Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below hey guys, i need to know if im alone on this, ive been bbing a better part of my life started at 15-im now 38,ive never ran a true bulk/strength phase. i believe im missing something when im not lifting on my "normal" traing days, i lift 5 days a wk, 1-2 bpts per session, the least ive ever done, does anybody share this i might undertrain problem? if you did or do, id like to hear what you did to overcome this fear. im fairly strong, 200 lbs (up from 160 last year,this time)i need to hear someones "i too used to train that way"story it would be a great help to me cause i want to try the 5x5 every one is talking about soon ! thanks for any input guys
your take on this please
- Thread starter MARK67
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nelmsjer
New member
mark67, if you properly try it for 2 "rounds", there are 3 possibilities:
1) It doesn't work for you. You have now "wasted" about 3-4 months, but it hasn't been wasted at all. You will know a great deal more about your body after those 4 months than you do now. And, you'll have the mental security of knowing that you aren't missing out on the wonderful program you've heard about. Summary: poor results, slight waste of time, great lessons learned.
2) It only gives you the same results as your current program. Now you have a choice, based on which one you enjoy better, regarding what program you would like to do for a certain period. Summary: equal results, brings variety
3) It works better than your current program. You have new gains, new life to your workouts, better progress, etc.
3 out of 3 options provide you with some positive feedback, whether it is knowledge, variety, or actual gains. You're 38, you're young, you have 38 or more years of lifting ahead of you...I would "waste" 4 months in a heartbeat and try it.
1) It doesn't work for you. You have now "wasted" about 3-4 months, but it hasn't been wasted at all. You will know a great deal more about your body after those 4 months than you do now. And, you'll have the mental security of knowing that you aren't missing out on the wonderful program you've heard about. Summary: poor results, slight waste of time, great lessons learned.
2) It only gives you the same results as your current program. Now you have a choice, based on which one you enjoy better, regarding what program you would like to do for a certain period. Summary: equal results, brings variety
3) It works better than your current program. You have new gains, new life to your workouts, better progress, etc.
3 out of 3 options provide you with some positive feedback, whether it is knowledge, variety, or actual gains. You're 38, you're young, you have 38 or more years of lifting ahead of you...I would "waste" 4 months in a heartbeat and try it.
I'd venture most of the people on this board were doing flavor of the day bodybuilding splits until not too long ago. And until about a 12-18 months ago this board was almost exclusively BBing splits. Since a lot of guys seem to be running 2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on training cycles that don't look much like those anymore and you don't see really any posts at all about people going back or being less than enthusiastic and happy - that would be a data point I'd consider.
I visit a few boards and to be honest, I don't think I've seen any lifter yet go back to his or her old BBing split after running this style program. As a matter of fact, I think people tend to get a bit too wedded to the specific template but that's just having fun and enthusiasm. The goal is really to learn and understand how to program and plan over time, manipulate variables, and systemtically progress by focusing on what matters most - not so much doing any cookie cutter program.
I visit a few boards and to be honest, I don't think I've seen any lifter yet go back to his or her old BBing split after running this style program. As a matter of fact, I think people tend to get a bit too wedded to the specific template but that's just having fun and enthusiasm. The goal is really to learn and understand how to program and plan over time, manipulate variables, and systemtically progress by focusing on what matters most - not so much doing any cookie cutter program.
anotherbutters
New member
Like nelmsjer said, give it a whirl for a couple of months. When I first started lifting weights, I always thought the once per week per bodypart idea was a bit inefficient, then I found programs like the 5x5 that made a bit more sense. I'm more than happy giving up a split routine.
madcow, I know there are lots of DF programs out there, as there are lots of ways of loading up, but the only reasonably well documented SF program I know of is the SF 5x5. It seems to me that if you want to use the big compound movements with a certain frequency and not load up, there are only so many configurations that are worth considering. It's difficult not to get stuck in a template when it's the only one you know! Can you point me in the direction of any others?
madcow, I know there are lots of DF programs out there, as there are lots of ways of loading up, but the only reasonably well documented SF program I know of is the SF 5x5. It seems to me that if you want to use the big compound movements with a certain frequency and not load up, there are only so many configurations that are worth considering. It's difficult not to get stuck in a template when it's the only one you know! Can you point me in the direction of any others?
Protobuilder
New member
anotherbutters -- some nice workouts here by J.V. Askem: http://www.marunde-muscle.com/fitness/askem_athletic_weight_training.html
I had that same irrational fear also when I finally decided to change. The old adage of 'if it's not broke don't fix it' was overcome when I was convinced I had found something that just worked better. Glad I did.
anotherbutters
New member
Thanks pb. Some good info on that site.
from the old school, i bought all arnolds books,mega sets, you all know the story, even though i cut my frequency down from 6 days per and 3xs per week, i just felt lacking when im not lifting(that if im not training, i must be losing)overtraining syndrom maybe? thanks guys alot ,tommorow im going to start the single 5x5 and get some new growth ,and get out of the 70s!
anotherbutters
New member
I don't have time to work out more than three times a week - I spend the rest of the time eating 
Good luck!
Good luck!
MARK67 said:
Just to clarify - the whole 5x5 thing for the most part was from the 1970s. At that point steroids were into bodybuilding in a big way and from that decade through the 2000s they've gone from high volume free weights to all machine programs (exception being the bench but no one was rowing, pulling from the floor, or squatting for a long period in the 80s through early 1990s), to low frequency 1x per week HIT style workouts. Now some of that stuff in there wouldn't grow an 18 year old novice yet BBers have looked linearly better and better. The only other linear factor is drug dosage and anciliaries - and that's basically allowed BBing to do some rediculously stupid crap and still achieve hypertrophy.
During this whole period, the training and bulking of athletes and those with performance criteria other than just big muscles and low bodyfat didn't change too much although obviously we know a good bit more about periodization and the causes behind fatigue, the physiology of failure etc...
What you are basically doing is returning to what has always worked well accross a broad spectrum of natural lifters. You are doing more general work to grow the body as a whole and a lot less specificity (i.e. incline cable concentration curls or super slow side laterals to help refine what is already there). My advice is to add specificity when there is a real and current issue, not in a massive waste of resources shotgun all the time to make sure that nothing grows out of proportion (which the body manages quite well all on its own to a surprisingly large degree).
djeclipse
New member
Hi Mark, welcome to the board. Here is my take on the whole 5x5 ting.
I was doing the 1 body part per week routine up until this week when I started my single factor 5x5. I had been reading about the success people here have been having with the program since I found this board a few month's ago. It seems just about everyone makes gains with is and no one is going back to their old ways.
My reason for switching was a little different. I was working out 4 times a week and making it all 4 times/week was beginning to be a PIA for me. The 5x5 for me was a way to reduce the amount of time I had to go to the gym and at the same time maxaise my gains.
After the first day I felt I didn't work my body enough ( was used to doing a full day on chest/tries), my chest felt like it needed more etc. But I can tell you that after completing my first week of the 5x5 I really feel it everywhere. My chest, bies, tries, legs, shoulders, back... It is all sore (not overly sore though) and it really feels good. And because of it I am really excited about going to the gym and progressing with this program.
Like nelmsjer said, give it a serious try, you'll know in a few month's if the program is for you.
I was doing the 1 body part per week routine up until this week when I started my single factor 5x5. I had been reading about the success people here have been having with the program since I found this board a few month's ago. It seems just about everyone makes gains with is and no one is going back to their old ways.
My reason for switching was a little different. I was working out 4 times a week and making it all 4 times/week was beginning to be a PIA for me. The 5x5 for me was a way to reduce the amount of time I had to go to the gym and at the same time maxaise my gains.
After the first day I felt I didn't work my body enough ( was used to doing a full day on chest/tries), my chest felt like it needed more etc. But I can tell you that after completing my first week of the 5x5 I really feel it everywhere. My chest, bies, tries, legs, shoulders, back... It is all sore (not overly sore though) and it really feels good. And because of it I am really excited about going to the gym and progressing with this program.
Like nelmsjer said, give it a serious try, you'll know in a few month's if the program is for you.
BiggT
New member
Madcow's post covers it all, I just want to post to add reinforcement to what he said about growing the body as a whole and not throwing eevrything and the kitchen sink in a program to 'cover all the bases'.
I strongly believe in dealing with problems when and only WHEN they arise. Generally, when trained equally and as a whole unit, the body will naturally grow in a symmetrical fashion. When you look at people with imbalances, it is usually juiced gym rats who come to the gym for a marathon of machine work, curls, and pressdowns. They are the guys with 19 inch arms and 50 inch chests, but have 20 inch thighs and a 14 inch neck and 8 inch forearms. To put it nicely, they look like ridiculous assholes who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. If you look across the board at legit athletes who use weight training as a main form of preparation for their sport (sprinters, throwers, football, baseball, basketball, wrestling) you see evenly developed, functional looking, symmetrical muscle. These athletes don't "try for a certain look", they simply train their body as a whole with functional movements and the way they look is a side effect of their training.
Mark67,
You're probably looking at 5x5-type setups on paper and the lack of happy horseshit exercises and filler probably has you concerned that you'll leave the gym feeling like you didn't get a workout in, but just try it, the first couple weeks you'll love the off-days, you're appetite will be through the roof, and you'll sleep like a baby as soon as your head hits the pillow at night. It is a lot more work than it looks like on paper, and I think you'll realize that a typical bodybuilding split isn't really much of a workout compared to how you'll feel training like this.
I strongly believe in dealing with problems when and only WHEN they arise. Generally, when trained equally and as a whole unit, the body will naturally grow in a symmetrical fashion. When you look at people with imbalances, it is usually juiced gym rats who come to the gym for a marathon of machine work, curls, and pressdowns. They are the guys with 19 inch arms and 50 inch chests, but have 20 inch thighs and a 14 inch neck and 8 inch forearms. To put it nicely, they look like ridiculous assholes who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. If you look across the board at legit athletes who use weight training as a main form of preparation for their sport (sprinters, throwers, football, baseball, basketball, wrestling) you see evenly developed, functional looking, symmetrical muscle. These athletes don't "try for a certain look", they simply train their body as a whole with functional movements and the way they look is a side effect of their training.
Mark67,
You're probably looking at 5x5-type setups on paper and the lack of happy horseshit exercises and filler probably has you concerned that you'll leave the gym feeling like you didn't get a workout in, but just try it, the first couple weeks you'll love the off-days, you're appetite will be through the roof, and you'll sleep like a baby as soon as your head hits the pillow at night. It is a lot more work than it looks like on paper, and I think you'll realize that a typical bodybuilding split isn't really much of a workout compared to how you'll feel training like this.
I quess I've done every split ever thought of.
I started with full body 3 times a week (which is due for a comeback), then upper body/lower body 4 wo's a week, then push/leg&abs/pull twice over 10 days, and finally the single set (with warm up). Now I'm trying this 32 sec a set idea.
Each one caused a positive change as the body was forced to adapt.
In each case I was always looking to avoid overtraining.
I believe the 5X5 has merit and is a good change. I'm not sure how long you can stay on it as your goals change. However ... you are bound to get stronger so that's a plus.
I started with full body 3 times a week (which is due for a comeback), then upper body/lower body 4 wo's a week, then push/leg&abs/pull twice over 10 days, and finally the single set (with warm up). Now I'm trying this 32 sec a set idea.
Each one caused a positive change as the body was forced to adapt.
In each case I was always looking to avoid overtraining.
I believe the 5X5 has merit and is a good change. I'm not sure how long you can stay on it as your goals change. However ... you are bound to get stronger so that's a plus.
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