WTF!? I'm confused big time!

[Smokescreen]

Jenetic...so is using Nolvadex while on GH going to lower my IGF-1 output really bad? Also, is GH use really good to use while cutting? If its going to add some bloat and gyno?

 

[wls8687]

pwnage

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Jenetic again.

lol

haha

 

[thx9000]

Jenetic...so is using Nolvadex while on GH going to lower my IGF-1 output really bad? Also, is GH use really good to use while cutting? If its going to add some bloat and gyno?

Carth,

It isn't really IGF-1 "output" but anyhow...

The goal shouldn't be to force GH, and subsequently IGF-1, as "high as possible" in an effort to just loose fat and then to combat sides with things like diurects and anti-e's. It's not exactly all that exciting as a fat loss agent, at least no in my experience. It did make some big changes, over several months, when I went from low-normal IGF-1 levels to high-normal by taking 2iu ED. After that the benefits tappered off and increasing the dosage did nothing to "help me".

GH, when properly dosed, shouldn't cause the sides you are seeing. You are taking too much. Sure, it does have a lipotropic effect but that comes at the cost of insulin resistance, water retension, possibly gyno, and not to mention wasted $'s. It's not like 4iu ED will offer 2x the fat loss as 2iu ED, but 4iu ED might offer more than 2x the sides. At appropriate dosages GH will offer, at best, modest body recomposition at least for someone of your age. You won't go from modest benefit to radical changes by doubling the dosage.

Fat loss needs to be, first and foremost, nutritionally based. Then activity based. Finally helping agents like GH, T3, ECA can offer the modest improvements to take you the final several hunderd feet (not even the last mile).

 

[Paulo]

Not saying anything at all? Do you need someone to hold your hand?

Look Alice, why don't you give an explanation of the hormonal regulation of breast development? What's wrong? Cat got your tongue or is your daily dosage of machismo from looking at yourself in the mirror too high?

Alright, it's time you realize that you are a fucking ingrate. You have no practical education and/or experience whatsoever, therefore you have absolutely no right to even begin commenting on the ontogeny, physiology and factors that that influence gynecomastia.

The hormones that affect growth and differentiation of breast tissue are estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, GH and IGF-1. It is through their respective receptors where estrogen promotes duct growth the progesterone supports aveolar development. Neither estrogen nor progesterone by themselves can sustain breast development without anterior pituitary hormones, GH and IGF-1. Furthermore, GH may result in an increase of IGF-1 mRNA at the mammary gland which locally promotes tissue growth. Last but not least is prolactin which has a similar relationship like estrogen/progesterone to GH/IGF-1 where it stimulates epithelial cell proliferation and enhances lobulo alveolar differentiation only in the presence of estrogen and progesterone respectively.

I'm sure you are looking for a dictionary by now. Don't panic as I will do my best to summarize my previous paragraph in a less intellectual fashion so that you can better comprehend the key points and apply it in a practical manner.

Therefore, the most common scenarios for the development of gynecomastia in men may be a result of supraphsyiological levels of estrogen/progesterone, physiological levels of estrogen/progesterone in the presence of decreased androgens or physiological levels of estrogen, progesterone and androgens in the presence of elevated GH/IGF-1.

Is that starting to make sense? Perhaps you need an example such as the usage of Nolvadex in the treatment of gynecomastia. Hopefully, by now you can recognize how estrogen and IGF-1 are related in regards to gynecomastia as well as the effects of Nolvadex on estrogen and IGF-1. I think a relatively valid conclusion that Nolvadex inhibits the stimulation of ductal growth from estrogen and concurrently inhibits the role of IGF-1 in stromal/ductal hyperplasia.

In conclusion, all you need in order to diagnose the origin versus playing the guessing game is to have blood work performed. You do have common sense don't you?

Happy Holidays,

Jenetic

I'm still deciding which is more humorous, finally getting to see Jenetic serve up a long overdue bitchslap, or; seeing carth qouting said bitchslap asking for further clarification.

 

[DIVISION]

I already saw that before. But his comments are not saying anything at all. Elevated IGF-1 levels. Ok...and???? What about it???

You just got PWNED by Jenetic 'The Don' Anabolico.......

Any further stupid questions will result in deathhhhhhhh!








DIV