is) looking to get him 10 lbs of muscle and STRONG by november 15th. could you send me a routine, diet and supplements that you did or would suggest? i suggest 3days, back and chest, shoulders and arms then legs/calfs. hes doing 6days and its overtraining, but what do i know, 5'10" 195 10% bodyfat 49 yrs old. it could have a big impact on him if u could help out. thank for your time.

 

[Ulter]

The 17 year old doesn't stand a chance. Unless you're talking about two people who have never trained. Which you didn't mention in the title post.
A 30 yr old is going to have much more mature muscle to build on and the test will explode him. The 17 yr old will lose whatever he gains in a short time and doesn't have the mass to start with. It's not age so much as it is where you're starting from mass wise.

 

[Dial_tone]

The 30 year old - 500mg/week is way more than the teen could hope to produce naturally.

 

[RADAR]

The 17 year old doesn't stand a chance. Unless you're talking about two people who have never trained. Which you didn't mention in the title post.
A 30 yr old is going to have much more mature muscle to build on and the test will explode him. The 17 yr old will lose whatever he gains in a short time and doesn't have the mass to start with. It's not age so much as it is where you're starting from mass wise.

YAY! Someone beat me to it!


I have kicked many a 17-20 old in the gym more than i can count!
RADAR